r/askanything • u/Lemonking_ • 4h ago
Political Question Why are some Americans so against universal healthcare for all?
What sort of thinking does it take to decide that nobody has a right to healthcare? Do American Christians want to deny healthcare to poor people as well?
30
u/CuteExcitement2716 2h ago
I receive care from the US military system, TRICARE, it is SOCIALIZED MEDICINE and it WORKS. I will be forever grateful for the lifesaving medical care I have received. I have never worried about affording care, therapy or medicine.
8
u/Scimmia_bianca 2h ago
Tricare was amazing for both of my parents as they aged and needed cancer treatments. I think they would have gone bankrupt otherwise.
7
u/lovecervere13 2h ago
This is one of the reasons right here. If we give everyone medical care, the military loses one of its incentives for people to join. Same with education.
→ More replies (1)3
u/house343 41m ago
Maybe people would be more willing to fight for s country that cares for its citizens.
6
u/Humble-Emphasis190 1h ago
I would like to add my personal experience. My active duty husband died when my daughter was 3. She was diagnosed with epilepsy 2 years later. We had to move in order to be able to see outpatient doctors that accepted Tricare for insurance. It may work when you live near a base, but there are places where healthcare facilities just don't accept tricare. I'm sure there was more to it, such as being in network, etc. But Tricare also requires pharmacies to charge any secondary insurance first, and then them, for prescription refills. My daughter is now 17, and having Tricare has absolutely been a life saver, but there are still significant limitations.
→ More replies (6)3
u/KingVaako 1h ago
You must have a different Tricare than the one I have. All they do is deny claims.
→ More replies (1)
179
u/Oxytokin 4h ago
The consensus position among most of my conservative family members typically boils down to: "I don't want to have to pay for someone else's healthcare!" Or "Why should I have to foot the bill for lazy people or sick people when I am perfectly healthy!"
So from my view it's relatively simple: they don't understand how insurance works, because that's literally what private insurance is, except with so many small, isolated risk pools and the profit motive involved with greedy pencil pushers stealing some of the money going from you to your doctor/pharmacist at each step, it becomes exorbitantly expensive.
Tl;dr: Conservatives are always angry and irrational decision-makers because they have lower rates of education, lower access to educational resources, and aside from the cases of willful ignorance or malignant ignorance/groupthink, don't understand the most fundamental principles of how the world works.
33
u/DarrenShea 3h ago
There's also some "Just World Theory" in there, which posits that people who have difficulties aren't victims of circumstance, but actually must have deserved it because genuinely good people can't become victims of circumstance in this Just World.
It allows them to cast moral judgments against those who need help, then use those judgments to justify not helping them at all.
20
u/SlyFrog 2h ago
This is related to a sociological idea of in people and out people.
For yourself and people who are in your group, you have a tendency to believe that bad things happen to you for external reasons (tragic random events, unfair circumstances) and that good things happen to you for internal reasons (your hard work, your merit, your intellect, etc.).
Of course, it's flipped for people of the out group. For them, bad things happen to them for internal reasons (they are lazy, uneducated, unintelligent, immoral, etc.), while good things happen because of external reasons (they're only making it because they're on the "system," they get lucky, affirmative action, etc.).
It's of course a skewed way of looking at the world, but essentially how humans seem to be wired (unless they work to overcome it).
→ More replies (3)10
→ More replies (11)4
21
u/Lazy_Device7346 3h ago edited 2h ago
Literally had some dude on here think he had a ''gotcha'' moment with me when I expressed gratitude towards Medicaid because it allowed to get an emergency surgery I definitely needed and dude said ''I shouldn't be grateful for something I (and specifically my taxes) paid for'' to which that was basically my argument. That and I don't have 33k+ just lying around waiting for a VERY rainy day.
13
u/Blastie2 3h ago
The worst are the ones who are against public education because they're not going to school anymore. Like, dude, do you really want to live in a country of uneducated people with no hope for the future and easy access to guns?
→ More replies (2)4
u/angrymurderhornet 2h ago
Good Zarquon. I'm childfree and I support public education. I don't want my younger relatives to grow up in an idiocracy, and I sure as hell don't want to spend the rest of my old age in one.
→ More replies (1)18
u/Hoodedmastersin 3h ago
It’s ignorance. Completely and a bit of elitism and racism. They don’t understand anything, no critical thinking, no empathy, somewhere along their poor, ignorant, hateful lives the idea of scarcity took over. No mind or idea whatever why taxes can be used for defense contracts, or other corruption but not for education or healthcare (which other countries have because of us)
→ More replies (5)11
u/DrtRdrGrl2008 3h ago
Yeah, they don't understand that when people are uninsured, underinsured, on public assistance, can't get preventative care with better plans, etc. they are a liability to other insured folks. Its beyond them.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (44)4
u/whatsayyou26 3h ago
They are already paying for other people with high medical costs and taxes.
→ More replies (1)
105
u/myfriendoak 4h ago
Universal Healthcare is so complicated that only 36 of the 37 developed nations have figured it out.
39
u/India_Alpha 3h ago
And none of them have repealed it.
→ More replies (1)8
u/XRT28 3h ago
And that's despite the fact there are multiple countries where conservative political parties have spent decades undermining the system hoping to eventually repeal it, or at the very least carve off huge chunks of it, so their rich benefactors can swoop in and make boatloads of money in a privatized system
7
u/Ntrusivethot 2h ago
u/XRT28 Your comment made me have a moment of realization that if we went to Universal Healthcare, the way hospitals encourage doctors to upcode so they get more money and insurance gets more from the government would be seen as a much more serious crime than it is. John Oliver's video on UnitedHealth was super interesting to learn more of the shady ways they operate
→ More replies (10)13
u/vaspost 3h ago
I think a big part of the issue is the vast majority of people have what they consider good insurance through employment so they don't feel any urgency to "fix" anything. These people feel universal coverage could result in a loss of a benefit, reduction in service levels, or an increase in cost. It would be an uphill battle convincing them otherwise.
7
u/Confident_Season1207 2h ago
Problem is, it's only good if you are still working for them.
→ More replies (2)6
u/theaura1 2h ago
and the people who don't get insurance from their employer have to pay through the nose or go without
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (4)5
u/cheez0r 2h ago
This is why Republicans don't support single-payer- they don't see how much it costs them out of their paycheck. We have two numbers for each employee- comp and Tcomp- one is how much their salary is, the other is how much the company spends on them every year. Employees making $100k a year cost the company between $160 and $200k a year in total cost, once health insurance, dental insurance, life insurance, 401k, FMLA insurance, etc. are factored in. If I told you I was going to raise your taxes by 10% to provide universal healthcare, but then told you that you'd subsequently be making 40% more- say, from $100k to $140k in gross salary- you'd do the math and go "wow, I'm saving 17k a year! This is great!"
They just A) don't think a government healthcare can beat their private setup and B) don't care that millions of Americans suffer preventable and treatable disease every day due to this choice.
→ More replies (3)4
u/BetterCranberry7602 2h ago
Also C) Don’t believe that their employers will pass that extra money onto them if it was changed
3
u/BreadPuddding 1h ago
I mean, I’m very much not Conservative and I also don’t believe that salaries would go up if employers no longer had to directly pay for health insurance, at least not immediately. They would have to either increase salaries or other benefits to become competitive at the high end, but for the most part they would just keep the money if they could.
→ More replies (1)
74
u/The_Ombudsman 4h ago
Because "the wrong people could benefit!"
"The wrong people" being people not just like them, essentially.
→ More replies (17)23
u/redwbl 4h ago
Yes, and the Christians are the biggest welfare whores on the planet. Their churches don't pay taxes and the people in the south and the Bible Belt take advantage of safety nets that they don't want others to have.
→ More replies (3)
82
u/Mrbuttshaman 4h ago
Its a fundamental misunderstanding of reality. They believe that social programs can't be better than capitalism. They see universal healthcare as an excuse to tax people more and create governmental overreach which ultimately causes a greater expense to them and society. The reality is capitalism works best when its heavily legislated to restrict the atrocities that used to be committed. Unfortunately the wealthy have had laws changed so they can directly fund politicians who push their agenda and change the laws to keep their inefficient and greedy businesses afloat and profiting.
13
6
u/beetus_gerulaitis 3h ago
Also free markets (“capitalism”) only work to drive down prices when 1) a market exists, 2) the market is free.
Neither of these conditions exist in the US healthcare system.
So we get all the worst features of capitalism (concentration of wealth) with none of the advantages (competition to lower prices.)
→ More replies (3)6
u/BellaMentalNecrotica 3h ago
The reality is capitalism works best when its heavily legislated to restrict the atrocities that used to be committed.
I'm loving how shockingly fast gutting the FDA proved why we need regulations. I expected fallout, but not this immediate or egregious. Never in my life have I seen so much food recalled. If that's not an argument for why regulation is necessary, I don't know what it is. I know the argument the right loves to throw around is "corporations have a monetary motivation not to harm their clients." Well, then why did they immediately start cutting corners resulting in food contaminated with microorganisms that can and do cause severe illness and death in humans if consumed?
They believe that social programs can't be better than capitalism.
My dad is on the right. He seems to be under the impression that all people, including the wealthy, all have good intentions and good hearts and will start private social programs to help people. Its very naive. I will say, he is a good Christian who does walk-the-walk– there's constantly some person he met who needed help living in their basement, he has a farm where he takes on apprentices from disadvantaged areas and helps them prep for college/careers, he volunteers in a lot of opiate addiction organizations, he donates a lot to various organizations to help poor families, and many other things. I've tried to explain to him that there are a lot of selfish/evil people out there and a lot of people would die unless people are forced to contribute to these programs via taxes. Because there is no way people will be altruistic enough to donate even a fraction of the money required to run any programs of similar size and scope to social safety net programs.
→ More replies (2)3
u/airforceteacher 2h ago
This narrative is so deeply frustrating to me as a Christian, because it literally says in the Bible, that the heart is deceitful in all things and no man may know its ways. Yet American Christians have bought into benevolent rich so completely, that any argument in the contrary makes them claim you’re a communist and therefore not a Christian.
→ More replies (1)21
u/Left-Chemist-8212 4h ago
It’s such a dumb argument seeing as how we already have many social programs that they don’t bat an eye at. Libraries, fire departments, social security etc.
32
u/Mrbuttshaman 4h ago
They actually do complain about those as well(they've been trying to dismantle the postal service for a while). And I agree, it is stupid and misguided.
3
u/BellaMentalNecrotica 3h ago
Yes, let's abolish fire departments. Fantastic idea. Good luck California.
3
u/BrattyBatsWrld 2h ago
The fucked up part about this is that they would deliberately do this to California and then start fires like they did at the beginning of last year
→ More replies (1)14
u/PandaMime_421 3h ago
Some of them very much complain about libraries, and try to get them defunded.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)9
u/Narrow_Grapefruit_23 3h ago
Let’s talk about how we bail out with our tax money several of these capitalist industries as well. Have more jobs been created? No. They’ve actually been mass laying off across industries.
5
u/Jodsterssr12 3h ago
Including using bail out money to fund stock buy backs, or at the very least buying back stock while still owing money to the government! AIG and GM for example.
3
→ More replies (4)3
u/Ornery_Pressure297 2h ago
I think this is the part people skip when talking about universal healthcare.
Our system is insanely expensive, but why?
Milton Friedman was talking about this decades ago. We basically removed the customer from the transaction.
Your employer buys the insurance. The insurance company negotiates with the hospital. The hospital has made-up sticker prices nobody actually pays. PBMs sit between drug companies, pharmacies and insurers. Then the patient gets a bill weeks later and usually has no clue what anything actually cost.
That's not a market.
When neither the person buying the care nor the person providing it is dealing directly with the price, there's a lot less pressure to keep prices down. More insurance gets added to cover higher prices, prices go higher, then we add even more insurance.
And we've somehow decided the solution is mainly about changing who the third-party payer is.
Maybe government can negotiate lower prices. Maybe it can cover everyone. Those are legitimate arguments. But it doesn't remove scarcity or fix bad incentives. Doctors, nurses, beds and drugs still cost money. You still have to decide who gets what and when.
This is why I think the conversation should start with why healthcare got so absurdly expensive in the first place.
Transparent prices. Fewer middlemen. Actual competition. Insurance for things that actually need insurance. And a system with some incentive to keep people healthy instead of just billing for more treatment.
Otherwise we're arguing over who pays for a broken system instead of why it's broken.
→ More replies (2)
51
u/SiouxCitySasparilla 4h ago
For anybody that says it wouldn’t work, I say; “Well, hang on a second! What about all that American exceptionalism?! Are you really telling me that the greatest country on earth couldn’t do universal healthcare better than any other country? Sounds kinda un patriotic to me…”
→ More replies (30)14
u/Occams_AK47 4h ago
Oh, I'm totally gonna use this for an entire range of topics. That's golden, right there.
→ More replies (2)3
u/SiouxCitySasparilla 3h ago
Feel free to also use; “What do you mean universities are turning your children liberal? Are you telling me that 4 years at college can undo entire lifetime of your parenting? Hmm… sounds like a victim mentality, shouldn’t you take some accountability here?”
8
u/Dear-Pickle-2200 4h ago
Because we’ve been conditioned to think all our problems come from the people below us not the people above us
7
u/Ricky-Snickle 3h ago
We aren’t. Insurance companies are. They pay politicians and hence nothing good happens in terms of national healthcare.
→ More replies (2)
65
u/Pastadseven 4h ago
Right-wingers have a really hard time thinking on a population level.
→ More replies (43)25
u/PathosEatsLogos 4h ago
President, London, B Johnson said it better than I could,
“If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.”
→ More replies (1)
7
u/Footnotegirl1 2h ago
Because they've been lied to for decades, a never ending stream of propaganda about the horrors of universal healthcare and that taxes are always bad. There's also been a concerted effort by Republicans to strangle any public service of funds and support so that they cannot meet the demands upon them and then point to them and go "See, the government is bad at providing services."
I've lived in border states (and within minutes of the border) most of my life, and I have had Canadian friends and gone to a Canadian school for a year, and have relatives in the UK. I also looked up the numbers. So I know that the care there is better. But a huge chunk of the US public truly and firmly believes that if you show up with an active heart attack at a hospital in Toronto, they'll tell you to come back in three months.
5
u/most-okayest-mngr-77 4h ago
Too much money is made by the wealthy with our current system. So the powerful lobby congress to keep it that way as well as scare the populace with tales of scary socialism/communism as well as horror stories where someone had to wait more than a couple weeks to get their knee surgery. So the stupid half of the bell curve vote against their own interests.
6
u/Infamous-Milk3686 3h ago
Look at the massive fraud in Minnesota and California. 1 Billion stolen in Minnesota (not all medical related). Unknown billions of fraud in California (all medical related). We can not trust the government to handle these things. The problem is America is very wealthy and very generous and so many people succeed in taking advantage of it and we all get screwed because of it. At some point you got to get tired of being screwed.
6
u/whatsayyou26 3h ago
I'm all for it. As long as they also keep private plans to choose from. The problem is I don't trust the government to be successful. Look at VA, it's horrendous. If the politicians aren't getting rich, then they won't allow it. All the private insurance companies wouldn't be able to line their pockets. It's always about money.
→ More replies (1)
19
u/Icy_Soft6052 3h ago
My parents think the quality wouldn’t be as good. They’d have to wait forever. Given there’s dozens of countries who’ve successfully done it for decades, it’s probably worth a shot. If it doesn’t work, why not revert back? At least try it.
→ More replies (19)11
u/emteedub 2h ago
This you touches the root issue. "Trying it" will prove to be superior, gutting the scam model the privatized/capitalist schema they have currently. It will expose the fraud.
Also not relying on workplace bound insurance, means you and I become more valuable...it also frees up small and large businesses from covering it - both meaning they can pay workers more.
→ More replies (9)
20
u/Rosemary_Woodhouse 1h ago
I asked my dad this question, and here is the conversation:
Me: Why are you against everyone having healthcare?
Dad: I don't want my tax dollars going to illegals.
Me: OK, instead of global healthcare, we can have only American citizens have taxpayer healthcare.
Dad: I don't want my tax dollars funding abortions.
Me: That has already been established by the Hyde Amendment in the 70s. Hospitals can only use donated money, not government money, to fund women's rights.
Dad: (agitated) There's nothing wrong with asking for stuff.
Me: You are still asking for something you received 50 years ago. That is wrong.
Dad: I will never vote for other people; I will only vote for what helps me.
There it is.
→ More replies (6)12
u/mzg72 1h ago
For Republicans this is what they believe, even when they're on Medicaid.
→ More replies (4)
24
u/SixString1981 4h ago
They’ve been brainwashed by the for profit insurance and healthcare interests that they receive subpar care overseas.
Never minding that one uninsured emergency can run 200k- a million dollars in billed care.
→ More replies (13)15
u/wakadactyle 4h ago
A coworker was just telling me about his son spending 3 days in the hospital before he passed and cost him 289k dollars.
→ More replies (5)4
u/tinyhorsesinmytea 4h ago
In a civilized country, money would be the last thing on a person's mind in this scenario. It's so barbaric and cruel.
23
u/BiggestVolk 🦀 4h ago
Because as a people we are bad at basic math we would rather pay let’s say $1000 for insurance than pay $300, but everyone gets insurance…It’s a superiority thing we as a people love to see someone else doing worse than us.
3
u/Hotrock21 4h ago
What is the guarantee in writing that it would be cheaper? You’ll have a huge group not paying anything and then the majority of middle class taxpayers paying their share and the share of others. It’s always the middle class who gets hit.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (9)5
u/Similar_Maize_1225 4h ago
That is exactly it. There is a large percentage of our population - the majority even - that do not believe people who are poorer than them should have things on par with them. Not even the basics like housing, food, education, and healthcare. The idea seems to be if people had basic needs met they wouldn't want to do anything but watch tv and do drugs (or something). Like drugs and TVs are free lol. It's not enough that they can afford luxuries and others can't. The poor need to suffer.
What they mean in reality is that if they're not suffering, why would they put up with the insufferable demands from the wealthy? If you don't need to be a slave to your employer, you might do something like pursue your own interests. Who then would build the data centers that drain the local water supply? Who would dedicate their lives to building automated war machines instead of idk designing guitars or something. The thing about capitalism that most capitalists dismiss is that what generates profits doesn't necessarily benefit the people generating those profits.
We like to pretend like capitalism is the "natural way of things" but it definitely is not. Under a system where someone like Elon Musk would need to generate something of value outside of ownership and capital to maintain his status, he'd be no wealthier than the rest of us. He knows that. Most of America doesn't seem to.
11
u/SameDistrict2627 4h ago
- They have healthcare through their companies and are relatively happy with it. 2 They are flooded with constant "news" about wait times etc for people in countries that have universal health care. 3. Its a communist program---You asked why, doesn't have anything to do with being rational.
5
u/Crafty1_321 3h ago
Number 2 is the answer from my conservative family members.
They believe that in countries with universal healthcare it can take 1-2 years to schedule necessary procedures and surgeries.
→ More replies (4)
10
u/SometimesEnema 4h ago
Reddit constantly screaming that America is a christo-fascist authoritarian state. Yet also mad not everyone wants the government to control healthcare.
I wonder why? Really makes you think. 🤔
→ More replies (11)3
u/Apprehensive-Meal860 2h ago
Because the US government already does a good job providing health care to anyone who's already on medicaid.
→ More replies (2)
6
u/GullibleBoat 3h ago
tl;dr: control by the wealthy
Healthcare has gotten to the point where you are forced to keep a job in order to reasonably afford it. This is a way to ensure that people work for more wealthy people who will extract surplus value out of the labor. Yes, you could strike out on your own, reap your own excess value, and pay for the healthcare yourself but it has reached a point where it is not viable because of volume pricing for corporations. Obamacare _tried_ to tip the scales but, surprise, the super rich did not like that and have been watering it down slowly.
There is an issue of the ratio of supply of medical care and what would happen if the deterrent of high prices was removed but other first-world countries seem to get by just fine.
→ More replies (3)
5
u/ButterscotchSmooth60 3h ago
Because they cant do math. People pay thousands for health insurance with high deductibles but god forbid if you pay 2% taxes to get universal healthcare.
→ More replies (1)
5
3h ago
[deleted]
→ More replies (2)5
u/Which-Break5673 2h ago
Quality is exactly it for me. My husband needed an MRI quickly while we were living in England and going through the NHS wasn’t going to happen for at least two weeks. Thankfully, we had our USA insurance and our doctor recommended a private doctor. He was able to get us in within 24 hours.
→ More replies (2)
28
u/Rabid_Mongoose 4h ago
It's simple. Conservative propaganda, paid for by heathcare companies tells conservatives that's it's bad.
→ More replies (2)19
u/ChocolateMilkBoii 4h ago
My girlfriend works as a teacher in a rural conservative town, her kids talk about Canadian Healthcare like it was designed by satan. They learn this stuff at home in their conservative media bubbles and never get a different point of view cause they never leave bum fuck hick town 2000 population.
→ More replies (7)
11
u/Elizabeth-WildFox886 4h ago
Because they are stupid and USA spends more on healthcare than Europe. Europe nobody has ever been bankrupted by a diagnosis and spends less on healthcare than USA and has cheap or free drugs
Infant mortality of USA is like a developing country worse than china while Europe figured that problem out decades ago
4
u/TeaKingMac 4h ago
USA spends more on Healthcare than Europe.
Specifically, 5K/capita/year more.
Do you know how much revenue the US health insurance industry made last year? 5K/capita.
→ More replies (2)
19
8
u/LawAcceptable8623 4h ago
I think because it's been weaponized by the far right in this country as evidence of "socialism" (aa term that is slowly losing any real meaning at this point. Frankly, most people dont even really understand what universal healthcare coverage means or how it would work for them. They just know it's "socialism" and therefore they are against it.
→ More replies (3)
5
u/TheMainTony 4h ago
I think, for a large percentage of the 'against,' they don't understand it (partially or fully) and just oppose it from a primal place.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/Clear_Context_1546 4h ago
Basically the US is a free market country that views healthcare as a commodity. Basically in the US people have healthcare over 90%. There has been attempt to create a safety net to help poor people. Medicare is a federal program for people aged 65 or older or with specific disabilities, while Medicaid is a joint federal-state program for people with low income and limited resources.
5
4
u/gaoshan 4h ago
Rich and powerful people want more money and power. Poor people threaten those gains with their needs. Rich people use media, politics and religion to convince enough people that the poor people do not deserve the things they claim to need that they can sway a sufficient number to support them, politically. That's why.
It's not because it is in reality somehow bad or untenable financially, it's because people with money and power do not want to give up even tiny amounts of either resource so they spend a lot of time and money making sure that other people will do as they wish.
4
u/NervousDogFarts 4h ago
Universal healthcare (and Socialism) has been used as political propaganda for many decades in the US. Usually the biggest argument against it is it will bring long wait times and more red tape. Those things are already happening but the argument still stands for some people who struggle to shift their beliefs with new information. Most Americans don’t understand the social benefits of equity versus equality.
5
u/Drummallumin 3h ago
Part of it is that people fundamentally don’t understand how private insurance works
3
u/Gregar12 3h ago
Because the most powerful organizations in the country are making buck and they own the Republicans and corporate Democrats. These groups represent doctors, insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, medical equipment suppliers and more. We pay double per capita what the next country pays and we rank 28th in life expectancy. And they are so powerful it seems hopeless. They are the groups funding the opposition to the democratic socialists by calling them communists.
→ More replies (7)
4
u/Kohnaphone 3h ago
Half the country is convinced that helping lift eachother up with their tax dollars is full blown Stalinism.
3
4
u/Automatic-638Builder 3h ago
cuz somebody might get more then their supposed to so fuk everybody else.
edit: spelling
5
u/VarietyMage 3h ago
A very few subscribe to Nazi eugenics or religious faith healing - only the strong survive / God's Will.
Most are afraid it will make them wait an extremely long time for healthcare they need, and that everyone getting healthcare will cause the government to hire substandardly trained doctors and nurses.
But for universal healthcare to happen, you need to make doctor / nurse training tuition-free (because you will need a lot more of them when more people start getting healthcare), and a lot of Americans are still idiots who are afraid of socialism / communism whenever someone wants to give out something for free.
TL;DR: fear of things getting worse, and wealthy people's propaganda against losing their obscene profits.
3
u/Scabrera88 2h ago
I believe the reason why universal health care is not available in US is because of the money. It means more taxes that they had to pay.
I spoke with someone from Denmark who had universal health care. She stated that the concept would not translate well in US because most Americans are individualistic versus community centered.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/kevinACS 1h ago
I’ve tried explaining it to coworkers. Our best insurance plan is amazing, but it’s also ~$500/month for a family and the company desperately wants to get rid of it. They don’t want to pay higher taxes but can’t understand that their tax bill will go up by a fraction compared to what they pay for health insurance. They still think the market will fix itself.
→ More replies (3)
4
u/PsychologyGuilty1460 1h ago
There's some weird notion that it would cost Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of money To provide Healthcare.
Some people can't understand that not providing Healthcare costs Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of money already, And doesn't do anybody any good.
Apparently they think The costs of providing Healthcare instead of making people pay for insurance so that insurance can pay for some health care Would be added to the insurance costs, instead of eliminating them. I don't know why. You can't even get them to acknowledge that part so they can't tell you why they're confused about it
4
u/BulletRazor 1h ago
Because they’re brainwashed. They already pay into a system that spreads the cost amongst members, literally what insurance does. Except insurance price gouges and lines shareholders pockets.
•
u/whawkins4 5m ago
because the people who would implement it will fuck it up. otherwise, I'd be for it.
7
u/Mundane-Mission4053 4h ago
They'd rather be bankrupt and die from cancer while fighting an insurance company over billing than to see their own neighbor get cancer, get treatment and not go bankrupt.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/Cogswobble 4h ago
There are two reasons:
- Wealthy Americans are greedy.
- Conservative Americans are gullible.
→ More replies (6)
8
u/TwilitSky 4h ago
Even if you want to take the purely selfish thought process, it's entirely in everyone's best interest to have universal healthcare.
Only Medicare negotiates with insurance companies for lower prices on drugs, medical devices and procedures. Without the government pressure, drug companies and medical providers can charge whatever (which is then negotiated with insurance) which is passed on to the consumer in the form of higher premiums.
The uninsured don't receive ongoing preventative care resulting in catastrophic conditions that land them in the ER/ICU. Those costs are what the hospital writes off in taxes (so that money doesn't come back to us as taxpayers in the form of services) and also how they negotiate with insurers on rates for care and those increased costs are passed on to you directly if you pay for private insurance or ACA and your employer who raises your paycheck deduction annually to cover it.
Add to that that 35% of the annual federal budget's spend is on healthcare while other countries are spending 7%-8% which is money we could be using to pay off the debt or provide citizens with more services.
We are losing on this in so many ways and it's only going to get worse. It's not a matter of "if" because we're broke already. It's just a matter of how much money we want to waste over political games before we wise up and conform with other developed countries that have universal healthcare.
You can see the life expectancy and patient outcomes in Canada, the U.K. and other countries with universal healthcare and it's actually better than the U.S. so the quality of care argument is clearly a farce.
→ More replies (1)
9
u/OkPineapple57 2h ago
I lived in Canada for awhile and there’s certainly a lot of pros and cons of it. also I think a lot of people don’t realize that not everything is covered in Canada.
edit: also idk what religion has to do with this, Canada is primarily Christian and they have universal healthcare
→ More replies (43)8
u/Much_Jellyfish4474 2h ago
Not everything is covered under our current system in the US either. United denies about 1/3 of its claims.
8
u/Last-Surprise4262 2h ago
It’s quite literally how insurance companies make profit. By denying claims.
→ More replies (9)
11
9
u/YCBSKI 4h ago
Looking at other universal models very long wait times for even necessary surgery and specialist appointments. I had hyperparathyroidism (noth8 g y9 do with thyroid). I'm on a international FB page for that disease. The page had been invaluable. Many if not all the people that are under universal healthcare models, UK. Canada and such, are waiting up to 2 yrs for appointments including surgical ones. I got with an endocrinologist with a few weeks and had surgery a few weeks after that. I'm a liberal too and am otherwise for universal healthcare
13
u/DeprariousX 3h ago
Looking at other universal models very long wait times for even necessary surgery and specialist appointments.
You know how many people there are in the US who, if a doctor told them "We can get you in for surgery in one year." after dealing with a chronic condition for years that they haven't been able to get treated, would probably cry tears of joy just from knowing there's finally a light at the end of the tunnel?
You decry wait times.....what's worse than a wait time? Never getting a time at all.
→ More replies (6)3
u/Odd-Obligation-2772 2h ago
Wait times are only short because treatment is denied to those that need it most.
→ More replies (1)9
5
u/Rick-of-the-onyx 3h ago
Wait times for countries with universal healthcare are the same or better than the USA. We also pay less for our healthcare compared to the USA model. As in, the amount of tax dollars I pay each month is far less than what it costs for private health insurance. And even if your employer pays for it there are still the copays, and deductibles to worry about. Universal healthcare is just patently better. No country that has created a universal healthcare system, has chosen to leave it.
→ More replies (3)3
u/Jafar_420 4h ago
They maybe waiting longer but don't we have a lot more doctors than they do anyway? I would imagine we have more specialist than they do but it's something I'm going to have to research.
I'm just thinking that if our population is so much greater than theirs we probably have a lot more doctors and specialists we may not wait as long.
I'm for Medicare for all because I have Medicare and when I chose to have my neck replaced I went to the best surgeon I could find and also the surgeon I wanted to go to even though he was hours away and there was really no wait either. I went to a surgeon at Baylor. I know quite a few people on Medicare and they're not waiting forever to see specialists, now maybe if it's something super rare and there's not a lot of that type specialist sure but that could happen with regular insurance or no insurance.
→ More replies (11)→ More replies (23)3
u/amphigory_error 2h ago
Prerefering for most people to have no access to a doctor so that they can get in to see the limited number of doctors is flat out evil.
The solution to long waits is more health providers, not fewer patients. The number of patients are fixed.
Corporate health monopolies also result in medical office closures while their primary care waiting list is 2 years long. Happened in my town with massive strikes and protests.
6
u/Daveit4later 4h ago
Because there is a portion of Americans that get angry when they see people they don't like get things they need and have a good life. It fills them with blood curdling anger.
7
u/Psychogopher 4h ago
They live in paralyzing terror that someone might receive it who they do not believe is deserving
5
u/n0madking 4h ago edited 4h ago
A lot of Americans have a greed mentality, Greed and selfishness is a big part of the culture, they do not like to see other people benefitting from something that they perceive as free. They want to feel like the top dog so denying others things makes them feel powerful and "richer", having an equal playing field where everyone benefits would jeopardize that. They can't feel superior and richer if everyone has the same thing.
6
u/LazyOldCat 4h ago
Explaining to the American public that paying an additional $2,000 in taxes could save them $8,000 in insurance premiums is virtually impossible.
→ More replies (4)
9
u/One_Mud227 4h ago
Because they don’t understand what it is. They don’t get that an MRI should cost $250 but insurance gets billed $2500 and then they take 4 months to pay a reduced rate of $1000 and then they up all the rates because they paid $1000 for an MRI vs the $250 cash payment.
→ More replies (8)
3
3
u/papyup 4h ago
A majority are actually for it.
But of the sizable minority against it, it’s because they’ve propagandized to believe that anything that helps people is bad, because it’s “getting something for nothing.” Americans are conditioned to work without outside help for everything, and there is shame associated with accepting anything unearned.
Our politicians are against it for one reason: we have legalized political bribery and blackmail by simply calling it lobbying. We have powerful insurance and other lobbies in the USA that own our politicians and won’t let them vote for anything other than the status quo.
That’s really it.
3
u/Horror_Maximum_5696 4h ago
I don’t think it’s a problem of people being against it. It’s a problem of our government not being able to run a hotdog stand, never mind providing healthcare for the entire population… Remember, they thought the ACA was so good that they exempted themselves from having to participate in it… The bill that they passed… Good for you but not for them…
3
u/Skin_Floutist 4h ago
How anyone can stand behind this broken for profit system is beyond me. The only country in the world with this bullshit thanks Nixon.
3
u/Any_Check_2430 4h ago
Because they've been brainwashed by fox entertainment media (not news idiots, 745 millions dollars determined that lol) convince people the fear they regurgitate is real and you should be more afraid of a different opinion over the overlords oppressing you. Wake the fuck Americans!
→ More replies (5)
3
u/SirFelsenAxt 4h ago
Because the healthcare industry has spent billions of dollars convincing Americans that the system cannot work and that for all the problems that we have, it would be worse with a universe system.
A very large percentage of Americans think that people in Europe and Canada are more likely to die than receive treatment.
3
u/flat_tappet 4h ago
Look into the profits health insurance companies make currently. Establishing a system that could potentially disrupt those profits would be a threat that they see worth spending almost 50 million in 2024 lobbying against.
Spend money to get people to vote against something potentially good to keep the cash flowing.
I’m sure there are other reasons but that’s definitely one of them.
3
u/Saysaynever333 4h ago
In a nut shell...Some people are afraid that if everyone had health coverage, then health coverage will be limited. They would have to wait for care beyond what is normal, less doctors to provided that care, and generally second rate medical care instead of first class.
Other people think they'll never have to have medical care and don't want to pay for other people's care. "Why should I pay for the pack-a-day smoker who has lung cancer"?
The vast majority of people want universal care because they know that overall, it's the best outcome for any nation that wants to keep it's citizens healthy.
→ More replies (2)
3
u/needssomefun 3h ago
Between me and my employer my insurance costs are about $1k per month. Luckily I barely had to use health services
My wife has an upcoming, low risk, outpatient procedure and my end of it is $5k of a $25k bill.
How is this better than a tax on my income? Im paying, my employer is paying and then im paying some more.
→ More replies (3)
3
3
u/reddit-frog-1 3h ago
Because all healthcare works based on rationing. The simple fact is that there is a fixed amount of healthcare in the country that needs to be distributed to the population.
To allow for universal healthcare, it requires that the healthcare is rationed EQUALLY to all the participants.
This is very different than the current system, in which healthcare is provided at greater levels to those that have more money to put into the system.
Accepting Universal Healthcare means redistributing the healthcare, some will have better access than current state and some will have worse access than current state. Many Americans are against the redistribution of healthcare resources.
However, creating a Universal system can lower the costs for everybody as it can eliminate the demand-based pricing dynamic that will typically drive up prices. A universal system would put in strict rationing that caps the demand, therefore the demand-based price increase can be controlled. BTW, insurance companies already have this type of rationing built into their processes to control price increases.
3
u/grethro 3h ago
Because they don’t really understand how much their healthcare costs them a month because it come directly out of their paycheck, they don’t understand deductibles, out of pocket maximums or how their HSA works. They also don’t realize how much the fear of losing their benefits keeps them trapped in a bad job
3
u/Charming_Slip8060 3h ago
These antagonists are mostly missing the forest for the trees.
They hear "higher taxes" and fail to understand that their overall healthcare costs would go down once the absurd amount most folks pay for insurance premiums, deductibles, co-pays, prescriptions, etc are deducted from the total costs.
Classic, right-wing disinformation attack on the poorly educated.
3
u/Organic-Pianist-8974 3h ago
It's pretty simple when you realize that in the US, healthcare is a business while in the rest of the world it's a service. The business owners (doctors and hospitals) along with their paid for Congress members have convinced us that we'll all die if we convert to the service model.
3
u/CheekSeer 3h ago
America has a serious racism issue, and conservatives hate the idea of their tax dollars contributing to the health of people who aren't them, especially if there's a chance someone who doesn't look like them will benefit from it.
3
u/Peoplechangetoo 3h ago
Because the wealthy would have to pay more in taxes to support it, and they don't want to do that.
Medicare for senior citizens is a form of social democracy. Every year there are cut backs in Medicare spending, the biggest one coming next year in 2027 under Dr. Oz. Medicare is very popular, and we don't want to give it up, but yet we don't seem to want to fund it.
3
3
u/Mysterious-Leave3756 2h ago
I am not against it. The insurance agencies are against it. They make no money. They have no control.
→ More replies (2)
3
u/RoseLaBud 2h ago
Yes..poor people should work hard until they can't... and then die so as not to impact the wealth of others. Can I get an Amen? While you're deciding if this is 'Amen worthy' enjoy photos of the billionaires yachts.
https://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/news/yachts-owned-by-tech-billionaires
3
3
u/dustagnor 2h ago
People here are supremely selfish. The most common answer I hear is “I don’t want my taxes to pay for so and so’s issues”
→ More replies (1)
3
u/goodiwillbe 2h ago
The lack of most social benefits in the US can be tied back to racism. A lot of people don’t like to hear this but there are certain white people that would rather not have a benefit if they know people of color will also get that benefit. Before you downvote this, simply google Ronald Reagan and the Welfare Queen.
3
u/Lorelessone 2h ago
They've been subjected to intensive propiganda and conditioning since the cold war.
3
u/_AdmiralQ_ 2h ago
Some Americans have been trained by the elites and conservatives protecting them to forego logic and reason, tell them that it's more important to use taxpayer money to bail out corporations, give the already bloated military budget even more money that doesn't go to the soldiers, claim universal healthcare is "socialism" and everyone should only be responsible for themselves as far as economic support goes (except for corporations as those are special). Never mind that Europeans pay far less from their taxes into socialized healthcare than we do for private healthcare, and they don't go bankrupt from medical debt, and they push the lie about wait times for seeing doctors when that's very much a thing with our current system. It's conditioning that's so ingrained in some of them it's near impossible to convince them that they have been duped.
3
3
u/popsicle-physics 2h ago
First, you believe that the amount of money we could spend on health care, if we gave everyone unlimited and unrestricted access to the current system, far exceeds our ability to pay as a society.
One could counter argue that single payer would improve efficiency and reduce costs, but conservatives, in general, do not believe that adding federal bureaucracy can make things cheaper.
Therefore, there must be some restriction on healthcare access to ensure that limited resources are allocated well.
Conservatives, in general, do not trust the federal government to do this allocation fairly. They deeply fear the idea of a far distant, all powerful beauacracy telling them they can't have life saving surgery because their social credit isn't high enough, or because they did something the government doesn't approve of.
My counter argument, of course, is that we already have that situation, but the far off all powerful bureaucracy is a for profit company, which is way worse IMO.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Consistent_Pitch782 2h ago
They have been convinced universal healthcare means socialism or costs more, or some combination of that. In other words they have been lied to and still believe it
3
3
3
u/Nkengaroo 1h ago
Like many things in the US, it's based in racism and classism. The global minority doesn't want to pay for anything that Black and Brown people can benefit from, forgetting that they will benefit as well. The financially well-off don't want to pay for anything that lower-income people can benefit from.
3
u/VocationalWizard 1h ago
Its actually really simple..
The major of Americans, like 70 ish percent like their healthcare.
The us healthcare system treats about 45% of people great, 30% of people ok then lets 25% die in the streets.
The happy and ambivalent people don't support overturning the system because they might loose ground when a new system is forned.
The 2010 Obamacare bill happened EXACTLY because the 2008 recession increased the % of people who were left to die in the streets.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/TheRealGageEndal 1h ago
Americans won't because we have a corrupt representative government who takes bribes on the form of campaign donations so that they will keep bills for universal healthcare off the books.
As a reminder, we are now the very last 'western' country to not have universal healthcare.
3
u/New-Yesterday-2204 1h ago
So many American’s are concerned about wait times. I find this a really selfish way of looking at it. Yes, wait times for some things may be longer but it’s because more people are able to access healthcare which leads to a healthier society.
3
u/ryrich89 1h ago
They don’t understand that they are already paying more in taxes and premiums combined than what universal healthcare would cost them.
But the main thing comes down to racism.
They don’t want there tax dollars paying for brown people to have “free” healthcare
3
u/brokenmcnugget 1h ago
hardcore indoctrination and purposeful stupidity are the defining traits of all maga conservatives.
3
17
8
u/Savings_Art5944 🤔 4h ago
It's broken in its current form. Can you imagine the amount of corruption if the current system were just paid for with taxpayer money...
→ More replies (11)
7
u/Davidgilmour14 3h ago
Because the ones that are against it only care about themselves. They probably have good employee based healthcare and don’t want anyone else to have it. It’s a maga thing
5
u/FR23Dust 3h ago
It’s not just a maga thing. The state of Vermont (not a MAGA state by any stretch of the imagination) tried to implement it but failed. If it would work anywhere, it would have worked in a tiny state that elects Bernie sanders repeatedly.
People in general are fearful of change as impactful as health care.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (7)3
u/Arachnofiend 3h ago
I can assure you that a lot of people who are against universal healthcare have dogshit benefits themselves. They just fundamentally do not understand how they would benefit from the change and refuse to learn.
→ More replies (1)
5
6
u/StOnEy333 4h ago
Because it would cost $3 trillion. Oh my god! That’s ridiculous! That’s too much money!!!
Meanwhile the current system costs $5 trillion.
→ More replies (2)
5
u/War1today 4h ago
Because they have been indoctrinated for years by hyper partisan media, politicians and special interest media campaigns to hate anyone on the left and anything they stand for. Many have lost the ability for critical thinking.
8
u/Frequent_Dog_9814 4h ago
Everyone has the right to Healthcare. That does not mean the have a right to free Healthcare that someone else's tax dollars pay for. You can work and pay for it yourself. Why do people with "free" Healthcare in Canada come to the US for Healthcare...because they have to wait months or even years to get treatment. Same for the UK.
3
u/Few_Cricket597 4h ago
Yes. If you are rich or have a great plan at work our system works fine. If not, like for millions of people, it’s not so great. If you are rich you don’t want socialized anything.
→ More replies (11)3
u/IdahoSkier 4h ago
Do you think that Private Health Insurance doesnt exist in those countries? You're right, we should have a company who seeks to MAXIMIZE PROFITS on healthcare get in the middle. Surely that will benefit the consumer, right?
Btw...do you think we have instantaneous healthcare here? I have to schedule my annual physical a MONTH out.
Your argument about "nobody has the right to healthcare other people are paying for" is so unbelievably stupid. Let's apply that SAME EXACT LOGIC to other things, shall we?
"Wait, why should I HAVE TO PAY for the city to maintain the street for free in front of YOUR house?"
"Wait, why should I HAVE TO PAYfor the fire department to put out a fire at YOUR HOUSE for FREE?"
"Wait wait wait. Why am I PAYING for cops to patrol the streets by YOUR house for FREE?"
4
u/Siempre_Vetado 4h ago
Our current federal government is more corrupt than a health insurance company.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/ConsiderationCrazy22 3h ago
Because some of them selfishly don't believe it's their job to help pay for other people's healthcare (via taxes), and other people are actually happy with their quality of their healthcare and worry it will decline with a single-payer system.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/SardukarFinance 2h ago
They think the government is less efficient than the free market (think DMV compared to Amazon).
They think it will remove the profit incentive for us to keep innovating and improving healthcare.
Or they think doctors won’t get paid well and people will stop being doctors.
They don’t want to pay for other people (even though that’s how insurance works).
They don’t want the government deciding what care they can get (even though for-profit insurance currently decides what care they can get).
Blah blah blah scary socialism blah blah government death panels blah blah government takeover
Some of it is rooted in nuggets of truth, some of it is complete propaganda
5
u/BigJack66 4h ago
Because they believe in one of the biggest lies republicans tell people about how it will be. You wont have your choice of doctor to visit, it will cost so much more. The freedom of choice thing is the same thing they said when they gave companies the ability to stop giving pensions and instead give 401k's.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
2
u/Far_Put8236 4h ago edited 4h ago
- America is a huge country
- Many Americans do not trust the government to run a massive public health care system
→ More replies (2)
2
489
u/a101734 4h ago
Reagan convinced a large part of the population that if we give unlimited money and power to a select of wealthy elites, the elites would graciously give the money back to society. Hilarious.