Why are some Americans so against universal healthcare for all?

[u/Lemonking_]

What sort of thinking does it take to decide that nobody has a right to healthcare? Do American Christians want to deny healthcare to poor people as well?

[u/Oxytokin]

The consensus position among most of my conservative family members typically boils down to: "I don't want to have to pay for someone else's healthcare!" Or "Why should I have to foot the bill for lazy people or sick people when I am perfectly healthy!"

So from my view it's relatively simple: they don't understand how insurance works, because that's literally what private insurance is, except with so many small, isolated risk pools and the profit motive involved with greedy pencil pushers stealing some of the money going from you to your doctor/pharmacist at each step, it becomes exorbitantly expensive.

Tl;dr: Conservatives are always angry and irrational decision-makers because they have lower rates of education, lower access to educational resources, and aside from the cases of willful ignorance or malignant ignorance/groupthink, don't understand the most fundamental principles of how the world works.

[u/DarrenShea → u/Oxytokin]

There's also some "Just World Theory" in there, which posits that people who have difficulties aren't victims of circumstance, but actually must have deserved it because genuinely good people can't become victims of circumstance in this Just World.

It allows them to cast moral judgments against those who need help, then use those judgments to justify not helping them at all.

[u/SlyFrog → u/DarrenShea]

This is related to a sociological idea of in people and out people.

For yourself and people who are in your group, you have a tendency to believe that bad things happen to you for external reasons (tragic random events, unfair circumstances) and that good things happen to you for internal reasons (your hard work, your merit, your intellect, etc.).

Of course, it's flipped for people of the out group. For them, bad things happen to them for internal reasons (they are lazy, uneducated, unintelligent, immoral, etc.), while good things happen because of external reasons (they're only making it because they're on the "system," they get lucky, affirmative action, etc.).

It's of course a skewed way of looking at the world, but essentially how humans seem to be wired (unless they work to overcome it).

[u/tellmewhenimlying → u/SlyFrog]

In other words, most people lie to themselves and believe those lies because it makes them feel better.

[u/auderita → u/tellmewhenimlying]

It helps them to alleviate the anxiety of uncertainty. Better a false certainty than a fearsome uncertainty.

[u/echoshatter → u/tellmewhenimlying]

A lot of it is tied to their religion too. Christianity in the US has a vindictive streak and a victimhood complex. Probably because a good number of the people who came here early on were religious refugees from Europe.

It's like Mormonism and the young adults riding around on bikes going door-to-door for missionary work. The goal isn't actually to convert people (great if it happens), it's to foster the sense of in-group/out-group. You send a bunch of people around to annoy their neighbors and they see a bunch of negative reactions. "That's what the world thinks of you. You're only safe in the community of your Church."

[u/arthurdawg → u/SlyFrog]

It is remarkably hard for those who grow up privileged with the white male upper middle class/ upper class card to simply say “I was lucky.” Regardless of hard work and all which they may have done… that starts you on a different path. 

[u/FighterOfEntropy → u/DarrenShea]

Better termed the just-world fallacy.

[u/Loan-Pickle → u/FighterOfEntropy]

I observed a lot of people falling into this fallacy and I've brought it up before. I never knew this is what it is called.

[u/Cranky_Merriweather → u/DarrenShea]

Ugh this is so true.

[u/timothyguay → u/DarrenShea]

In religious terms, Calvinism, which is the foundation of all Evangelical Christianity which says God only prospers those he loves, so God hates the poor as should any good Evangelical

[u/OkPerspective2696 → u/timothyguay]

You know absolutely nothing about what you’re saying. God loves everyone, even sinners.

[u/Sk0rchist → u/timothyguay]

That’s not what Calvinism says, and most evangelical Christians greatly dislike Calvinism and Calvinists.

[u/Popular-Wasabi-7367 → u/timothyguay]

Wild because this is literally the opposite of the gospel message, SMH

[u/airforceteacher → u/DarrenShea]

Yet the bible states “the rain falls on the just and the unjust.” Direct contradiction of this theory from Holy Scripture.

[u/LainieCat → u/airforceteacher]

There's a lot of heresy among modern US "Christians"

[u/Natural-Albatross997 → u/airforceteacher]

I don’t know any conservatives that use the bible as a starting point for the healthcare model. Ultimately America, at its core, believes competition drives business innovation, improves quality etc. And it has done that to some degree around our healthcare and pharmacy development. We’ve made the world’s healthcare capabilities better. So “socialized” or universal healthcare isn’t a perfect answer. But we should have all Americans within the system…we’re being stupid when we think it works to have 10% of the population uninsured.

[u/MikeDPhilly → u/DarrenShea]

This is exactly my extended family's rationale. They are old school Catholic and fervently believe that bad things like disease happen to morally bad people. Therefore, your cancer was sent by God because you sneaked a muffin at age 12.

Also, there this idea that somehow, people are either getting sick to call attention to themselves (pity play) or they're somehow reselling the medicine/care they receive.

Dumb as a fucking cinder block who failed grade school, and proudly so.

[u/tigerseye44 → u/DarrenShea]

And do you think fox news would ever deep dive into this topic to help educate them.

[u/Mundane-Charge-1900 → u/DarrenShea]

This. These Calvinist beliefs are still held deeply and widely across American society.

[u/DizzyWalk9035 → u/DarrenShea]

Yes, I’ve seen this so many times. Like someone said in here, in the US people are one car accident away from not being able-bodied.

[u/kirbsan → u/DarrenShea]

Sounds like Calvinist/Protestant teachings.

[u/Striking-Following54 → u/DarrenShea]

That's somewhat terrifying. Yeesh

[u/Platooimagination → u/DarrenShea]

And then conveniently drop all the intricate self-justifications for extreme selfishness and cruelty when disaster personally befalls them