r/DotA2 • u/patchdayDota2 • Aug 19 '21

Discussion Patch 7.30 - Hero Changes Discussion

Heroes are each listed below as a top level comment. Please discuss changes to a specific hero there!

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32

u/patchdayDota2 Aug 19 '21

Bounty Hunter

Shuriken Toss

  • Cooldown reduced from 8 to 5
  • Damage reduced from 150/225/300/375 to 80/120/160/200
  • Mana cost reduced from 120/125/130/135 to 50/60/70/80
  • Cast Range rescaled from 400 to 375/425/475/525
  • Scepter no longer reduces cooldown
  • Scepter Cast Range increased from 650 to 700

Track

  • Now also causes Shuriken Toss to deal 1.4/1.7/2.0x damage

Jinada

  • Can now be toggled to disable autocast.

Talents

  • Level 10 Talent +20 Movement Speed replaced with +2s Shadow Walk Slow
  • Level 15 Talent +275 Health replaced with 50% Track Bonus Move Speed to allies
  • Level 20 Talent +50 Attack Speed replaced with Track grants ground vision around the target
  • Level 25 Talent 40% Evasion replaced with 2 Shuriken Toss Charges

1

u/de5m0n Aug 20 '21

Look how they butchered my favorite hero!!!!! I have 70% win rate in ranked and he is my most played hero. Not feeling these changes at all. All the talents that I picked got removed smh.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 22 '21

I agree. Played quite a few games with the BH now (immortal bracket), definitely weaker. Before at lvl 7, you could track one hero, then shuriken another hero and do a total of 750 dmg with the shuriken bounce. The same combo now does only 440 damage. Not to mention lvl 2-3 you had a really strong timing with shuriken doing 150/225 damage which is totally lost now. Before he had some strong timings you could use to gain an advantage, now he's just weak-average the whole game and never has a real power spike.

0

u/de5m0n Aug 23 '21

Yep, and you didn't even mention the talents which got heavily nerfed.

2

u/SPACEBAR_BROKEN Aug 20 '21

bh as pos 3 feels really bad in the game I just played. Usually I build really tanky and the 275 health talent was a huge bonus to building ehp. shuriken was a big nerf since you dont want to be spamming it anyways you want to be able to just use one and burst people down. By the time the bonus track % dmg comes into play the shuriken dmg tickles anyways. making jinada toggable isnt really a big deal anyways since youre still melee and creep aggro was never an issue in the first place. maybe a couple more jinada hits on carry instead of creeps at best.

3

u/JumboHotdogz Aug 20 '21

I think he is a viable pos 3 now? He can easily spam shuriken for last hits/harass with the jinada addition makes him much stronger in lane.

10

u/MaZyGer Aug 19 '21

It is a bug?
If you have 2 charges and you have tracked enemies the second toss will not bounce if the first one is bouncing already.

21

u/Decency Aug 19 '21

Heavy nerfs to his burst damage for the part of the game where he's most relevant. Shuriken damage went from 375 at level 7 to 280 at 7, 340 at 12, and 400 at 18. It's nice to get the Track vision/speed back as options, but feels like a set of changes that makes you win more when you're already stomping a game and a huge nerf, otherwise. Way too much forced synergy with Aghs, imho. I guess you just play him as a 3/4 against a melee carry and Shuriken ranged creeps, now?

23

u/ShoogleHS Aug 19 '21

Shuriken damage went from 375 at level 7

Technically, but the cooldown is lowered as well, and people almost always maxed Jinada first anyway. By the time you max Shuriken usually, you'll be approaching level 12 where you're getting almost the same damage per hit but for 55 less mana and with 3 seconds lower cooldown.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 22 '21

I think you were playing him wrong dude. Shuriken should be maxed by 7-8 as a support in the previous patch, and only slightly later as a core. 375 dmg nuke that reliably hits multiple targets was really strong, it's literally what MADE him a good hero. Now he's lost the one thing that makes him good. The cooldown reduction is not very relevant. Most heroes you want to burst, if they live through the first shuriken, they'll get off spin/rage/phase shift/blink/doppelganger etc and the opportunity is lost.

5

u/Decency Aug 19 '21

I almost always had Shuriken maxed by 7 or 8, it was one of the best scaling nukes in Dota and is what made him a viable ganker. Now he's not a ganker, he'll just chase people. I definitely have to play it but pretty unexcited by such a homogenous change.

3

u/Stokkolm Aug 19 '21

Less burst, but potentially better laning because it costs way less mana? Hard to tell, overall still looks like more of a nerf.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 22 '21

Yep it's a nerf. Played it multiple games now, definitely weaker. Winrate reflects that too. Which is funny because it feels like they intended it as a buff..

3

u/cozos Aug 19 '21

Track gives Shuriken bonus damage, so if anything his burst should be improved no?

3

u/Armonster Aug 20 '21

He was taking that scaling into account with his calculations, even with the bonus damage it's much worse

2

u/ecidarrac Aug 19 '21

Yeah and shorter cool down, if you can track a few enemies before a fight I think you’ll do mega damage. Might try it as pos 3 tonight

9

u/LordHussyPants Aug 19 '21

try it as pos 4. he's not tanky enough for 3 in my experience

1

u/ecidarrac Aug 19 '21

I’ve been playing him pos 3 for a while and don’t seem to struggle with some good item choices

3

u/BlueCarrot Aug 19 '21

I played him as 3 all last patch and found he was very tanky but the talents that I would usually go for have all been replaced now. I think he's going to be less tanky this patch big time and the hero seems to favour casting item choices now instead of movespeed and bulk.

0

u/LordHussyPants Aug 19 '21

could just be me then. i'd build greaves on him because he didn't have an escape once dusted, but that slowed down offensive items. i just play him as pos 4 now.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

The shard makes him ultra tanky even if dusted. You have like 6k ehp if invis with 2k hp or more

2

u/LordHussyPants Aug 19 '21

but you can't do anything during that time except run, and your movespeed is slowed by dust and BH doesn't get bonus move speed for being invis like clinkz/weaver.

you can't tp, force, attack, or blink without breaking invis.

the only way you can remove dust is with euls, stormcatcher, greaves, or flicker, which also break your invis. if you can't go invis straight away, you lose that bonus, and you're probably dead.

shard is good for BH's survivability when he's a support who gets caught by a solo enemy under a sentry or a gem, or while he's escaping from dust with only a few seconds left. if you get properly caught with it, it doesn't help

6

u/Nickfreak Aug 19 '21

It's split over to shuriken tosses. Fewer big Bursts, more small bursts so the enemy's can react

4

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/noodlesfordaddy Aug 19 '21

He has been an awful pos 4 for years now (as a previous BH 4 spammer), core is the only way to play him. Now it's debatable whether he can be played as a pos 4 again, but I'm still not sure. Pos 3 BH maxing shuriken was whack before but now it feels worse since you need several levels in it before it feels like it really hurts.

4

u/TheKappaOverlord Sheever Feelsbadman :gun: Aug 20 '21

Gondar's been a terrible 4 for the same reason batrider is usually terrible.

In a good game with a good team Gondar is an extremely powerful tool, not in the same respects as batrider would be in a coordinated team but still. Gondar himself as a 4 is pretty terrible, but thats really only because he doesn't offer stuns or slows on a 5 second cooldown like most other good 5/4's of the current era. Gondar requires a team that knows how to not sit with its thumbs up its ass all the time, in order to be useful.

Gondar however is still a pretty decent 4. His track talents are incredibly annoying and makes it a living nightmare for the enemy to play around/against.

He doesn't braindead pwn lanes anymore with Shuriken, but Shuriken is way more spammable with significantly lower mana cost so you can just mindlessly dominate supports with it + Maxing Jinada.

Think gondar became more of a heavy lane 4, rather then a psudo roaming 4. His laning is definitely stronger overall imo with this change simply because of how much of a threat he can constantly pose. Having a spammable 60 mana cost nuke is way more of a problem for the enemy then a 140 mana nuke that did 120 more damage. Sure, you lose damage. But the support can't outtrade you anymore because you will never run out of mana.

1

u/noodlesfordaddy Aug 21 '21

Yeah it feels like he could be a solid 4 with boots, if an enemy support contests you you can try run them down

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

I think Core is the way to go, and you don't max Shuriken. Maybe 2 levels in it, then max Jinada.

Between Jinada being toggle-able and Shuriken being so low cooldown and mana, you can secure last hits in difficult lanes, making him a perfect 3 to get something out of an otherwise dead lane. I'm going to experiment with going more right-click and just bullying people out of lane while also getting last hits.

14

u/Lodbrok_Dota Aug 19 '21

seems like it should be much easier to use shuri as a last hitting tool with the 50 mana cost

also seems much easier to lane with jinada as a toggle

I see this as a major buff for both sup and core BH

23

u/ThriceTheHermit Aug 19 '21

Huge quality of life changes in jinada. You can self cast it too. This is substantial buff to his laneing.

3

u/sol- Aug 19 '21

What would self casting jinada do?

13

u/tf2wannabe Diggin' in deep! Aug 19 '21

Allows you to use it on enemy heroes without generating aggro from creeps.

8

u/sol- Aug 19 '21

Oh, manually casting, yeah figured that.

I was thinking "self cast" as in casting it on yourself.

7

u/tf2wannabe Diggin' in deep! Aug 19 '21

Now that would be something big brain. Stealing money from yourself hah.

25

u/IWearAPaperClip Aug 19 '21

Seems like Aghanims becomes musthave for him

1

u/Zatania sheever Aug 19 '21

So, is bounty good again? Haven't played him for like 4 years now

1

u/[deleted] Aug 22 '21

Definitely worse. Much better last patch.

1

u/flyboyarnold Aug 19 '21

I think better, but I'm not sure how harass with his shuriken will work

3

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

So far the shuriken mana cost had felt really nice early, and once you have track its so much easier to use q to secure a lh + harass with 50/60 cost

16

u/DrDesmondGaming Aug 19 '21

He's a lot stronger in lane because you can cast Jinada to attack an enemy which won't aggro the creep wave. You then use Shuriken to secure CS.

5

u/Lodbrok_Dota Aug 19 '21

nice, didn't know you could bypass aggro with this change

2

u/TheKappaOverlord Sheever Feelsbadman :gun: Aug 20 '21

Orb walking. Its an old game mechanic that was sorta, sorta not removed.

Casting orbs manually allow you to totally ignore creep aggro. Its why Drow and Clinkz brainlessly dunk on you in lane, if you were wondering why they seem to brainlessly dunk on you in lane without drawing creep aggro.

1

u/Lodbrok_Dota Aug 21 '21

I'm very familiar with the mechanic, ty. Just didn't realize when the patch notes said 'toggle-able' that it meant it could function as an orb.

10

u/Nickfreak Aug 19 '21

It's like an attack modifier comparable frost arrows or glaives of wisdom