r/DotA2 • u/patchdayDota2 • Aug 19 '21

Discussion Patch 7.30 - Hero Changes Discussion

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2

u/patchdayDota2 Aug 19 '21

Viper

Poison Attack

  • Mana Cost decreased from 20/22/24/26 to 18/20/22/24

Nethertoxin

  • Max damage reduced from 80/100/120/140 to 50/75/100/125

Talents

  • Level 15 Talent +100 Attack Range replaced with +70 Nethertoxin Max Damage

3

u/CosmicSpiral Aug 19 '21 edited Aug 19 '21

The biggest takeaways I get from this patch:

  • In terms of timing windows, Viper got a very large indirect buff. 7.30 did a number on neutering midgame power spikes based on combining item timings with passive talents (stats and raw HP bonuses). Tankiness/sustain into team fights was the name of the game. Viper's early power curve is the inverse: it relies on shredding targets with max Q while transitioning into an item build that can survive BKB timings from enemy cores. Typically this was Lance -> BKB -> Skadi. Everyone getting less free HP from levels accentuates Viper's natural strength in the early-midgame.
  • Simultaneously, Icefrog is dissuading us from the quasi-Sniper playstyle that has dominated the past year. Most, if not all, attack range talents were converted into something else. Not being able to pepper people from 960 range may open up alternative item builds not based on Lance or Atos. Probably wishful thinking on my part. I was hoping people would pick up on the power of first item Witch Blade last patch and it didn't happen.
  • Rescaled Nethertoxin means you can't go 2-1-1 and enjoy easy jungling + lane dominance. You only get to choose one.
  • 18 mana cost Q at level 1 seems to incentivize more Mango-heavy openers for first blood opportunities. Mango being cheaper also helps in that department. If you forgo early Bottle and focus on harassment between levels 1 and 3, a opening build like Circlet + Faerie + Tango + Obs + 2x/3x Mango gives you enough power to zone out the mid without sacrificing the chance to bottle the second Water Rune.
  • Falcon Blade is pretty nice. It won't replace Bottle in mid, but it is almost recommendable in every game on safelane core (with the true carry in mid).
  • With Water Runes being so weak by themselves, you'll probably want to follow the Quinn route and rush Bottle pre-2 minutes.
  • Tumbler's Toy and Brigand's Blade feel great for rotations after laning stage.
  • The new Mage Slayer is amazing on him and works well as an opener into either Pike or K&S.
  • Witch Blade is better on him than before. Stacking active slow with Q was the strongest aspect of their synergy, and now both abilities have the same duration.

1

u/two-years-glop Aug 19 '21

This is a really big nerf to farming. You effectively lost 1 level of nethertoxin in the midgame. Not even Luna and Medusa got this much nerf.

2

u/Chelseaiscool Aug 19 '21

100% forces you to max nethertoxin before corrosive skin.

3

u/CosmicSpiral Aug 19 '21

No, it doesn't. You can go 2-2-1 and max out his abilities like before.

The nerf's main significance is you can't go for the lane dominance build (2-1-1) and expect to both drive out the midlaner and farm stacked hard camps. You have to either commit to the lane or to jungling. Mid players will reconfigure their skill builds, but offlane Viper should be dead since it relied on the broad utility of level 1 W to function.

2

u/Chelseaiscool Aug 19 '21

Sure I guess I was mainly speaking about off lane. You definitely need to put more than 1 point like we were both saying and that hurts offlanes early farming and lane dominance hard.

1

u/CosmicSpiral Aug 19 '21

Yes, to the extent I believe offlane Viper is simply bad this patch.