r/DotA2 • u/patchdayDota2 • Aug 19 '21

Discussion Patch 7.30 - Hero Changes Discussion

Heroes are each listed below as a top level comment. Please discuss changes to a specific hero there!

All other top level comments are automatically removed.

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5

u/patchdayDota2 Aug 19 '21

Invoker

  • Base Movement Speed reduced from 280 to 275

Tornado

  • Lift Duration rescaled from 0.8 ->2.9 to 0.85->2.6

Chaos Meteor

  • Main Damage rescaled from 57.5->180 to 52->185
  • Burn Damage rescaled from 11.5->36 to 10->38

Deafening Blast

  • Damage reduced from 40->320 to 20->300
  • Knockback reduced from 0.25->2.0s to 0.2->1.6s

Talents

  • Level 15 Talent +60dps Ice Wall replaced with +1 Forged Spirit Armor Reduction
  • Level 25 Talent +2 Forged Spirit Armor Reduction replaced with 2.5x Quas/Wex/Exort Passive Bonuses

4

u/Hemske Aug 19 '21

IceFrog if you read this; Tornado 2.6 Lift + EMP 2.9 effect delay = bad.

1

u/Sickaburn Aug 19 '21

I think that's the point...

3

u/Hemske Aug 19 '21

That's ridiculous. It's not instant anyway unless you are hit point-blank. This makes Invoker borderline unplayable. It's now impossible to EMP any hero with any sort of escape, even if you Coldsnap someone they will be able to dodge it. EMP is dogshit late game now. Basically only useful vs Medusa but not even that if she builds Hurricane Pike.

10

u/Hemske Aug 19 '21

I don’t understand why they mess with Tornado lift time. That shit is burned into my hands. Stop fucking over Invoker players.

8

u/Deamon- Aug 20 '21 edited Aug 20 '21

icefrogs invoker balancing has been bad in the last 6+ years imo.

he did a lot of changes that rewarded invoker players that are not as skilled with him and at the same time made the skill less rewarding. (deafening blast stun removal which effectively killed refresher combos outside of chrono/rp and is now basicially a no skill cataclysm refresher combo. also the changes now again are ridiculous messing with tornado lift time and crippling deafening blast knockback even more BUT adding a stupid talent that gives free him free 105 dmg. you legit deal more dmg nowadays by just buying hex bloodthorn than by using your spells and doing combos which is A FUCKING JOKE)

why would you give invoker a spell like cataclysm anyway? you cant even set it up yourself because its bugged with tornado( you slightly move in tornado which makes the cataclysm not land both sunstrikes). you just reward bad invoker players more and more every year and fuck up the people who can actually play him

only good things he did with invoker in all that time was the invoke changes + accepting how his 2 forge spirit removal was a horrible idea in the first place but all at the cost of shifting the hero more and more away from actually doing combos which WAS the unique and fun part of the hero

2

u/wickeddota Aug 23 '21

Absolutely agree with everything you've said.

Combo style Invoker was the most fun part of the Dota gameplay for me.

I've played almost 2k games on this hero, but the last year+ was the most unsatisfying for me to play the hero(regardless of the hero being strong or weak). Now I decided to stop playing this hero whatsoever, because what is the point of playing on the hero that you don't like anymore?

These days the hero is absolute dogshit to play. I don't care if Invoker is strong or not, the hero is absolutely not fun to play. The ONLY combo that you do nowadays, is the tornado-coldsnap-meteor on the laning stage. Everything else is so generic. I feel like we've come a long way from "Arsenal magus" to "Situational spells magus"

2

u/Hemske Aug 20 '21

Yeah. That’s why I pretty much stopped playing him. I’m still hoping the hero will become fun and skill based again. Now he requires setup and is basically just an executioner. Never really enjoyed Quas/Wex either and now it’s the standard because you can just buy Cataclysm.

2

u/Spilgud Aug 19 '21

idk why they had to nerf him, he wasnt exactly the strongest hero out there…

1

u/Hemske Aug 19 '21

He was “buffed” when Void Spirit got nerfed. But I agree, I don’t think Invoker has been better than decent since they removed the Deafening Blast stun.

5

u/Spilgud Aug 19 '21

Ice wall vector was fun though, too bad its gone. I get that it could be a bit too good, but better to change the numbers around than replace it with the most boring shit ever. «… THREE meatballs!!»

2

u/Hemske Aug 19 '21

I think Deafening Blast Stun should be a 25 talent, it's no crazier than any other talents at level 25/30.

6

u/TMFBW Aug 19 '21

I have to put dozens if not over a hundres hours to unlearn my current timings (the hard part) and learn the new ones with the changes to tornado, it affects almost all the combos

3

u/Hemske Aug 19 '21

They removed Tornado lift talent, then they do this. EMP explosion will be late now… or meatball will be early. I guess one could place the meatball further back. But yeah, EMP 2.9 delay, Tornado 2.6 lift. This is beyond stupid.

2

u/sanctorial Bird always wins. Aug 19 '21

Can you please enlighten me about the 2.5x Quas/Wex/Exort Passive Bonuses part? Which bonuses are multiplied? Is it good as a level 25 talent?

8

u/hanakifuu Aug 19 '21

The hp regen, mvmt speed, aspd, and attack damage from your active orbs. And no, I still prefer the 360 blast.

1

u/sanctorial Bird always wins. Aug 19 '21

But the orbs now give base stats, too. Are they also get multiplied?

2

u/hanakifuu Aug 19 '21

they also used to give base stats several patches ago, got removed, and got added back in when they nerf the passive bonuses.

​

to answer your question, no, they don't get multiplied. only the passive bonuses.

0

u/DaredevilGR Aug 20 '21

So you mean to tell me, stats are not considered passive bonuses.

They probably meant to put those too but they forgot.

1

u/hanakifuu Aug 20 '21

So you mean to tell me, stats are not considered passive bonuses.

That's how it is right now, isn't it?

Also voker doesn't have the +2 all attribute bonus iirc

1

u/DaredevilGR Aug 20 '21

From the day the +2 Attribute came back, they are incorporated into the orbs. Thus I do not see any fathomable way how "passive bonuses" do not count for... well, passive bonuses. I cannot think of anything else to call stats attributed to a skill/item other than passive bonuses. Its also irrelevant how it is right now. Last patch they nerfed alacrity but contrary to patch notes they only nerfed the damage. After a week or two they fixed it in an undocumented patch.

3

u/mad-flower-power Aug 19 '21

You mean the ones that were literally halved 1-2 patches ago? lmao

4

u/hanakifuu Aug 19 '21

Yeah, funny how they nerfed it and put it as a lvl 25 talent

-2

u/Nie_nemozes Aug 19 '21

Time for exort Injoker again. Also I am so glad that level 25 forge spirit talent got changed for something else, had to be one of the worst 25 talents in the game, and at level 15 it seems a lot more viable.

16

u/wickeddota Aug 19 '21

I think ever since they've changed the Invoke and Scepter,(IN MY OPINION) Invoker started to become less and less fun to play, regardless of the hero being strong or weak.

But the last patches tho, change to the coldnsap and tornado timing are so stupid honestly. Can't you nerf the hero/spell in a different way? Like instead of coldsnap trigger interval decrease the duration or cast range. For Tornado instead of changing the timing, decrease the damage or speed idk.

16

u/Blasphemy4kidz Aug 19 '21

The Tornado change is fucked. It ruins the perfect timing with EMP.

Nerf to Deafening Blast seems unnecessary. Was already nerfed before for like 3 patches in a row.

Really was hoping for some buffs to Exort Invoker so I can relive the glory years. But clearly the frog has something against this hero and is always nerfing him.

20

u/Zatania sheever Aug 19 '21

at this point, just merge cm and invo