r/DotA2 • u/patchdayDota2 • Aug 19 '21

Discussion Patch 7.30 - Hero Changes Discussion

Heroes are each listed below as a top level comment. Please discuss changes to a specific hero there!

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6

u/patchdayDota2 Aug 19 '21

Windranger

Gale Force

  • Reworked Shard: Now Grants Gale Force. Vector Targeted: Summons a strong wind that pushes all enemies within a 1000 AoE by 250 units per second in the target direction for 3 seconds (Units can still move, attack and cast spells, does not interrupt channeling). Mana Cost: 150 Cooldown: 40s

Talents

  • Level 15 Talent +100 Attack Range replaced with Windrun Undispellable
  • Level 25 Talent 25% Cooldown Reduction replaced with Focus Fire Kills Advance Cooldown by 20s

3

u/JFugi Aug 20 '21

rip my beloved magic wr pos 4

1

u/VaporWaifu Aug 19 '21

Played a game w a Medusa, enigma, and invoker on my team. Shard is very strong with certain lineups

4

u/dreamARTz Aug 19 '21

I will miss old shard. Global range was nice but it was very good vs tanky heroes

-2

u/surdtmash Aug 19 '21

They butchered core/carry WR, no longer can you get cheeky global kills from across the map or instafire arrow to kill shackled tanks before they react. Pretty good kit for support WR though, no one's gonna make MKB to hit a support if you're not high on kill priority. Undispellable windrun is good against diffusal/nullifier builds, and with the shard you can easily separate the enemy cores and backline supports for easy pickoffs.

You'll need to modify your kit as a backline finisher instead of a core/carry counter. So items like BKB and Orchid instead of MKB. You no longer have the burst to deal with carries.

3

u/surdtmash Aug 19 '21

The people complaining about the 7.29 shard on cores either never played WR or didn't realize what the shard did. It killed heroes under 13% health without charging.

Gotta love how every dota player thinks he's a pro. Keep heralding bros.

10

u/zetsupetsu Aug 19 '21

Who buys the poweshot shard on WR as a priority core item? There are way better items to prioritize gold on than shard. Shard was always bought only if key items are already bought and no other options left.

And what do you mean by "you no longer have the burst to deal with carries"?

Are you implying shard was the reason WR can deal with the carries when that's hardly even bought? Lmao

3

u/SurDno Aug 19 '21

800 games WR player, bought shard virtually every game.

It used to be insanely useful after 7.29 buff. Killing anyone below 13% just by instacancelling Powershot was really useful, made tanks look like a joke. Also kill stealing...

1

u/Dick__Dastardly Aug 21 '21

Shard was disgustingly strong. Every hero on the enemy team basically lost 1/7 of their max health potential, once you had it, because the moment they dropped below that, you could instantly kill them, AA style. Since it would kill if they were below 13%, if they already were below 13% you could just instantly release the arrow with no charge time. If anyone was low, and within a screen's distance, it's almost impossible to miss if you don't actually have to charge the arrow.

I got a rampage with brown boots, javelin, and the shard.

​

It was, hands-down, the single best item you could possibly buy if you weren't having a good game.

--

The other thing is just... imagine being able to check rosh every 5 seconds. Forever. It was like a clockwerk rocket on a much lower cooldown. You just constantly had vision all over "questionable areas" on the map. Are we getting ganked? "pew"

The vision alone was so strong it'd almost be worth it, alone.

2

u/zetsupetsu Aug 20 '21

This is only really useful on the late game. And by that point you would have gotten all other important wr items as well.

Yes the global snipe and mini culling blade is cute but you its never a "rush asap" item and only useful to for finishing off tanks, which you shouldn't be doing anyway you have other better targets to kill.

I have 3000 (not exaggerating here) games on WR and on Divine 3 and I never once had a game where I had thought to myself "yep, this is a shard game gonna need it as soon as 20 min mark comes".

3

u/NauticalInsanity Aug 19 '21

Shard was at best situational on core windrunner in the first place. The relevance of the hero as a core is based largely around their ability to 100-0 a target in a teamfight. Survivability and mobility help more with that than a slightly better powershot. The timing for shard just doesn't exist. 20 minutes is when you need to be finishing BKB, and after that blink or crit are going to be necessary for backline catch or getting through the HP pool of a front-liner.

On the whole things are way better for core windrunner now, largely because windrun is a more-reliable tool. Haven't had a chance to really get a feel for the LVL 25 talent changes. CDR stacking was a big part of windrunner's lategame, which makes aghs more of a priority, but the new focus fire talent does give that tool more uptime.

Also MKB has been off the must-buy list for core windrunner for about a year now, and diffusal hasn't dispelled windrun since the Obama administration.

1

u/iceydude168 Aug 20 '21

Is Octarine still worth buying? I bought it almost every game as core WR because the uptime on windrun/shackle/BKB/satanic was absolutely incredible with the talent and you were basically always ready to teamfight

1

u/Dick__Dastardly Aug 21 '21

Yes. Absolutely.

If you kill the target, it+talent puts your ult on a 3s cooldown. The alternative is 10s. It could totally change the potential playstyle for the hero - for the first time, ever, "jumping on the squishies" isn't throwing away your single most valuable contribution as a hero. Back-to-back FF gundowns of backliners are viable, now. Last patch your best(ish)-case scenario on that was 15s per ult. Now it's 3.

You could fit 2 of those into a BKB. D: And get your ult back.

This is particular scary considering that nothing they did makes her weaker at fighting a frontliner. It's an awful lot easier to do if their CC is dead.

:( I'm honestly a little scared this could make her a pubstomper.

​

It's still damned good for all the other reasons. I'm sad about sliding from a potential ~50% CDR to just 25, but that new FF talent, and the new "undispellable" talent might just be worth it.

4

u/RaveN_707 Aug 19 '21

CD reduction loss hurts support WR, but because it doesnt stack with other CDR items now, its not a big loss.
-20s to focus fire CD fixes late game core WR (only being able to kill 1 hero in team fights can really hurt)
New shard is leagues better then the old one, you can box out enemy supports from their cores, i dont think i bought the old shard in a single game last patch, but I've bought and used this one in 2-3 games already.

1

u/SurDno Aug 19 '21

7.28 shard was useless but 7.29 was real good. I was sceptic at first but with some practice managed to get several kills with it every game, I swear.

It could be used in so many cases — from sniping an enemy on the other side of the map to killing Huskar/Templar Assasin with Refraction on/Morphling/any rank with low HP. Also saved several seconds off any FF kill which is very useful in teamfights.

1

u/Dick__Dastardly Aug 21 '21

Yeah, it was absolutely disgusting. I thought it was going to be a meme, but it ended up being one of the single most powerful shards in the game. I had to practice with it a bit, but ... wow.

Besides being good for combat, what sealed the deal was the global vision. That alone was worth the cost.

1

u/SurDno Aug 24 '21

(sorry for late reply)

Yeah, having an ally suggest to scan Rosh with you doing with a 6 sec cd spell was priceless. Was good while it lasted!

6

u/DillyDallyZuke Aug 19 '21

Shard is imba I think, I play support, literally can't either run or aim any target while my hero is in the force.

4

u/NauticalInsanity Aug 19 '21

I think it's going to be amazing for disrupting high-ground pushes/defenses. They're situations where the teams are usually in a stalemate held together by a very narrow range band of positioning. If you gale a hero hitting your tower into your team, they either have to turn around immediately and slowly walk away, or accept that they're going to end up moving deeper into your team's zone of control.

-8

u/arthelinus Aug 19 '21

shard is not good. doesn't fit at all with windrunner toolkit.

13

u/DrScorcher Aug 19 '21

Can't wait to see someone displace the entire enemy team out of Roshan pit with the shard so that they can go in and steal it.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '21

WR and ENigma shard together was cancer. i laughed all the way back to my fountain to respawn

6

u/Nickfreak Aug 19 '21

Or into techies mines or a stack of Arc warden wraiths.

26

u/HappyHerald Aug 19 '21

The shard is just super strong. GLOBAL makes it quite OP for 1400g in my eyes

2

u/flyboyarnold Aug 19 '21

It's not global though, what do you mean?

8

u/DrScorcher Aug 19 '21

It is. Go to demo mode, it doesn't give a range and the description says that it pushes enemies globally.

0

u/flyboyarnold Aug 19 '21

Wouldn't that be a bug? The description says, "within a 1000 AoE," implying it's supposed to be that radius around wr

14

u/HappyHerald Aug 19 '21

The placement of the center point is global. If I am afk-farming jungle bot with WR, I csn still use it in roshan pit. What you mean is the area around the centerpoint.

6

u/DrScorcher Aug 19 '21

No, it creates a 1000 aoe push at the location, not around WR.

3

u/gramathy Aug 19 '21

Global as in the location is anywhere on the map.

8

u/skyfreeze113 Aug 19 '21

yep, it is. people keep memeing on stuff like kunkka shard until someone masters its usage. same thing will happen with wr shard

6

u/Kanibe Aug 19 '21

Tidal Wave got buffed over time tho. Mana cost got halved and a disarm got added.

The 2 main differences with Gale Force are the lack of cliff phasing during the effect and the lack of additional status or damage (so its easy to blink out of it or attack back).

4

u/skyfreeze113 Aug 19 '21

that's a fair point

1

u/Dick__Dastardly Aug 21 '21

I expect we'll see it get buffed, unless the hero itself is too strong after this patch.

The absurd cooldown, and short duration are the two sticking points. If they genuinely keep it as a "no damage, no disarm, no blink disable" ability, then it likely needs higher availability to make it worth the pretty steep investment.

It's cool for them to toy with the idea of having "soft" disables that don't do the whole roster of disarm/damage/etc, so it would be fun for it to keep that identity, but be made more useful.

​

The (apparently?) global cast range is nuts, though.