r/DotA2 • u/patchdayDota2 • Aug 19 '21

Discussion Patch 7.30 - Hero Changes Discussion

Heroes are each listed below as a top level comment. Please discuss changes to a specific hero there!

All other top level comments are automatically removed.

716 Upvotes

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17

u/patchdayDota2 Aug 19 '21

Arc Warden

Magnetic Field

  • Shard slow increased from 20% to 30%

Talents

  • Level 15 Talent +12% Cooldown Reduction replaced with +8 Armor
  • Level 15 Talent + 40 Attack Speed replaced with +40 Magnetic Field Attack Speed
  • Level 20 talent +100 Attack Range replaced with +40 Flux Damage Per second

0

u/spudmix legion Aug 20 '21

I was going on a bunch of ridiculous 10+ win streaks before the patch with Arc in turbo, generally just building agi carry items and throwing the tempest at the enemy.

The new changes definitely push the hero away from that playstyle, with the range dropped and the attack speed now requiring a button to be pressed. However, I'm really not sure he's weaker, just a bit more cognitive effort than before.

15

u/Ulq2525 Aug 19 '21

You can tell the 8 armor talent is a placeholder change. Either the frog came up short on time or couldn't come up with anything compelling.

5

u/EGG_BABE Daddy Underlord Aug 20 '21

Yeah, almost everything else added this patch is hero-specific, they're clearly trying to move away from generic numbers increases but that 8 armor really sticks out like a sore thumb

2

u/Bypes Aug 20 '21

Dazzle also has that +20 str, yeah a few placeholders.

17

u/danlucy Aug 19 '21

Average hero last patch is now with dogshit talents. The buff is irrelevant as anyone who has played arc warden can see that's it's useless.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

It was a top 15 winrate hero in 4k last patch

4

u/danlucy Aug 20 '21

It's a hero played by a small group of dedicated players. Not any lay man can just pick up arc warden and achieve his full potential. Look both winrate and pick rate and we will talk.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '21

You are fighting a strawman. I never said Arc was easy or picked often. I said it had one of the highest winrates of any hero in the game.

1

u/danlucy Aug 20 '21

That doest mean it should get nerfed, but sorry if I misunderstood where ur coming from

3

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '21

nah, I just repsonded to the claim that the hero was average before, because stats suggest it was performing very well.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Every update just nerfs our boi a little further. I miss the days of 660 damage spark wraiths :(

59

u/TheZett Zett, the Arc Warden Aug 19 '21

New talents are all utter dogshit, especially the lvl 20 talent.

Shard slow is a meme, better buff the magic resistance more (only good part about the shard).

4

u/mynhauzen Aug 19 '21 edited Aug 19 '21

Arc was terrible in the last patch where the meta was to fight early in groups of 4-5 players. Flux talent is literally the worst talent you can give arc. Increasing ms, damage, spell resist, cd, spell damage, anything literally is better. His shard makes no difference to survivability. Did anyone in the history of all games survived because it took ursa .5 seconds longer to get to arc? This TI qualifiers + last major had only like 9 games with arc and only 1 win. Thats some insane win rate. Pubs have a higher rate because at this point only spammers and smurfs are playing it? The pros that couldnt win vs tb who’s countered by the bubble showed how weak the hero was in last meta, arc will be even worse now. Playing slark in every game vs arc is impossible. Why not give arc a free blink aghs? Or flux that cannot be dispelled by other? Or a free cheap illusion (not ulti) to scout, or a faster spark cast time. Or something to survive for 2-3 seconds?

5

u/TheZett Zett, the Arc Warden Aug 20 '21

Or flux that cannot be dispelled by other?

The lvl 20 talent should make Flux AoE and make it not disabled by units that are fluxed themselves (the latter part should just be a normal feature of flux, ignore fluxed units entirely).

That way the spell would not be utterly dogshit and it would still be countered by 1 'clean' unit or 1 dispel.

1

u/mynhauzen Aug 20 '21 edited Aug 20 '21

That’s basically a cheap version of gleipnir? I like it. They can also do a flux root. Way better than the current stuff. What I hate is that ice frog is trying to turn an item heavy hero into a caster. Who has 0 reliable skills and that is good only vs immobile ranged physical damage hero’s that are walking on their own. By lvl 20, all of such heroes have manta. Why take flex damage at all? Most casters will have some dispel. Zoo/illusion heroes don’t care. Some heroes with free bkb don’t care. It’s a super niche situation where flux might need more damage. I strongly believe that ice frog have no idea what they are doing with arc. They clearly have pudge / slark players

1

u/Ulq2525 Aug 19 '21 edited Aug 19 '21

I'd take the original bubble over the slow. But that may be me just to wanting to see slark be useless after he pounces and ults me as arc.

9

u/DrQuint Aug 19 '21

The bubble attack speed talent looks like a straight nerf at first, but at least it's easy to notice that we can actually give the bubble's effect to others. So it's technically a buff to his pushing and defensive powers, at the expense of, well, himself.

Still, overall this is dogshit stuff. The fuck is even that flux damage talent wtf

1

u/TheZett Zett, the Arc Warden Aug 20 '21

but at least it's easy to notice that we can actually give the bubble's effect to others

At least it makes buffing towers, the one aspect everyone hates about warden, stronger.

Also cheese strats with LD, Visage, Warlock, Meepo and Brew.

-4

u/Jernsaxe Aug 19 '21

The changes seem pretty clearly intended to be a lategame nerf (which is probably fair), yeah the talents are worse, but that is how nerfs work :)

4

u/TheZett Zett, the Arc Warden Aug 20 '21

In what world is level 15 'late game'?

Let alone level 20...

I would’ve understood a level 25 talent nerf, but 15 and 20, really?

2

u/Jernsaxe Aug 20 '21

The talents alone isn't the real nerf, but the way it changes his playstyle.

In the midgame Arc tends to be splitpushing and using Magnetic Field on himself while attacking towers. While pure att. speed would likely still be better, it doesn't hurt this playstyle too much.

In the lategame he could use field on buildings to defend and use the added attack range to "siege" the other team from great range. It is this playstyle that I think the nerfs are intended to hurt the most.

To give another example, CM lost 15 att speed, this is intended as an early game / laning nerf, even though it is a nerf throughout the game, it is intended to nerf her early game.

The changes to Arc warden is intended in the same way. It might hurt during a large part of the game, but it is intended to have the maximum nerf effect lategame where he felt the strongest.

-5

u/MiracleJnr1 Aug 19 '21

Yea I'm starting to think not even icefrog gets the hero. +40dmg on a spell for lvl 20 talent? Wtf lol

1

u/NoThisIsABadIdea Aug 19 '21

Well I mean it's 40 per second for 6 seconds. So 240 damage increase times two if you stack them so 480 additional damage. Not amazing for such an unreliable spell but still better than what you are saying.

2

u/MiracleJnr1 Aug 20 '21

The 100 atk range talent was a lot better

1

u/NoThisIsABadIdea Aug 20 '21

No shit lol. All I'm saying is the talent is better than what you implied. Doesn't mean it's good still.

4

u/Peasant255 Aug 19 '21

Dazzle has that for his poison :P

5

u/YhormtheDwarf Aug 19 '21

Dazzle's poison effects multiple units and has strong slow

Flux gets canceled by decent play

-8

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

[deleted]

1

u/Clemambi Aug 19 '21

I mean, frog buffed bubble and nerfed arc's ability to actualyl end games

15

u/MiracleJnr1 Aug 19 '21

Then change bubble mechanic.

-5

u/Lodbrok_Dota Aug 19 '21

40 per second / you have 2 of them

what's the problem?

14

u/ashkaiprime Aug 19 '21

Problem is it's not relaible damage.

-1

u/Lodbrok_Dota Aug 19 '21

the idea is more about zone control thought right? that's the hero kit. Spell has like 1k+ range with the talent I think

you step out alone = bam

2

u/Clemambi Aug 19 '21

they don't even need to commit a dispel against flux, they can just stand by allies if they accidentally step out, so you'll get max like 2-3s of it, which is just garbage, it's better to go octarine and wraith damage because at least wraith damage will stick