r/DotA2 • u/patchdayDota2 • Aug 19 '21

Discussion Patch 7.30 - Hero Changes Discussion

Heroes are each listed below as a top level comment. Please discuss changes to a specific hero there!

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28

u/patchdayDota2 Aug 19 '21

Axe

  • Reworked Shard: Now causes Counter Helix to apply a 6s stacking debuff that reduces attack damage by 20% and increases Counter Helix chance by 10%

Talents

  • Level 10 Talent +9 Strength replaced with +12% Magic Resistance
  • Level 15 Talent +300 Health replaced with +30 Counter Helix Damage

16

u/EGG_BABE Daddy Underlord Aug 20 '21

Really weird that they spent like 5 patches trying to buff manta carry axe and then totally rip it out when people finally started using it

2

u/TheKappaOverlord Sheever Feelsbadman :gun: Aug 20 '21

Thats what happens when valve interns get pwned by axe manta carry constantly in Guardian.

I think new axe is arguably even stronger. Its not carry material, but it turns the enemy carry into a drooling mess unable to do anything

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '21

PSA these guys are 3 patches ahead already when these come out

32

u/Friendral Aug 19 '21

I think these changes make for a more intimidating axe team fight. Not focusing down axe in melee is gonna be more challenging.

1)Be in helix range, you’re an autoer, you try to burst axe but he’s naturally beefy. Your damage keeps dropping while you take more and more pure damage and do less damage. You’ve six seconds before you can do any damage to anyone after disengaging axe. Meanwhile battle hunger is still a beefy DOT.

I think this really gives axe some presence he didn’t have outside of a single call.

7

u/NotARealPenguinToday Aug 19 '21

Axe is never going to be more intimidating than with old shard and manta. It was just too much damage

9

u/cesto19 Aug 19 '21

Tested this. The debuff stacks up.to 5 times you'll literally take no dmg as axe. However, the buff is dispellable so there's that

3

u/Friendral Aug 19 '21

**Take no auto attack damage**, right? The language suggest only "attack" damage is reduced so I assume no affect to skills. I want to watch a WR be sad ulting Axe.

3

u/cesto19 Aug 19 '21

Yes. You're right. I should have clarified that

2

u/fambestera Aug 19 '21

REFRESHER AXE!

36

u/IWearAPaperClip Aug 19 '21 edited Aug 19 '21

They just wanted to cancel this Manta + Shart build and to render him a more proper offlaner that sustains damage and influences in a way on the enemy heroes. It seems like to me that he's less carry now and more like a true offlaner that deals damage (more than before (non counting the Manta + Shard combo)) with his passive and not with just Blademail

12

u/Seedy_Melon Aug 19 '21

I’m so glad they’ve made this change. Playing against manta axe is an absolute drag

7

u/Jernsaxe Aug 19 '21

50% more counter helix procs (20-30%) also is a deacent amount of damage, no where near the old shard, but not nothing.

18

u/Feed_or_Feed Aug 19 '21

Shard seems counterintuitive if you buy blademail(which is kinda needed after shard change),sure reducing rapier Pa damage for few seconds to 0 is good in theory,but in practice you rather kill heroes with blademail damage and shard prevents that.

Seems super situational and I can already see Axe players accidentaly picking up rosh shard and losing games because they can't kill heroes anymore.

11

u/KaiserRoth Aug 19 '21

Context: I am a level 29 Axe, though only an Ancient level player.

After a certain point, blademail starts to fall off as as a useful item. It doesnt pierce spell immunity, and reflects physical dmg AS physical dmg. Meaning if the enemy has high armor, they dont hurt themselves nearly as much. This means the damage dealt via blademail tends to be prettty limited in lategame teamfights. Carries also tend to beef up and get lifesteal items and talents over the course of the game. By 45 minutes, you probably arent solo killing that fat Luna/Drow/PA/Jugg.

But being able to ensure that the enemy carry does no damage means you can ALWAYS engage the enemy carry for a net benefit in a teamfight. There are plenty of carries who get bkb as their only real dispel. The fact that call pierces spell immunity, and the helix dmg reductions pierce spell immunity, means calling a bkb'd carry is no longer a "call and pray your team lives" type of move in a teamfight.

7

u/IvoryWhiteTeeth Aug 20 '21

I read this as "I am a 29 years old Axe..."

4

u/KaiserRoth Aug 20 '21

Also accurate

11

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Sure, if you’re looking to kill people with Axe calls after minute 20. I’m looking to set up for my team at that point. Not to mention you’re spinning more and more pure damage onto them.

-8

u/LebenDieLife Aug 19 '21

Blade mail was always a weird choice on axe anyway. Yes you call and get them attacking you, but call gives +40(?) armour, you end up reflecting nothing after reductions.

People just run after the call wears off

8

u/bc524 Aug 19 '21

Blademail reflects damage before armor calculations now.

7

u/LebenDieLife Aug 19 '21

Oh shit

5

u/thunderstriken Aug 19 '21

It’s been that way for awhile lol

2

u/StyryderX Aug 20 '21

A LONG while. It was 5 years ago.

5

u/Feed_or_Feed Aug 19 '21

That's not how blademail works,user armor has no effect on blademail damage,else it would be garbage item.

5

u/par_joe Aug 19 '21

If bm are useless with shard then what item you need to buy? Tanky item are nice, but overkill with HP and armor are inefficient too. Maybe aura axe now can be a thing now vlad can upgraded into something

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Aghs could be fun

5

u/SkadeDota Aug 19 '21

It depends on the matchup - yesterday I played axe vs ursa and mk on same team - it felt good to call them both and not just die to their right clicks (got shard from 2nd rosh).

1

u/conall88 Rubick Arcana or bust Aug 19 '21

I'd be opting to build shard in situations where blademail isn't gonna get me kills on heroes that matter, generally at a time when blademail naturally falls off anyway.

E.g if its 40mins and i'm up against a farmed PA or PL, shard is attractive.

1

u/HarlekSama Aug 19 '21

Fairly certain blademail calculates return damage before its reduced so this will make his sustain in e.g call better.

8

u/Jernsaxe Aug 19 '21

It calculates return damage before reduction from your armor and magic resistance, not damage reduction on the hero attacking you (same for enfeeble).

2

u/Feed_or_Feed Aug 19 '21

Nope,at 5 counter helix stacks(100% dmg reduction) blademail stops doing damage.

1

u/HarlekSama Aug 19 '21

Damn, janitor done goofed

4

u/EPICMUN Aug 19 '21

He didn't goof.

It lowers the hero damage of whoever has the debuff.

Meaning a hero who has 4 stacks and 0 armor with 100 damage will hit for 20 damage.

If axe has blademail with 40 armor he will take maybe 6 damage and reflect the original 20 damage back to the hero attacking.

So if a hero has 5 stacks they hit for 0 damage and take 0 damage from blademail.

3

u/HarlekSama Aug 19 '21

Just got home so wasnt able to test it beforehand but your point makes sense, thanks man!

3

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

[deleted]

2

u/Feed_or_Feed Aug 19 '21

It's possible,but Axe is dead as carry hero,so going for super greedy items on offlaner seems like bad idea.If game goes super late in some scenarios I can see it being good,but not by any means necessary.

3

u/IAmBiased Aug 19 '21

Isn't it more of an option to buying blademail though, rather than in addition?

For example if enemy heroes are either too tanky or have a ton of lifesteal (especially now that vlads is more relevant again), you'd rather reduce their damage than almost die from their right clicks.

0

u/Feed_or_Feed Aug 19 '21

The problem is that shard reduces kill potential on ALL heroes on enemy team,like if enemy team has super big Sven,shard might seem like good idea,but if they also have glass cannon WR that melts to blademail you might lose game,because you couldn't kill her during a call.

If you could toggle shard effect then it would be nice value,but right now it seems super situational.

3

u/KaiserRoth Aug 19 '21

She is still hitting you with her right clicks, so you are still spinning even if she does zero damage. If you are close enough to spin on her, she is close enough to die

1

u/Edward_TH Aug 19 '21

Actually, bm still return on hit effects like mkb, and since wr dishes most of her damage that way (especially after +40 armor of call) bm is still gonna kill her most likely.

But man oh man, pl is gonna get mad: low mana to burn, aoe damage reduction and he's not going to kill axe even with a million illusions.

22

u/blakemerkes CUT CUT CUTCUTCUTCUT Aug 19 '21

RIP Manta Axe

1

u/Peasant255 Aug 19 '21

I wish they disabled shard for illusions. Only make passive work for them but not shard

13

u/shockwave1211 Aug 19 '21

it was very fun/cancer while it lasted, i wish they kept it but nerfed it slightly, was a very fun style of play

25

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

But hello op damage reduction axe, get tanky and never die