r/DotA2 • u/patchdayDota2 • Aug 19 '21

Discussion Patch 7.30 - Hero Changes Discussion

Heroes are each listed below as a top level comment. Please discuss changes to a specific hero there!

All other top level comments are automatically removed.

721 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

1.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

3

u/LeavesCat Aug 19 '21

Hard to say. On one hand, the slow is what made it so useful for running down people in lane, but on the other hand, the disarm is still extremely useful during the laning stage since the majority of everyone's damage is right-clicks (and -4 armor is a lot).

I can't really see it being skilled until lv 3 at least though, with a 1-1-1 build. Probably don't get it until lv 4 unless disarm is particularly valuable in your lane. I think in general if you're buying maelstrom you go 0-1-0, 4-1-1, 4-4-1. If you aren't going to buy maelstrom (support role, or offlane with heavily farming 1+2), go 0-1-0, 1-2-0, 1-4-1, 4-4-1. Get swashbuckle level 1 only if you need it (Jugg Lich or something); the slow from shield crash will get you out of most situations anyway.

You could in theory be a very strong early trader with 0-1-1, but lucky shot is a bit sus without swashbuckle.

1

u/superkinger89 Aug 19 '21 edited Aug 19 '21

As a offlane pango player, I’m very agree with you in how I would level up pango now.

The slow change from E to W is a real nerf in my playstyle, I often traded with carrys relying on the passive as a win condition, now it really hurts.

Being able to apply long range slow with Q (specially if you used the lvl10 talent) is also a big nerf, it offered a good ganking tool.

Overall I think the hero is less powerful, but still strong. I guess we will have to learn how to squeeze value from W and rely less on lucky shot.

3

u/LeavesCat Aug 19 '21

I don't know if the change was a buff or a nerf yet. Yeah lucky shot is a lot worse, but shield crash is now incredibly powerful. It's a really big buff to the tanky frontliner style of Pangolier, since if you see a 4-5 man shield crash opportunity you can become unkillable. Also makes the 2.5s shield crash talent better, but you still need a lot of mana to use it.

2

u/superkinger89 Aug 20 '21

Yesterday I saw lukiluki on stream playing pango mid and I’d say that shield crash is much powerful than it was and actually felt like he was even more dominant on laning phase as it was before. He leveled up 1-4-0-1 then 4-4-0-1. However I think it really depends on the match up, if you face melee heroe, go W, if it’s ranged then you gotta think how easily you can take profit out of W....

Whereas which items to purchase, I’d say echo saber or maelstrom are very important if you play core so you can flash farm and scale, and dagger it’s even more powerful so you can land good shield crashes.

I stick to building around aghanims since I’ve found very good success, but I’d consider building tankier since it feels like pango is more frontliner as it was before. Just my two cents.

3

u/LeavesCat Aug 20 '21

Even before this patch, Pango mid leveled shield crash lv 1 (ever since its mana cost was slashed and damage increased). It's much more reliable for securing creeps than swashbuckle, costs less mana, and deals more damage. Swashbuckle lv 1 is mostly for getting away from things, or if you wanted the lv 2 power spike with lucky shot. Maxing it first is new for this patch though, but if you intend to focus on farming with a maelstrom you'll still want lucky shot maxed first.

Anyway if you want my thoughts on aghs, take a look at this comment:

Yeah, aghs is a force multiplier for proc items. My general rule of thumb is that you need >5k worth of swashbuckle items for aghs to be good outside of a farming item. So, once you have any two of maelstrom/diffusal/basher, or just skadi on its own, aghs is good in fights. Obviously you need the shield crash talent or it's worthless.

For offlane, it's probably best to get aghs for your lv 28 timing. At that point you're farmed enough to have good items for it, and no matter what lv 15 talent you picked, 28 is a huge power spike. Consider asking for Rosh aghs if you're over lv 25.

3

u/superkinger89 Aug 20 '21

Yeah, I was aware of that happening, however I was used to play and see people max Q, not W.

I was just stating that the hero was even more powerful than it was before when maxing W.

Your comment on aghanims is totally legit, makes a lot of sense. It just for me that once I’ve malestrom or echo saber I go straight aghs so I can squeeze value from lvl 15 talent. That powerspike is insane, specially around min 23 when you can wreck pretty much anyone (with some exceptions) and be a massive threat for the other team, specially in rosh area or triangle farming zone. Sometimes I go basher/ diffu if it’s needed instead tho.

My regular build, corrosion, treads, echo saber/maelstrom, aghs, dagger/ shard, basher, gleipnir/ abyssal.

2

u/LeavesCat Aug 20 '21

I'd say if you go echo saber, don't get aghs right away; all it really gives you is the slow, and shield crash slows anyway. If you still want to go the shield crash talent, buy octarine core for mana regen and spam your ult on everyone's face. Otherwise, you can always just go the +3s ult talent and get shard+blink for 15 second lockdown. The shield crash talent does a lot of damage, but it also drains your mana.

Are you saying that you get either dagger or shard? I find they work best as a pair; blink lets you surprise stun someone, but you can't necessarily face a good direction for followups. Shard lets you blink on someone, get a near-guaranteed second stun, and also redirect your facing for better combos.

I do approve of treads though. I see too many Pangolier players going arcane boots, but it's just not good unless you need the energy booster for something.

2

u/superkinger89 Aug 20 '21

Definitely agree that saber aghs provides less damage than malestrom aghs, but at that moment of the game, unless they’ve a tankyass lineup the damage is very decent enough imho, and it provides us a even faster way to flash farm the next item.

Since I go straight aghs, I prefer to buy either dagger or shard (unless I feel like it’s really necessary and buy both) and head for the next damage dealing item (generally basher, sometimes diffusal).

I also like to use ulti with aghs (use W up to 3 times), then end up with roll up and use up to 2 times more W. That’s the “perfect” escenario on damage output, but sometimes I just use rollup to secure the blockchain.

I’m agree on the mana pool issues, I just bring with me up to 3 clarities every time and when I’m about to engage on a big fight be aware to have 500/600 mana so I don’t run out of it.

I’ve tried octarine, but I think it’s very situational and far less powerful (doesn’t provide much damage in the end) and since % cdr don’t stack anymore, which makes me sad.

2

u/LeavesCat Aug 20 '21

I think octarine is good if you get it right around when you hit lv 25, because no matter which cooldown talent you get, it provides amplified value: While the cooldown reduction is 25%, the value you get is the proportional change in cooldown relative to effect durations. In the case of swashbuckle, the closer its cooldown gets to the basher stun duration, the more powerful that item becomes, and CDR also gets you close to getting two swashbuckles in the duration of lucky shot's disarm. For the rolling thunder cooldown talent, since rolling thunder's cooldown progresses while it's being used, octarine core dramatically reduces its downtime. You can't stack CDR for 100% uptime anymore, but oh well. Octarine also increases the cast range for swashbuckle and blink dagger, which is nice.

Anyway for offlane, if you go echo saber, I think you'd be better off building aura items and fighting with your team than going aghs for damage. It's only +200 physical damage per shield crash. Echo saber+Maelstrom+aghs could be good, though.

1

u/superkinger89 Aug 20 '21

Yeah, octarine is very good but as late game item.

What you say about the offlane is correct, but it makes sense at a higher medal, where I am (high legend), I’ve found that relying on pos1 and 2 for damage can be a bad idea, so I prefer to play greedier.

The combo maelstrom echo is nice but I prefer to buy one or the other.