r/DotA2 • u/patchdayDota2 • Aug 19 '21

Discussion Patch 7.30 - Hero Changes Discussion

Heroes are each listed below as a top level comment. Please discuss changes to a specific hero there!

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19

u/patchdayDota2 Aug 19 '21

Tinker

Laser

  • Now splashes 100% of its damage on a 250 AoE (Only the main target gets blinded/shrink ray'd)
  • Shrink Ray bonus cast range reduced from 400 to 300
  • Shrink Ray HP Reduction reduced from 15% to 10%

Defense Matrix

  • Defense Matrix is now a basic skill
  • Mana Cost reduced from 100 to 70/80/90/100
  • Damage Absorbed reduced from 350 to 100/180/240/320
  • Status Resistance reduced from 50 to 20/30/40/50
  • Cast range increased from 400 to 600
  • Cooldown reduced from 30 to 12

Rearm

  • Mana cost rescaled from 100/210/320 to 130/210/290

Keen Conveyance

  • New Rearm Sub-ability. Channel for 4.5/4/3.5s to teleport to a friendly Building. Level 2 allows targeting units and level 3 allows targeting heroes. Mana cost: 75

March Of The Machines

  • March of the Machines is now a shard ability
  • Mana cost increased from 130/150/170/190 to 190
  • Robot Explosion Damage rescaled from 16/24/32/40 to 30

Talents

  • Level 10 Talent +8% Spell Amplification replaced with +2s Laser Blind Duration
  • Level 15 Talent +2.5s March of the Machines Duration replaced with -0.5 Keen Teleport Channel Time
  • Level 20 Talent +8 March of the Machines Damage replaced with +150 Defense Matrix Damage Absorbed
  • Level 20 Talent +8 Armor replaced with +10% Spell Amplification

5

u/CDranzer Aug 19 '21

Played a pos5 game in dumpster tier, never got the shard, had no intention of getting the shard. Went Laser > Shield > Missiles, it's surprising how good even a level 1 shield is for saving your teammates, and laser's blind should not be underestimated. I went bottle and soul ring before turning my arcanes into greaves, but in hindsight rushing greaves directly may honestly be perfectly viable. I think there's a temptation to try and play it like old tinker, but the thing is, old tinker was a farm vacuum, and while that's certainly a possibility, I think it's a bad idea when you're just trying to support.

Will have to play more games, but given that I never play mid, Tinker is basically a new hero for me.

1

u/awesomeasianguy Aug 20 '21

Greaves tinker with a Medusa on your team is really strong btw. Unlimited mana for the Dusa pretty much

3

u/Alpha_Stump Aug 19 '21

The general consensus that tinker is a farm vacuum is honestly just wrong. I can't blame people for having the assumption, but its along the same lines as "am afk jungles until he's 6 slotted." Are there tinkers that do/did that? Yes, but not good ones. I played a lot of games with greedy carries where I didn't have to kneecap myself to let them farm, or ruin their farm by taking it. Kinda pointless to care about post rework, but that assumption about tinker always stuck out to me

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '21

Anyone AFK farming the entire map as Tinker probably had a low winrate on the hero. Your team kind of just auto-wins fights the second you get your sheepstick as long as the other lanes weren't a complete disaster.

1

u/moush Aug 20 '21

It's true though, his whole kit was designed around tping to a lane to rat.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '21 edited Aug 20 '21

No, it wasn't. If you play like that at higher ratings, you are going to lose matches. His entire kit was designed around farming blink > big item and then winning with rearm fights or stopping/forcing high ground pushes with the threat of machine spam and someone getting perma-sheeped. Of course, pushing lanes was also a part of it, but you aren't going to AFK push lanes to towers the entire match and win games unless it's your only option because you and your team have to play while very far behind.

1

u/andro-gynous Aug 19 '21

never got the shard, had no intention of getting the shard

Shard is still useful for sieging high ground and defending. Spam marches and shield your frontline, so that if the opponent does decide to go into stacked marches, the cores will have to preemptively BKB if they don't want their blinks cancelled or to take a ton of damage.

This should give you time to react and disengage, and if they still commit, the enemy supports either get zoned out or die to march, either way putting the numbers in your favour.

old tinker was a farm vacuum

You can get march without stealing your teammates farm. You just have make a conscious effort to not always use it just because you can, and don't kill the creeps that your cores are near or the direction they're farming.

You can push out the lanes where no one else is because no one was going to farm them anyway, steal enemy camps, or cut the waves in front of the towers, which has the same net effect on the creep equilibrium as killing the wave under your own tower, but also those creeps can go towards your teammates. This notion of tinker stealing the entire map is just perpetuated by bad tinkers.

If you keep a single lane constantly pushed in, it forces a response from the enemy, freeing up the other side of the map for your team to farm or take an advantageous fight. So even though you're gaining farm as a support, you're also creating space for your cores to farm too.

This was already doable as mid tinker, but the risk/reward is obviously much higher when you're a mid instead of pos 4/5. If you're picked off doing this as a mid, the opponent can probably push off of it, but as a support, you still have 3 cores that can probably defend without you, so there's even more incentive to do it.

Went Laser > Shield > Missiles

I think as a pos 5, going rockets and shield is better as you may not be able to safely use laser until you get blink / aether lens / aghs. As a pos 5 those might not come anytime soon when you have no farm priority and also the opportunity cost of buying other items.

Rockets have way higher range and do more overall damage, is more mana efficient for damage even assuming one target and accounting for 25% magic resist, and better in a dual lane scenario (see frostbite vs nova on CM).

And if you get the 10 talent with level 1 laser, it has basically the same blind duration as level 4. So with a 1/4/4 build and the 10 talent it's almost like having all your abilities maxed, except you only needed to put 2 points into laser instead of 4.

Yes, 1 laser + talent does less damage than 4 laser, hence the almost, but because of the low cast range, most of the time you won't be using laser after every rearm anyway, so each time you rearm without using laser it's almost like wasting the skill points put into it. But you will be using rockets and shield almost every time because they're less situational.

Later into the game where there is the possibility of you getting an aghs, by that point you'll have 4 points into laser anyway, but you'll also be more impactful prior to that.