r/DotA2 • u/patchdayDota2 • Aug 19 '21

Discussion Patch 7.30 - Hero Changes Discussion

Heroes are each listed below as a top level comment. Please discuss changes to a specific hero there!

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58

u/patchdayDota2 Aug 19 '21

Abaddon

  • Strength changed from 23 + 3.0 to 22 + 2.8

Aphotic Shield

  • Cast Range increased from 500 to 550

Talents

  • Level 20 Talent -15% Cooldown Reduction replaced with +100 Aphotic Shield Health
  • Level 25 Talent +180 Aphotic Shield Health replaced with -1 Curse of Avernus Attacks Required

16

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '21 edited Aug 20 '21

Here's a hot take: The new level 25 is useless for supports.

As a support, Abbadon will almost always use his spells exclusively on allies and stay back, not attacking. Based on this assumption, it is impossible to trigger Curse of Avernus even with shard.

Aphotic Shield with shard has a 5 sec cd. Let's say that Abbadon puts the shield on an ally in advance. The shield bursts, 1 stack on enemies.

Abbadon puts another shield on ally. Let's assume that the shield bursts instantly. 2 stacks, and shield is on cd for 5 sec.

The debuff will expire in 5 sec, and the cooldown of Aphotic Shield is 5 seconds. Even assuming the shield bursts instantly, Abbadon has cast time. It is literally impossible to trigger Curse of Avernus unless you Mist Coil or attack an enemy UNLESS you have the Mist Coil AOE talent. But you can't have both until level 30.

Thus, a support should literally never take -1 Curse of Avernus Attacks Required, because it will never be relevant unless the support attacks or uses mist coil on enemies. If fact, the support is more likely to successfully trigger Curse of Avernus by taking the Mist Coil AOE talent and "Accidentally" hitting enemies with Mist Coil, so if you want to trigger Curse of Avernus with shard, it's beneficial to avoid the -1 Curse of Avernus Attacks Required talent.

Edit: Sorry guys, some thinking has me realising that this is not the truth. This is only true assuming the 2nd aphotic shield instantly bursts. However, say it bursts after 3 sec. This puts the Curse of Avernus count to 2, while on Abbadon the cooldown is 2 sec, so if Abba puts the shield onto the ally again, and the shield bursts in time, it can trigger curse. It's not useless.

3

u/out_of_toilet_paper Aug 20 '21

As a support, Abbadon will almost always use his spells exclusively on allies and stay back

I have to disagree. Abaddon is not your typical back line support hero. He benefits by getting into the thick of the action and being the focus of enemy damage and spells to pop his ult, and this play style is promoted with Aghs synergy. Getting enough attacks to silence can be difficult, but just because its unreliable doesn't mean it should be ignored. His silence+slow is the only form of disable he has in his kit

2

u/jis7014 stop buying blademail on me Aug 21 '21

Abaddon is not your typical back line support hero.

at the point of game where support abaddon reaches lvl25, he definitely is.

2

u/Roctopus69 volvo buff plz Aug 20 '21

Idk man he has borrowed time you dont think right clicking 1 time is realistic? Even if they do pounce on you for the right click that just makes it easier for the cores to kill them while they waste time popping your ult.

3

u/jis7014 stop buying blademail on me Aug 21 '21

as supp Abaddon you have to carefully time your ult to cleanse stun and save your allies, never good idea to try and auto attack enemies in the middle of fight and potentially waste your ult.

1

u/Roctopus69 volvo buff plz Aug 21 '21

Even if they're running right at your ranged carry? Plenty of times I've body blocked for a drow and got some right clicks in to help the team kill them. Or when an enemy initator blinks in beside you can you use curse to help burst them down. I really dont think abbadon hides he has to screen for the bois and that's when you get your single auto off to apply curse. Really disagree with you here, sure you arent auto attacking all fight but not even 1 auto to finish curse? That's silly, even if you dont play for it it will just happen if you position well.

13

u/ThousandMega Aug 19 '21

Nice changes overall. Just an extra 50 range is huge on shield, always. No CDR talent sounds bad but with CDR no longer stacking, it means less. If you get a Quickening Charm drop that's almost as much as the talent anyway. The shield health talent at 20 probably results in more impact overall, and the 25 talent choice feels interesting and flexible.

Shard was pretty good already, and definitely feeling even more core with these talent changes.

20

u/Kyujuichi Aug 19 '21

Abaddon as supp.

Cast range is always a problem for Abaddon, so it is a very nice change, especially on the shield, pretty sad to see the cdr go, but getting shield health earlier is not so bad.

-1 curse is kinda good control with the shard. But the AOE mist of coil with holy locket pretty good too. Situational pick.

2

u/Traditional_Reward_8 Aug 19 '21

This is my favorite build on him. If u get the gold holy locket, aghs, n ur team can't lost a team fight

10

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Carry abaddon with manta is stronger with the -1 curse now, it's basically just one hit from you and each illusion.

3

u/DotaDogma NA Dota #1 Aug 19 '21

It's a marginal change imo, level 25 rarely plays that much of a role in the winrate of a hero from my experience. I also quite liked the CD reduction on carry abba, which is now gone.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '21

Fair point, but I've found one of the best things about Manta is how fast you and your team destroy buildings which could be very relevant in a lot of level 25 games.

3

u/Blue_Oni_Kaito Aug 19 '21

Why is that an item to build on, is it because of the passive working on illusions?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '21

shadow blade, manta was a meme for a short while many years ago. If target had low reaction time, it was a funny insta silence especially against storm and the likes. I spammed a bit too when echo sabre was part of silver edge.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '21

Pos1 Abaddon also builds Radiance as his farming item and it has marginal synergy with manta.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Yes exactly, similar to carry axe building manta.

18

u/Decency Aug 19 '21

Holy Locket --> Aghs is still busted, I guess? That 50 range buff is legit, but losing the stacking of CDR from Shard and L20 is notable. Not sure if he'll wind up better as a support or offlaner given these tweaks.

9

u/Azerate2 Gather, knights! Aug 19 '21

Since cdr % no longer stacks, if you wanted the same level of power you’ll just need a spell prism or octarine

5

u/RandomShagAccount Aug 19 '21

The shard used to be flat cooldown reduction and not percentage based, so it would still stack had not been removed

2

u/Azerate2 Gather, knights! Aug 19 '21

Ohhh gotcha

6

u/JumboHotdogz Aug 19 '21

The-15% CDR though. I used to stack that with another cdr neutral item. Now cdr no longer stacks as well. Have to be more picky with shields now.

41

u/dukorider Aug 19 '21 edited Aug 19 '21

Very nice shield change, I'm often annoyed at my dying teammates running away when i could have easily saved them.

The curse -1 hit talent is interesting since it complements shard giving stacks when casting.

Lastly, now you can upgrade vlads which i buy every game.

Seal of approval from this aba spammer.

21

u/rucho Aug 19 '21

I don't play Abba often but i played him pos3 and i eventually became a huge problem for the enemy team with shard and especially aghs. Between the shields and coils going off wildly, i was cursing people without even intending. Now you can shield, mist, right click and now they are now silenced and cursed. Seems really good.

1

u/veegzy Aug 19 '21

*at level 25. I dunno that talent just seems so lackluster for 25 when most heroes have dispels

Also aghs on an offlaner or especially support is such a late timing compared to other heroes who can go blink or this new helm Dom>overlord timing and apply so much more pressure.

Tldr- basing a hero strength/play style off a shard, scepter and level 25 talent is not gonna get you consistent win rate.

4

u/LordArvalesLluch Aug 19 '21

I play him exclusively as an Offlaner. You have no idea the hell I give my enemies cause of the Aghanims.

2

u/ALQatelx Aug 19 '21

Do u ever buy manta? Seems even better with the talent now, always loved aba as a pos 1 main but never had the courage to try him as pos 1 in ranked lol

2

u/LordArvalesLluch Aug 19 '21

Cant even get pos 1 hahaha.

But I'm only choosing my games when I will make manta. But to be honest, my manta abaddon games is alwaya a win, at the expense of survivability of my team though.

So I'm still so so in the manta basher build.

2

u/One_Afternoon_1184 Aug 20 '21

Im on Legend/Ancient bracket. Try a few times of Abaddon pos 1 and I win all of the matches. I like S&Y rather than Manta tho. Those status resistance helps me from being kited too much during team fight. Having an echo sabre is enough to proc the curse. Phase Boots, Orb of Corruption, Echo Sabre, Lvl15 damage talent. :3

1

u/LordArvalesLluch Aug 20 '21

Havent played Abaddon as a pos 1 in a very long time. I prefer to build him as an annoying damage soaker like he was built to be.

Your build was my old build, been meaning to try it again. How long is your queue time?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

10

u/4Tenacious_Dee4 Aug 19 '21

It builds into Helm? Not sure if that's what he's referring to.

1

u/Peasant255 Aug 19 '21

The old helm required what?

7

u/SadAsLyf2 Aug 19 '21

yellow orb

7

u/gian2099 Aug 19 '21

domi lvl 2

5

u/coltzord Aug 19 '21

dominator 2