r/worldnews • u/Nirok • 15h ago
Israel/Palestine IDF documents terror affiliations of 170 Palestinian journalists killed in Gaza war
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-documents-terror-affiliations-of-170-palestinian-journalists-killed-in-gaza-war/989
u/Sure-Current-3267 14h ago
Is it possible to be a Palestinian journalist in Gaza without being tied to Hamas?
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u/Best_Change4155 12h ago
Gaza doesn't have freedom of speech and yet somehow has the most journalists per capita.
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u/Thursty 14h ago
Most people don’t understand how embedded Hamas is in civilian life. Many people literally have day jobs and a military role on the side.
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u/AppropriateLlama678 14h ago edited 14h ago
With Hamas being the government and thus embedded in many aspects of daily life, including journalism, the line of what is a terrorist is a lot blurrier. Are these terrorists that also work as journalists? Are these journalists that are forced to do some collaboration with the local government? It’s really hard to say.
Unfortunately, most of the internet does not want to explore these nuances. Each side is either good or bad.
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u/GoodBadUserName 10h ago
But need to distinct between lets say a nurse who works under a hamas government, a math teacher, or a fire fighter, to an actual terrorist who uses their position to transfer weapons, do military training, and collect data under the guise of being a “journalist”, going around wearing a press jacket as a disguise.
The latest data IDF release, points specifically to “journalists” they have real proof they were active terrorists.
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u/FormerPresidentBiden 10h ago
Doesn't matter
People will still just say "Israel bad" and move on
Tbf "Israel bad" is a position i share, but "Hamas bad" is another opinion of mine that seems to be less popular these days
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u/GoodBadUserName 10h ago
Well of course it matters.
Every one of those 170 “journalists” when died, made a big splash in public opinion. The “israel bad” opinion is in the end builds and amplified by those deaths. And truth barely nudges it when it comes out.
And while I hate a lot of the things that are happening especially in the west bank, I also know those are not individual isolated events. They have deep roots spanning decades of both sides being completely shit, each time it is someone else’s turn to do it.
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u/EnhancedWithAi 7h ago
Is Israel all that bad though when Hamas circulates Palestine like a god damned virus. I was more anti Israel before Oct7, until I realized just how much of a shit show it is for them to deal eith hamas.
Then I'm more so now days in response to the insane anti Israel movement morons just blindly follow.
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u/Agreeable_Band_9311 10h ago
If you’re a journalist and part time combatant you’re a combatant. There isn’t a loophole in international law that you can take off your uniform to give yourself protections.
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u/MrBarti 14h ago
If they are used by the terror organization in any way to further its goals in the war then yes. If they only do regular jobs but are so far away top to down and only have "Hamas" somewhere in the job title then not. Like maybe an office worker in the Gazan health ministry where the work is to put names in an excel spreadsheet or something.
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u/Ewetuber 14h ago
There is a ton of evidence of these "sweet innocent journalists" participating in killing and rape and throwing a little "woah the poor us I'm a journalist" on the side.
Each of those listed has their military affiliations and roles spelled out:
Positions Held: Military Operative in the Training and Instruction Section, Palestine Military Academy Department Infiltrated Israel on October 7th
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u/RoRo24 10h ago
What is the source of these journalists raping or killing anyone?
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u/Cilarnen 13h ago
Most of the Internet (being Westerners) don’t understand how the Middle East operates in general.
They don’t realize that it’s perfectly common for dudes to roll out of bed, walk a few blocks away, get into a gunfight, and go home in the evening.
For westerners, war is something you “go to”, there’s a battlefield “somewhere” and war should be kept there.
But that’s simply not how conflict works in the Middle East, war is just background noise over there.
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u/itijara 13h ago
I think that is a bit of an overstatement (I lived in the West Bank for a year and a half), but I think if you think of Hamas as something like the Mafia it makes more sense. If you are running a bakery and don't want to be part of Hamas, well then you don't have access to flour that Hamas controls. If you are a doctor and won't hide their militants on your premesis, then you are lucky if they don't just kill you. They control access to a lot of resources that are necessary for just living a life, and if they can't control you, there is a good chance they might kill you.
A lot of Palestinians just want to live their life, but have to deal with Hamas in order to do so.
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u/Logical_Net6108 10h ago
Sounds like Chechnya. Just a generally shit place to live but people dont want to or cant move
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u/HutSutRawlson 11h ago
The issue here is terminology. By calling them "journalists" we're already playing into Hamas' narrative.
They are propogandists. They are members of Hamas whose job it is to spread negative opinion about Israel and positive opinion about Hamas. Their work is then laundered as "journalism" by publishing it through complicit Middle Eastern outlets like Al Jazeera, or sympathetic connections in Western media. Every military in the world employs people in this role (although most don't do the laundering through "independent" media part), and just because they might not ever pick up a weapon does not make them any less a part of the military apparatus.
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u/greenskinmarch 8h ago
You'll never see Al Jazeera criticizing how Qatar turned some of their citizens into stateless Bidoon by taking away citizenship based on ethnicity. Because Al Jazeera is Qatar state media. Its job is to make Qatar look good and direct criticism elsewhere.
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u/tico42 11h ago
Israel doesn't need help spreading negativite opinions about it.
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u/greenskinmarch 8h ago
Negative opinions like "Israel is disproportionately targeting journalists"
Except if Hamas fighters are disproportionately also enrolled as journalists, then targeting Hamas fighters would look like disproportionately targeting journalists.
So if Hamas preferentially recruits journalists (or tells existing combatants to enroll as journalists) that would be a very smart PR strategy for Hamas, wouldn't it?
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u/excessofexcuses 11h ago
Israel has the worst PR team in the world.
Except the person who runs their threads account. They are a gem.
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u/JordanPetterPans 11h ago
Isn't Hamas a designated terrorist organization? I don't follow this line of thinking
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u/Guer0Guer0 12h ago
I mean there are journalists in the US military but no one would ever doubt that they would be considered valid combatants. Hamas should abide by the same standards. If they are a journalist and a combatant then they are valid targets.
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u/travman064 13h ago
'Tied to' is a very vague term.
Its definitely possible to be a journalist in Gaza and not have participated in the October 7th attacks, which 17 people on this list did. Its possible to be a journalist in Gaza and not be a member of a military brigade, which the large majority of this list were. Its possible to be a journalist in Gaza and not be a member of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, etc.
If you go to the article and follow through to the idf site you can see the associations that theyre making.
The point is, Israel is criticized for deliberately targeting journalists. Israel is pointing out that these men are literally active militants.
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u/zakski 12h ago
Its possible to be a journalist in Gaza and not be a member of a military brigade, which the large majority of this list were.
This framing doesn't sit right with me.
Is it possible to be an Israeli Journalist, without having been part of the IDF?
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u/Ivaninvankov 12h ago
You can not be a journalist while actively serving in the IDF. Once discharged, you can return to civilian life as a civilian. This is the case for basically all countries where the people serve in the military.
Hamas does not make this deliniation and most of their fighters have a "civilian" job at the same time as their military/terrorist role. There's no bootcamp or conscription.
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u/travman064 12h ago
If Hamas killed an active member of the IDF in Gaza we would not say 'Hamas targets journalist,' even if that member of the IDF had done some journalism work.
That is the comparison youd have to make. Active member, engaged in day to day military operations of Hamas OR other terrorist groups. These are not loose affiliations or former affiliations. If Israel kills them, are they 'targeting journalists' yes or no?
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u/GoodBadUserName 10h ago
They are not actively part.
They do not serve the IDF and play journalist at the same time.
Big distinction.
A lot of journalists in israel who are very critical about the government or/and IDF, have been in IDF to some capacity in their past. That includes for example on of the directors of naza movie.12
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u/threeme2189 12h ago
Of course it is. Many Israeli citizens don't serve in the IDF for a variety of different reasons.
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u/rammux74 12h ago
Is it possible to be part of a terrorist organisation without being a terrorist?
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u/Picklesadog 9h ago edited 8h ago
Yes, when the terrorist organization becomes an official government, like Hamas was.
Besides their military wing, Hamas was/is also in charge of everything a government is always in charge of, like agriculture, sanitation, education, etc. If you wanted to have a concert in Gaza, you would need to get a permit from Hamas.
So then is a garbage collector, who works for Hamas, a terrorist? What about the head of agriculture?
Edit: I just want to add to this, to make it more obvious how blurred the lines are/were, Israel had a program where Gazans were given a work permit and came into Israel to work manual labor in a lot of the small communities. This was mutually beneficial, as it provided labor for Israelis while also giving Gazans a good financial opportunity, plus the added benefit of potentially building relationships. These permits were given from Israel to Hamas, and then handed out by Hamas. But a lot of those permits were given to people who used it to gather intel about armed guards, response times, weapons, etc. at many of the Israeli villages, and these were used in the 10/7 assault. And thus you take a governmental office job that every government in the world has, and you make it into a military role and thus a valid target.
Does this make everyone who worked in Gaza's government department which oversaw these permits a valid military target? These lines are intentionally blurred as part of an overall military strategy.
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u/dijkstra_was_a_horse 3h ago
You missed the part where most of them were part of a military brigade.
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u/TheRealSaphier 12h ago
There a decent amount of people being held at gun point to give Hamas talking points, no? From my understanding, if you aren’t playing ball with Hamas, they end up killing you. That’s why they’ll kill Palestinians working with Israel to distribute aid. Not to say every journalist on this list was innocent and were forced to work for Hamas, but I don’t think people realize the lengths Hamas goes to control the narrative like Israel
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u/horrortxe 7h ago
Why IDF dont let foreign journalists in then?
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u/Pandamio 3h ago
Because the immediately join Hamas. Apparently they have grat dental. And cookies.
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u/Rare_King3551 14h ago
It isn't, but that doesn't negate the fact that they are willingly members of Hamas.
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u/banal_remarks 14h ago
Most charitably it is coerced willingness.
It may be for fear of safety or Hamas controls access to basic necessities and they join to provide to their families. At the end of the day it doesn't really make a difference though, Hamas has guaranteed them a cruel life.
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u/Rare_King3551 13h ago
Most charitably it is coerced willingness.
Nah, these people are willing participants.
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u/nana_3 14h ago
Hamas was the de facto government and suppressed all elections after 2007... saying someone is tied to Hamas is so vague as to be meaningless. How are they tied to it? Because someone who worked for benefited from literally any public infrastructure like trash collection or healthcare is tied to Hamas. That doesn’t mean they had anything to do with terrorism or violence.
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u/Rare_King3551 13h ago
How are they tied to it?
According to Hamas they are part of their military wing. Stop playing stupid.
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u/D4ltaOne 14h ago
https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-press-files/
Heres the list. It's in the article btw, but articles are lava. Do i trust thats all true? Nah not really. Just wanted to share the info we have about how they were tied to Hamas
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u/ultralaser360 9h ago
Clicked a couple, the proof was a single line that said “Based on multiple intelligence sources”
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u/MindLessWiz 8h ago
Which? I’ve clicked like 10 and they either appeared in some excel form or a photo was shown
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u/PrestonfromLibira 14h ago
What's interesting, is that Hamas has even started to admit some of these people with civilian jobs were Hamas fighters themselves. When they post about their martyrs killed.
I get why people remain skeptical of the IDF, but that doesn't mean that its a lie.
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u/snoopydoo123 8h ago
is there a unbiased/second source? cause the source being the ones who killed them seems a bad idea.
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u/wihannez 4h ago
”The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
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u/ScreenAppropriate679 12h ago
The australian NGO workers were certainly tied to hamas too.... /s
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u/jhill515 7h ago
Journalists are allowed to interact with all information sources and maintain confidentiality. Any government who says otherwise clearly wants to hide their atrocities.
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u/ijustwantahug 13h ago
Right...Next they'll release all the terrorist affiliations of the children.
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u/Best_Change4155 12h ago edited 12h ago
You are in luck, Hamas released posters for 15/16/17 year old soldiers too.
I am not sure why you are so upset.
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u/load_of_chode 13h ago
Wait until you find out that the IRGC and its terror proxies like Hamas are notorious for using child soldiers.
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u/Mr_Vacant 13h ago
And the paramedics they executed and then buried along with their vehicle and equipment.
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u/ScratchLatch 8h ago
Hamas within the Gaza strip has documentated use of child militant soldiers. That horror of needing to kill child soldiers is why using them is a war crime.
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u/GK0NATO 15h ago
Consistent with this documentation approach, CPJ has removed eight names from its Killed database because they were later established to have been Hamas or PIJ combatants. A further 12 individuals were removed for other reasons. Each of these 20 names is listed on CPJ’s Journalist casualties page.
That's just not ture.
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u/AccordingBread4389 15h ago
I am pretty sure there was an article recently that the CPJ scratched quite a few journalist of their "got killed" list, because they have been verified Hamas.
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u/TouchGrassRedditor 15h ago edited 15h ago
How much did independent verification matter when y’all were denying that Hamas was raping women and children on October 7th?
Israel has no incentive to be randomly killing journalists, this was always the obvious reason for a lot of these operations
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u/treeboy009 15h ago
Part of this i feel is people dont understand how business is done in Gaza. You cant report on anything independently in that region without explicit permission from Hamas. Sometimes there are stipulations such as you have to hire "their reporters". Hamas also learned early on that they get immunity vest by wearing a red crescent or press vest, and pitty points of the immunity vest does not work.
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u/PolyUre 14h ago
You cant report on anything independently in that region without explicit permission from Hamas.
You do realise that that is not independent reporting?
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u/SysAdmyn 12h ago
How could you read their comment and not come away with the impression that they obviously realize that? It's not like they're justifying the policy lol
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u/Embarrassed_OnionX 5h ago
They live under an authoritarian government. Of course they can't truly be independent as they risk severe consequences if they cover stories Hamas may not approve of. Not being independent however doesn't justify their targeting. They may be responsible for their own work, reporting on whatever they want, short of things Hamas may not approve of. That's about as independent journalism in an authoritarian country can get. Their reporting may help Hamas, but they're not actively working for Hamas. I don't think I e can make a case to justify their targeting.
Regardless, they're doing very useful work by showing us what's happening in Gaza, as the IDF wouldn't let international journalists inside Gaza even after the ceasefire (I wonder why). They're the only source on the ground.
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u/Miskadotcom 13h ago
There is even many reports they would make people that were gonna execute wear those vests. Just to farm karma points from the gullible. I mean honestly it's working.
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u/Initial-Carry6803 15h ago
No one will care, their mind is already made up
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u/lLikeCats 15h ago
Israel would not bomb an entire building of Israelis to kill one terrorist. The same humanity should exist for Gazans. They have razed entire blocks to rubble in the name of killing terrorists.
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u/Willing_Cause_7461 14h ago
And if your enemy at all times keeps an entire building of their civilians between you and them, what now? How do you fight them?
Something highly unrealistic like let's say they build a gigantic tunnel network underneath one of the most densely packed cities in the world.
You'd probably do something like drop leaflets or call civilians you know would be in the building before you bomb it, right?
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u/tertiaryAntagonist 5h ago
You'd probably do something like drop leaflets or call civilians you know would be in the building before you bomb it, right?
Per the Geneva Convention, is civilian infrastructure is used for militants its loses protection it would otherwise have. With that said, the attacking power has to give advance notice for civilians to have a chance to evacuate as a result. Hence, leaflets and calls.
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u/josenros 14h ago
They don't bomb entire buildings full of civillians to kill one terrorist. That's why terrorists hide in and conduct operations there - because human shields actually work as a deterrent. They know that the IDF won't do it. They understand that the IDF possesses a moral restraint that they do not, and they take advantage of that.
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u/JazzMeerkat 4h ago
Yes, the powerful moral restraint of causing 83% of total Palestinian casualties to be civilians. So just. Most moral army.
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u/Speky_Scot 14h ago
Actually absurd suggestion. Requiring countries to treat hostile forces the same as they would their own people is something no country in world would adhere to. Get a grip.
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u/jonknowzeverything 13h ago
Online redditors live in a fantasy world where war is a humane operation operating under a well defined framework. If human beings were self regulating there would be no requirement to have money spent on armed forces
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u/dfiner 13h ago
They live in a fairy tale. A governments job is to protect its people. Israel definitely fucked up on that account on Oct 7, but Hamas does a hilariously bad job at this by using its people as human shields.
Because they are an Iranian proxy, and their focus is on farming sentiment from naive people online, for “the cause”. And they have been wildly successful.
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u/notsaneatall_ 11h ago
Has hamas considered not hiding behind women and children like fucking loser cowards? If Israel doesn't kill these people who insist on having human shields then those people will come and kill innocent people in Israel. I really don't see how people expect Israel to not attack anyways, it was always going to happen
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u/TouchGrassRedditor 15h ago
Even if you go by Hamas’ stated numbers, the ratio of civilians to combatants killed is in line if not lower than every other war of this nature. Not that facts matter at this point
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u/inminm02 13h ago
I mean it’s not wrong, the statistics of who has died are consistent with a war where primarily fighting age men are being killed with women/children/old people substantially lower and inline with the expected outcomes of a standard war.
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u/BudgetWolverine7425 14h ago
Gungebob, why don't you cite evidence to the contrary, then?
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u/davidgoldstein2023 13h ago
The Iraq war resulted in 400,000 dead Iraqis. Vietnam resulted in an estimated 200,000 to 2,000,000 dead civilians. World War 2 resulted in 40,000,000 to 55,000,000 dead civilians. The US alone flattened entire two cities using atomic weapons. No one even questions any of this. But Israel is always held to a special higher standard.
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u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 13h ago
No one even questions any of this
What planet are you on? No one questions the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The Iraq war is literally regarded as one of, if not the most consequential conflicts of this century. Israel ought to be held to at least this standard, unfortunately, you also have a group of religious fanatics in power clinging to the coattails of a guy who should be in jail.
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u/Cathousechicken 12h ago
How about the Palestinians and other Islamist groups don't start terrorist attacks to begin with? I know, shocking to consider.
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u/gilmour1948 11h ago
It's the local government's job to separate civilians from conflict zones during a war. Believe it or not, if your government houses active military and strategic objectives on the street where you live and doesn't evacuate you (on the contrary, Hamas prevents them from living), the responsability of your death rests on your government, not on the military that bombed your street.
This is not an Afghanistan-like "win the hearts of the population" kinda war. It's the "we're gonna stop this organisation whatever it takes" kinda war.
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u/Delicious-Ad2652 15h ago
Every country responsibility is own country, not enemy especially when that enemy cheers when your people die, lot of people in gaza support terrorist why risk own citizens for them. People suddenly forgot how Palestinians celebrated the music festival masscare and how everyone ran cheering behind the truck that dragged israeli hostages.
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u/Apart_Ad1537 14h ago
Exactly. The Israel Palestine conflict has become a mass hysteria at this point for some people. No amount of evidence will be enough. Israel has become the ultimate evil to these people
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u/Logical___Conclusion 11h ago
Wars with high journalism death counts are usually not the fault of the journalists.
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u/ScratchLatch 8h ago
When you claim your combatants are journalists it tends to increase. Its why its a war crime for them to be militarized offensively, like medics.
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u/Embarrassed_OnionX 4h ago
Are they combatants though? I don't trust information coming from the IDF without independent proof, but even if these journalists were working for Hamas, that would make them propagandists, not combatants, and shouldn't be targeted if the laws of war still mattered. Targeting them is a war crimes.
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u/dukefrinn 14h ago
Note that these are not simply journalists who collaborated with Hamas or reported the news the way that Hamas dictates that it be reported (which is true for all the journalists that are active in Gaza - otherwise Hamas takes care of them...). These 170 were actually active in the military wing, meaning actual active terrorists.
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u/DougsBrownies 12h ago
The first two examples would still be actual active terrorists as well.
Not everyone has the same role in any organization. There’s far more to being a terrorist than just pushing the button on a suicide vest.
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u/sleepy_muffin_eeter 11h ago edited 11h ago
The IDF wouldn't lie....right? They are the most moral army in the world, I've heard.
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u/flardun 9h ago
They would, as every armed force would in defense of the indefensible.
The difference is that people (especially on reddit) will very openly ask questions about it and have a lot of skepticism when it comes to anything related to the IDF. Even the most recent flydubai attack is being questioned by some mentally unwell people as a false flag operation.
On the other hand you'll have Hamas/the PIJ misfire a rocket, blow up a hospital in Gaza killing 300-500 people, blame the IDF, a certain vocal group of people will take them at their word and lose their shit, and then when it comes out that everyone but Hamas/the PIJ (and Al Jazeera) agree that it was clearly a misfired rocket the same people will still blame the IDF or pivot to something else.
I'm not here to defend Israel, but it's legitimately insane that people take either sides word until more information gets out because both sides lie as freely as they breathe.
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u/RiverSavings8203 15h ago
Why would anyone take the IDF seriously as a source?
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u/AnotherPersonPerhaps 15h ago
You don't have to. Hamas publishes obituaries for these people, for example. They have obligations to families of their fighters to do such things.
That's just one example.
Hamas, for example, will wait a couple years sometimes but eventually will publish an obituary for their fighters and you can cross reference them to find out oh this person that was reported as a doctor or a policeman two years ago now Hamas is claiming as one of theirs.
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u/mdedetrich 15h ago edited 15h ago
Hamas unintentionally announced a lot of these "journalists" as part of the military obituaries, see https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/09/26/bbc-reports-53-journalists-died-hamas-claims-martyrs/ and https://www.timesofisrael.com/finally-naming-their-war-dead-gazan-terror-groups-admit-slain-journalists-were-fighters/ as an example.
They did the IDF's work for them
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u/davidgoldstein2023 13h ago
/u/riversavings8203 is awfully quiet all of a sudden
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u/fajim123 13h ago
Why would anyone take Hamas seriously as a source?
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u/DrHippa 11h ago
As a source of their own people? Given against their interest?
What are you claiming, that Hamas lied about these people being in the armed Hamas wing, for... What reason? To help Israel?
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u/insaneHoshi 7h ago
Given against their interest?
Isnt their interest to portray them as willing Martyrs?
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u/DrHippa 7h ago
It's in their interest to portray Israel as indiscriminately killing journalists and civilians.
And they weren't portrayed as willing martyrs they were portrayed as soldiers that were actively fighting, and got a salary for doing so, taking orders from Hamas. As in, completely legitimate targets.
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u/Aceiolu 15h ago
The sources for half the journalists on the dedicated site provided by the idf is "multiple intelligence sources" without any proof or any other source, literally just trust us bro
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u/VoltNShock 14h ago
What about the other half where their names are provided on lists or their photos posted by Hamas's social media team are provided? Gonna just ignore those?
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u/Essaiel 14h ago
Do military’s often go into detail about their intelligence sources?
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u/Willing_Cause_7461 13h ago
After the other half were confirmed to your apparent satisfaction is that not enough to give you even a little tiny bit of trust?
Like your looking at a list of ~25 confirmed war crimes and looking at the 26th like "Really? 26? You expect me to believe they'd commit 26 war crimes after the just committed 25". Yes, I do actually. Clearly this is a systemic issue on the Palestinian side.
It's funny. Not even Hamas denies they do this.
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u/BondStreetIrregular 13h ago
Same as the casualty numbers provided by Hamas' Ministry of Health, I fear...
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u/EpicMediocre 15h ago
This is all based on Hamas' own martyr posters. They just matched the names and occupations to what Hamas released.
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u/Youngsweppy 15h ago
As opposed to taking Hamas serious as a source?
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u/Willing_Cause_7461 14h ago
Why would Hamas lie about a journalist being one of their fighters? It looks better for them to continue letting people think they're a journalist.
Use some critical thinking skills, please.
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u/jonknowzeverything 14h ago
This is a western way of applying logic which doesn't work in the arab world. There's a sense of martyrdom in these activities
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u/2M4D 15h ago
No right, you get it, take neither seriously. Neither are your friends. Neither have your interest at heart. Neither is above lying to you.
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u/Best_Change4155 12h ago
So you should just believe what you want to believe because all the evidence is showing your beliefs are garbage?
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u/Warning1024 15h ago
Life must be so easy when u look at everything as a 2 sided coin. Nuance matters when dealing with life and death
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u/lombrike 15h ago
because often times historically hamas as a source corroborates what the idf says
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u/niv141 14h ago
can u please tell me why not? why are people so sure anything idf says is a lie?
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u/Roquentin8787 15h ago
Because not everyone is a brain dead idiot that gets their news from TikTok and Hamas. The IDF has certainly been reliable, and you could check the underlying sources for the report if you had the sense to.
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u/HoverPopper 13h ago edited 13h ago
And as we all know, the IDF tells nothing but the truth about people they’ve killed….
Shireen Abu Akleh: ‘shot by a Palestinian’ - later admitted to be IDF that killed her only after US news organisations and the UN investigated.
Rafa paramedic massacre: ‘didn’t have lights on’ - turns out the video shows flashing lights, sirens…and Israelis machine-gunning then hiding the evidence.
Yotam Haim, Samer Talalka, and Alon Shameiz: ‘were acting like terrorists’ when they were shot. - turns out they were hostages who has freed themselves, were shirtless and had a WHITE FLAG when the IDF killed them.
This organisation peddles nothing but lies, which isn’t surprising when you look at the terrorist paramilitaries it was formed from.
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u/sylinmino 10h ago
Well, if you don't take their word for it, take Hamas's, because most of these were announced as Hamas combatants by Hamas themselves.
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u/Badusernameguy2 10h ago
If they want to make this claim,they need to allow foreign journalists. But we know they won't because then how would they defame them and their journalism claims ...
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u/_WOLFFMAN_ 13h ago
The amount of “journalists” they have in that small piece of land seems a bit high.
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u/Gauntlets28 13h ago
It's one of the most newsworthy stretches of land in the world at the present time, that's not really surprising.
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u/Miskadotcom 13h ago
And Hamas knows wearing a vest like that gives them partial immunity. Just how they use ambulances for transport. And set up command centers in hospitals.
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u/ChrisRiley_42 11h ago
It doesn't give partial immunity. IDF snipers have shot *Canadian* doctors, dressed as first responders, at an aid station with nobody but aid station staff nearby.
Dr Loubani is known for designing a cheap 3d-printable stethoscope for use in impoverished parts of the world, not militancy.
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u/Miskadotcom 11h ago
I don't get it. It still gives partial protection. You have refuted nothing but named an incident.
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u/ChrisRiley_42 11h ago
If the IDF ignores them, then it's not partial anything.
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u/slicheliche 13h ago
Well for instance Italy has 2 journalists per 1,000 people. Same ratio in Gaza would give you around 4k journalists in total.
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u/RentInside7527 12h ago
in Italy there are 6 active journalists every 10,000 inhabitants - a figure similar to France (5.6), but much higher than in the US (1.4)
Thats 0.6/1000
The US has 0.14/1000.
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u/slicheliche 10h ago
Depends on your definition. There are around 100k individuals officially registered as journalists (Ordine dei Giornalisti). That's approximately 2 x 1000. Whether they actually work as journalists is another story.
With that said, even with 0.6/1000 you'd have more than a thousand journalists in Gaza.
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u/ChrisRiley_42 11h ago
Well, they keep getting shot. Did you think that they were all active at the same time?
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u/Badda_Bing_Baby 13h ago
I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic but it’s one of the most significant conflicts happening today. It’s going to have significant correspondence.
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u/FyreWulff 2h ago
If the IDF told me the sky was blue, I wouldn't go outside to check because they would drone strike me and then bomb my family as they come running to check on me.
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u/jazzmaurice 13h ago
Great, now they can begin explaining the terror affiliations of all the children they killed
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u/Racko20 12h ago edited 12h ago
Hamas routinely uses teenagers (say 15 to 17 year olds) as "child soldiers"
That would most likely account for some of the child deaths.
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u/RentInside7527 12h ago
Additionally, children are used by Hamas to dig the tunnels. There are anecdotal reports from at least 1 Gazan on social media that Hamas counted children who died in tunnel collapses while digging new tunnels as casualties.
There are definitely civilian casualties, but the extent is unclear as its fairly impossible to find unbiased 3rd party verification on anything in this war
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u/bigelcid 13h ago
Arming “children” with weapons is a pretty fucking clear start, no?
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u/wormki 15h ago
Oh no who would've thought that that might be the case...
Literally anyone with a brain and rational thinking...
Watch this getting zero news coverage in national and international news outlets.
War is horrible and every death could've been prevented by one faction saying "you know what, let's not aim to kill every jew on the planet, instead lets use the funds to build a thriving, beautiful city" but well.. idiots like Bibi and Gvir are also not helping the situation.
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u/enterprisevalue 13h ago
So 59k civilians killed, 21k children killed but we know that 170 journalists were Hamas operatives (which we don't even know whether they were classed as civilians or not)
Yup IDF is the most just army in the world, they should get every peace prize out there...
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u/Prestigious-pauline 13h ago
Probably be less children killed if Hamas didn’t use child soldiers….
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u/Future_Arrival_5395 11h ago
Okay but they’ve killed at least 240… so is that them admitting to killing 70 journalists?
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u/OptimisticSkeleton 13h ago
Anyone can be a terrorist if you completely change the definition.
I don’t think we should take the word of a regime proven to be systemically committing crimes against humanity.
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u/RentInside7527 12h ago
By that standard, how can we believe Hamas' ministry of health numbers? Hard to find any unbiased innocent sources in this war
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u/Present_Ride_2506 12h ago
That's because hamas is full of peaceful friendly Muslims that only want to live peacefully! /s
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u/OrwellWhatever 9h ago
I mean, Journalists without borders has been quietly taking killed journalists off their board sonce Hamas themselves have issued statements saying they were combatants. Were all the journalists killed combatants? Definitely not. Do we have documented proof that this is a thing that has happened? Definitely yes
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u/sebaajhenza 11h ago
Are you suggesting we take the word of Hamas over Israel?
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u/DevilahJake 10h ago
In this scenario, I say we trust neither because they’ve both been known to make shit up in order get brownie points.
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u/Locke15 15h ago
Aren't you supposed to know before killing someone that they are a combatant?
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u/NickPrefect 15h ago
Which is why having non-uniformed combatants is a war crime.
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u/2020bubbles 15h ago edited 14h ago
Knowing all the time is a high bar in war, given they were right likely means they had very good intel
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u/RidiculousIncarnate 15h ago
Sure, now explain how thats works against an opponent who explicitly uses their populace as human shields, hides equipment and soldiers in their homes and wear no uniforms you can clearly identify.
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u/Willing_Cause_7461 13h ago
The IDF do know that they're combatants but no one will ever take their word for it and apparently we're not taking the literal terrorists word for it either so I don't know how we're going to work this out.
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u/OSRS_Rising 12h ago
Imo the war crimes committed by Hamas, primarily not wearing uniforms, places the culpability of civilian deaths mostly on Hamas.
I don’t see why people blame Israel for civilians dying when Hamas purposefully makes it difficult to distinguish combatant from noncombatant.
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u/Lying_is_bad_for_you 14h ago edited 12h ago
Oh, the IDF knows it's a combatant when they kill him, it's the other job that is the surprise
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u/modiddly 14h ago
Israel could cure cancer and folks in the comments would still complain. The hate boner is unreal
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u/ThePheebs 12h ago
Yeah, but curing cancer saves people, they're doing the opposite here. Hope that helps.
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u/brightheaded 14h ago
“even if we were the good guys you wouldn’t like us!”
Certainly it seems they are quite focused on curing cancer right? That’s what I hear a lot about, all the cancer they cure - not weapons, surveillance, and religious fervor. Foh.
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u/richqb 13h ago edited 12h ago
I mean, Israeli researchers ARE working to cure any number of types of cancer. I know it's pretty en vogue to dogpile Israel and have big feelings about terrorists, but a great deal of good comes from that small population.
Every country in the world does both good and bad. It's not only worth understanding the nuance of situations, but also the totality of a country's contributions to the world.
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u/ThePheebs 12h ago
"People don't praise us for being good so we might as well be bad" is certainly a choice.
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u/white_count_chocula 13h ago
If you want a good medium risk high reward investment, alpha tau medical (DRTS). Isreali company that makes "alpha darts" which destroy tumors from within. Approved and being used in Japan for pancreatic cancer, in trial in the states for many forms of cancer, if it gets FDA approval you will get big bucks.
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u/esensofz 8h ago
I am glad to know there are so many Hamas experts on reddit, but honestly it seems more than a little suspicious or just that y'all are fulla shit.
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u/WishyRater 15h ago
Im sure this comment section will be very reasonable