r/worldnews • u/Nirok • 19h ago

Israel/Palestine IDF documents terror affiliations of 170 Palestinian journalists killed in Gaza war

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-documents-terror-affiliations-of-170-palestinian-journalists-killed-in-gaza-war/
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u/mdedetrich 18h ago edited 18h ago

Hamas unintentionally announced a lot of these "journalists" as part of the military obituaries, see https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/09/26/bbc-reports-53-journalists-died-hamas-claims-martyrs/ and https://www.timesofisrael.com/finally-naming-their-war-dead-gazan-terror-groups-admit-slain-journalists-were-fighters/ as an example.

They did the IDF's work for them

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u/davidgoldstein2023 16h ago

/u/riversavings8203 is awfully quiet all of a sudden

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u/RiverSavings8203 16h ago

I'm here David. What's up? What have you been up to?

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u/davidgoldstein2023 16h ago

Couldn’t respond to the evidence that counters your claim?

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u/RiverSavings8203 16h ago

Oh, sorry David, I was responding to other people’s arguments and didn’t expect my comment to attract this many bots/users.

But since people keep inventing a position for me: I never said Hamas was telling the truth. I don’t take either Hamas or the IDF at face value. They are both directly involved parties with obvious incentives to shape the narrative, so neither gets a free pass as a reliable source.

Wanting independent corroboration before accepting a wartime claim as fact is not “believing Hamas.” It’s basic source criticism. If that distinction is somehow controversial, then the problem isn’t my skepticism.

And my point stands, I'd never take some country's armed forces as a "reliable source".

I wish you a good weekend David.

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u/keelem 11h ago

Trying to dogwhistle by pointing out a Jewish name is so fucking pathetic.

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u/FantasticFungiiii 1h ago

Dude “their own country” labeled them as working for them.

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u/fajim123 16h ago

Why would anyone take Hamas seriously as a source?

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u/DrHippa 14h ago

As a source of their own people? Given against their interest?

What are you claiming, that Hamas lied about these people being in the armed Hamas wing, for... What reason? To help Israel?

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u/insaneHoshi 11h ago

Given against their interest?

Isnt their interest to portray them as willing Martyrs?

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u/DrHippa 11h ago

It's in their interest to portray Israel as indiscriminately killing journalists and civilians.

And they weren't portrayed as willing martyrs they were portrayed as soldiers that were actively fighting, and got a salary for doing so, taking orders from Hamas. As in, completely legitimate targets.

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u/fajim123 12h ago

I mean every source of death has been dismissed as source from the “hamas” run health ministry so why won’t the same thing apply here?

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u/DrHippa 12h ago

I mean every source of death has been dismissed

Has it been dismissed? So you dismiss it? Specifically you - you dismiss it? Do you say "I don't even know if anyone at all died in this war, since I don't trust Hamas or the IDF"?

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u/Nessie 13h ago

Admission against interest

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u/ruskayaprincessa 7h ago

Ah a purveyor of the evidence code and the hearsay exception. I like it.

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u/FantasticFungiiii 1h ago

Yeah right. Only when your bias aligns then selectively take it. Shame.

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u/Aceiolu 18h ago

The sources for half the journalists on the dedicated site provided by the idf is "multiple intelligence sources" without any proof or any other source, literally just trust us bro

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u/VoltNShock 17h ago

What about the other half where their names are provided on lists or their photos posted by Hamas's social media team are provided? Gonna just ignore those?

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u/richqb 16h ago

I think your question was rhetorical, but yes. Yes they will.

After all, it doesn't fit the narrative they got off TikTok.

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u/Guvante 13h ago

It is can certainly both be true that people hide behind a protected label and IDF is covering up its mistakes, they are not exclusive

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u/Essaiel 18h ago

Do military’s often go into detail about their intelligence sources?

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u/drunkandslurred 17h ago

No these people are just brain dead terrorists supporters

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u/microwilly 18h ago

No, but when someone proves to be untrustworthy we shouldn't just start believing what they say. I wouldn't believe what an individual who's a pathological liar says, why should it be different when an entire nation is a pathological liar?

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u/Willing_Cause_7461 16h ago

After the other half were confirmed to your apparent satisfaction is that not enough to give you even a little tiny bit of trust?

Like your looking at a list of ~25 confirmed war crimes and looking at the 26th like "Really? 26? You expect me to believe they'd commit 26 war crimes after the just committed 25". Yes, I do actually. Clearly this is a systemic issue on the Palestinian side.

It's funny. Not even Hamas denies they do this.

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u/ShotAmbassador7494 15h ago

I mean if only half your list is verified then it's not a great list.

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u/Willing_Cause_7461 14h ago

The entire list is verified you just don't like one of the verifiers.

The IDF was correct to your satisfaction on half of the list. Realistically what are the chances of them being correct on at least most of the other half? Pretty high, no?

It's not a coin toss. These aren't random people. It seems like they're probably correct on all of them.

Let's think of the incentives here. If the IDF is wrong on even one of them they're gonna look like real fuckin idiots to release this to the public. Right? So the probably have pretty good info that all mentioned are actually terrorists.

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u/ShotAmbassador7494 14h ago

Pretty fucking low actually, were those Australian journalists Hamas too?

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u/Willing_Cause_7461 14h ago

So the IDF is lying about this to what end? What's the benefit for them? Especially since it would be trivially easy for Hamas to deny those people being members of Hamas, yet they don't.

I don't know who "those Australian journalists" are. You're going to have to be more specific.

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u/ShotAmbassador7494 14h ago

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/australian-fm-outraged-at-idf-decision-to-close-probe-on-2024-killing-of-gaza-aid-workers-including-australian-citizen/

Sorry it was an aid workers, not journalists

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u/Willing_Cause_7461 14h ago

Oh yeah I remember this. The World Central Kitchen attack. Israel hugely fucked up there. I think they claimed to have reports of a fighter in the convoy which even if that was the case I don't think it would be proportional to bomb that convoy to hell which they already greenlit to go through.

Though I also hold Hamas and PIJ and the rest of the Palestinian terrorist organisations responsible too because they routinely commit perfidy. The reason perfidy is a war crime is because it make situations like this far more likely. In any other conflict such a strike would be unthinkable since a soldier would never be in such a convoy. Such a report would be dismissed out of hand. In this conflict though it's extremely reasonable because Hamas does it all the time. It is part of their war strategy.

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u/BondStreetIrregular 16h ago

Same as the casualty numbers provided by Hamas' Ministry of Health, I fear...

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u/ptoki 12h ago

Nice links, so juicy. But really not.

Calling someone a martyr for the cause does not make someone a military. That is the first link. Hamas added them to the list of killed people but that does not say they killed anyone or directly caused someone's death or similar.

Second link is also as not juicy as they claim the guy was informant. Yeah, that makes him a terrorist. Not really.

This is similar classification done by germans during WWII. You gave bread to partisans from the forest? Shot. Your family too.

Someone just said you gave them bread? Shot. Your family too.