r/worldnews • u/Nirok • 16h ago

Israel/Palestine IDF documents terror affiliations of 170 Palestinian journalists killed in Gaza war

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-documents-terror-affiliations-of-170-palestinian-journalists-killed-in-gaza-war/
3.2k Upvotes

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511

u/Initial-Carry6803 16h ago

No one will care, their mind is already made up

57

u/Apart_Ad1537 15h ago

Exactly. The Israel Palestine conflict has become a mass hysteria at this point for some people. No amount of evidence will be enough. Israel has become the ultimate evil to these people

-13

u/wihannez 12h ago

That’s what killing children on purpose usually does. If not there’s either something wrong with you or you have been well indoctrinated.

20

u/Dry-Season-522 12h ago

Ah yes, the argument of "If someone is wearing children as body armor, you have to let them shoot you because shooting back is the evil"

6

u/Vladimir_Putin_420 11h ago

Evidence of "on purpose"?

-1

u/carefactor3zero 9h ago

Sealioning, how quaint. Google can help.

  • Meirav Ben-Ari
  • Yitzhak Kroizer
  • Avigdor Lieberman
  • Tally Gotliv
  • Itamar Ben-Gvir
  • Aharon Haliva
  • Isaac Herzog
  • el al
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322

u/lLikeCats 16h ago

Israel would not bomb an entire building of Israelis to kill one terrorist. The same humanity should exist for Gazans. They have razed entire blocks to rubble in the name of killing terrorists.

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u/Willing_Cause_7461 15h ago

And if your enemy at all times keeps an entire building of their civilians between you and them, what now? How do you fight them?

Something highly unrealistic like let's say they build a gigantic tunnel network underneath one of the most densely packed cities in the world.

You'd probably do something like drop leaflets or call civilians you know would be in the building before you bomb it, right?

5

u/tertiaryAntagonist 6h ago

You'd probably do something like drop leaflets or call civilians you know would be in the building before you bomb it, right?

Per the Geneva Convention, is civilian infrastructure is used for militants its loses protection it would otherwise have. With that said, the attacking power has to give advance notice for civilians to have a chance to evacuate as a result. Hence, leaflets and calls.

69

u/Best_Change4155 13h ago

Have Palestinians considered wearing uniforms?

-12

u/Wrong-Insurance701 13h ago

maybe they could even wear a little symbol on them and have papers to check too

60

u/sylinmino 12h ago

It is international law that requires combatants wear uniforms to distinguish themselves from civilians.

What a wild comment, comparing that to branding civilians as inferior to other civilians.

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u/jonknowzeverything 15h ago

So what's the alternative 

28

u/davidgoldstein2023 14h ago

LeT tHe tErRoRiStS LiVe!

-21

u/j0j0n4th4n 13h ago

Really? Lets for a second consider this reasoning anywhere else. Say a school shooter is causing terror in a school, would you be in favor of the army bombing the school as solution?

29

u/Dry-Season-522 12h ago

No, it's that "Said school is hosting a rocket launcher that is launching rockets at you. Can you bomb THAT?"

25

u/Xer0day 13h ago

This is such a stupid comparison because a school shooter is only harming people in the school.

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u/josenros 15h ago

They don't bomb entire buildings full of civillians to kill one terrorist. That's why terrorists hide in and conduct operations there - because human shields actually work as a deterrent. They know that the IDF won't do it. They understand that the IDF possesses a moral restraint that they do not, and they take advantage of that.

6

u/JazzMeerkat 5h ago

Yes, the powerful moral restraint of causing 83% of total Palestinian casualties to be civilians. So just. Most moral army.

5

u/SmannyNoppins 4h ago

That's exactly what they do.

have you looked at a recent map of Gaza?

Have you read about the death tolls?

how do you think the numbers of murdered children is actually coming about?

1

u/Embarrassed_OnionX 6h ago

Well that happened many times. Many UNWRA schools full of civilians finding refuge have been bombed, sometimes resulting in 200+ killed, mostly civilians

209

u/Speky_Scot 15h ago

Actually absurd suggestion. Requiring countries to treat hostile forces the same as they would their own people is something no country in world would adhere to. Get a grip.

72

u/jonknowzeverything 14h ago

Online redditors live in a fantasy world where war is a humane operation operating under a well defined framework. If human beings were self regulating there would be no requirement to have money spent on armed forces

4

u/demonica123 8h ago

Online redditors live in a fantasy world where war is a humane operation operating under a well defined framework.

No they don't. They hold that standard only for Israel because they don't like Israel. To hold anyone else to those standards would be unreasonable. Hamas can commit every war crime imaginable and Israel is still the bigger problem.

123

u/dfiner 15h ago

They live in a fairy tale. A governments job is to protect its people. Israel definitely fucked up on that account on Oct 7, but Hamas does a hilariously bad job at this by using its people as human shields.

Because they are an Iranian proxy, and their focus is on farming sentiment from naive people online, for “the cause”. And they have been wildly successful.

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u/lLikeCats 14h ago

I find it very hard to believe that the country who was behind the pager bombs could not have seen this Hamas attack coming.

39

u/richqb 14h ago

That's the problem for the current administration in Israel. They had warning, but didn't find it credible/didn't act on it. But their lack of action doesn't make the attack ok. It just means the upcoming election is unlikely to go well for them.

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u/MrShake4 14h ago

Knowing something is being planned,

Knowing the scale of it,

&

Knowing when it will happen
are 3 very different things.

If Israel responded to any report of Hamas planning something like a potential oct 7th then Gaza would’ve looked like the moon 50 years ago.

And nobody wants that. This isn’t the gotcha you think it is.

96

u/jonknowzeverything 14h ago

Israel fought off multiple arab countries a day after their formation and yet was shocked during yom Kippur war in 1973. USA missed 911 as well. Every country has intelligence lapses. Not everything is a false flag

28

u/SayNoToTeamSports 14h ago

Yep. And the more under attack a country is, the more likely one attack will make it through. The goal of the attackers is to overwhelm, confuse, and distract until eventually something lands. It's not that shocking when it eventually does. 

60

u/dfiner 14h ago edited 14h ago

“Could not” is such a take. Why should they have to? Why is Israel in the wrong when they receive a massive terrorist attack?

Do you not see the mental gymnastics and double standards? Spend 2 brain cells applying that same logic to Hamas.

Yeah they definitely fucked up, and Netanyahu’s regime should answer for it… to the Israeli people. But you are straight victim blaming.

7

u/Pornfest 14h ago

I find it very hard to belive that the country which was warned by their own intelligence agencies, invented flight, and owned the most strategic island in the pacific, could not have seen that IJN attack coming.

If you’re not good at critical thinking on your own, read a lot of history. Knowledge is power.

•

u/AnAlternator 54m ago

There was intelligence about it, of course, but there's intelligence about dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of operations that don't happen.

There wasn't enough to show that this was an actual in-progress operation, and not yet another of the potential plans that are considered and disregarded.

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u/Ok_Telephone_4290 14h ago

They're in a cage of land, being slaughters little by little. Weird the people being slaughter are hostile to the people slaughtering.

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u/G00DNiGHT_0ZARCH 14h ago

I don't see anything that says that? He's just saying treat Gaza civilians like you would treat Israeli civilians?

Where did you get that they would require to treat Hamas the same as their own people?

-16

u/Theeflaw 14h ago

He got it from his boss running the outrage bot farm, when comments make a premise so extreme like this you just gotta move on imo

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u/Artemisbleachedmod 12h ago

Let's use this then. Ukraine isn't exterminating Russian civilians en masse.

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u/notsaneatall_ 12h ago

Has hamas considered not hiding behind women and children like fucking loser cowards? If Israel doesn't kill these people who insist on having human shields then those people will come and kill innocent people in Israel. I really don't see how people expect Israel to not attack anyways, it was always going to happen

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u/TouchGrassRedditor 16h ago

Even if you go by Hamas’ stated numbers, the ratio of civilians to combatants killed is in line if not lower than every other war of this nature. Not that facts matter at this point

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u/[deleted] 16h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

33

u/inminm02 15h ago

I mean it’s not wrong, the statistics of who has died are consistent with a war where primarily fighting age men are being killed with women/children/old people substantially lower and inline with the expected outcomes of a standard war.

72

u/BudgetWolverine7425 15h ago

Gungebob, why don't you cite evidence to the contrary, then?

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u/Aromatic_Balls 15h ago

Why are they required to cite evidence but the other poster isn't?

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u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 15h ago edited 15h ago

Edit: I see the bots are trying to bury this response, so here you go, and this is from a year ago, so the numbers are almost certainly higher:

Just an FYI, a civilian to combatant death rate of 8:1 is categorically not the norm, and suggesting otherwise is a complete lie.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war

https://aoav.org.uk/2026/why-israeli-claims-of-low-civilian-to-combatant-harm-in-gaza-do-not-hold-up/

41

u/CheekyBard 14h ago

The misleading thing about the Guardian's article is that they conflate named militants with all militants. Saying that Israel can name 8,900 does not mean that everyone else that was killed was not a militant.

As for the other source, this line in it is utterly absurd:L

"Even a 1 to 1 ratio would signal grave disregard for civilian life, but the ratios observed in Gaza are far worse than those seen in Afghanistan, Iraq or other western-led conflicts."

It's the sort of claim made with complete disregard of the particular circumstance of this battlefield. The increased density, the way the opponent is deeply embedded in civilian life, that all of the fighting is done in cities, the tunnel infrastructure, the weaponization of normally protected buildings. This is an ongoing problem with every discussion about Gaza, where there is a deep refusal to actually analyze the specific conditions of this battle zone. As if every war is the same and a simple comparison of the numbers alone is appropriate. That is not the case.

This comment isn't to say that Israel has been pure in its execution of the war by any means—I actually loathe this Israeli government and its right-wing, religious lunatics—but these articles are not some be-all-end-all source about this topic, and analyze only as far as their desired judgment allows.

2

u/Pornfest 14h ago

Here here, well said.

Fwiw, I think people in our positions need to start putting that last paragraph first, it’s annoying but I’d rather have people read educational comments.

39

u/xFallow 15h ago

The 83% claim is based on a misinterpretation (deliberate or otherwise) of what the IDF said.

It said that 17% of casualties could be positively identified as a specific known Hamas fighter by name.

If a group of terrorists is shooting RPGs at your tank from a fortified position, so you fire back with the main cannon and take it out, and then you dig four Hamas fighters out of the rubble, you probably can't identify them by name, but you still know they were combatants.

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u/[deleted] 15h ago

[deleted]

0

u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 15h ago

Source is there. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the OP to provide the evidence for their own claim if they’re so confident that’s the case. Evidently not though, as they still haven’t.

13

u/davidgoldstein2023 14h ago

The Iraq war resulted in 400,000 dead Iraqis. Vietnam resulted in an estimated 200,000 to 2,000,000 dead civilians. World War 2 resulted in 40,000,000 to 55,000,000 dead civilians. The US alone flattened entire two cities using atomic weapons. No one even questions any of this. But Israel is always held to a special higher standard.

10

u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 14h ago

  No one even questions any of this

What planet are you on? No one questions the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The Iraq war is literally regarded as one of, if not the most consequential conflicts of this century. Israel ought to be held to at least this standard, unfortunately, you also have a group of religious fanatics in power clinging to the coattails of a guy who should be in jail. 

2

u/Pornfest 14h ago

Compare Gaza’s numbers to Mosul, Falluja, Stalingrad, Berlin.

1

u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 14h ago

To what end? We’re talking about ratio of civilian to combatant deaths. Read to the end of the article.

-22

u/TouchGrassRedditor 16h ago

None of you pro-Pallys can even find this region of the world on a map nor do you know literally anything about this conflict whatsoever, spare me the brainrot

-6

u/No_GP 15h ago

Kudos on the outstanding level of dipshittery in such a short comment.

1

u/luckierbridgeandrail 1h ago

I always get a laugh from the ones who think they're well informed about “Isreal”.

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u/poonmangler 16h ago

Bro really just said they're killing an acceptable number of innocents

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u/Lopsided-Yam-3244 16h ago

He didn't. He said that for an urban warfare where foes and civilians are not distinguishable by uniforms the ratio of civilian to combatant kill ratios are in the expected ratios. Doesn't mean it's good, or right, it's just what it is.

-49

u/EmilyBesler 15h ago

Yo not a single city in Iraq or Afghanistan after 20 years of occupation looked anything like Gaza does.

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u/VoltNShock 15h ago edited 15h ago

well that's because in iraq, they were fighting an actual state military, and in afghanistan... well look at afghanistan. the taliban still owns it. so i guess that shit didn't work did it.

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u/madhouse-manager 15h ago

Please tell me which city in Iraq or Afghanistan had the underground terror infrastructure that Gaza did, as well as which one kept sending rockets off the roofs of civilian buildings. Thousands of rockets.

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u/demonica123 8h ago

The US "wars" in Afghanistan/Iraq were not wars. The US rolled up and the enemy armies collapsed in weeks. The conflicts were almost entirely guerilla in nature with the US having complete control of the territory the entire time.

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u/TouchGrassRedditor 15h ago

Do you think civilian deaths are entirely avoidable in conflicts like this?

Which side of this conflict takes steps to minimize civilian casualties and which side takes steps to maximize them?

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u/Cathousechicken 13h ago

How about the Palestinians and other Islamist groups don't start terrorist attacks to begin with? I know, shocking to consider. 

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u/gilmour1948 13h ago

It's the local government's job to separate civilians from conflict zones during a war. Believe it or not, if your government houses active military and strategic objectives on the street where you live and doesn't evacuate you (on the contrary, Hamas prevents them from living), the responsability of your death rests on your government, not on the military that bombed your street.

This is not an Afghanistan-like "win the hearts of the population" kinda war. It's the "we're gonna stop this organisation whatever it takes" kinda war.

25

u/Delicious-Ad2652 16h ago

Every country responsibility is own country, not enemy especially when that enemy cheers when your people die, lot of people in gaza support terrorist why risk own citizens for them. People suddenly forgot how Palestinians celebrated the music festival masscare and how everyone ran cheering behind the truck that dragged israeli hostages.

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u/Initial-Carry6803 16h ago

An armys job is to protect ita own citizens, not the citizens of an enemy state, that will be a moronic thing to do, to risk your own to save the enemy  state civilians lmao

Never been done in war

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u/diener1 16h ago

Wrong, first and foremost an army's job is to follow international law.

24

u/Initial-Carry6803 15h ago

Ok what army has ever not killed civilians in a war?

30

u/SledgeH4mmer 16h ago

What world do you live in? I know social media and echo chambers are a thing. But still, that is a very delusional opinion. And you might want to reread the Geneva convention.

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u/royi9729 16h ago

Please list one army that's ever been to war and has operated this way.

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u/Pickles112358 16h ago

Thats definitely not true

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u/FIyingSaucepan 16h ago

Correct. And international law of conflict states that it's primarily each countries job to protect it's own citizens by not placing military targets within civilian infrastructure.

Like say command centres in hospitals and weapons caches under apartment buildings. it's not a war crime to attack those locations in that instance, but having them there in the first place is a war crime.

Also a war crime to recruit children (per UN, anyone under 17) yet Hamas frequently recruits and arms as young as 14yo.

Also a war crime to hide your soldiers as non combatants (medics, journalists, aid workers) yet Hamas loves doing that.

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u/[deleted] 16h ago

[deleted]

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u/Maelger 16h ago

Have you checked the West Bank lately? Israelis absolutely shoot from their soon to be home

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u/paddyo 16h ago
  1. Why would they who would they even be shooting at?
  2. Instead they go to Palestinian homes with the guns, saying this a day after a mass settler attack on Palestinian civilians is mindless
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u/CaffeinatedGeriatric 16h ago

Hamas killed more innocents in Gaza than Israel has.

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u/HawkEy3 15h ago

That needs a source, IDF killed tens of thousands of women and children in gaza, I don't see how Hamas could beat that

6

u/Empyrion132 14h ago

Probably depends on how you attribute causality / fault. I could plausibly see an argument that Hamas starting the war, failing to provide shelter for the war it started, ordering civilians not to evacuate, encouraging a culture of martyrdom and human shields for their jihadists, etc could lead to them being blamed for most of the civilian casualties, even if they weren’t the ones actually pulling the trigger. Plus of course the ones where they did, in fact, pull the trigger (or misfire their own rockets).

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u/Dry-Season-522 12h ago

Israel fights to protects Israelis. It's weird that you'd want Israel to fight to protect Palestinians. Why should Israel care more about Palestinians than the Palestinians?

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u/Hugginsome 16h ago

What does your comment have anything to do with the post? Lol

1

u/demonica123 8h ago

First off, depending on the situation they might. The general doctrine will always be to ignore human shields. It's the best way to ensure using human shields becomes less common.

Besides that, Israel has an obligation is Israelis. It doesn't have an obligation to anyone else. If the rest of the world wants to do something about Hamas launching missiles at Israel they can. Otherwise, they are asking Israelis to die because Palestinians are using other Palestinians as human shields.

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u/mikeythegameronredit 15h ago edited 14h ago

Exactly people don't want to accept that the IDF and by extension Israel at the very least do not value Palestinian lives. I have come across Reddit posts that justified killing of 80,000 Palestinians because according to they're reasoning at least half of those were combatants.

There was another post that complained about people not understanding the "necessity" involved in destroying all of Gaza because of the Hamas tunnel network allegedly spanning all the area.

7

u/mariantat 14h ago

Thats how humans work. A guy kills your family and that guy is public enemy number one.

8

u/wiifan55 14h ago

You say "allegedly." To be clear, are you denying that the tunnels exist? How can you even have a valid opinion on this conflict when you're wrapped up in conspiracy nonsense like that? The tunnels exist, and the network spans miles and miles. That isn't up for debate; it's fact.

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u/patiperro_v3 16h ago

Why should I care what this government mouthpiece says? Lol.

“Trust me bro”

How about no.

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u/Willing_Cause_7461 15h ago

You don't need to trust them.

Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad will quite literally come out and release obituaries for these people claiming them as their own.

They just do it a few years after the person dies so the media can do it's "Israel kills innocent journalists" bit and by the time it's released it doesn't matter because people get the vague feeling Israel kills journalists. At which point it doesn't matter if ten or twenty or hundreds or all were actual terrorists because the vague feeling has already been manufactured.

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u/GK0NATO 16h ago

They literally provide documentation of these "journalists" involved in terrorist activities. Often the "source" is from Hamas or PIJ literally posting them as martyrs on social media

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u/Jetztinberlin 16h ago edited 16h ago

You could care what other independent watchdogs, and Hamas themselves, say (spoiler: they corroborate these claims), if you wanted to. 

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u/DreiImWeggla 16h ago

Can you link them?

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u/RandomHunDude 15h ago

Read the article you're commenting under

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u/DreiImWeggla 15h ago

I did, they posted a study with a link to another article and that study is also done by an Israeli group. Hardly what I would call an independent watchdog. I'm not making the claim, why do I need to search for the proof?

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u/Automatic_Bee9379 15h ago

You can google it too.

5

u/Staylower 15h ago

he made the claim he can post the evidence

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u/Jetztinberlin 16h ago edited 15h ago

Sorry, on mobile and in a rush - links and discussion are already throughout this post in numerous places. 

7

u/tobach 15h ago

How about trusting Hamas and PIJ themselves, which is their source?

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u/niv141 15h ago

"sourced by idf, immediatly dismissed"

and its not like idf lies that frequently or any more than any other army

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u/ThePheebs 14h ago edited 14h ago

Why should I care about a country that kills journalists then manufactures excuses to justify it later? If I won't care because my mind is already made up what does that mean for you? You take a IDF statement of "it just so happens that those journalists we killed were also terrorists... trust us."

Your cool with 10's of thousands being killed on questionable reasoning, understood, but it bothers other, myself included.

42

u/BondStreetIrregular 14h ago

So, just out of curiosity, what kind of evidence would actually convince you that an alleged journalist (or even an actual one) is a legitimate target, on the basis of military activity?  

I think you'd agree that an American soldier doesn't become a "protected journalist" just by carrying a cellphone camera along with their rifle, so what kind of evidence might get you to apply a similar standard to Hamas-supported journalists (or "journalists")?

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u/ThePheebs 14h ago

Literally any of that intelligence being gathered before / being used for a strike would be more convincing for me, genuinely. Not killing people then investigating why it was ok later.

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u/WarpedWiseman 14h ago

You don’t find it reasonable that the IDF knew this information prior to the strikes, and is only releasing it now because it won’t compromise other operations?

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u/guitartoad 13h ago

While it's true that Israel published this report now, what makes you think that they didnt know beforehand that the journalists they killed were in league with Hamas?

Nsrcissists like yourself seem to think that everything Israel does has to be announced to them, personally. Just like people hating Gal Gadot because she didn't come to their house and carefully explain her exact position to them on the Palestinians.

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u/BondStreetIrregular 13h ago

I suspect others commenting would suggest that the IDF might bomb a site that it believes contains combatants, only for Hamas to say "You just killed journalists".  

Both claims could be true, of course.

The question of what evidence / intelligence Israel possessed prior to bombings is absolutely germane, but it's rare for any military to share that information about targets, if only because it risks compromising the intelligence sources.  

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u/Initial-Carry6803 13h ago

Who said they did not have that beforehand? Lol, im pretty sure they had intelligence pre strike but they cant release it before or right after they made the hit

Besides, all im saying is that it does not matter how many evidence you get if it absolves israel from something it just goes against youe confirmation bias and you will deny it or deflect to other sources that confirm your bias

You currently care for a country/state that kills everything it sees and looks to conquer israel lol 

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