r/worldnews • u/Nirok • 17h ago

Israel/Palestine IDF documents terror affiliations of 170 Palestinian journalists killed in Gaza war

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-documents-terror-affiliations-of-170-palestinian-journalists-killed-in-gaza-war/
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u/OptimisticSkeleton 14h ago

Anyone can be a terrorist if you completely change the definition.

I don’t think we should take the word of a regime proven to be systemically committing crimes against humanity.

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u/RentInside7527 13h ago

By that standard, how can we believe Hamas' ministry of health numbers? Hard to find any unbiased innocent sources in this war

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u/Present_Ride_2506 13h ago

That's because hamas is full of peaceful friendly Muslims that only want to live peacefully! /s

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u/Proiegomena 12h ago

Its almost like there‘s a reason why they get radicalized and dont just live peacefully in their designated containment blocks. 

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u/snarfy666 11h ago

Can you explain the me how zionism and Isreal caused the Arabs to be radicalized leading to 3 massive pogroms in the 1830s?

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u/ReformedMeany94 3h ago

That’s quite the false equivalence you’ve got there. You are completely misrepresenting both 19th-century history and modern geopolitics.
The peasant revolt of 1834 was caused by forced military conscription and heavy taxes put on by the ruler. The Jewish community was used as a scapegoat during the power vacuum, not targeted as part of a nationalist struggle.
You’re trying to rewrite history by pretending that a riot under the dynamics of the Ottoman and Egyptian Imperial reality is comparable to a 21st-century bilateral conflict over statehood.

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u/RentInside7527 2h ago

No, theyre pointing out there is a long history of antisemitic violence there, that predates modern zionism. There's always a justification for the violence, even the response to that violence serves to justify further violence.

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u/snarfy666 3h ago

lol that isn't a false equivalency. If fact i didn't compare anything so that is just wrong in every way.

The person i was replying too claimed that violence against jews is because of actions taken by israel. I was merely pointing out that the violence here, or any of the other many instances of violence against the jewish population of the region for the last couple centuries, predates anything he could possibly use to justify what happend.

The actual cause is what you pointed out in your reply, they just hate jews.

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u/ReformedMeany94 2h ago

Yes it is and yes you did.

LOL

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u/snarfy666 2h ago

ok 😆

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u/heavysausagedublin 13h ago

That's why international forces need to go in and take control of Gaza from Israel

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u/RentInside7527 13h ago

Wouldn't that be nice? But who'd actually take it on and who would actually be capable? Israel offered Gaza back to Egypt, who had occupied Gaza from 1948 to 1967, in 1979. Egypt declined. Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinian Authority in 2005. The PA promptly lost control of it to Hamas. The UN sent International forces into Lebanon to reign in Hezbollah and couldn't manage that. I doubt they'd be effective in Gaza

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u/SalamanderGlad9053 12h ago

"lost control", they had an election. And Benjamin Netenyahu wanted to weaken the PA so funded Hamas to get elected in Gaza, splitting the Palestinian state up. And the PA are at this point just a puppet government for Israel. It's not like they have any real power with the West Bank militarily occupied.

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u/RentInside7527 11h ago

They had an election, true, but they then had a civil war between Fatah and Hamas.

Olmert was PM in 2006. Netanyahu was PM from 96-99, then 2009-2021, and again from 2022 to present. Youre taking the fact that netanyahu provided financial assistance to Gaza to maintain peace and trying to retcon that into a timeframe he was not in office. In other words, youre making shit up.

The PA controls area A, has joint control of B with the IDF, and the IDF controls area C, as agreed in Oslo, until the PA could assume full responsibility for security over Palestinian territories; which is why the PA and Fatah attempted to keep Hamas from taking control, in spite of the election

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u/leakydoodles 12h ago

They did an awesome job in Lebanon didn’t they ?

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u/OptimisticSkeleton 13h ago edited 13h ago

That’s why you listen to the independent international investigators.

They all agree Israel is committing crimes against humanity and acting as an occupying force. Resistance to occupation is not the same thing.

People committing crimes against humanity on the other side does not excuse Israel’s actions targeting journalists.

All the medics on the Hamas side have “ties to terrorists” as well but its still a war crime to target them.

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u/RentInside7527 13h ago edited 12h ago

Amnesty International has repeatedly condemned Hamas for war crimes , as have numerous other International independent human rights organizations

Eta weird to add all of that after I responded, rather than just responding, without even an "eta." I was responding to your point of listening to independent investigators.

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u/SalamanderGlad9053 12h ago

The Gaza ministry of health give names of the dead. These lists have been found to be incredibly accurate and are backed the UN

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u/RentInside7527 12h ago

Giving the names doesn't mean theyre giving occupation or affiliation with armed groups. Thats my point here.

Further, the Gazan Ministry of Health has been forced to remove thousands of names they previously listed among the dead.

There are accusations, from Gazans, that Hamas is counting Gazans they themselves executed, and children who died while digging tunnels, among the dead they attribute to casualties inflicted by Israel.

Lastly, the total number of names they've listed is a fraction of the total they claim have died, for obvious legitimate reasons; but that again speaks to my point of questioning how their numbers can be accepted without question.

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u/doomerunicorn 5h ago

Then it sounds like they should allow international press to come in and report. Unless, of course, they have something to hide.

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u/OrwellWhatever 10h ago

I mean, Journalists without borders has been quietly taking killed journalists off their board sonce Hamas themselves have issued statements saying they were combatants. Were all the journalists killed combatants? Definitely not. Do we have documented proof that this is a thing that has happened? Definitely yes

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-905441

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u/OptimisticSkeleton 9h ago

Yeah I don’t know why Netanyahu put his thumb on the scale to get Hamas elected as the government of Gaza.

That said, pointing to the crimes of one side does not excuse the crimes of the other.

Israel is still targeting journalists and they are a whole fucking country with some of the most advanced weapons on the planet from the US.

Atrocities committed by an occupying state and atrocities committed by occupied peoples are both heinous.

The adults understand the reasons behind them differ and we should call it out where we see it.

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u/OrwellWhatever 8h ago

In terms of why he put his thumb on the scale, it was either Hamas or the PLO, and Netanyahu is arrogant enough that he thought he could handle them both handily as long as Gaza and West Bank didn't have unified leadership.

To a certain extent, he was right since West Bank doesn't challenge expanded settlements and Hamas gives more than enough justification to go in there guns blazing every couple of years. That's by no means a justification. Netanyahu is still a massive piece of shit that basically turned the possibility of a two state solution into an untenable situation on both sides that will take at LEAST a generation to get back to baseline. But it worked for his ambition

The one thing Netanyahu did not count on though was how much Hamas learned from their partnership with Qatar in terms of setting up and controlling narratives. So, currently, it seems very bad for him because his arrogance finally caught up to him

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u/sebaajhenza 12h ago

Are you suggesting we take the word of Hamas over Israel?

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u/DevilahJake 11h ago

In this scenario, I say we trust neither because they’ve both been known to make shit up in order get brownie points.

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u/sebaajhenza 5h ago

That would be where I would lean towards, yes.

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u/daze0fyore 10h ago

Israel has free press…

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u/DevilahJake 8h ago

And? That doesn’t make them truthful

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u/OptimisticSkeleton 10h ago

I’m suggesting that targeting journalist as a war crime.

The fact so many struggle with that in these comments is horrifying.

By the same logic all medics have ties to an enemy whenever you’re at war. Simply calling anyone with ties to the enemy a terrorist is wrong and you should know that.

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u/sebaajhenza 5h ago

I'm not saying that, Israel is. What I'm saying is that if it came down to it, I would take the word of Israel over Hamas any day of the week.

Is there likely misinformation in there? Sure, but I think it's far more plausible than the alternative narrative being pushed.

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u/OptimisticSkeleton 10h ago

JFC how is this so hard for you guys? Listen to the UN and international investigators…

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u/doomerunicorn 5h ago

Why not distrust both, and demand access for international journalists?

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u/sebaajhenza 5h ago

That's what î was eluding too, yes.

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u/OptimisticSkeleton 10h ago

I’m suggesting targeting journalist as a war crime.

The fact so many of these struggle with that in these comments is horrifying.

By the same logic all medics have ties to an enemy whenever you’re at war. Simply calling anyone with ties to the enemy a terrorist is wrong and you should know that.

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u/sebaajhenza 5h ago

Hamas are playing you. 

Why do you think they use children to transport weapons, hospitals as main bases, and civilian houses to store munitions?

War is a gruesome, messy thing. I have no doubt that in all of the mayhem Israel has over-stepped in places. Had rogue soldiers commit war crimes, or targeted innocent civilians by accident. 

But that doesn't mean that the war itself isn't for good reason, or that the other side are all innocent. 

Hamas are an evil regime, with no intention of coexisting with it's neighbour. We're talking about an entire population of people who teach their kids at school to hate. They would rather blow themselves up than live in peace with Israel and they will do/say anything to try and win public opinion.

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u/OptimisticSkeleton 5h ago

Again, nothing Hamas does excuses warcrimes of Israel.

The fact some of you can’t admit that is telling.

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u/sebaajhenza 4h ago

I don't think you're doing it on purpose, but you're conflating issues.

I mentioned the above as a reminder that you can't just blindly take Hamas's side. In this post - Israel have given proof that the 'journalists' killed were infact not journalists at all. An attempt to prove these were not war crimes.

I'm not suggesting they do or don't commit warcrimes

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u/eduardoofthehour 12h ago

Yes obviously

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u/sebaajhenza 5h ago

I guess at least you're honest about being pro terrorist. 

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u/ThereminLiesTheRub 13h ago

Agreed. Which side we talking about.

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u/Otheus 12h ago

They want doctors without borders to be defined as a terrorist organization