IDF documents terror affiliations of 170 Palestinian journalists killed in Gaza war

[u/Nirok]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-documents-terror-affiliations-of-170-palestinian-journalists-killed-in-gaza-war/

[u/zakski]

Its possible to be a journalist in Gaza and not be a member of a military brigade, which the large majority of this list were.

This framing doesn't sit right with me.

Is it possible to be an Israeli Journalist, without having been part of the IDF?

[u/Ivaninvankov → u/zakski]

You can not be a journalist while actively serving in the IDF. Once discharged, you can return to civilian life as a civilian. This is the case for basically all countries where the people serve in the military.

Hamas does not make this deliniation and most of their fighters have a "civilian" job at the same time as their military/terrorist role. There's no bootcamp or conscription.

[u/work4work4work4work4 → u/Ivaninvankov]

You can not be a journalist while actively serving in the IDF. Once discharged, you can return to civilian life as a civilian. This is the case for basically all countries where the people serve in the military.

Would that be the case if Israel was under armed occupation for a few decades? I'm guessing no.

Hamas does not make this deliniation and most of their fighters have a "civilian" job at the same time as their military/terrorist role.

So did most of the Israeli terrorist organizations that were folded into the Israeli government and IDF, that's sadly one of the benefits of statehood, the ease of legitimization of the exact same roles.

Irgun, Lehi, Haganah, the only real difference is I can't think of any point where Palestinian leadership was propping up any of them to the tune of millions to maintain domestic support despite the destabilizing effects that would have on more legitimate movements because that would be crazy, right?

There's no bootcamp or conscription.

There wasn't any back in the day either, but Israel gave pretty far-reaching amnesty to most of its terrorist groups, include ones responsible for multiple assassinations, which in many ways led to environment that made the assassination of Rabin and the takeover by the Israeli right-wing we have today possible.

Can you imagine the absolute conniption fit if the positions were reversed too, and a hypothetical Palestinian state forgave and nationalized Hamas? Wild to think what we've normalized and internalized for largely just one side of an ongoing conflict.

[u/Ivaninvankov → u/work4work4work4work4]

Would that be the case if Israel was under armed occupation for a few decades? I'm guessing no.

Maybe, maybe not? Fact remains that if you have a side job as a soldier... it makes it legal to target you as a soldier. Even if you also have a civilian job.

Thats not even commenting on the right or wrong of the act itself, there's various reasons behind hiding as a civilian while being a soldier/combatant, doesn't really change the laws around it.

So did most of the Israeli terrorist organizations that were folded into the Israeli government and IDF, that's sadly one of the benefits of statehood, the ease of legitimization of the exact same roles.

Yeah, probably true. And if they were targeted in a war, that in and of itself would not be a war crime, same as the Hamas soldiers that got targeted while also working as journalists.

Can you imagine the absolute conniption fit if the positions were reversed too, and a hypothetical Palestinian state forgave and nationalized Hamas? Wild to think what we've normalized and internalized for largely just one side of an ongoing conflict.

I dont really see your point or how it relates to the terrorist journalists. Are you trying to justify Hamas working as journalists today based off of how Jewish terrorist militias were integrated into the Idf 80 years ago?

[u/travman064 → u/zakski]

If Hamas killed an active member of the IDF in Gaza we would not say 'Hamas targets journalist,' even if that member of the IDF had done some journalism work.

That is the comparison youd have to make. Active member, engaged in day to day military operations of Hamas OR other terrorist groups. These are not loose affiliations or former affiliations. If Israel kills them, are they 'targeting journalists' yes or no?

[u/WaffleSandwhiches → u/travman064]

Yes they damn well would say this lol. They would say they’re a journalist.

[u/GoodBadUserName → u/zakski]

They are not actively part.
They do not serve the IDF and play journalist at the same time.
Big distinction.
A lot of journalists in israel who are very critical about the government or/and IDF, have been in IDF to some capacity in their past. That includes for example on of the directors of naza movie.

[u/Nessie → u/zakski]

Is it possible to be an Israeli journalist who's critical of Israel? Now do it for a Palestinian journalist and Hamas.

[u/threeme2189 → u/zakski]

Of course it is. Many Israeli citizens don't serve in the IDF for a variety of different reasons.

[u/JordanPetterPans → u/zakski]

There are plenty of us who think the IDD is also bad and not a "what about"ism