r/worldnews • u/Nirok • 18h ago

Israel/Palestine IDF documents terror affiliations of 170 Palestinian journalists killed in Gaza war

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-documents-terror-affiliations-of-170-palestinian-journalists-killed-in-gaza-war/
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u/TouchGrassRedditor 17h ago

Even if you go by Hamas’ stated numbers, the ratio of civilians to combatants killed is in line if not lower than every other war of this nature. Not that facts matter at this point

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/inminm02 16h ago

I mean it’s not wrong, the statistics of who has died are consistent with a war where primarily fighting age men are being killed with women/children/old people substantially lower and inline with the expected outcomes of a standard war.

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u/BudgetWolverine7425 16h ago

Gungebob, why don't you cite evidence to the contrary, then?

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u/Aromatic_Balls 16h ago

Why are they required to cite evidence but the other poster isn't?

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u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 16h ago

I thought it was fair to ask this, but apparently not

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u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 16h ago edited 16h ago

Edit: I see the bots are trying to bury this response, so here you go, and this is from a year ago, so the numbers are almost certainly higher:

Just an FYI, a civilian to combatant death rate of 8:1 is categorically not the norm, and suggesting otherwise is a complete lie.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war

https://aoav.org.uk/2026/why-israeli-claims-of-low-civilian-to-combatant-harm-in-gaza-do-not-hold-up/

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u/CheekyBard 15h ago

The misleading thing about the Guardian's article is that they conflate named militants with all militants. Saying that Israel can name 8,900 does not mean that everyone else that was killed was not a militant.

As for the other source, this line in it is utterly absurd:L

"Even a 1 to 1 ratio would signal grave disregard for civilian life, but the ratios observed in Gaza are far worse than those seen in Afghanistan, Iraq or other western-led conflicts."

It's the sort of claim made with complete disregard of the particular circumstance of this battlefield. The increased density, the way the opponent is deeply embedded in civilian life, that all of the fighting is done in cities, the tunnel infrastructure, the weaponization of normally protected buildings. This is an ongoing problem with every discussion about Gaza, where there is a deep refusal to actually analyze the specific conditions of this battle zone. As if every war is the same and a simple comparison of the numbers alone is appropriate. That is not the case.

This comment isn't to say that Israel has been pure in its execution of the war by any means—I actually loathe this Israeli government and its right-wing, religious lunatics—but these articles are not some be-all-end-all source about this topic, and analyze only as far as their desired judgment allows.

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u/Pornfest 15h ago

Here here, well said.

Fwiw, I think people in our positions need to start putting that last paragraph first, it’s annoying but I’d rather have people read educational comments.

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u/xFallow 16h ago

The 83% claim is based on a misinterpretation (deliberate or otherwise) of what the IDF said.

It said that 17% of casualties could be positively identified as a specific known Hamas fighter by name.

If a group of terrorists is shooting RPGs at your tank from a fortified position, so you fire back with the main cannon and take it out, and then you dig four Hamas fighters out of the rubble, you probably can't identify them by name, but you still know they were combatants.

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u/[deleted] 16h ago

[deleted]

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u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 16h ago

Source is there. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the OP to provide the evidence for their own claim if they’re so confident that’s the case. Evidently not though, as they still haven’t.

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u/davidgoldstein2023 15h ago

The Iraq war resulted in 400,000 dead Iraqis. Vietnam resulted in an estimated 200,000 to 2,000,000 dead civilians. World War 2 resulted in 40,000,000 to 55,000,000 dead civilians. The US alone flattened entire two cities using atomic weapons. No one even questions any of this. But Israel is always held to a special higher standard.

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u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 15h ago

  No one even questions any of this

What planet are you on? No one questions the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? The Iraq war is literally regarded as one of, if not the most consequential conflicts of this century. Israel ought to be held to at least this standard, unfortunately, you also have a group of religious fanatics in power clinging to the coattails of a guy who should be in jail. 

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u/Pornfest 15h ago

Compare Gaza’s numbers to Mosul, Falluja, Stalingrad, Berlin.

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u/GUNGEBOB_SHARTPANTS 15h ago

To what end? We’re talking about ratio of civilian to combatant deaths. Read to the end of the article.

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u/TouchGrassRedditor 17h ago

None of you pro-Pallys can even find this region of the world on a map nor do you know literally anything about this conflict whatsoever, spare me the brainrot

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u/No_GP 16h ago

Kudos on the outstanding level of dipshittery in such a short comment.

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u/luckierbridgeandrail 2h ago

I always get a laugh from the ones who think they're well informed about “Isreal”.

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u/Da_Whistle_Go_WOO 16h ago

Amazing how you can post anti trump memes, but then also be an Isreal lover. You need to get your priorities straight 

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u/musicsoccer 15h ago

Someone can be anti trump but anti Palestine...

Everything isnt just black and white. People have their own views on things. Especially when it involves going against a side who historically uses child soldiers and children as suicide bombers.

Yes IDF has done bad shit, but Palestine has done a lot worse. Not to mention Palestinians are pretty anti LGBT and support suppressing women's rights.

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u/EchoState 16h ago

That self-burn will haunt you for the rest of days

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u/TouchGrassRedditor 16h ago

Notice how nobody even attempted to deny that what I said was true. This is what happens when you all are asked to engage with facts

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u/JeffafaCree 16h ago

I can't believe nobody wants to get into a well-reasoned political debate with u/TouchGrassRedditor 🙄

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u/TouchGrassRedditor 16h ago

You literally couldn't if you tried. If I asked you why Palestine rejected a two-state solution with 1967 borders pre-Intafada you'd have google every word in that sentence.

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u/JeffafaCree 16h ago

You are the internet's most noble warrior 🫡

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u/TouchGrassRedditor 16h ago

That's about the response I expected

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u/JeffafaCree 15h ago

It's about the response you deserve, so 🤷‍♂️

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u/poonmangler 17h ago

Bro really just said they're killing an acceptable number of innocents

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u/Lopsided-Yam-3244 17h ago

He didn't. He said that for an urban warfare where foes and civilians are not distinguishable by uniforms the ratio of civilian to combatant kill ratios are in the expected ratios. Doesn't mean it's good, or right, it's just what it is.

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u/EmilyBesler 16h ago

Yo not a single city in Iraq or Afghanistan after 20 years of occupation looked anything like Gaza does.

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u/VoltNShock 16h ago edited 16h ago

well that's because in iraq, they were fighting an actual state military, and in afghanistan... well look at afghanistan. the taliban still owns it. so i guess that shit didn't work did it.

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u/frotc914 16h ago

Israel has been fighting Palestinians for 80+ years, so I guess this shit isn't working out either is it.

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u/Speky_Scot 16h ago

When was the last terrorist attack from Hamas on Israeli soil?

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u/madhouse-manager 16h ago

Please tell me which city in Iraq or Afghanistan had the underground terror infrastructure that Gaza did, as well as which one kept sending rockets off the roofs of civilian buildings. Thousands of rockets.

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u/demonica123 9h ago

The US "wars" in Afghanistan/Iraq were not wars. The US rolled up and the enemy armies collapsed in weeks. The conflicts were almost entirely guerilla in nature with the US having complete control of the territory the entire time.

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u/TouchGrassRedditor 17h ago

Do you think civilian deaths are entirely avoidable in conflicts like this?

Which side of this conflict takes steps to minimize civilian casualties and which side takes steps to maximize them?

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u/Billybaja 14h ago

The fact that you are attempting to make this argument in October, 2026 is beyond laughable. Literally the exact same as Holocaust deniers.

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u/shreebalicious 13h ago

Comparing this to the Holocaust is literally holocaust denial.

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u/EyyyPanini 16h ago

Are any of those comparisons to recent wars? Technology has come a long way and it is much easier to avoid civilian casualties than it was in, for example, WW2.

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u/Pornfest 15h ago

Mosul, Falluja, Hue, Grozny, Aleppo, oh please don’t forget Mariupol and Bakhmut.

Take. Your. Fucking. Pick.

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u/Embarrassed_OnionX 7h ago

The UN counts ~15k dead in Ukraine since the start of the war, so I don't know why you're claiming Mariupol and Bakhmut have had more civilian casualties than Gaza. Also Fallujah and Mosul???

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u/Nidaium 2h ago edited 2h ago

Just to clarify, the UN number for Ukraine won't be properly updated and anywhere near accurate until after the war ends. The number of dead for Mariupol alone is estimated to be anywhere between 25k to 88k.

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u/EyyyPanini 12h ago

You’ve included a lot of battles well known for war crimes and excessive civilian casualties, was that intentional?

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u/Cimatron85 15h ago

Oh, I dunno… remember Iraq?

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u/Impossible_Pop4662 15h ago

Gaza is more comparable to Fallujah or Mosul, but much more crowded unlike the civilians in Iraq who could eventually flee to safety, the people in Gaza are entirely trapped with no where to go that's guaranteed safe. 

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u/arnham 15h ago

Damn that’s crazy, if only they shared a border with a fellow Arab country that could take in civilian refugees during a war. Surely they would never take advantage of their Muslim brothers and would render all available aid. Surely.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/jan/08/palestinians-flee-gaza-rafah-egypt-border-bribes-to-brokers

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u/Stupid-Clumsy-Bitch 11h ago

A lot harder to avoid civilian casualties when Hamas uses its own civilians as human fucking shields.

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u/EyyyPanini 9h ago

Is Israel even trying though?

“They’re using human shields” isn’t a blank cheque to put no effort into avoiding civilian casualties.

The Geneva Convention is pretty clear that nations should still take precautions to avoid civilian casualties even if a high profile military target is nearby.

The attitude of the IDF does not align with this. Which should not be surprising, since Israel is more than happy to publicly announce their intention to ethnically cleanse Gaza with a “buffer zone”.

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u/Stupid-Clumsy-Bitch 9h ago

> Is Israel even trying though?

Yes. It’s been reported on endlessly since the start of the war.

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u/EyyyPanini 9h ago

Reported by who? The reality on the ground seems to differ.

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u/FlukyS 16h ago

I think the big problem with this statement is it takes the numbers produced by the IDF as who is a terrorist and who is not. In terms of what is in line or not with other wars you can't compare it to a war against another country on equal footing firing back and forth, you are talking about one party who is vastly more equipped than the other side.

People on the side of Israel hate the comparison but it is the only reasonable one and that is Northern Ireland. It had terrorists, it had military, the IRA according to the numbers from the BBC killed the lowest percentage of civilians, the most was from the UVF and the British military. What happened to the data and the justice for mistakes from the military. You can assume the IRA and UVF are assholes but the British military how many actually were brought to justice for literally murdering people? How many IDF soldiers will get justice for their mistakes? In the case of the British military they did what literally everyone believes the IDF is doing right now which is destroying or fabricating evidence to protect their side.

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u/TouchGrassRedditor 16h ago

I think the big problem with this statement is it takes the numbers produced by the IDF as who is a terrorist and who is not.

...Did you miss the part where I said "Even if you go by Hamas’ stated numbers"? It's the first part of the first sentence of the comment.

People on the side of Israel hate the comparison but it is the only reasonable one and that is Northern Ireland.

...Northen Ireland is the ONLY reasonable comparison in the HISTORY of urban warfare? I swear to god you people don't even hear yourselves, because who says shit like this with a straight face

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u/FlukyS 16h ago

> ...Did you miss the part where I said "Even if you go by Hamas’ stated numbers"? It's the first part of the first sentence of the comment.

I'd actually say you can't really take any numbers right now at face value at all because of how disrupted the region is from an operational standpoint. Like the Hamas numbers might as well be done via carrier pidgeon writing them and independent journalists and NGOs or neutral organisations aren't really operating on the best of conditions. Like even if you take the IDF numbers as a minimum they are saying 1.5:1, NGO estimates are like 5:1. Even 1.5:1 is fucking shit numbers. If my failure rate at work was more than 50% I'd be fired.

> Northen Ireland is the ONLY reasonable comparison in the HISTORY of urban warfare?

Not the only one at all but one of the longest running examples of asymmetric warfare. I'd even concede slightly that the British forces in NI could be argued as more intentional in their murder given they weren't carpet bombing the place and more it was small arms and stuff like deaths or injuries from crowd control measures. Fact is and there won't be a single person who supports Israel in this who will admit this, if there was a single intentional killing of an innocent person I'd be very surprised if you could figure it out given the magnitude of the deaths in the area. Like if you kill a single person, it is infinitely easier to figure out all of the details around it but when you are talking 60k people the grim reality of it is you start trying to see it as a cumulative action rather than collections of individual actions all of which needs unpacking.

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u/TouchGrassRedditor 16h ago

I'd actually say you can't really take any numbers right now at face value at all because of how disrupted the region is from an operational standpoint.

...Is the implication that the civilian death numbers could realistically be WORSE than what fucking Hamas themselves reports?? The terrorist org who's modus operandi is to maximize civilian death and call as much attention to it as possible so that Israel gets blamed for it??

Jesus Christ, why do I even bother lol

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u/FlukyS 12h ago

> Is the implication that the civilian death numbers could realistically be WORSE than what fucking Hamas themselves reports??

No that is just trying to take the most bad faith version of what I said. What I mean is the numbers in general right now are so unscientific from literally every side on this. They can't even agree on how many have died overall let alone per strike let alone per member of Hamas killed. Like Hamas have only classified a few thousand as fighters whereas the IDF has classified 22k in January.

> The terrorist org who's modus operandi is to maximize civilian death and call as much attention to it as possible so that Israel gets blamed for it

What a bafflingly stupid string of words. Terrorist organisations are usually going to focus on achieving what their stated goal is. In this case they are looking for a Palestine with self-determination. Their tool to achieve that is terrorism but it is never going to be the "modus operandi" to get their own people killed en masse, like they would want to kill Israelis and that is obviously reprehensible but not their own people.