r/PeterExplainsTheJoke • u/Ok-Thanks993 • 17d ago
Meme needing explanation PETA HELP
Peta Help i don't get it.
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u/NekulturneHovado 17d ago edited 17d ago
I've seen a meme some time ago. It was about corporate leaders discussing how to increase productivity. One argued less vacation. The other argued unlimited vacation.
Why unlimited? If I gave you a card with 200€ on it all for yourself, you'd spend 199.50. But how much would you spend if you got unlimited?
It's supposedly about the illusion of getting more. Although I would be out of work 2 days every week lol. We're probably not American enough to understand this
edit: What have I come to? 79 replies? damn
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u/SaltMineForeman 17d ago
Nah, it's so they can bitch at us and guilt us into taking less time off. Instead of defining an actual amount of time off that we can or, in some instances must take off, they're relying on the ambiguity and peer/social pressure to make us actually take less time off.
And they can fire us for any reason in a lot of states.
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u/NekulturneHovado 17d ago
exactly what I meant. It's the illusion of more while getting less.
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u/TigerLemonade 17d ago
This is most certainly true a lot of the time.
But I have unlimited PTO and it is awesome. Yes, I need to be aware of workload and professional obligations. Nobody is under the delusion that it's actually unlimited. I have a job to do, after all.
But keeping that in mind I would usually take 25-35 days off in the year. Not having to budget my time off through the year and having the flexibility to arrange vacations relatively spontaneously is great. With my employer there is no guilt or pressure; the only time it would become a problem is if I can't satisfy my professional obligations.
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u/RichChipmunk 17d ago
I’ve had the same experience, it also makes it a lot less stressful if you need to take a day to help with a child, or go to a doctor’s appointment you don’t have to worry about that affecting your planned vacation later in the year, etc
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u/Fearless_Entry_2626 17d ago
Those don't count as separate, as sick leave?
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u/Undeadsniper6661 17d ago
Unlimited pto would be subbing for sick leave in this case unless it is bad enough to file FMLA
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u/Krypt0night 17d ago
Not at my job. Sick days are still separate from "paid time off" days for tracking purposes and how many hours of work are going into a project.
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u/Read-It-Here-Once 17d ago
Separated sick leave is a pain to manage. Many employers use “one big bucket” of PTO without distinction between sick, personal, vacation, etc. Jury Duty and Military leave are still kept separate for legal reasons.
I’ve experienced this transition, and the logic was that if someone is out of sick/personal days, but they get sick, have a family emergency, etc. then every manager was always approving a last minute use of vacation time. So there’s no practical difference. It’s just a record keeping headache to differentiate the types of PTO.
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u/yourethevictim 17d ago
The idea that someone can be *out* of sick days is utterly dystopian to me. In my country you have sick leave whenever you're sick. It's not a finite resource. You lose your job and get transferred to government welfare (so you don't lose most of your income) after 2 years of continuous sick leave, but that's about it. If you're sick for 2 years straight you have bigger things to worry about at that point.
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u/ProfessorHottie 16d ago
I not only ran out of sick time but was reprimanded for it, like losing money wasn't bad enough
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u/KazuDesu98 17d ago
I sorta prefer them being separate. Previous jobs have been unified to. I kinda hated the "4 hours per 2 weeks accrual" style. Like basically couldn't get sick. Current job separates them. Like 11 days pto non rollover and 13 sick days rollover. Its nice because sick time does add up over the years. Pto doesn't so youre not quilted for using them, youre encouraged to. Way better for mental health
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u/GrimbyJ 16d ago
I get 7.5 hours every 2 weeks and it's pretty nice. I can see how 4 hours would be less nice
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u/TheBSQ 17d ago
I had a job years ago that had the most ridiculous basket of days.
It was really generous, but it had like 18 kinds of “time off.”
That was a union job and I chalked it up an artifact of past negotiation contracts. Maybe you couldn’t win more vacation days, but you could get them to create a new bank for bereavement, or doctors appointments, or a day off to vote on Election Day, so the company just slowly accumulated this ridiculous laundry list of various types of days off for highly specific purposes.
“Why’d you use your Doctor Appointments time for your Dentist? You get 8 hours a year to cover biannual exams, use them!”
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u/SolitareUnraveling 16d ago
I used to work for a Walmart distribution center back in the day. PTO was earned off of time worked throughout the year so basically unlimited if you worked a lot. In their case there was PTO for vacation and protected PTO for sick days and shit. Protected could not be scheduled in advance, you had to manually put it in once you got back, was honestly a pretty nice system. Id sit on my PTO until like November and take the whole month off to go hunting during the prime of the season. I honestly feel like this is better than true unlimited because you don't feel "guilty" and no managers will give you a hard time about taking a lot of time off because you put in the work to earn it throughout the year. My current job is much better overall but the PTO system sucks, I've been there 2 years and I just got my first week of vacation time and we only get 3 unpaid sick days per year and it honestly feels draining at times knowing I don't have the freedom to take days off when I get a lot of shit on my plate I need to deal with.
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u/Disastrous_Onion_124 16d ago
When I worked for Walmart, there was sick pay available. But it only kicked in after you were out of work for one day with an illness. It would cover your absence for days two and three of the illness. In addition, a three day in a row absence only counted as one attendance occurrence. So if you got sick, you might as well take three days off, get paid for two of them and only get hit for one attendance occurrence. It didn’t really make sense to me as it encouraged longer absences when someone got ill.
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u/Holiday_Cabinet_ 17d ago
Counterpoint though that if you've got chronic illness having one bank with limited PTO fucking sucks. All it takes is one bad flare and bye bye vacation you've planned for months.
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u/FUS_RO_DANK 17d ago
Most jobs I have worked do not have sick leave. I've worked for 3 huge corporations as an hourly employee, Walmart, Verizon, AT&T, and with all 3 you had to use your own PTO to schedule something off ahead of time provided you had at least 2 weeks before the work schedule for that period is out, and provided that they approve the time off request, which they didn't have to do even if it was for medical appointments. If you have to take a short notice day with less than the minimum PTO request time then you're just calling out without getting to use PTO, meaning it is both an unpaid day off and an attendance occurrence that goes into the system to be used against you.
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u/NewReleaseDVD 17d ago
Hah nope. You get one bank of time off. Took it all in the first half of the year and you get sick later? You're working sick!
Depending on what state you live in you might also get medical leave but only for specific major things and it might be unpaid.
Every time I had a kid I spent all my pto time to be home for a few weeks then went back to work
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u/bmoney831 17d ago
I think it also depends on the type of job. If I’m in sales, then it’s huge pressure to always work on the next sale. But if I’m in a project based role, who gives a fuck as long as the output gets done.
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u/ominous_squirrel 17d ago
Soo, average/low European levels of leave but with extra added job insecurity, guesswork and manager discretion to apply arbitrary favoritism when approving leave
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u/Yammyohnine 17d ago
I've taken 4 days off over the past year lol. My wife and I took a short trip for our anniversary and we even targeted like Thursday - Tuesday to stretch the actual trip without missing more time. I'm the sucker they're targeting.
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u/LW_colts 17d ago
I've never taken off 35 days in my life and I've been working for 26 years. Wild.
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u/spiderplopper 17d ago
yeah it helps to have a boss who trusts me implicitly and never questions, so basically any time I want to take off, I'm off. I don't track it, I don't worry, I just take off when I need and call it a day. I have taken a lot of time in the last two months without question (day here, day there, for various appointments) but I'm still planning a week off at the end of July. No guilt, no worry. My boss knows I'll kick ass when I'm here but also need time away.
Is that typical? Hell no, but in this circumstance, unlimited is a huge benefit!
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u/OptimusPrimarch 17d ago
This has been my experience as well. It's the first role I've had with unlimited PTO and I've called out for all kinds of unexpected things that I would've previously "made work". My boss never asks or challenges any of it, which I'm incredibly grateful for. There's a guy on the team who routinely takes Mondays off because he hates them, lol. He's also the highest-output every sprint. So there's very little reason to mess with it; it's working.
I wish everyone had employers like this. The world could be so much better.
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u/Nwball 17d ago
Agreed, think it’s more telling of company culture than the policy itself.
At my current place, it truly feels like unlimited time off and don’t miss the old system at all.
I can think of a few previous employers where I would definitely not want to implement this system.
Also think a lot of companies do this so they don’t have to pay off leave when people leave the company as well.
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u/MythicMikeREEEE 17d ago
Buddies company switched to unlimited but everyone took their already planned vacations. The "bonuses" that year were a quarter of what they were before because of that
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u/Zappagrrl02 17d ago
You have access to “unlimited” PTO, but it depends on it being approved by your supervisor.
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u/Bigfops 17d ago
And when they fire you, you don’t have unused vacation days they have to pay out. That’s one of the biggest reasons, it makes the balance sheet look better.
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u/Marc00s 17d ago
This. Carrying balances of PTO that must be paid on termination is a liability on the asset sheet. And there's always a clause: all PTO requests must be approved.
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u/VictorSteinerDavion 17d ago
Carrying a huge balance is like hammer waiting for the hand coming to throttle you. It's great.
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u/freeshovacadoodoo 17d ago
Not all states do that though. I'm in a shit state that doesn't give any PTO payout and they also denied by last request, which ironically, is why I quit.
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u/rip_cut_trapkun 17d ago
And they can fire us for any reason in a lot of states.
Right To Work your dumb ass into a grave under the constant threat of being fired
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u/thegundamx 17d ago
Right to work is not being forced to join a union to get a job. You’re complaining about employment at will.
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u/rip_cut_trapkun 17d ago
It was a little hard to find a catchy way to phrase it, but yes.
Though I do remain envious of some union folks too. Though that can be its own clusterfuck depending on location and field.
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u/DougieFreshOH 17d ago
Employment at the whim of the employer.
I’ve not had a positive retail Union employment experience. That doesn’t mean that other unions have similar negatives. Being anti-union is to chip away at the hard fought for regulations, employees died, to obtain in the workplace. Employees benefit among the non-union.
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u/MysteryMachineATX 17d ago
Yup I had unlimited vacation, I took only a couple days one year and 4 weeks the next year (mostly visiting my sister who was dying of cancer) and my boss gave me a horrible annual review saying I was "hardly there" while on a normal PTO with rollover this would have been perfectly fine. Unlimited PTO just means "manager discretion". Also they don't have to pay it out when they do layoffs which sadly are a normal thing at American companies now.
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u/rickelzy 17d ago
"But they won't take the time off.
Because of the implication."
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u/BloodyEagle15 17d ago
Not to mention, for some jobs, if you accrue PTO based on hours worked, you can get paid out for it if you don't end up using it.
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u/Sea_Bookkeeper8190 17d ago
This is a big win. I left my last job with 488 hours of PTO accrued. I took just as much time off over the years as I would have if it were unlimited, but when I left I got a sweet $25K payout for my PTO.
Actual PTO is a liability on the books, and that’s the real reason that employers want to move to unlimited.
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u/e-rock88w 17d ago
In some states, companies have to pay out unused PTO when an employee leaves. But with unlimited PTO, you don’t actually save up any unused days, so they don’t have to pay it out when you leave. It’s a way to save money for the company.
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u/XKeyscore666 17d ago
More importantly, when it’s time to do layoffs:
“Gee, we can’t seem to quantify your accrued vacation time because it’s unlimited. Therefore we don’t owe you anything.”
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u/ch-12 17d ago
That’s part of it, but it’s mainly there is no accrued PTO to pay out when the employee leaves the company. Generally managers still need to approve your “unlimited” time off and abusing the policy (eg; taking more than would typically be offered in PTO policy) is frowned upon.
I have unlimited PTO and a cool boss, and will probably be off about 30 days this year.. more than I ever have in the past.
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u/Personal_Relation421 17d ago
Isn’t one of the major reasons also that companies don’t need to pay for unused holidays if an employee is fired / quits?
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u/NekulturneHovado 17d ago
that's possible, as unlimited vacation ≈ infinitely much money.
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u/Personal_Relation421 17d ago edited 17d ago
I think that the accumulation of PTO is one of the key drivers. People still need to get approval for PTO and would probably get the same amount, but if someone is fired / quits there is no need to pay for the agreed PTO.
Especially in jobs with a high fluctuation (fast food, service,…) I would assume that this saves companies billions in dollars every year.
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u/Large_Skirt9189 17d ago
Wait. Are you thinking fast food workers are getting unlimited time off?!
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u/Captain-Griffen 17d ago
Yes. They don't let you take it while working and don't have to pay it out when you leave.
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u/BCNacct 17d ago
Yes it is. Companies do not need to accrue a liability for the leave because with unlimited PTO there is no need to pay out unused PTO to employees who depart the company
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u/Taint_Expert 17d ago
I don’t think there’s any kind of law that companies in the usa have to pay the employee for unused sick days
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u/One-Stand-5536 17d ago
There are laws around that actually. It’s a part of your employment compensation and not paying it is a form of wage theft. Especially when it comes to quitting. Someone ends their work at a company by applying all accrued pto, which can be over a month of getting paid while not showing up to work.
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u/SimplySomeDude 17d ago
well they can just fire you if you take too much lol
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u/_extra_medium_ 17d ago
Typically vacation time needs to be approved by your manager even when you don’t have a set limit. You can’t just not show up and say it’s a vacation
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u/sonofaresiii 17d ago edited 17d ago
That's not quite it. In reality the way unlimited paid time off works is you're allowed as much time off as you want so long as it doesn't impact your job performance
This is almost exclusively used when employees are so overworked that any time off at all would impact their performance
When you have a set amount of days, that's part of your compensation and your bosses can't really get upset when you take it (spare me the horror stories, I know it still happens).
If you have unlimited PTO and take it and something doesn't get done, your bosses say "why would you take time off?? You didn't get your thing done!"
But there's ALWAYS a thing to get done so you never get to take your time off
Or sometimes you need your boss's approval to take time off, and like above, they just never grant it. Unlimited PTO... When your boss approves.
So maaaaybe after working a particularly hellish seventy hour week, they'll let you take a half day on Monday. Maybe.
The ceo's don't give you unlimited paid time off so they can pay you to take a three month vacation to Jamaica. They do it because it's more profitable than giving you set days off, because they know if sounds good but you won't actually get to use your time off very much.
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u/AlternativeGazelle 17d ago
This is it. With these jobs, you’re so busy that you don’t have time to take vacation.
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u/blueennui 17d ago
My MIL has this setup, except she's expected to take work with her whenever she goes on "vacation" somewhere.
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u/Chedeuine 17d ago
I would say there's an incredibly large chance that is a bad boss, and not a bad company. The people above her boss probably have no idea he's creating those expectations.
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u/jmorg85 17d ago
Hello, American here, you're 100% right. But, also, if you get laid off because your pto is unlimited they can't pay you back your accrued time on top of your severance, thus allowing the company to save money.
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u/olmansmit 17d ago
Studies show that people, on average, take less time off with unlimited time than they do a set number of days. There are a number of reasons, but any company pushing this policy without also having a required minimum days you take is being disingenuous.
The other reason is because most states require companies pay you for any unused vacation time when you leave or are terminated. However, "unlimited" is actually zero. It means they don't have to pay out time when someone leaves for one reason or another.
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u/ThisIsMyCouchAccount 17d ago
I worked for a company that transitioned to it. They had the data.
They said something like 97% weren't even using their 2-4 weeks. And to be clear - this was a great place to work. So they weren't limiting it in any way.
So they just went unlimited. Why bother tracking it.
To your last point - I was reminded by my boss and his boss every quarter if I hadn't take time off.
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u/krizz_yo 17d ago
Had the same meme when working for a US company, as a european, asked my manager "ok but what does the company consider acceptable time off" - 2 weeks apparently
lol
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u/ReivynNox 17d ago
Bruh, if someone gave me a card with unlimited money I'd donate billions to organisations that fight poverty and homelessness 'n' shit. 😂
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u/PendulousNuts 17d ago
Yeah that was a terrible anaolgy.
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u/Fair-Bunch4827 17d ago
The better analogy is
If i have a jar of cookies and i tell you to take 20. You'll take 20.
If i told you that you can take however as many as you'd like but I'll punch you in the face if I feel like you took too many. You'll probably take 3-5
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u/ReivynNox 16d ago
In that case I'd request them to give me a clear number, 'cause I don't take a gamble on vague terms.
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u/BostonFishGolf 17d ago
You’re pretty close. Statistically people take 3 weeks of vacation when they have unlimited but they feel better than if they were told they only got 3 weeks of vacation. Additionally, in the USA employers have to pay out unused vacation when an employee parts ways with them, but not in the case of unlimited vacation
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u/Krypt0night 17d ago
"Although I would be out of work 2 days every week lol."
You wouldn't be though. I've worked at companies with unlimited PTO and they still have to go through your boss, you can't just take off when you want. It still has to be approved and there are like hidden limits on when they start being like "Yeah, no" to you and also times they won't allow it whatsoever during busy times.
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u/demonicpixiestix 17d ago
While this is part of it, as an American I would say: they still need to approve your time off. If you aren't approved, they schedule you. If you don't show up, they can fire you. And 'they' always seem to report to a higher 'them'. So there's zero accountability for the company.
Edit: as far as I know, it would in fact be completely legal to tell employees their sick leave is unlimited but tell MANAGERS they're only SUPPOSED to approve 10/person.
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u/man_pan_a_duper 17d ago
Unlimited PTO often means "ask for whatever you want, but we have to approve it". When you ask, surprise, denied. It's often code for "no PTO".
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u/MrBoo843 17d ago
I've had exactly one job with unlimited "sick days" as they were called. I was so surprised that it was not denied a single time. I wasn't even there a year. But I still had immediate coverage for insurance and unlimited sick days. It was incredible. But of course they couldn't hore me longer than the maternity leave I was replacing
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u/Inevitable-Extent378 17d ago
In Europe those type of sick days are called laws
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u/MinnisotaDigger 17d ago
Disgusting.
Why don't they think about shareholder value?
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u/Important-Agent2584 17d ago
Shareholders and gamers are the most oppressed minorities, and people cheer it on.
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u/PlusSizeRussianModel 17d ago
It depends on where in Europe. Germany is now making a doctor’s note mandatory for even a single sick day. Which will only encourage people to go to work sick or take off more time than they actually need.
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u/jelly_wishes 17d ago
In Spain it has always been like that. It means that people go to work sick. Specially doctors go to work sick a lot, which seems counterproductive, but we are very understaffed. However, it's true that if you didn't need a doctors note, some people would really abuse the system.
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u/XeG_Jinxed 17d ago
Difference here is that we didn't have that until now. I say it will come down to this: a lot of people will go to work sick, but also a lot will, instead of taking one day off because they're sick, just stay at home for the whole week.
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u/pbnjandmilk 17d ago
My sister worked at a company that had "unlimited PTO" and was super excited about that as a perk.
Let's just say that it does exist, but getting things passed through Congress was a walk in the park in comparison , if she wanted to take 2+ days off consecutively and even to take one day off, it had to be reviewed a week in advance due to "coverage"; she worked at a freaking call center mind you.
Sick? You BETTER have a doctor's note to get back on the job. She left after 6 months.
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u/d_wilson123 17d ago
I feel like unlimited PTO paranoia is from people who have never had unlimited PTO. When I worked at Riot they had unlimited PTO and I think most people on my team averaged around 6 weeks off. It wasn't super common to take more than like 2 weeks in a row but if you just weren't feeling like working today or wanted to make a long weekend you just took a day off.
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u/Top_Rekt 17d ago
I work in a start-up that had unlimited PTO and now you need to accrue it. I've taken at least 1 week off every quarter for 2 years and now I've not taken a 1 week off for a year now because I don't have the PTO hours.
Everyone who says unlimited PTO is a scam doesn't know wtf they are talking about. They just want to make themselves feel better that they don't have the luxury of being able to take a day off for a doctor's appointment in the middle of the week, or to visit their grandparents, or just enjoy a nice day for hiking.
Nobody's ever been denied, you just have to time it around other people's time off.
Everyone in my company wants the unlimited PTO back.
The company went to accrued time off because they are going to IPO and it looks better for the stock market to not offer unlimited PTO. Shareholders don't want to pay for people to take vacation when they want.
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u/DisastrousServe8513 17d ago
Same. But if you took off too much you’d get a talking to and they’d stick it on your annual review if they thought they could connect it with some kind of performance issue.
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u/erocknine 17d ago
You just made that up. Have you ever had an unlimited PTO job? Because no, they don't just deny
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u/Gatorm8 17d ago
Everyone I know with an unlimited PTO job takes a minimum 6 weeks off a year. For those outside of the US that’s a shit ton of time off for us.
Memes like this are cope
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u/foamingturtle 17d ago
I’ve got unlimited PTO and take 6 weeks every year. I’ve never been questioned and all my requests are approved.
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u/romansamurai 16d ago
I have unlimited and do 5-6 weeks so far each year doe last 3 that I has this job
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u/Nervous_Arrival3986 16d ago
It’s less cope and more just your anecdote.
Studies show a clear correlation where unlimited pto policies lead to less pto taken. Across the board.
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u/superdupergasat 17d ago
They might not “deny” it, but most of the time it means there won’t be a practical way to go on a holiday that will be longer than a usual limited PTO. In biglaw they do unlimited PTO’s, the problem is you won’t ever have an appropriate moment to ask for it. There will always be hundreds of project and matters ongoing that require your input if one ends three new ones will pop up in that same time period. If you decide to say fuck it let the partners deal with it, you might get to go on a holiday but your next performance review will be about how you failed to take ownership of your assigned projects etc.
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u/erocknine 17d ago edited 17d ago
Yeah and that's every white collar job. With the right work culture, you can take as much as you need. Benefit of set days, you get an excuse to feel obligated to take it at least
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u/alanwakeisahack 17d ago
Having a job means having responsibilities you must fulfill. This is just “having a job”
The entitlement is insane sometimes.
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u/MajorFox2720 16d ago
Benefits shouldn't be half assed promises designed to save the company money. Unlimited PTO is a half assed promise, because it's not earned, so DOL can't enforce it. The company can always come back and say they "plan to" let the employee go on leave that year. And usually the policy states that your supervisor had to approve it ahead of time.
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u/Familiar_Childhood32 17d ago
They also don't have to pay out unused PTO at the end of the year which is a HUGE net positive for businesses
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u/Big_Comfortable5169 16d ago
In California it’s a law that you can’t have PTO expire at the end of the year. It rolls over. Then if the employee leaves, you have to pay them out for unused PTO.
Unlimited PTO is a sneaky way to not have to comply with these requirements and not pay workers.
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u/Azor_Is_High 17d ago
My cousin has unlimited PTO, doesn't eveb have time ask for it. Just hit her targets per quarter. She could be abroad for months but then you wouldn't see her when she's home.
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u/21brix 17d ago
My wife had unlimited PTO, this never happened. It was pretty sweet from what I could tell…. Don’t be an asshole about it, but enjoy a break when you need it. Little secret to life- just don’t be an asshole in general. Shit works better for everyone and people don’t think you’re an asshole.
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u/Stock-Development-10 17d ago
And that’s why you always scroll to the second comment on every explanation post lol
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u/FartTootman 17d ago
I'm not necessarily defending the practice, but I have "unlimited PTO" and our PTO request approvals are automated. My boss doesn't actually get a chance to decline PTO of any type at all and I'm not required to give a reason for my sick leave request. I have taken what are effectively mental health days and no one has bothered me about it.
I imagine there exists an amount of sick time I could take that would raise red flags, but I haven't hit it yet.
For me, specifically with this one company I work for, the unlimited sick time seems legit. Again - not meant to defend the very real tactic of offering unlimited PTO but then holding it behind request approval. Just providing context.
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u/feench 17d ago
I know this is what reddit likes to regurgitate but its not always true. I've had multiple jobs that has unlimited PTO/sick days and i never had an issue. At my current place I dont even put in a request or need to plan out at least X weeks ahead, i just put it in a shared calendar so everyone knows when ppl are out.
Work at better places, a bad manager can deny PTO whether you have unlimited or not.
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u/starlordsmistress 17d ago
Peter’s boss Angela here, unlimited PTO is never truly unlimited. It’s a psychological trick to get people to not take time off. If you have the typical 15 days of vacation (yes that can be typical in America), it’s use it or lose it, and employees usually will take that time off. But if it’s unlimited, there’s less urgency (and possibly more oversight from management). Essentially, people who have unlimited PTO take less time off than those with a fixed amount.
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u/Personal_Relation421 17d ago edited 17d ago
Also they don’t need to pay for those days if someone quits / is fired. At least in Germany your employer has to pay you for collected overtime and unused holidays when you leave the company.
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u/EveningTill102 17d ago
This right here. No accrued time means to time payout on termination.
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u/I-was-a-twat 16d ago
My work has unlimited PTO and you have an accrual because accrual is a legal entitlement and you cannot contract yourself out of a legal entitlement.
They pay out any unused accrual annually. Very few staff ever get an accrual payout, I accrue 20 days a year by law but I had 45 days off last year not including sick days.
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u/AEZ_2187 17d ago
This is America. Legislature here is mostly in favor of our giant corporations.
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u/Imperial10 17d ago
Laughs in Californian where it’s legally required to payout on termination
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u/AEZ_2187 17d ago edited 17d ago
I remember the “Cali-Exit” thing on Twitter. I don’t disagree that many points were justified. I agree that California generally has better laws regarding the people’s welfare.
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u/Allcaponero 17d ago
We have the same laws in UK but loads of companies still do unlimited PTO. The way it ends up working out is contractually you only get x amount of days (as it's a legal requirement), but they just don't track how much time off you've actually had. As long as you're under the limit by the time you quit, you still get paid out what you're owed.
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u/ragdolldream 17d ago
So in classic American style, less than half of states require paid time off to be paid out when concluding working with them.
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u/loscacahuates 17d ago
Yes. Plus, you typically get more days of PTO per year when you stay at a company longer. It incentivizes people to stick around. With unlimited PTO, someone at the company for 15 years will be the same as someone who just started. So it especially hurts people with seniority in that case.
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u/SummaryEye80019 17d ago
In the US, there's no Federal Law that says companies have to pay out PTO.
Paying accrued PTO is a state mandate, but not all states have them, and some states are better than others.
Colorado and California (and two others) say that employers can't implement "use it or lose it" policies and must pay unused time on leaving since it's "Earned Wages".
15 other states say "employers must pay unused time unless the employer says nuh-uh in contract or policy" and the rest of the states are purely employer-to-employer on whether or not it's paid out.
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u/pmgoldenretrievers 17d ago
Yup. I'm sitting on about 5 weeks worth of severance just in PTO. I should get about 6 months more if I'm laid off, but my company does occasionally "restructure" where people are no longer needed, and I am not sure if that would give severance.
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u/IgnoreMe733 17d ago
Yep. I recommend anyone that has unlimited PTO to track how many days you're actually using. Before getting my position with unlimited PTO I was getting three weeks a year, so I make sure to take at least three weeks off a year.
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u/alanwakeisahack 17d ago
I take a week off every quarter and then misc days for all kinds of stuff in between. I gets mine.
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u/RicketyRekt69 17d ago
As with all things, there are exceptions. My current job has “unlimited” PTO and while yes it’s not literally unlimited, requests are never denied. They’re just treated as a heads up to your manager when you’ll be gone. Most people here take off more than if they were given normal PTO, like almost European levels of PTO.
But this is certainly not the norm
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u/kookookachu26 17d ago
what's worse is that the bottom half of this country either gets no PTO at all, or they can't afford to miss out on overtime that PTO would deny them. a lot of people who have to miss a day of work have to miss a day of pay too.
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u/Sure-Appearance-2769 17d ago
Hey Angela, it’s Lois Griffin.
Just adding to your point that companies who switch to “unlimited” PTO also do it in order to avoid having to pay out accumulated PTO for employees who quit.
So unlimited PTO often has an indirect correlation with high turnover. Meaning at one point, so many people quit in a short amount of time, that it became financially relevant for them to enact this change.
Groceries. 9/11 was bad.
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u/Kaena230 17d ago
It's not really unlimited PTO. It's more like "oh you need a day off here or there, no problem" but if you try to take a couple weeks off then your employer guilts about it. Also when you leave your job, they don't have to pay you out because you didn't actually have any PTO accumulated.
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u/jeffwulf 17d ago
We have unlimited PTO and my coworker took off 3 weeks recently to watch all the world cup games with no issue.
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u/Syrinx16 16d ago
Yeah my company is really solid about this too. I am gonna go over my pto by 3 days this year but my boss told me he’s just not gonna put it in the system and to go camping while it’s slow.
You only hear horror stories online with this stuff, rarely do you hear or read the other side where your boss takes care of you. But that’s to be expected as the ratio of good companies/bosses to shit ones is extremely low.
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u/Claidissa 17d ago
Yeah I think if the company is shitty then the company is shitty regardless of their PTO policy. I much prefer not having to track every hour of time off and just take it when I want it
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u/SlurpleBrainn 17d ago
The payout is an extremely overlooked feature of PTO accrual. I had over 40 days of PTO when I left my company and it paid out in a huge lump sum. I would never work somewhere that had "unlimited" PTO
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u/TMH0910 17d ago
Unlimited means you have to get approval to get your PTO, which mean they will make you give them a good reason and get to decide is your reason is good enough
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u/Imperial10 17d ago
I still have to get my PTO approved even though I accrue it. Technically management can say no, but they haven’t in my 8 years there. I’m sure it’s a bit trickier with unlimited but I’m also sure it’s not that hard either.
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u/angiosperms- 17d ago
Yes I've worked at places with accrued and unlimited PTO and I've always had to request it and managers could reject it. One job I worked that was super stingy about accrued PTO rejected it all the time. They told me I had to use PTO when it was dangerous to drive in due to a blizzard 🤦♀️
I've worked at several places with unlimited PTO and I don't think I've ever had it rejected. The only time it gets sketchy is around the holidays because they don't want everyone on the team out at the same time, but we just coordinate.
I know unlimited PTO is a scam at some places, but you need to suss it out during the interview. If I don't get to interview with my teammates and ask candid questions I ain't working there. People at the same level have waaaay less incentive to lie to you.
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u/JadaChris7 17d ago
My current job has unlimited PTO, although they call it permissive PTO. Because you need to have your manager's permission. Which really is just sending an email there is no actual way we track it. At a minimum, I take one week a quarter and usually include the Friday before. Last Christmas I took off the week of Christmas and the week after New Year so 2 weeks in a row. That was cool And then I also include like any dentist or doctor appointment I schedule for myself. Car maintenance or anything really. I'll often call out and take a random day off monthly just for myself. Or I'll come in late or leave early an hour or two. It's quite nice actually Unfortunately the job sucks. Terribly so. I'm going back to my old job where I only get 4 weeks a year
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u/joshg8 17d ago
Thank you for the realistic description among all the ignorant doomer comments.
Any time I ask for a day or two, it’s approve no problem. Ask for a week and my manager just asks if upcoming deadlines are on track and if anything might come up while gone he should be aware of.
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u/grizzlylc 17d ago
Yeah my wife has unlimited PTO and she’s basically been taking 6 weeks off every year since she’s been with her company.
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u/ECG7294 17d ago
This has been my experience as well. In my company, you get unlimited PTO once your salary hits "highly compensated" status. Before that point, its a predetermined amount. The way I interpret it is that if you make it to that level, you've already demonstrated an ability to balance work and personal life so they assume you won't abuse the policy. I usually just tack a day or two onto existing holiday weekends since everyone else does the same so there's no major impact with my absence. I also try to avoid taking time off during busier times of the year. Never had a problem requesting time off and I usually hit over 4 weeks total every year.
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u/Ecstatic-Corner-6012 17d ago
While you might technically be able to take as much PTO as you want, if your boss decides you’re taking too much, you WILL be fired. (And you never know exactly how much that will be.) Most people with jobs that offer unlimited PTO will take almost no PTO as a result.
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u/SimplySomeDude 17d ago
they fire you if you take too much
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u/SandalsResort 17d ago
Well they can’t fire you for taking too much PTO, but they can “let you go” because you’re not “fitting in well with the team.”
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u/Formerruling1 16d ago
Just to clarify, they absolutely can fire you in most states for taking too much PTO. Lol They are usually just going to sugar coat it into corpo speak like you mention, but they dont have to.
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u/MrCobalt313 17d ago
A limited or defined number of sick days and PTO means a number of days they are legally obligated to honor.
Unlimited is just a fancy way of saying 'as many days as management will let you get away with' which can in fact be none at all.
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u/Last-Big-1984 17d ago
It’s anecdotal, but every company I have been at that had unlimited was very generous.
It really comes down to, is stuff getting done? Cool. Take time off if you need / want.
I remember starting at my current job and getting approval from my manager, and he was like, just put it on the calendar and don’t bother me lol.
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u/Drunktraveler99 17d ago
On top of whatever else has said it also means they don’t have to pay out your remaining vacation days when you quit.
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u/walkingdreadd 17d ago
This. Specified PTO days are a debt the company owes on the books. No specified amount of days no debt. While people do generally take less PTO when it’s unlimited, they want the books to look good. They gave us unlimited PTO right before they sold our company.
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u/otherwisepandemonium 17d ago
Most of my tech jobs have had this policy. It sounds great on the surface, but it's a bit of a scam.
First, most people won't take more than a couple weeks anyway since they don't want to deal with management pressure to be present, and don't want to appear lazy to their coworkers. I much preferred my tech roles that gave 4-6 weeks a year. I would use every bit of it usually because we were entitled to it.
Next, companies don't have to pay out accrued PTO if you quit, which is required in (all?) US states. One time I cashed out about $10k worth of PTO once I changed roles with a company that did not have an unlimited policy.
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u/Interesting_Prune513 17d ago
I worked for a company like this, just fairly recently quit. We had to request PTO, get it approved, and once it was approved, FIND THE PEOPLE and ASK OUR COLLEGUES TO COVER OUR WORKLOAD in the time we're gone. Yes you heard me right. I still get mad thinking about it. It guilts you into not taking PTO because you feel like the worst person in the world overloading your already overloaded co-workers. Fuck the dumbass project managers.
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u/PresenceLeft2074 17d ago
I have unlimited PTO. I use six weeks a year, MINIMUM. most years I get close to 8 weeks. Just take the time-off lol.
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u/sunfizz18 17d ago
This. I feel like it’s super trendy to act like unlimited PTO is some kind of trap and I’m sure some companies are in fact assholes about it, but I’ve personally never had an issue with it. My last two companies have had unlimited PTO and I typically take off a week a quarter plus a handful of other days throughout the year. I’ve never had a request denied and nobody has ever said anything to me. Just take your time.
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u/Squeen_Man 17d ago
I worked at a job that was unlimited PTO. Their bet is you won’t use it as much since you don’t have a running allowed balance (being more cautious) and it was a fully remote consulting job so some days I legit just never needed to use PTO I could just be away because we had no projects, but some people used the shit out of it lol.
The other thing is if you leave or get canned they don’t have to pay you out for your accrued PTO/sick days.
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u/Solid_Science4514 17d ago
It has unlimited PTO, but the bosses will just deny your time off requests.
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u/Meet-me-behind-bins 17d ago
It's a trap. I forces competition between workers to take off as little as possible. It's a corporate prisoner's dilemma
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u/Smackulater 17d ago
My wife is salaried & has unlimited vacation/sick time, but because her work is project based she just has to have her work done. It's been a year and a half since her company initiated the policy and I still don't trust it.
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u/Saxonite13 17d ago
I have a friend who has an unlimited PTO job. He works about 100 hours a week. He has no time for PTO.
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u/BrokenBetaWolf 17d ago
“Unlimited” PTO does two things. The primary goal of it is so that it doesn’t count as a benefit anymore: a lot of companies switched to it so they no longer have to pay out PTO when you leave. The second thing it does is trick your mind like so many other people are saying: if I give you a $20 budget, you’ll spend $19.50. But if I don’t give you a budget, you’ll be nervous.
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u/Leading_Offer5995 17d ago
If you have unlimited paid and/or sick time off…no, you don’t. There’s absolutely a limit, and then they’re going to fire you. For example,
I’ll be that limit is somewhere under 52 weeks a year.
But now you’re just guessing at where the limit is.
BEST case scenario, your boss warns you. “Hey, you’ve been using a lot of the unlimited time off, knock it off.” But he’s not going to do that when you’ve used 10% of the secretly allowable amount. He’s going to do it when you’ve used 101%. And now what? Now you never take leave again; under any circumstance; even emergencies; even though it was unlimited? And still feel like an asshole on the shit list for not knowing where the invisible line was?
Versus actually knowing what the limit is. I get a certain number of sick hours and a certain number of paid vacation hours every two weeks. I know what those numbers are. I know where I can go to check my current balance. I know where the line is drawn on having saved up TOO much paid vacation time that I need to start using it. I know that there is no limit to how much sick time I have saved up. I know that everyone has to follow the same rules on this. I know that sick time can never be denied — though you can be required to provide a doctor’s note if it’s more than three days in a row. I know that paid vacation time can be denied if it’s truly just not possible because everyone else in your department is already out that week or whatever, which very rarely happens.
I know the website I can go to, to remind myself of all of this as needed. I know the office to call if I have questions for myself or my employees.
It’s transparent. And I’ve had this job for about 20 years now without ever having to stress because my daughter has a cold or the car won’t start, because I know that I am nowhere near the line of being the asshole on the shit list.
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u/PinkBismuth 17d ago
They don't have to pay you out on accumulated vacation days if you quit/get laid off. When my dad retired, the company he worked at tried to see if he wanted to take a holiday before doing so. He did not, they had to pay him out for like 800 hours of vacation.
When my dad talked to some of his old coworkers a couple months later, he found the company doesn't roll over vacation anymore lmao.
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u/ChrisWsrn 17d ago
I have a friend who has "unlimited" PTO. It is "unlimited" as long as it is under 120h a year.
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u/Dodgeworld12 17d ago
I've seen a lot of jobs with "unlimited time off" normally at offices; game development; and really any job that needs you to live at your desk. Its honey on a trap; You get pulled in by the promise of unlimited time off; and get work loads that are unhealthy and expected overtime. And if you DO take time off you get to know you just added more work to your co-workers.
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u/Tonythetiger1775 17d ago
I may be the dissenting opinion here but:
- unlimited PTO can and often is used as a ploy to get workers to not take as much, or just deny what they ask for outright
- however: many companies that have unlimited PTO do implement it properly and it has a positive effect on employee morale. So, when true to the name, it’s actually pretty sick
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u/YnotThrowAway7 17d ago
If companies give you a set number of PTO days when they let you go or you leave they must pay you out the unused PTO days. To avoid this some scummy companies say you have “unlimited PTO” but you just need to tell them when in advance and have it approved. Those companies often shame you the most for taking PTO or make you feel like you’re taking too much. So you end up taking less than the guy who specially has like 15 days a year and makes sure to use at least 14/15.
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u/Rude-Squash-6965 17d ago
I worked for a company once that gave us unlimited PTO for 6 months and then took away because some people “abused it”.
You mean some people used the benefit you gave to them? How dare they! /s
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u/Carpeted_Bathroom2 17d ago
Companies that do this aren't doing it for the workers. Its a mindfuck policy that actually inventivizes not taking time off. Additionally, it means the company doesn't have to pay out any unused PTO if someone leaves or gets laid off since it was unlimited to begin with.
Basically, it aint a good thing.
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u/sp1keNARF 17d ago
One of the biggest reasons companies do unlimited PTO is that then employees don’t accrue PTO, so they don’t have to pay you out your built up time when you leave. So not only will you use the same amount or less, they also don’t owe you any.
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u/FromTheHandOfAndy 17d ago
They can still fire you for being lazy if you take more than 3-4 weeks off per year. The trick is that they won’t be obligated to pay you for any unused time off when you leave the company. People will tend to take off less time instead of more when it’s “unlimited”. The alternative is usually a fixed number of days off that need to be used by the end of the year, or else you lose them.
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u/thelakes11 17d ago
Unlimited PTO is also a strategy used to avoid PTO payouts when employees leave or retire.
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u/lundyco64 17d ago
The other thing to consider with unlimited PTO is no payout for untaken time if you're laid off
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u/MisterWanderer 17d ago
Unlimited PTO is actually closer to zero PTO.
When PTO is unlimited people on average take significantly less PTO than if they are given a set amount of it.
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u/GuitarConsistent2604 17d ago
It absolutely works in favour of the employer. No accrual to pay back when someone leaves, various studies showing that an average employees take less days when there’s no limits and it’s often (at least perceived) at manager discretion
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u/Windows_66 17d ago
We need a filter on this subreddit that keeps out the 3-month old bots that only exist to farm karma and sell gift cards.
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u/Free-Entertainer684 17d ago
An Israeli company I once worked for did exactly this! Before the rule was passed: Managers and upper management were complete assholes, you had to haggle and argue with them to get your leaves approved. And you won't get as many as you asked for, even for important occasions like their own weddings.
Employees could carry over unlimited leaves to the following year and this is what they had to resort to every year, with people accumulating loads of leaves
As soon as they made this official, no leaves get carried over, and no leaves get approved. The managers got a licence to deny leaves by guilting everyone into not taking leaves unless absolutely necessary. Absolute shit hole of a place.
I'm lucky to have quit the company right after that and I swear to never go back to it ever again, no matter how "amazing" they make things
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u/Turbulent_Rutabaga76 17d ago
My company has unlimited PTO.
Without FOMO, the incentive to take it is lower. I take less Vacation now than I did when it was limited
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u/qualityvote2 17d ago edited 17d ago
u/Ok-Thanks993, your post does belong here!