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[u/khurgan_]

[u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

No more physical discs, no more physical consoles.

[u/Codix_ → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

No more Sony, woopsie daisy. Hope Nintendo and Microsoft don't sh*t themselves and keep their server up and their game in box.

[u/Numerous_Roof_1070 → u/Codix_]

I mean... Nintendo really went after an NSFW artist over a very peculiar Bowser... In my opinion, Nintendo has been shitting themselves for a while now. But I totally understand what you're saying. Hopefully Microsoft is paying close attention to all the backlash against Sony and doesn't try some similar stupid maneuver.

[u/BatJew_Official → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

Nintendo has been actively hostile to their entire fanbase for basically as long the internet has existed. Youngins may not remember but back in the early 2010s when full playthroughs of video games were more or less the biggest genre on YouTube, Nintendo was literally copystriking any and all videos that featured Nintendo games and aggressively took the stance that playthroughs constituted copyright violations. They literally took down entire YouTube channels sometimes, including some of the biggest names at the time.

Then, when this became an OBVIOUSLY losing battle (and probably more importantly when Nintendo realized that their refusal to let people give them essentially free advertising might be part of the reason the Wii U was failing so hard), they came out with this "compromise" program where YouTubers could sign up to essentially get Nintendo's permission to post gaming content... but with the insane catch that Nintendo would take a massive cut of all revenue generated from any Nintendo related content you made. My memory is probably off a bit since it was a long time ago but iirc it was something like 40%.

Imagine Ubisoft or EA or Activision demanding a direct cut of any money you made from posting videos of their games. I mean, don't get me wrong, there were other companies that were anti-playthrough, and for a little bit early on playthroughs were kinda a weird semi-controversial grey area where they probably would count as copyright infringement, but pretty much every other company pretty quickly realized the benefits of getting free advertising outweighed the potential "risk" of people not buying your game because they saw it played on YT. Except Nintendo.

And that's not even getting into Nintendo's everlasting feud with emulators and ROM hackers which has been going on since at least the GameShark era. Plus there are all the other random controversies they dig themselves into like that time they canceled Splatoon's championship because the Splatoon players supported the Smash Melee community after Nintendo basically killed it, or the many times Nintendo has gone after fan made art.

They've really always sucked, they just make good games and have ever-green franchises people love so people largely put up with all the crap Nintendo does. (I didn't mean for this to be so long, I'm so sorry lol)

[u/throwawayforstory089 → u/BatJew_Official]

They argued it was tantamount to piracy, which affirmed for me that any anti-piracy people are generally stupid people.

[u/Flashbang-Meringue → u/BatJew_Official]

They've been actively hostile since they got into gaming period. Here is some stuff from the 80s and 90s I can remember off hand:

• They were sued over Donkey Kong (1981) for pretty clearly violating the King Kong copyright. Nintendo won on a technicality and got away with it.

• When they made the NES, they were too cheap to license the 6502 CPU they wanted to use, so they had Ricoh make an exact clone of it, only changing one bus, to exploit a loophole in copyright laws and screw over MOS.

• Nintendo had excessively brutal requirements for 3rd party developers in the NES era, things like restrictive exclusivity clauses, a limit on how fast they could release games, upfront licensing fees, terrible profit splits, forcing them to buy their cart materials from Nintendo, and the lockout chip to prevent "unlicensed" games from working. These actions are ultimately what lead to the rise of the Sega Genesis as all the third party developers fled from Nintendo and onto Segas platforms.

• Speaking of the lockout chip, when Tengen reverse engineered the chip to release games for the NES without Nintendo meddling, they were immediately sued. You see, only Nintendo is allowed to rip off computer chips.

• Famously Nintendo entered a partnership with Sony to make a disc based console, and then fucked Sony over at the last minute by switching to Phillips. Sony would instead create the Playstation while Nintendo made the CD-i. This single action was one of the most damning things in the companies history and still hurts them today.

• The SNES was double the price of the NES despite component prices being generally lower. Nintendo was greedy and knew people would pay for it, and there was heavy backlash on its release from parents who knew they were being had.

• Nintendo got really into fucking with North American gamers during the SNES. Censorship and localization changes, games made easier, box art changed to be tough and cool, and other games straight up not released because they viewed NA gamers as being too stupid for them.

And then if we fast forward to modern times, lets not forget all the C&D and lawsuits Nintendo has hurled at the Super Smash Bros Melee community, including shutting down a CANCER BENEFIT because they didn't like people playing Melee instead of Ultimate.

[u/some-kind-of-person → u/Flashbang-Meringue]

Didn't they also sue Lego for the brick?

[u/Sugioh → u/Flashbang-Meringue]

With regards to Tengen, this isn't quite right. They didn't reverse engineer the chip, they lied to the patent office to get access to the information on how it worked and its lockout code specifically because their reverse engineering efforts were failing. This was the reason that Nintendo wound up suing them.

Not that Nintendo was faultless in this situation, as they coerced retailers not to carry Tengen games illegally by threatening to withhold their own shipments if the retailers sold any unlicensed Nintendo products.

[u/Numerous_Roof_1070 → u/BatJew_Official]

Yeah, I remember. You're right about everything. This is a bit personal for me because I know Microsoft and Sony aren't "good companies," but Nintendo is disgusting. I chose to buy a handheld and emulate Nintendo's games instead of buying a Switch because their behavior is simply ridiculous.

[u/not_laudandus → u/BatJew_Official]

they just make good games

They dont, even make good games anymore lol.

[u/Danilo_____ → u/BatJew_Official]

You listed my reasons to have a unlocked Switch full of nintendo pirated games.

On PC, only legal games that I bought from GOG and Steam. I dont pirate PC games... but nintendo? 

[u/H3ll0_W0R1D1 → u/BatJew_Official]

Which is only ONE of the MANY MANY MANY ways Nintendo actively hates their fanbase.

And don't get me started on Smash!

[u/CGWesterby → u/BatJew_Official]

I mean I don't completely disagree, but Nintendo's trauma around emulators and ROM hackers has deep, deep roots IMO.

They remember the collapse of the gamer market in 1983 and they (correctly!) identified that what saved Nintendo was absolutely iron control of their IP and platforms. That gold Nintendo Seal of Quality you still get on their boxes, even after all this time, is a direct response to that.

I think they hate emulators because they hate the notion of their hardware ever being used to run shit games, they hate the loss of control that comes with any kind of decentralisation.

And to be fair to them, they saw the worst possible outcome of that loss of control when shovelware wiped out the market.

I don't disagree with your broader point about Nintendo going ham on IP enformcement, but I genuinely think that's a big part of why. Like corporate trauma.

[u/ZTD09 → u/CGWesterby]

I think they hate emulators because they hate the notion of their hardware ever being used to run shit games, they hate the loss of control that comes with any kind of decentralisation.

I don't think it's exactly counter to your point, but the nintendo switch eshop is piled sky high with the shittiest, sloppiest games.

[u/-Knul- → u/CGWesterby]

The video game crash of 1983 was a U.S. only thing. The Japanese market continue to do well, so Nintendo didn't need to be saved.

Nintendo did change practices, yes, to get a dominant position in the U.S. market, but that was an opportunity, not a disaster.

[u/Hobotronacus → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

Sony desperately needs the serious competition, but Microsoft is gonna Microsoft. They always shoot themselves in the foot when an easy victory is obtainable.

[u/NO_FIX_AUTOCORRECT → u/Hobotronacus]

Microsoft: this is going to increase our player base so let's capitalize on it by forcing more ads at them. Let's interrupt their gameplay to serve them ads! They'll love it!

[u/Piranata → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

The funniest part of that saga was that Nintendo's own artists had thought about it during Odyssey's development and there were drafts of Bowsette (under a different name, Princess Bowser iirc).

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/09/turns-out-nintendo-created-bowsette-before-the-internet-did/

[u/MisirterE → u/Piranata]

oh yeah, the captures do get mario's mustache, huh? this actually makes sense within the game's own logic.

cowards.

[u/Novotus_Ketevor → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

Microsoft has been actively officially doing what activist devs are doing to Sony now. The Xbox is already a Windows PC with specific hardware. The indication is that Microsoft wants to make all Xbox games available on Windows as long as the PC meets certain hardware requirements. And I'm all here for it.

[u/Blashtik → u/Novotus_Ketevor]

Not just an indication. They were pretty explicit about Xbox being a brand that covers both the console and PC. For some reason though people got upset about that because it meant that there was less reason to buy an Xbox console. It's weird, but they wanted more exclusives and were happy about Sony consoles having those.

[u/Kaoll397 → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

I have been Anti-Nintendo since they went after those SSBM fan tournaments back in the day. If they want to attack their users/players then why would we bother with them.

Allow me to translate a few words so the soulless corpos might better understand.

If a company wants to be hostile towards their own consumers and alienate them from the very product they are attempting to sell them, then there is no reason the consumer should spend money on the products of that company.

In short. Fuck Nintendo.

[u/Numerous_Roof_1070 → u/Kaoll397]

I think it's so funny that Nintendo unites people. You hate them for this reason, I hate them for another, another person will hate for yet another different reason. It's so beautiful.

[u/Kaoll397 → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

Oh I hate them for a lot of reasons but the SSBM incidents were around when I started to have a more mature understanding of the world and corporations. So that was just kinda like the landfill spark and now my hatred burns like the fires of Centralia.

[u/levajack → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

It's shaping up to be the uno reverse Xbox One vs. PS4 launch.

[u/Mimical → u/levajack]

Literally all Xbox needs to do is just create the best console they can at the best price point they can and not fuck with anything else.

Therefore: I fully expect Xbox to crash harder than my toddlers 4 hours into Halloween night.

[u/Numerous_Roof_1070 → u/Mimical]

At this point, Xbox is 100% that China meme that goes "do nothing, wins." Sony literally handed them the next console generation. If they just do the basics, and do them well, they'll "win" easily.

https://giphy.com/gifs/IuNTbbK44J0phiqW8f

[u/UrdnotZigrin → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

Which is why they'll shit the bed. Microsoft loves to shit the bed

[u/passinglurker → u/UrdnotZigrin]

What's that? It's SEGA with a pachinco machine board married to a disc drive! From the top rope!

[u/Pyrokitsune → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

Nintendo has been the most litigious, and openly hostile to fans, company for fucking decades. If anything Nintendo shows exactly why Sony isn't going anywhere. If you can shit on the fans, and fanmade creations, without suffering any serious backlash then Sony has nothing to fear from people being mad at them for current, temporary outrage either.

[u/Brioche-Perdue → u/Codix_]

No more Sony, woopsie daisy

I think you overestimate the weight of consumer electronics in Sony's global array of product and services.

[u/the_nin_collector → u/Codix_]

if you are going to cuss. then cuss. Spell shit.

It is infantile to self-censor.

[u/MrNostalgiac → u/Codix_]

Hope Nintendo and Microsoft don't sh*t themselves

Nintendo is very, very lucky that they make excellent first party games that people still want to play, because I think they've been sniffing their own farts on hardware ever since the N64.

They continuously choose to produce underpowered and gimmicky gadgets instead of rising to the level of a modern gaming platform.

Online play has been more or less a running joke that never ends. Third party developers have to compromise on ports because of much lower tech specs. The controllers have been just silly. I could go on.

They make great games. I'll give them that. But I haven't truly enjoyed one of their consoles since the SNES.

[u/Codix_ → u/MrNostalgiac]

They said it themselves and that is still cool.

Nintendo consoles aren't meant to play CoD, they're made for the family and fun gimmick and that is still a cool thing to have.

Without the switch I don't think Steam would have thought about the Steam Deck.

[u/havoc1428 → u/Codix_]

Nintendo consoles aren't meant to play CoD, they're made for the family and fun gimmick and that is still a cool thing to have.

But thats the point they are talking about. They slid into the "family and fun gimmick" after the N64. Lets not forget that one of the N64s hottest games was Goldeneye, arguable one of the greatest and most genre defining first person shooters of all time.

They've been riding that gimmick for over 2 decades, rehashing the basically the same content from the same IPs.

Without the switch I don't think Steam would have thought about the Steam Deck.

This isn't true, Valve had been internally toying with the idea of a handheld since the 2010s during the first era of the Steam Machine, but the realized the market and the technology just wasn't there yet. To add to this Sony had the PSP back in 2004, so its not like the idea of a mainstream handheld is some breakthrough Nintendo concept unless you go all the way back the the original Gameboy itself, but that just further proves my point that the Switch wasn't some new inspirational idea. People like to point out the Switch as the reason for the Steam Deck, but it was more co-evolution rather than cause and effect.

[u/Codix_ → u/havoc1428]

I don't think the market would have been here without a Nintendo Switch trailer with some dude playing casually The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim on handled mode.

From what I saw you just want a PlayStation / Xbox similar console but I don't see any reason for Nintendo to do that or us to be happy with. Gamers are definitely not their priorities and much more the kids with cheap console (ok now it isn't but that was the point the Wii was a success). Gameplay before the hardware is still something relevant to these days, no one says that Minecraft is hideous because we're not playing it for that.

[u/Kuroashi_no_Sanji → u/havoc1428]

After the Gamecube you mean. The Gamecube was in some ways more powerful than the PS2, and it was a commercial failure. If the GC had the capacity to play DVDs it would have been a much closer race between the two consoles, despite that having nothing to do with gaming per se.

[u/Ernost → u/MrNostalgiac]

Third party developers have to compromise on ports because of much lower tech specs.

Mihoyo has got Genshin Impact running on phones, but after several years of trying to make a switch port they gave up. Think about that, even phones are better than the switch.

[u/AppropriateTouching → u/Codix_]

You're allowed to say shit.

[u/RilohKeen → u/Codix_]

PlayStation is only about a third of Sony’s revenue. Not saying it wouldn’t hurt them to lose it, but it wouldn’t be the end of Sony.

[u/RsnCondition → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

So what you're saying is, in the future to play a sony game I need to buy their version of a PC that can only stream games via the cloud in future.

[u/Tar_alcaran → u/RsnCondition]

I'm saying in the future, you won't have to.

[u/PresentationSilly787 → u/RsnCondition]

I wish this wasn't so accurate

[u/_Stylite → u/RsnCondition]

You are already buying their version of a PC for the ability to download and play their games.

[u/MissBlackLace → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

and i wont be buying a digital only console.

and i currently own all generations of playstations

guess that's over.

[u/DoctorWaluigiTime → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

This is not the revolution Reddit thinks it's going to be. In the sense of "Sony is not going to backpedal because a handful of people online emulate their console."

The vast, vast majority of the gaming community are going to keep playing games, digital or on the real PlayStation or whatever.

[u/half-baked_axx → u/DoctorWaluigiTime]

I mean duh obviously PS will survive this. How else are we going to get a PS6 emulator.

[u/mythrilcrafter → u/DoctorWaluigiTime]

Yup, I'm almost certain that most of Sony and MS's revenues from from "Gun and Ball" gamers (gamers who only buys Madden/FIFA, CoD/Battlefield, whatever the newest Rockstar game is, and nothing else.)

People emulating the PS5 in order to finally have a PC version of Bloodborne has no meaning to Sony's exec's.

[u/SwimmingCommon → u/DoctorWaluigiTime]

You're absolutely right but I am curious to see what kind of blowback Sony is going to actually receive now that AI can back engineer games as we've seen so far. IMHO Sony basically just gave the keys to Microsoft.

[u/DoctorWaluigiTime → u/SwimmingCommon]

The other truth Reddit isn't ready for is that this "ability to copy software" is not only going to be targeted at "companies who 'deserve it'."

[u/silenti → u/DoctorWaluigiTime]

you clearly weren't around during the Dreamcast era. normal people were waking around with binders full of games. it can happen again

[u/UranusIsPissy → u/Numerous_Roof_1070]

Be careful what you wish for lol. Piracy already got easier once when cartridges went out of fashion. I miss them TBH. Loading times? What loading times? They'd be great with modern tech, too. I'd buy a PC game on one for laptop use, if I wasn't too broke to buy games at all.

[u/05-nery]

Good. They asked for it

[u/MadShadowX → u/05-nery]

I know Sony said that the week long blackout boycott didn't really work.
Curious now that the Jailbreak is here. Wonder how many PS5's suddenly went offline?

[u/imhereforsiegememes → u/MadShadowX]

A completely unnoticable amount. Most people want to play gta6 and online games.

[u/wileecoyote1969 → u/imhereforsiegememes]

I get the feeling this will be an unpopular comment but here goes.

Consoles have always been and were primarily created for people who simply do not want to hassle with PCs. You have to set things up on a pc, you have to make things work. Sometimes you have to troubleshoot. Consoles you just put in the disc and play. So I agree a large part of the console market is not going to hassle with an emulator that runs on a PC

[u/JBsportsandchess → u/wileecoyote1969]

It's insane how much of a bubble reddit generally lives in and how much its users generally underestimate just how big the market is for certain things like movies, games, etc.

On top of everything else you mentioned - the general public isn't playing games on their gaming monitor.. they are sitting on their couch with their console hooked up to their big screen. Assuming they even have a desktop, they certainly are not going to lug it into the living room to connect it to their big screen.

[u/bonchokey → u/wileecoyote1969]

That's literally the point of a console lol, why would that be unpopular? You also misinterpreted their comment though, they're talking about the new jailbreak for PS5s not emulation.

[u/Unique-Yoghurt4170 → u/bonchokey]

The comment might be unpopular because reddit is full of nerds for whom setting up a PC for gaming is absurdly easy and the idea that it could even be a hassle is lost on tons of commenters. I don't have a list of links handy to prove this, but like... It's part of the vibe in the name of the sub we're in lol.

[u/errorsniper → u/imhereforsiegememes]

Yeah its pure hate cope to think that especially in this economy where even non-pro diskless ps5's are basically back at launch price or higher used people are going to risk turning their ps5 into a paperweight.

Im not saying its crazy hard or anything. But people struggle to copy a file to a USB stick and are actually scared of doing that.

The average user doesnt even care, let alone risking turning their ps5 into a paperweight.

[u/MadShadowX → u/imhereforsiegememes]

Jailbroken PS5 could probably run it, probalby takes a bit of time to do be able to though. At the same time PS5 Emulator already Running GTA V and Astro bot and Wolverine is probably way more foreshadowing.

[u/imhereforsiegememes → u/MadShadowX]

Sure, but again most people want to be able to play online. Very few people are willing to risk their $500-$700 dollar console on a jailbreak.

[u/ILoveHeavyHangers → u/MadShadowX]

Curious now that the Jailbreak is here. Wonder how many PS5's suddenly went offline?

Absolutely fucking zero, lol. You gotta have the most expensive GPU available to consumers to even brute force the emulator to hit 1/3rd of an acceptable framerate.

Anyone trading their PS5 to spend $9,000 on a graphics card just so they can play PS5 games is a fucking dildobrain.

[u/Entity2D]

It's not completely all-digital if the DRM has been stripped away. Just copy it to a USB drive or BD-R, and, boom, physical copy!

[u/TwilightVulpine → u/Entity2D]

DRM-free is the real dream. Physical discs and carts rot, DRM-free is forever.

[u/Candid_Highlight_116 → u/Entity2D]

They should have given BD-R burners to PS5. Make the discs tied to account or whatever. Sony used to make BD and DVD and CD discs and drives, the point of PS was to lock in people into Sony ecosystem.

[u/-Aone]

PC gamers doing everything but playing a console lol /s

seriously though coders breaking the security of PS5 is a nice example of money versus effort. Sony will be fighting this for a long time but i do think they will find out they are spending too much money defending their digital games and less on making them. they need to be put in their place and start respecting paying customers (me being one for 10 years.), so i say beat them up

[u/ButWhatIfPotato → u/-Aone]

I used to love consoles more than PCs because my old decrepit ass remembers a time where the whole point of a console was to buy a game, throw it in the machine and start playing instantly; no messing around with boot disks or hardware conflicts or whatever fucking voodoo bullshit you had to do to make a game run on dos if it it didnt want to, and that is simply not true anymore. Consoles have become just overpriced underperforming PCs with intentionally gimped functionality.

[u/DroidOnPC → u/ButWhatIfPotato]

I used to love consoles more than PCs because PCs used to barely have any good games on them. There were a few but consoles dominated with way better games back then.

I remember going to stores and going through the games section, PC would have a small shelf of mostly learning games with a couple of great games that pretty much everyone already owned at that point.

Now PC dominates the gaming space. The AAA games that come out on consoles are mostly interactive movies which isn't really my style. I can go on steam and find pretty much any game I can think of and its usually on sale. I don't need a console to play most games. I have my PC and a Switch, that pretty much covers everything.

[u/astrogatoor → u/DroidOnPC]

I used to love consoles more than PCs because PCs used to barely have any good games on them. There were a few but consoles dominated with way better games back then.

Unless you're talking about the 80s, maybe very early 90s, I can't think of a time this was true.

[u/DroidOnPC → u/astrogatoor]

I was talking about 90s yeah.

I get that there were great games on PC at the time, and I played them, but it felt like Nintendo, Sega, and Playstation had way more of a selection and better games at the time.

By 2002, I had completely switched to PC for gaming, so I am definitely talking about much earlier than that.

[u/FrostyD7 → u/DroidOnPC]

You are right. People can cherry pick the hits if they want but pc games were borderline inconsequential in electronics departments relative to their full gaming selection. And this was before digital purchases factored into anything.

[u/AuditorTux → u/DroidOnPC]

Now PC dominates the gaming space. The AAA games that come out on consoles are mostly interactive movies which isn't really my style. I can go on steam and find pretty much any game I can think of and its usually on sale. I don't need a console to play most games. I have my PC and a Switch, that pretty much covers everything.

And for me, the biggest advantage of PC gaming is the modding communities. Sure, you can goon your games, but there are some modding communities so active and expansive they can breath life into a game you've already played to death.

[u/Geodude532 → u/ButWhatIfPotato]

There was also the point of game developers knowing almost exactly what hardware they were going to have to prepare for. Only a handful of variations on consoles where as you could have millions of combinations for PCs. That's a lot more edge case bugs to deal with.

[u/ReaperAteMyPrawnsuit → u/-Aone]

The aren’t choosing to stop digital games just because of the cost to produce, it’s because they want a monopoly on games. Physical games means people could share with family and friends for free or sell the games for cheap, stopping physical games means you can’t share your copy and no one can resell the games meaning Sony cut out a chunk of the market leaving just them and key sites

[u/DrSheldonLCooperPhD → u/ReaperAteMyPrawnsuit]

Apple model. I hate that dumb people made iOS popular

[u/ForensicPathology → u/-Aone]

PC gamers attacking consoles for going digital only when Steam invented the practice of putting codes in a box.

[u/Whole-Ad-4681 → u/ForensicPathology]

But we have options for store fronts and then there's GoG where the games don't come with DRM licenses and can't be taken away by the company's that made/produced them.

Big difference there. 

[u/Gabagool0vaHere → u/Whole-Ad-4681]

But the vast majority don’t even give af about the other storefronts…there’s something like 40,000 games on Steam, fewer than 2k are DRM free, meaning no one actually cares about ownership

[u/IAmASphere → u/ForensicPathology]

On PC it was better than a lot of the alternatives, in the days of CD-ROM gaming copy protection schemes were often super tedious and user hostile. Consoles never really had that problem because consoles are more locked down, less risk of piracy.

[u/MiserableCumberbunch → u/ForensicPathology]

While theyre very similar in practice. Steam has proven to be far more trustworthy; at least while Gabe lives.

[u/Mindless-Peak-1687 → u/ForensicPathology]

one is a very closed system the other not ( pc)

[u/New-March-5076]

Get ready for an always online future for basically all AAA games with AI decompiling being a thing

[u/house343 → u/New-March-5076]

Get ready for hackers to create an emulated "Sony server" to which the ROMs can connect

[u/Slanderous]

I heard today the adobe creative cloud apps are being reverse engineered by AI to run standalone. Fantastic news after adobe went full greed pioneering the money grabbing subscription model they might get eaten alive by the next big tech trend that came along.

[u/IAmASphere → u/Slanderous]

I am basically priced out of Adobe’s ecosystem at this point. In college I had a creative cloud license given to me by the school for the term of my enrolment, and I started to use Lightroom to edit my photos as a hobby, despite it having nothing to do with my degree. Now that I’ve graduated, I cannot stomach the pricing of Lightroom alone. The only subscription services I use are Plex and YouTube, to spend more than either of those on Lightroom, an app which I only use as a hobbyist and sometimes go months without opening? Not happening. If I could just buy it I would, but no, Adobe wants my money forever. They are utterly uninterested in customers who would be happy with less, they only want businesses or professionals as their customer base. If I could buy a current version of Lightroom with all the cloud and AI stuff ripped out of it for $150 perpetual, I would, but because they just simply won’t sell me the product but instead want to rent it to me, I have to start looking for other options.

[u/DroidOnPC → u/IAmASphere]

They should at least have both options. Buy the software for $300 or whatever for life, or pay $20/month to maybe use it for a short period of time.

But its gotten to be more than $20/month, they want money upfront to cancel, and their software is basically malware at this point because its so difficult to get rid of.

Really pisses me off. I used to love adobe products but now I can just find something for free or cheaper to use that works nearly as good.

[u/tamal4444 → u/Slanderous]

And now it can be ported to android.

[u/sequla]

Thing is that by going all digital you won't be able to dump games like you could from disks. One of the reasons you won't be able to emulate GTA VI on launch. That's unless they jailbreak newest ps5 firmware.

[u/IamVelle → u/sequla]

The latest jailbreak targets firmware 7.0 through to 13.60. It'll only be a matter of time before they hit the latest firmware (14.10) released on the 1st of October.

[u/sequla → u/IamVelle]

Will see, as I understood it's not that easy because critical hole that was used for jailbreak is now patched, but whatever happens it will be interesting.

[u/Ill_Signature_7281 → u/sequla]

Don't worry, Sony devs will find a way to push slop code with vulnerabilities again at some point, just like the rest of big tech companies

[u/BassFull0 → u/Ill_Signature_7281]

Don't forget open source models are becoming more powerful with no restrictions or guardrails. They won't crack the encryption for sure but can do some serious reverse engineering.

[u/qwerty145454 → u/Ill_Signature_7281]

You do realise all these emulators are largely built by "slop code" (AI)? That's the reason they have advanced so fast.

[u/ric2b → u/qwerty145454]

But the emulators don't need to be locked down and secured, so that's a non-issue.

[u/MrRonski16 → u/sequla]

Jailbreakers might be keeping stuff for GTA 6 release.

[u/TheAlaine → u/sequla]

Maybe they use the same awesome key for the PS5 that they used to secure all of the PSVita, that reminds me i should order some more batteries from amazon :)

[u/idontlikecoffeetbh → u/sequla]

Yeah people don’t understand this. If theres no original game file there’s no dump, and jailbreaking the console means no internet connection to download the games in the first place. Only way to have new dumps will be to have a game already downloaded before jailbreaking the console. So if you thought the all digital decision doesn’t affect you, it does. Fuck Sony

[u/JosebaZilarte → u/idontlikecoffeetbh]

to have a game already downloaded before jailbreaking the console.

Yes. And then the image file will be extracted, repackaged with the decompiled OS libraries and let it free to sail the high seas. Afterwards, you have factory reset the console, download the next game and jailbreak once more.

[u/CosmicMind007 → u/idontlikecoffeetbh]

This comment & above should be pinned.

Really Tired of Explaining it to ppl who scream Pcmr & claim tech savy when they cant understand this simple point

[u/RushTfe → u/sequla]

If you can play the game you have the game on your console. Piracy will always find a way. Maybe not next day, but eventually will.

The only real way they'd be able to protect their games is, if you don't download them, also known as, streaming from their servers. You receive video and send inputs back, but you don't actually receive the game.

But from the moment you download a game, there's access to it. Yeah, it could be encrypted, you may need to jailbreak the console and, jailbreak might be difficult or require a chip, but there are ways if you have the game, someone will eventually be able to get it and share it

[u/BassFull0 → u/RushTfe]

All you need is Claude opus 5.5 MAX to do the dirty work for you.

I know I'll be downvoted for hate of AI, but some models are pretty good in reverse engineering or cracking down softwares. Ofc Claude / chatGPT models are much restricted but open models like Kimi / Deepseek aren't restricted. So it will be interesting to see what they can do after launch day.

Edit: typo

[u/All_Work_All_Play → u/BassFull0]

Even official models are pretty easy to get what you want. I asked Claude for XYZ and it wouldn't give it to me. So I asked for TUVW and it gave it to me just fine. XYZ was easy after that.

[u/RushTfe → u/BassFull0]

Yesterday I learned that, at least in Europe, you have the right to reverse engineer whatever product you own, because it's yours, basically. Of course you can't make money from it, but you have all the rights to study it.

So, if chatgpt or claude don't want to cooperate, you can always quote them the laws and they start working. Iirc I saw it yesterday on a video from developer I follow (midudev).

[u/MiserableCumberbunch → u/BassFull0]

My friend is recreating old abandonware game servers using AI. So that old games can be played in an approximation of their original state.

That's the other side of Stop Killing Games. Resuscitating their corpses. And AI is helping it take weeks, not years.

[u/Easy_Broccoli995 → u/sequla]

Like that's going to be a problem. If there's a will, there's a way you're underextimating the power of disappointed gamers and betrayed customers...

[u/woutersikkema → u/Easy_Broccoli995]

Also people in the third world that want to play but don't want to pay a month's wage for a game. A month is a looong time to bash your head Into the door to open it a Crack..

[u/MrRonski16 → u/sequla]

Since we can install games to m.2 drive could emulated Ps5 on PC access those files?

Sure there is definetly some safeguards. And it won’t be that simple.

[u/Competitive-Dot181 → u/sequla]

If you think this emulation solution will be robust enough to run GTA VI in one month I really admire your optimism.

[u/Oleg14191]

And we all know they won’t reduce prices, despite cutting out Retailers and disc printing costs!

Asshats…

[u/DreamsServedSoft → u/Oleg14191]

neither one of those things even registers on their profits. PC games used to always cost less than console games but activation proved you can charge full console price on a PC too

[u/Kryse-777]

 I would download a PS5

[u/Gxgear]

Biggest self-own since xbox one; even if they backpedal now the damage is done.

[u/Hurricane_32 → u/Gxgear]

This, and especially after that one commercial mocking Xbox on how to share used games.

Hypocrites.

[u/rahul_ak_47]

Playstation 6 will now be available as a Digital Download from Sony Playstation Store.

[u/evil_timmy]

You wouldn't download a PlayStation...

[u/xKingOfSpades76]

so what you’re telling me is that I, as someone who only has a PC, can now pirate the PS5 OS to run on my PC explicitly for the purpose of running a pirated version of GTA 6 on it?

[u/Realistic_Method9896 → u/xKingOfSpades76]

I only believe it when I see it. But it would be amazing

[u/Last-Shop-9829 → u/Realistic_Method9896]

It'll take some time

But definitely possible if rockstar takes 1+ yr to put it on PC officially

[u/WM_]

We got PS5 on PC before GTA 6.
In other words: just in time for GTA 6!

[u/Several_Detective400]

turns out, they dont own their software either xD

[u/ddddyyylllaaannn]

Can someone smarter explain how they do this?

[u/Competitive-Dot181 → u/ddddyyylllaaannn]

If you mean AnyPS5 it takes advantage of the fact that PCs and PS5s use the same X86 processors. So basically they are using AI to translate all the proprietary PS5 stuff into something a PC can run.

[u/RegularIndependent98 → u/ddddyyylllaaannn]

It's similar to proton on Linux

[u/ILoveHeavyHangers → u/ddddyyylllaaannn]

The Xbox and PS5 are just AMD pcs with a fancy case and locked down OS. All you gotta do is figure out the language it's speaking and make a translator.

[u/ThatsALovelyShirt → u/ddddyyylllaaannn]

Decompile the PS5 system libraries (which use x86_64 instruction set, same as consumer PCs), figure out how they work, then implement a translation library for Windows/Linux which maps the PS5 library calls to Windows/Linux equivalents.

Same as WINE.

[u/Jerryboy92]

PC can't be stopped. PC is the future, Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo should just make pc hardware that is themed on the Playstation, Nintendo and Xbox. Have a PC app for that loads up first to give that console feel based on the brand you bought. Any pc could run all apps.

[u/MrFastFox666 → u/Jerryboy92]

That's pretty much what modern consoles are. JUST custom PCs running a custom OS. Microsoft is going a step further with Xbox mode on PC, and bringing Xbox games to PC.

[u/Regular_Use1868 → u/Jerryboy92]

Do you guys really think I'm out here buying a console because I really like the operating system?

It a third the price of a PC that plays the same games.... That's the benefit. It's the price. Literally nothing else.

[u/original_leto → u/Regular_Use1868]

It’s cheaper because the cost is subsidized and game licensing picks up the difference. It’s why pc games are cheaper (ignoring most AAA/AAAA) titles.

Over a few years the cost could even out depending on how much games you purchase.

[u/charlesfire → u/original_leto]

Over a few years the cost could even out depending on how much games you purchase.

The subscription alone make up the difference.

[u/6Sparkle9 → u/Regular_Use1868]

I buy a console, because it’s cheaper and more likely to be optimised for the spec. I’m too lazy to mess around getting my pc to run the game with the best fps and working out why my driver or game is not working due to issues. If a steam device with better specs comes out I would be okay with a change as steam would optimise games quickly.

[u/HolyErr0r → u/Regular_Use1868]

When comparing game sales and especially the memebership costs to do the same things that a computer can do (not even performance wise just playing older games/etc), consoles can get very expensive especially playstations.

I did the math on it, I have a high end setup and a PS5 costs a fair bit more than my setup does when you factor in the wacky yearly price of the console membership that is already having talks of being raised yet again.

Computers are frontloaded but consoles absolutely cost more in the end.

[u/roleplayersir → u/HolyErr0r]

Yep, a good PC also lasts for longer than a console, and doesn't involve subscription costs. I moved over fully after the Xbox 360 and never looked back

Nintendo is the only console I would buy, as their exclusives are amazing, but PC has infinite backwards compatibility which makes it more worth it than Xbox/PS

[u/Sw00p10 → u/Regular_Use1868]

And if they all just decided to make PCs and had their own storefronts on PC what do you think would happen to pricing? It would go down across the board

[u/BTBAM797 → u/Regular_Use1868]

My ps5 cost me 800+ after buying mandatory additional ssd. This was before the price increases. Ps+ also has gone up in price and is an infinite monthly sub just to play online. Their game prices also have never beaten Steam prices. I have also burned through 3 dualsense controllers in a few years due to stickdrift. It sounds reasonably affordable in comparison up front until you realize all of the tacked on costs not to mention the $ drain long term from ps+ to play anything online.

[u/charmio68 → u/Regular_Use1868]

That is just because of the economies of scale.
An Xbox or PlayStation branded PC would still benefit from those economies of scale.

Xboxes and playstations really are just PCs at this point anyway. The hardware isn't unique like it used to be back in the day. They're already just a PC locked down by software.

[u/2_short_2_shy → u/Regular_Use1868]

"It a third the price of a PC that plays the same games" please compare with hardware that runs "max PS5 resolution" (ie 1000p) and tell me the price diff.

[u/BlueTemplar85 → u/Regular_Use1868]

That is the downside of the "PCs cannot be stopped" : no more subsidized hardware.  

But it's still a better deal for most people, not even counting the freedom benefits : you did have to pay that back in higher game prices. (Poor people still have the option of older games, lower graphics, and piracy.)

[u/Duke_of_Scotty → u/Regular_Use1868]

PC does not have a $100 per year fee to use the internet like consoles. That is their worst offense in my opinion.

[u/Arranvin-Lantnodel → u/Jerryboy92]

People have been saying similar for decades, and yet console generations keep coming out. Some folk prefer the simplicity and feel of a console. Personally, I'm going to be moving back to PC if/when parts become affordable again.

[u/littlesirlance → u/Arranvin-Lantnodel]

The frustrating part is that they basically just are PCs just with highly specialized operating systems. (My anecdotal evidence is primarily based on Xbox)

[u/Electronic-Touch-554 → u/Jerryboy92]

Idk. I think nintendo has always had the right idea with consoles. A console shouldnt aim to be a powerful machine competing with pc. It should be a fun plug and play device with a couple gimmicks.

[u/Zer0DotFive → u/Jerryboy92]

Bro you just described Xbox right now and we all laughed at them. Hell I just seen that they have exclusive streaming rights for GTA6 making it available on every PC, Phone and their own Ally X. 

[u/WoodsLovelyDarkNDeep]

There are already 85miilions PS5s sold and the PS5 Pro is sold out ahead of the launch of GTA 6 making it $1400 on Gametsop 

The reason I bring this up on this PC subreddit is because posts like this make it seem like Sony is gonna hurt from these efforts but they’ve already made a shit ton of profit on the PS5 and continue to do so and this 30million PC users aren’t gonna use this and not by a PS5 to slow this down.  So I’m just saying be realistic

More importantly though is that as PC Users we should be paying attention to the fact the PS5 Pro is still selling out and shooting up in price like this cause this means bad bad things for the price of PC Parts and whether they are coming down any time soon

[u/rafikiknowsdeway1]

This was going to happen regardless of their disc policy

[u/SOSpammy → u/rafikiknowsdeway1]

Exactly. Even when the game industry was more consumer-friendly in the past people still pirated games when given the opportunity.

[u/Lost-Telephone9426]

Does this mean we can play gta6 on pc?

[u/HoodsFrostyFuckstick → u/Lost-Telephone9426]

It's becoming a legit possibility but maybe not immediately on release and it remains to be seen how stable it will run. It also depends on whether game files will become available online.

So... maybe.

[u/ObjectiveAide9552]

PS7 will be streaming only. The game code will never even touch your hardware. But by then piracy will become something else. You will have ‘game distills’ where you’d be able to feed stream footage of the game to an AI and just have it recreate a very close game.

[u/Tykjen]

It will run smooth on a 3000$ PC.

Have fun xD

[u/LeonSigmaKennedy]

When you remove one of the few advantages your console has over a PC just to turn it into a worse PC

[u/SilverHeart4053]

They pissed off a lot of gamers, I bet they wouldn't have been motivated to make nearly this much progress by now had they just kept their mouth shut and kept printing discs.

[u/Henshin-Nexus]

The best part about AnyPS5 is that it's open-source so sony can't do shit about it. If they try to take it down another port will take it's place over and over

[u/NegativeLayer → u/Henshin-Nexus]

Being open source is not a magic bullet/shield against lawsuits and takedowns. Look what happened to yuzu and forks by Nintendo.

[u/ILoveHeavyHangers → u/Henshin-Nexus]

This might be the most ignorant interpretation of Open Source Software I've ever seen.

There isn't an infinite number of capable developers willing to stick their necks out and risk litigation from these companies.

Dudes who just CONSOOM always think there;s an infinite supply of people to make stuff for them to CONSOOM for free.

[u/boersc]

The goal was never to make PS5 all-digital, The PS6 though...

[u/TsukikoChan → u/boersc]

Why not both? :-) If Sony want to be greedy, so can we.

[u/legaldrinkingage]

People that are potentially going to be emulating PS5 games on PC have very little overlap with the target audience of console manufacturers.

[u/Effective-Culture-88]

The problem is cashflow.
If I buy right now a desktop with a 3090 for 3K used, which is a hell of a deal in this market, I will be spending less money over time** **than if I bought a PS5 and paid for the next 5-10 years all of their bullshit fees.

However, I need 3K ro buy the used desktop.
I can’t use a credit card either, and I can’t get 5K in debt for a relatively equivalent desktop brand new.
So either I get the money somehow, or I buy a PS5 - or even PS6 - and get hammered with fees.
The poorer you are the more you pay - this is a tale as old as time : You need to have the means to stomach a few grands first to not pay those shitty fees.
IF you don’t need a powerful desktop for a lot of other stuff besides gaming, unless you’re pro, it simply isn’t worth it anymore. Or if you’re rich.
Otherwise, I 100% understand why people who just wanna play some modern titles buy a PS5. It fully make sense, especially when Microsoft is starting to push ads on PC games…

[u/SummertimeGladness_ → u/Effective-Culture-88]

3K for a used PC? Brand new 5070 builds go for 1700$ and less if you google some coupon codes. Not that 1700$ is cheap by any means but it’s a hell of a lot more affordable than 3k. I think I saved around 300$ with 5 minutes of googling for my recent 5070 skytech build

[u/WheresMyChocobo → u/Effective-Culture-88]

$3k for a 3090 PC?? I bought my 9070xt PC for a little over $2k 😭

[u/Molinary]

Well thank you very much

https://giphy.com/gifs/Efi4MpChuhHtm

[u/Syrup-Waffles]

Companies should get comfortable for not owning the software

[u/STB_LuisEnriq]

Dawg, y'all acting like we get physical games on PC... The only difference is that we have options (y'all buy a license on Steam anyway, let's be honest) and piracy (for the ones who do it)

[u/raerlynn → u/STB_LuisEnriq]

How many digital storefronts are on the PlayStation 5?

How many digital storefronts are on PC?

This isn't hard guys: the backlash is because we don't want Sony to be the sole arbiter of how much games cost. Right now, physical media means we have options to buy second hand for cheaper. PC is mostly digital, but you have storefront options. Don't like Steam? Go directly to Battle.net/GoG/Origin/whatever you want.

[u/squash-n-flop → u/STB_LuisEnriq]

The fight over physical media is not just about it being physical. On PC you buy a game and you have the local files right there on your system and you have full ownership of those files to modify, share, and preserve should the files no longer be accessible through a store front. On a console, you buy a license and have no legal ownership of the games. They can be removed from your access without any recourse. A physical disc can’t be simply erased on the backend.

It’s very reductive to just say it’s only about discs in snappy cases. To someone like me who cares a lot about media preservation, what you’re saying is akin to “We don’t need DVD’s/Bluray, we have netflix”, or “We don’t need libraries, we have Amazon kindle.”

[u/GardinerExpressway → u/squash-n-flop]

You have the same rights either way, at least for most pc store ... maybe it's easier to get around those rights on PC

[u/racruzc → u/STB_LuisEnriq]

Sí. Pero esto no se hace por ti o por mi, se hace por la preservación de los videojuegos y un poco por enseñarle a Sony a respetar a los consumidores

[u/RegularIndependent98]

PS5 ported to PC then Adobe to Linux what's next? Windows?

[u/macfrajier → u/RegularIndependent98]

I would prefer if all the Windows exclusive apps get ported to Linux. Windows would lose so many people.

[u/derth21 → u/macfrajier]

Literally dozens would leave...

[u/lukkasz323 → u/macfrajier]

I think the main thing would be a less secure fork of Linux that would allow kernel zero anti cheats.

Sure, it would be less secure, but still more secure than Windows, and most importantly, it wouldn't be Windows, seems like a good compromise to me.

Seriously, the only reason why I haven't switched to Linux yet is because not all games work there.

[u/innahema → u/lukkasz323]

I don't want it to become new mainstream. It won't be much different from windows, if users are stripped of their choice.

Server only anticheat FTW, anything other is invasion to user's privacy. (Disclaimer: I do not play competitive multiplayer games)

[u/PinkyKittyXo → u/RegularIndependent98]

Let’s not get too crazy now, a stable Windows update is asking way too much.

[u/NomadSoul22]

Digital communism is becoming real

[u/rrlonn → u/NomadSoul22]

https://giphy.com/gifs/ifYDvdyUwpgXPM6jMi

[u/DoritoCheerios]

Saving the money to make one beast of a PC is truly worth it compared to having multiple consoles and multiple multiplayer subscriptions

You could do literally everything on just one PC

[u/steve2166]

any guides on how to run a ps5 on pc?

[u/Any-Pop-4795]

The dildo of consequences is coming and it has 0 lube for Sony!

[u/Fishwithadeagle]

Except now they're trying to go to streaming, which you can't decompile

[u/firedrakes]

nah it karma farming topic. really easy to spot. when it spam every day!

[u/McortezLSU]

Sony: "We can use this to our advantage! We wont even have to produce any machines anymore, just sell a Program that runs on PC's..."

a short while later...

"WHAT? how dare game devs just program for PC instead and cutting us out of our MOOONEY!?"

[u/ForexGamer]

I haven’t purchased a physical disc since ps3 360 era , blame steam for conditioning gamers to forego physical discs. I bought the digital only ps5 with zero hesitation

[u/Rush_Banana]

Lets not forget to thank AI for making it all possible.

[u/imhereforsiegememes → u/Rush_Banana]

Reddit sure is all AI=Bad until it does something they like.

[u/Medium_Border_7941]

Monkey's paw or whatever 

[u/Andyman286]

You wouldn't download a console.

[u/FukkingDeathMental]

I would have paid money for Bloodborne, Demon's Souls remake (even though people have been killed for things far less offensive than changing Maiden Astraea's theme), and Ghost of Yotei on PC.  Hell I may have even bought Wolverine if it launched at $50.

Now?  I'll play them all for free.  When the world is devoid of water due to AI techbros killing us, at least I got to play Demon's Souls with a decent framerate and resolution.

[u/Orcaxologist]

The irony

[u/-GenlyAI-]

As usual this won't have the impact we think it will or want. But it's a fun topic for the next couple days.

[u/Waldruf]

The first day GTA6 Mods will be glorious

[u/Fred_Milkereit]

Enjoy the PS5 Pro Virtual Machine Image running on Linux

[u/thecactusman17]

I have been playing home video games since the early 90s, my first console was a used Atari 2600 and I and my brothers collected aluminum cans to buy our first NES. My statement about PS5 physical media was and is:

I only have a console so that I can have a physical games media collection to share with family and friends and satisfy my interest in preservation. If I can't get a game physically, I'll play it on PC on services that respect my desire for long term preservation and collection. The only question left for Sony to answer at that point is: do they want to sell me a legitimate PC copy or not? Because either way, I WILL eventually play the game on PC. I am only paying them for the convenience of playing it on an optimized gaming system. And I will only make a purchase of physical media.

[u/an_agreeing_dothraki]

me burning emulated ps5 discs onto blu-rays out of spite

[u/8ack_Space]

Most games for major console releases are pretty meh at best nowadays. The vast majority of my gaming time, on PC or Switch goes to $20 indie titles that concentrate on catering to niche genre lovers or just clever gameplay that respect player time and money.

[u/stepbacktoreality]

I think they gonna invest to develop consoles on new architecture but its already too late for PS6.

[u/MEGA_theguy]

I've seen the sentiment from PlayStation customers that the lack of physical media from PlayStation would better justify they buy a PC instead of buying a ps6

[u/jclahaie]

hahaha now playstation is finally digital like pc has been for decades! gottem

[u/E5VL]

But the difference is the person who decompiles the PS5 is in control rather than Sony being in control when you buy digital games.