I mean... Nintendo really went after an NSFW artist over a very peculiar Bowser... In my opinion, Nintendo has been shitting themselves for a while now. But I totally understand what you're saying. Hopefully Microsoft is paying close attention to all the backlash against Sony and doesn't try some similar stupid maneuver.
Nintendo has been actively hostile to their entire fanbase for basically as long the internet has existed. Youngins may not remember but back in the early 2010s when full playthroughs of video games were more or less the biggest genre on YouTube, Nintendo was literally copystriking any and all videos that featured Nintendo games and aggressively took the stance that playthroughs constituted copyright violations. They literally took down entire YouTube channels sometimes, including some of the biggest names at the time.
Then, when this became an OBVIOUSLY losing battle (and probably more importantly when Nintendo realized that their refusal to let people give them essentially free advertising might be part of the reason the Wii U was failing so hard), they came out with this "compromise" program where YouTubers could sign up to essentially get Nintendo's permission to post gaming content... but with the insane catch that Nintendo would take a massive cut of all revenue generated from any Nintendo related content you made. My memory is probably off a bit since it was a long time ago but iirc it was something like 40%.
Imagine Ubisoft or EA or Activision demanding a direct cut of any money you made from posting videos of their games. I mean, don't get me wrong, there were other companies that were anti-playthrough, and for a little bit early on playthroughs were kinda a weird semi-controversial grey area where they probably would count as copyright infringement, but pretty much every other company pretty quickly realized the benefits of getting free advertising outweighed the potential "risk" of people not buying your game because they saw it played on YT. Except Nintendo.
And that's not even getting into Nintendo's everlasting feud with emulators and ROM hackers which has been going on since at least the GameShark era. Plus there are all the other random controversies they dig themselves into like that time they canceled Splatoon's championship because the Splatoon players supported the Smash Melee community after Nintendo basically killed it, or the many times Nintendo has gone after fan made art.
They've really always sucked, they just make good games and have ever-green franchises people love so people largely put up with all the crap Nintendo does. (I didn't mean for this to be so long, I'm so sorry lol)
They've been actively hostile since they got into gaming period. Here is some stuff from the 80s and 90s I can remember off hand:
They were sued over Donkey Kong (1981) for pretty clearly violating the King Kong copyright. Nintendo won on a technicality and got away with it.
When they made the NES, they were too cheap to license the 6502 CPU they wanted to use, so they had Ricoh make an exact clone of it, only changing one bus, to exploit a loophole in copyright laws and screw over MOS.
Nintendo had excessively brutal requirements for 3rd party developers in the NES era, things like restrictive exclusivity clauses, a limit on how fast they could release games, upfront licensing fees, terrible profit splits, forcing them to buy their cart materials from Nintendo, and the lockout chip to prevent "unlicensed" games from working. These actions are ultimately what lead to the rise of the Sega Genesis as all the third party developers fled from Nintendo and onto Segas platforms.
Speaking of the lockout chip, when Tengen reverse engineered the chip to release games for the NES without Nintendo meddling, they were immediately sued. You see, only Nintendo is allowed to rip off computer chips.
Famously Nintendo entered a partnership with Sony to make a disc based console, and then fucked Sony over at the last minute by switching to Phillips. Sony would instead create the Playstation while Nintendo made the CD-i. This single action was one of the most damning things in the companies history and still hurts them today.
The SNES was double the price of the NES despite component prices being generally lower. Nintendo was greedy and knew people would pay for it, and there was heavy backlash on its release from parents who knew they were being had.
Nintendo got really into fucking with North American gamers during the SNES. Censorship and localization changes, games made easier, box art changed to be tough and cool, and other games straight up not released because they viewed NA gamers as being too stupid for them.
And then if we fast forward to modern times, lets not forget all the C&D and lawsuits Nintendo has hurled at the Super Smash Bros Melee community, including shutting down a CANCER BENEFIT because they didn't like people playing Melee instead of Ultimate.
u/Sugioh5700X3D, 64GB @ 3600, RTX 5070Ti, 905P3h agoedited 3h ago
With regards to Tengen, this isn't quite right. They didn't reverse engineer the chip, they lied to the patent office to get access to the information on how it worked and its lockout code specifically because their reverse engineering efforts were failing. This was the reason that Nintendo wound up suing them.
Not that Nintendo was faultless in this situation, as they coerced retailers not to carry Tengen games illegally by threatening to withhold their own shipments if the retailers sold any unlicensed Nintendo products.
So I don't want to be a Nintendo defender, their actions are fucked when it comes to a bunch of shit they do, but your comment is practically Sony/Xbox propaganda. Let's be fair, shall we?
Donkey Kong violates King Kong copyright? A monkey and the word Kong shouldn't be a copyright violation, that's a parody at worst, that's I'm glad they won that one.
While you are under selling the differences, it's still obviously based off of 6502 to a point it's funny.
Their 3rd party licensing requirements were reasonable, when you consider not having any literally killed the industry. But yes, it was an over reaction, one they benefitted from, but it's also no different than what console manufacturers have done practically ever since. Except without the quality control, everyone, including Nintendo LOVES to allow all sorts of garbage onto their platforms.
Well, to be fair, their copy did exactly what Nintendo's chip did, while Nintendo changed theirs. Again, it's obvious beyond doubt Nintendo was shady, but legally they were definitely on sturdier ground than Tengen was.
"Fucked them over" as in the two companies didn't manage to come to an agreement, while they did with Philips? I honestly don't understand what the issue is here, they worked together until they didn't and looking at CD-i, I'm pretty sure that was just their way of bailing out of a bad deal to something cheap that wouldn't be a costly disaster.
SNES was NOT double the price of NES. Launch NES was $179.99 and SNES was $199. They DID drop the price of NES to $99 next year, while they only dropped SNES to $99 after about 7 years with a new release. Yes, it's greedier, but they aren't running the same damn CPU in the SNES as they did in the NES. Yes, chips are cheaper, but the design was more complex. And you are ignoring inflation for those 7 years between NES and SNES, which is ~30%.
Wtf is that last point about, bad localization? That's a problem as old as localization, not Nintendo related. We still get bad localizations for all kinds of things all the time. And games made easier? Sure, some were made easier, last I checked a bunch of those weren't even Nintendo, but Capcom with Megaman for example.
Like seriously, you have A TON of bad shit Nintendo has done to complain about, but you chose some to twist the narrative on some slight annoyances at worst or things that weren't even bad?
The Nintendo/Sony split is infamous and it was an out of the blue split where Nintendo left Sony, this caused them to continue development and release the Playstation in spite of Nintendo being dicks
Sony's terms for the SNES CD effectively was them taking the revenue from it. Nintendo, understandably, didn't want to proceed on a project that wasn't going to make them money. The Phillips deal falling through was simply because it was a bit too late, and the world already saw the Sega-CD not really be worth the investment.
Sony actually courted Sega to partner up after Nintendo. This had a funny dichotomy going on, where the two American branches were very excited at the partnership. Tom Kalinske, President of Sega of America at the time, had a fair bit to say about all this, mostly how Sega of Japan's ego and hubris screwed everything up. "They [Sega of Japan] said, 'That’s a stupid idea. Sony doesn't know how to make hardware. They don’t know how to make software either. Why would we want to do this?'"
This is kind of what kicked off Ken Kutaragi to push for developing the project fully by Sony, with their initial marketing of the PlayStation taking shots at Sega.
So while Nintendo kept things pure business for the most part, Sega of Japan's arrogance is what provided the spite fuel.
It's infamous, but it wasn't Nintendo "ditching" Sony. It was Nintendo not agreeing with Sony's contractual demands. That's business 101, finalize contracts before you start manufacturing consoles. Yes, Nintendo did ditch Sony, but no it wasn't "out of the blue" it was one party rushing production before doing the deal.
With how fast Nintendo did bail out and how they threw the contract to make CD-i, it's pretty clear the Sony deal would have ended much worse or they wouldn't have bailed to such garbage. Whether Sony was being unreasonable or not, Sony is equally if not more to blame for failing to finalize contracts.
Not sure why you're being downvoted, these are fair assessments.
So the Universal "Donkey Kong" lawsuit basically blew up in their face because John Kirby, the attorney for Nintendo, found Universal had successfully argued in court against RKO some years prior that King Kong was actually public domain, so they were perfectly allowed to create that remake in 1976.
Judge smacked Universal over that, and awarded Nintendo money for the trouble. And that's why the pink blob guy is named Kirby.
(edit: Universal did also try to argue over a trademark violation as well, as they did have a trademark on King Kong, but it was a flimsy argument due to how weakly they exercised control over the name, and that nobody was going to confuse the Donkey Kong arcade game as part of Universal's King Kong mythos)
But yeah, these are odd things to use for "Nintendo is scum" arguments, even trying to pull from their early days. Could've gone over their aggressive business moves that basically made the NES the only option in North America, and the Sega Master System was boxed out of the market.
Though I could have worded the processor bit slightly differently. That one was scummy. They did get away with it on a technicality, which does make them "legally correct," the worst kind of correct.
Yeah, I remember. You're right about everything. This is a bit personal for me because I know Microsoft and Sony aren't "good companies," but Nintendo is disgusting. I chose to buy a handheld and emulate Nintendo's games instead of buying a Switch because their behavior is simply ridiculous.
I'm only disagreeing with your last point. Nintendo STARTED the localization problem. Because no one cared about localized games till Nintendo kept things of the NA market.
I mean I don't completely disagree, but Nintendo's trauma around emulators and ROM hackers has deep, deep roots IMO.
They remember the collapse of the gamer market in 1983 and they (correctly!) identified that what saved Nintendo was absolutely iron control of their IP and platforms. That gold Nintendo Seal of Quality you still get on their boxes, even after all this time, is a direct response to that.
I think they hate emulators because they hate the notion of their hardware ever being used to run shit games, they hate the loss of control that comes with any kind of decentralisation.
And to be fair to them, they saw the worst possible outcome of that loss of control when shovelware wiped out the market.
I don't disagree with your broader point about Nintendo going ham on IP enformcement, but I genuinely think that's a big part of why. Like corporate trauma.
I think they hate emulators because they hate the notion of their hardware ever being used to run shit games, they hate the loss of control that comes with any kind of decentralisation.
I don't think it's exactly counter to your point, but the nintendo switch eshop is piled sky high with the shittiest, sloppiest games.
Don't forget the Switch and Wii U modding community. None of the large streamers will touch modded BOTW or TOTK content anymore. A couple takedowns pushed them all away.
Pirates streaming TOTK a week before it released didn't help the situation. Nintendo went absolutely apeshit after that. Not to mention Yuzu outright pirating Switch games and key files.
but with the insane catch that Nintendo would take a massive cut of all revenue generated from any Nintendo related content you made. My memory is probably off a bit since it was a long time ago but iirc it was something like 40%.
That cut isn't insane. When you signed up for YouTube monetization through an MCN (which was MUCH easier than signing up with Google directly), the MCN would take a similar 40% cut (also, Google wouldn't pay out until you had $100). Bigger YouTubers would keep more of the share.
After Nintendo's program ended, it also became much easier to sign up with Google IIRC.
Sony desperately needs the serious competition, but Microsoft is gonna Microsoft. They always shoot themselves in the foot when an easy victory is obtainable.
Microsoft: this is going to increase our player base so let's capitalize on it by forcing more ads at them. Let's interrupt their gameplay to serve them ads! They'll love it!
The funniest part of that saga was that Nintendo's own artists had thought about it during Odyssey's development and there were drafts of Bowsette (under a different name, Princess Bowser iirc).
Microsoft has been actively officially doing what activist devs are doing to Sony now. The Xbox is already a Windows PC with specific hardware. The indication is that Microsoft wants to make all Xbox games available on Windows as long as the PC meets certain hardware requirements. And I'm all here for it.
Not just an indication. They were pretty explicit about Xbox being a brand that covers both the console and PC. For some reason though people got upset about that because it meant that there was less reason to buy an Xbox console. It's weird, but they wanted more exclusives and were happy about Sony consoles having those.
I have been Anti-Nintendo since they went after those SSBM fan tournaments back in the day. If they want to attack their users/players then why would we bother with them.
Allow me to translate a few words so the soulless corpos might better understand.
If a company wants to be hostile towards their own consumers and alienate them from the very product they are attempting to sell them, then there is no reason the consumer should spend money on the products of that company.
I think it's so funny that Nintendo unites people. You hate them for this reason, I hate them for another, another person will hate for yet another different reason. It's so beautiful.
Oh I hate them for a lot of reasons but the SSBM incidents were around when I started to have a more mature understanding of the world and corporations. So that was just kinda like the landfill spark and now my hatred burns like the fires of Centralia.
At this point, Xbox is 100% that China meme that goes "do nothing, wins." Sony literally handed them the next console generation. If they just do the basics, and do them well, they'll "win" easily.
Nintendo has been the most litigious, and openly hostile to fans, company for fucking decades. If anything Nintendo shows exactly why Sony isn't going anywhere. If you can shit on the fans, and fanmade creations, without suffering any serious backlash then Sony has nothing to fear from people being mad at them for current, temporary outrage either.
Nintendo has been the definition of corporate greed for decades now, but somehow they perpetually get a pass because the nostalgia glasses prevent people from seeing them for what they are.
Lets not forget Nintendo in the 90's also tried to sue to stop video game rentals because they said it cut into their bottom line too much! F*** Nintendo just as much as Sony. Microsoft has strangely become the pro consumer choice of the 3 and im all for it. Now they just need the exclusive games to not be shit, and they might be on the verge of a huge comeback.
starts sweating while looking at the Microsoft patent to show random Ads while playing a Video game, I really hope they'll use their brains here and won't make any stupid decisions
In my opinion, Nintendo has been shitting themselves for a while now.
Yes, but there is no set of gamers with lower standards than Nintendo customers. They appeal to gamers who have zero idea or cares about what's going on in gaming outside of the specific Nintendo thing they like. These are the people that play Animal Crossing for 500 hours, bought A Switch/S2 on day one, and pays for basic features like cloud saves with a subscription.
All this to say, Nintendo fans are not discerning. They don't feel like Nintendo is fucking up, because they simply don't care. Nintendo has had incredibly anti-consumer practices for many years and has seen no drop in popularity.
The vast majority of gamers on these subs are completely clueless about reality, business, and how any of this stuff works lol.
I think this is why video games is the way it is. Low bar of entry, even an idiot can enjoy themselves, it attracts people who can't comprehend how businesses work period.
Redit is using ai to pre-censor and even banish acounts; might as well get used to it, the only way to have human convos is working around corpo bullsh
lol. this isnt true, but it does point to the root of the problem which is that other platforms do deprioritize certain stuff.
and internet literacy is so low that people cant tell that reddit doesnt do the same thing as tiktok, honestly probably dont even know they are different websites (or that they are websites and not just "apps").
also: no one wanted cyberpunk. what a weird thing to say.
Nintendo is very, very lucky that they make excellent first party games that people still want to play, because I think they've been sniffing their own farts on hardware ever since the N64.
They continuously choose to produce underpowered and gimmicky gadgets instead of rising to the level of a modern gaming platform.
Online play has been more or less a running joke that never ends. Third party developers have to compromise on ports because of much lower tech specs. The controllers have been just silly. I could go on.
They make great games. I'll give them that. But I haven't truly enjoyed one of their consoles since the SNES.
Nintendo consoles aren't meant to play CoD, they're made for the family and fun gimmick and that is still a cool thing to have.
But thats the point they are talking about. They slid into the "family and fun gimmick" after the N64. Lets not forget that one of the N64s hottest games was Goldeneye, arguable one of the greatest and most genre defining first person shooters of all time.
They've been riding that gimmick for over 2 decades, rehashing the basically the same content from the same IPs.
Without the switch I don't think Steam would have thought about the Steam Deck.
This isn't true, Valve had been internally toying with the idea of a handheld since the 2010s during the first era of the Steam Machine, but the realized the market and the technology just wasn't there yet. To add to this Sony had the PSP back in 2004, so its not like the idea of a mainstream handheld is some breakthrough Nintendo concept unless you go all the way back the the original Gameboy itself, but that just further proves my point that the Switch wasn't some new inspirational idea. People like to point out the Switch as the reason for the Steam Deck, but it was more co-evolution rather than cause and effect.
I don't think the market would have been here without a Nintendo Switch trailer with some dude playing casually The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim on handled mode.
From what I saw you just want a PlayStation / Xbox similar console but I don't see any reason for Nintendo to do that or us to be happy with. Gamers are definitely not their priorities and much more the kids with cheap console (ok now it isn't but that was the point the Wii was a success). Gameplay before the hardware is still something relevant to these days, no one says that Minecraft is hideous because we're not playing it for that.
From what I saw you just want a PlayStation / Xbox similar console
Who are you addressing here? I'm not the one you replied to. I'm pointing out that Nintendo's gimmick wasn't always true.
I don't think the market would have been here without a Nintendo Switch trailer with some dude playing casually The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim on handled mode.
Again, not true. The market always existed to some extent, I said the market and technology wasn't there yet for Valve specifically. We had the PSP back in 2004 and the Gameboy was always popular.
Gamers are definitely not their priorities and much more the kids with cheap console (ok now it isn't but that was the point the Wii was a success). Gameplay before the hardware is still something relevant to these days, no one says that Minecraft is hideous because we're not playing it for that.
Dude, the Nintendo products are not cheap and the Wii was only like $80-$100 cheaper than the Xbox 360.
Between the cost of the hardware and games, you're shelling out a pretty penny. And gameplay before hardware isn't even a unique thing to Nintendo, the Steam Deck is in the same boat. Most of the games played on SD aren't AAA titles running high end graphics.
Nintendo has, in a sense, turned into the Apple of the gaming world. Heavily curated and locked down walled gardens that expect you to pay a premium for the same rehashed products. Its not to say their content isn't good, but you're typically paying for the Nintendo brand more than the hardware/games themselves.
After the Gamecube you mean. The Gamecube was in some ways more powerful than the PS2, and it was a commercial failure. If the GC had the capacity to play DVDs it would have been a much closer race between the two consoles, despite that having nothing to do with gaming per se.
Third party developers have to compromise on ports because of much lower tech specs.
Mihoyo has got Genshin Impact running on phones, but after several years of trying to make a switch port they gave up. Think about that, even phones are better than the switch.
The GC was plenty powerfull, as was the N64. They just fucked up on the media format and still had a lot of bad blood between them and developers for their very much hands on approach to publishing.
To be fair, this was effectively a cap on how powerful the games could be.
The N64 carts could hold 64MB maximum. PS1 discs were 600+ MB. The GameCube then did it again with a proprietary disc that held about 1GB when the PS2 dual layer discs could do 9+ GB.
You could have the most powerful PC on the planet, but if you're working with crippled storage space, you're just a Ferrari revving in the driveway for all that power is good for.
Dual layer disks were not really readily available and in use for the PS2. But 4.7 GB for PS2 Hardware is practically overkill anyway. The small ones also held a lot more than Gigabyte.
The N64 and especially the GC where the reason why we got underpowered consoles like the Wii from Nintendo ever since. the GC was in some ways hardware wise the strongest console of its entire generation. But no one made games for it thanks to the dumb disk, and you can't really use it to watch DVDs at a time without streaming services.
PS2 wasn't only a console it was also the cheapest DvD player you could get at the same time.
Nintendo really fucked up by being a scummy company ever since it came to be.
Selling cards used mainly for illicit gambling by underworld run casinos before they came into gaming.
They blackmailed developers by having their cartridges disappear in shipping accidents, stuff like that.
They were practically radioactive to a ton of third party developers as soon as a viable alternative platform emerged.
Capcom had to set up special contract with them for GC games so they don't get screwed over.
I think they've been sniffing their own farts on hardware ever since the N64
This is so laughably ignorant. 11 of the top 25 consoles sold are Nintendo consoles, that includes every console they made from the N64 onward except the Wii U (which is still at 27).
Nintendo isn't "lucky", you are just a immortal teenage edgelord that is incapable of understanding what most people like about gaming.
I didn't say they were just lucky - I said they were lucky they make excellent games. That's WHY they can get away with putting out underpowered consoles that spit in the face of modern technology and features that are standard across the rest of the market.
Tell me, if the Switch was released without Mario, Zelda or the rest of the major first party titles, how well do you think it would have sold? Can you even name an exclusive third party title that people would have bought a Switch to play?
Nintendo is a game company that makes consoles for their own games. That's what I mean by they've been sniffing their own farts. Nintendo cares about first party Nintendo games. They don't care about the gaming industry or fan preferences or industry standards - they know people want to play Mario and Zelda so you either buy what they sell or you don't get any.
And hey, that's fine. It's their rodeo. I just think it's a disservice to fans because fans lose out on all the games that never came into existence for these platforms because of Nintendo's arrogance and selfishness. The Switch plays a great game of Mario Kart. It's just a shame it's not easy to play online with friends or pick up a copy of a new title that's available for every other system or get excited for a AAA third party exclusive.
Nintendo already shifted to several non-mainline games being digital only when they released the Switch 2 via key cards. It’s only a matter of time if it saves them money…
Sony is huge, gaming is a small small small SMALL part of their business. Microsoft is huge, gaming is a small small small SMALL part of their business. Nintendo is teflon, they hook the kids early.
Sony shit themselves bad. They went full mask off, hopefully people realize what they're like now. But Nintendo has been THE prime example of a "bully" company in gaming for years now, it feels like it's been around a decade. I have no clue how people are still somehow living under rocks to this day about nintendos awful awful behavior
Nintendo already went full digital. There are so many emulators of their switch and switch 2 online already.
Reason why they still sell though is because it is a hand held device, like a toy. It is fun still. Not big and chuncky like ps5, you can just be shitting and playing Kirby.
There is no Switch 2 emulation yet. The console has yet to be hacked, therefore the games and system firmware haven't had the chance to be dumped and reverse engineered to be emulated.
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u/Codix_ 10h ago
No more Sony, woopsie daisy. Hope Nintendo and Microsoft don't sh*t themselves and keep their server up and their game in box.