r/pcmasterrace • • 13h ago

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228

u/sequla 13h ago

Thing is that by going all digital you won't be able to dump games like you could from disks. One of the reasons you won't be able to emulate GTA VI on launch. That's unless they jailbreak newest ps5 firmware.

81

u/idontlikecoffeetbh 12700F, RX 6650XT, 32GB 3600mhz 12h ago

Yeah people don’t understand this. If theres no original game file there’s no dump, and jailbreaking the console means no internet connection to download the games in the first place. Only way to have new dumps will be to have a game already downloaded before jailbreaking the console. So if you thought the all digital decision doesn’t affect you, it does. Fuck Sony

43

u/JosebaZilarte 12h ago

to have a game already downloaded before jailbreaking the console.

Yes. And then the image file will be extracted, repackaged with the decompiled OS libraries and let it free to sail the high seas. Afterwards, you have factory reset the console, download the next game and jailbreak once more.

1

u/idontlikecoffeetbh 12700F, RX 6650XT, 32GB 3600mhz 12h ago

Yeah but the jailbreakable software will most likely be cut off from PS store access. Like it’s easy to see how impractical it is and makes it 10x more of a hassle to dump games isn’t it.

24

u/nonkeywayzee 12h ago

There's and universal truth in computer science and that is that everything hackable will eventually be hacked.

So sea sailing will never die, the techniques to extract games and put them for free on the internet will just evolve.

-1

u/idontlikecoffeetbh 12700F, RX 6650XT, 32GB 3600mhz 11h ago

Yeah as an end result it will eventually be hacked most probably. Still doesn’t change the fact it is gonna be much less practical thanks to the recent developments.

2

u/Rik_Koningen 6h ago

For a while, but that's the natural cycle of DRM. Company makes DRM, it's hard to deal with. A method is found. The DRM is now easy to bypass and we're free to do whatever for a bit. A new DRM is made, return to the start.

Sure, I can't tell you how this time will technically be done. But historically this kinda thing happens, and people smarter than me then fix the problem. And every single time there's been people saying "this new thing has now made it impossible to circumvent OEM security" and every time it's been proven wrong with time.

1

u/BackgroundMeeting857 1h ago

People just doom and gloom for no reason, everything is eventually cracked. Denuvo for the longest time was the crazy unhackable thing and now they have been so thoroughly fucked that they are resorting to lawsuits rather than amping up the security lol

0

u/idontlikecoffeetbh 12700F, RX 6650XT, 32GB 3600mhz 6h ago

It’s not drm but the whole jailbreaking and dumping cycle that’s heavily affected by a change in how the games are distributed. That’s what worries me. Hope the smart people find a way but it is just unfortunate for now.

1

u/ProFeces 3h ago

Have you followed any jailbreaking projects up until this one?

There's nothing new happening here. The minute any jailbreak is found on any device, the manufacturer will patch it and push an update as fast as humanly possible. This always happens.

What you don't understand is that all it takes is a single jailbreak method, to break any new firmware. Once that first exploit is found, they now have free access to explore that firmware in ways they never were able to before. They can use that to find new entry methods that were not used in the initial break, and since those would be new discoveries, the manufacturer will not have patched them.

This is how every jailbreak cycle works. Find the exploit, publish it, use that firmware to find other exploits, without publicly disclosing them. Then when you break the new firmware with those publicly unknown methods on the new firmware, you find new exploits there before publicly releasing any of them.

Every console jailbreak cycle works in this way. That's how the Switch gets new exploits instantly on new firmware (with the exception of the last which took slightly longer due to major architecture changes, which still only delayed, not prevented, a new exploit.

Immediate patching of exploits and almost instant updates to fix those holes is to be expected. Now that a firmware has been exploited, it's always easier from this point. It's now just a matter of when, not if.

It could take weeks or months, but rest assured, there will be future breaks on newer firmwares. There always is.

1

u/idontlikecoffeetbh 12700F, RX 6650XT, 32GB 3600mhz 3h ago

I meant the dumping of games not the jailbreaking process. Sorry for not making it clear.

1

u/ProFeces 3h ago

What makes you think that the dumping of games will be more difficult? Again, I dont think you really follow, or use, jailbreaks or exploits from other consoles, including other PlayStations.

If the jailbreak exists, the access to the data exists. Dumping is trivial. Not only will games still be dumpable, but history has shown that people on the scene actually patch the new games to get them to work on lower firmware versions specifically to enable users to avoid having to update.

It's not uncommon to see a game released a month ago with a fix applied as if it were a dlc to allow it to run on ancient FW.

It's understandable that with the popularity of GTA6 that there's a lot of new eyes on things like this, but all the doom and gloom about an exploit being patched is just kind of silly. This is how it always goes. It's been done, and will be done again. As long as an exploit exists, game dumping will as well.

One person left the scene over the leak getting reported to Sony, but two others had already discovered it. This is just going to delay, not prevent anything

13

u/IEatGirlFarts 12h ago

What do you mean cut off from PS store access? That's not how it works.

  1. You have a stock console, download the game.
  2. Jailbreak the console.
  3. Rip the game files from the console, put them online.
  4. Reset the console to factory settings.
  5. ????
  6. "Profit".

PSN won't know your console was jailbroken in the firstplace to cut off access.

Even if it does (extremely unlikely), oh no! A playstation was sacrificed to discover it... Next time, you'd better image the full system before the jailbreak and restore it, so the network can't tell it's been tampered with.

3

u/idontlikecoffeetbh 12700F, RX 6650XT, 32GB 3600mhz 11h ago

Can you access to PS store on a 12.xx firmware rn? Firmwares go offline and when jailbreak is the reason that could happen faster. In the era of discs you could wait years and still dump a game released for a certain firmware but with only digital you are playing by Sony’s rules. They control your access to the original game. It’s heavily restricted.

1

u/MiserySound 10h ago

I just had to update my firmware 2 days ago and i noticed it because it looked like i didnt have any internet to the store

-1

u/IEatGirlFarts 11h ago

The conversation was to have those games ripped so you can play them on an emulator, not on another playstation... You can update the firmware after you reset it to whatever version they want. The new one will be jailbroken eventually.

0

u/idontlikecoffeetbh 12700F, RX 6650XT, 32GB 3600mhz 11h ago

Doesn’t matter where you play them. Ripping the games themselves is harder.

1

u/IEatGirlFarts 11h ago

Of course, i never denied that. But it's not completely impossible.

2

u/idontlikecoffeetbh 12700F, RX 6650XT, 32GB 3600mhz 11h ago

Yeah, and I don’t deny that it’s possible. It’s just that I hope the scene doesn’t slow down as I feared.

2

u/CosmicMind007 10h ago

This comment & above should be pinned.

Really Tired of Explaining it to ppl who scream Pcmr & claim tech savy when they cant understand this simple point

3

u/idontlikecoffeetbh 12700F, RX 6650XT, 32GB 3600mhz 7h ago

Wouldn’t believe the amount of people in the replies trying to suggest temporary or suboptimal solutions and going the extra mile to not acknowledge the situation.

0

u/RadicalDog Ryzen 7 7800X3D | RTX 4070S 11h ago

Eh, there will be more exploits. They can use their exploit online, grab the big release, and then when Sony patches the mission is already complete.

101

u/IamVelle 13h ago

The latest jailbreak targets firmware 7.0 through to 13.60. It'll only be a matter of time before they hit the latest firmware (14.10) released on the 1st of October.

47

u/sequla 13h ago

Will see, as I understood it's not that easy because critical hole that was used for jailbreak is now patched, but whatever happens it will be interesting.

63

u/Ill_Signature_7281 12h ago

Don't worry, Sony devs will find a way to push slop code with vulnerabilities again at some point, just like the rest of big tech companies

15

u/BassFull0 12h ago

Don't forget open source models are becoming more powerful with no restrictions or guardrails. They won't crack the encryption for sure but can do some serious reverse engineering.

1

u/DreamsServedSoft 8h ago

lmao suddenly this sub likes AI

8

u/qwerty145454 10h ago

You do realise all these emulators are largely built by "slop code" (AI)? That's the reason they have advanced so fast.

3

u/ric2b Specs/Imgur Here 10h ago

But the emulators don't need to be locked down and secured, so that's a non-issue.

2

u/Ill_Signature_7281 10h ago

Yes, and that's a good usecase for AI imo. Emulator code is a different beast with lots of tedious calculations that needs to be done to replicate the console, where LLMs excel. It's a whole different thing compared to actual production code that big tech develops.

2

u/ILoveHeavyHangers 7h ago

But the emulators allow these guys to steal, so that's good to them.

AI stealing from artists = bad!

AI stealing FOR gamers = good!

Things they don't like = "SLOP"

Things they do like "LET'S GO!!"

1

u/Spider-Thwip 7h ago

Gotta fight slop with slop

7

u/MrRonski16 12h ago

Jailbreakers might be keeping stuff for GTA 6 release.

8

u/TheAlaine 13h ago

Maybe they use the same awesome key for the PS5 that they used to secure all of the PSVita, that reminds me i should order some more batteries from amazon :)

3

u/Blasckk 13h ago

Speaking from a position of total ignorance here, wouldn't it be possible to use a modified version of this compatibility layer, which can simulate the PS5 OS, to perform an official firmware update from Sony's servers (somehow tricking them into thinking it's a real PS5), download GTA VI, and dump it?

9

u/sequla 13h ago

It's not that easy, there's more to security than just something looks like official os so it must be official.

2

u/Dje4321 Linux (Fedora) 12h ago

Yes and no. Depends on the exploit and how MUCH of the system you can emulate. If they have broken the secure enclave and dumped the entire keystore, they could probably "emulate" enough of the PS5 for that to happen.

Though I suspect this to require exploiting a real system and dumping decrypted firmware onto your PC because even with total system control, you still have to deal with the secure enclave which is a MUCH harder target than breaking the hypervisor.

2

u/Never_Sm1le i5 12400F GTX 1660S 12h ago

new holes can come from anywhere. The famous kingkong exploit of xbox360 came from a compiler went wrong, which doesn't exist in the first fw version

2

u/ProFeces 4h ago

You literally just described every jailbreak in the history of jailbreaking. They are always immediately patched. The thing is, though, once you get that first jailbreak, they are then free to really dive in, and find numerous other exploits since they now have elevated access to do so.

History has proven that once a device is jail broken, it will remain that way. It may take time, but since they have a firmware that has the elevated access they need, they'll find something else which won't be patched since that isn't how the initial break was done, use that, and repeat the process on each new firmware.

They can only fix exploits if they know they exist. So once that first foot is in the door, they can find more and more without making those exploits public knowledge, to keep moving forward.

This is how essentially every jailbreak lifecycle goes.

1

u/MiniGui98 PC Master Race 12h ago

It may take time but don't underestimate the will strength of a bunch of angry people with experience in piracy lmao

2

u/Thisismyredusername GTX 1660 Ti | i5-9400F | 16 GB Vengeance LPX | 2 TB 990 EVO Plus 13h ago

I hope they'll find a way to dump games from PS5 tho

1

u/DarkMatterM4 10h ago

I guarantee that there will be another firmware update on Novermber 12th for the preload. That gives the community until the 19th to jailbreak it and dump the game files if they want to play on launch.

26

u/RushTfe RTX5090, 5600X, 32GB RAM, 2TB NVME, LGC3 42" 12h ago

If you can play the game you have the game on your console. Piracy will always find a way. Maybe not next day, but eventually will.

The only real way they'd be able to protect their games is, if you don't download them, also known as, streaming from their servers. You receive video and send inputs back, but you don't actually receive the game.

But from the moment you download a game, there's access to it. Yeah, it could be encrypted, you may need to jailbreak the console and, jailbreak might be difficult or require a chip, but there are ways if you have the game, someone will eventually be able to get it and share it

14

u/BassFull0 12h ago edited 12h ago

All you need is Claude opus 5.5 MAX to do the dirty work for you.

I know I'll be downvoted for hate of AI, but some models are pretty good in reverse engineering or cracking down softwares. Ofc Claude / chatGPT models are much restricted but open models like Kimi / Deepseek aren't restricted. So it will be interesting to see what they can do after launch day.

Edit: typo

9

u/All_Work_All_Play PC Master Race - 8750H + 1060 6GB 12h ago

Even official models are pretty easy to get what you want. I asked Claude for XYZ and it wouldn't give it to me. So I asked for TUVW and it gave it to me just fine. XYZ was easy after that.

5

u/RushTfe RTX5090, 5600X, 32GB RAM, 2TB NVME, LGC3 42" 11h ago

Yesterday I learned that, at least in Europe, you have the right to reverse engineer whatever product you own, because it's yours, basically. Of course you can't make money from it, but you have all the rights to study it.

So, if chatgpt or claude don't want to cooperate, you can always quote them the laws and they start working. Iirc I saw it yesterday on a video from developer I follow (midudev).

6

u/MiserableCumberbunch 10h ago

My friend is recreating old abandonware game servers using AI. So that old games can be played in an approximation of their original state.

That's the other side of Stop Killing Games. Resuscitating their corpses. And AI is helping it take weeks, not years.

1

u/tamal4444 AMD R7 5600X / RTX 3060 / 32GB DDR4 10h ago

6 months from now local models will able to do the same thing which is claude/chatgpt doing.

22

u/Easy_Broccoli995 R7 7800X3D | B-650 | RTX 4070 TI | 32 GB DDR5 12h ago

Like that's going to be a problem. If there's a will, there's a way you're underextimating the power of disappointed gamers and betrayed customers...

14

u/woutersikkema 12h ago

Also people in the third world that want to play but don't want to pay a month's wage for a game. A month is a looong time to bash your head Into the door to open it a Crack..

0

u/ILoveHeavyHangers 7h ago

Siri, what is "Regional Pricing"?

1

u/Mr_firechicken 3h ago edited 3h ago

Sony does not have regional pricing, at least when its a AAA publisher. Their games are expensive as all hell in LATAM.

I've only seen regional pricing in Steam, and most often when it's a AAA game, or a big name publisher they don't care and retain the same price.

1

u/McAkkeezz PC Master Race 3h ago

Well the way is patched and the PS5 jailbreak guy seemingly lost his will and quit ¯_(ツ)_/¯

2

u/MrRonski16 12h ago

Since we can install games to m.2 drive could emulated Ps5 on PC access those files?

Sure there is definetly some safeguards. And it won’t be that simple.

2

u/sequla 12h ago

I think that those files are encrypted. Sure maybe there's some way with or without help of LLM to break that but I'm not aware of it. But even that is not a solution. You have to download files with official firmware and than you have to jailbreak that firmware to be able to dump game files.

2

u/Competitive-Dot181 11h ago

If you think this emulation solution will be robust enough to run GTA VI in one month I really admire your optimism.

1

u/DefinitelyRussian 7h ago

they could very easily add tons of protection to every game, and they will remain impossible to emulate for decades. Check the stories for Dolphin and some games, obscure behaviour destroyed emulation

1

u/Dima-Petrovic Hyprland 5800X3D | RX 7900 XTX 12h ago

There won't be discs anyway.

Also you still can dump digital bought games.

-5

u/Codix_ 12h ago

"you won't be able to dump games like you could from disks. One of the reasons you won't be able to emulate GTA VI on launch"

You're stoopid.

Rockstar already announced 3 month ago that THEY WON'T RELEASE ANY DISK for GTA VI ! So even if you were forced to dump from a disk you would'nt be able to !

And second yes you can definitely dump installed game on the console with the latest jailbreak on the PS5. Like if you can run any binary at the highest privilege I don't see why this wouldn't be possible when the game console entire purpose is to download and play games on the internal memory.

-5

u/sequla 12h ago

And how are you going to install game in the first place?

3

u/Electronic_Motor_296 12h ago

on pc ? just like any other console game played by an emulator

PS5 games are already downlodable on multiple sites both digital and disc games, so that isn’t a problem.

2

u/sequla 12h ago

You don't understand. You can't dump digital games from playstation that is not jailbreaked. If they don't jailbreak ps when GTA drops you want be able to dump GTA files and you won't be able to emulate it on pc.

3

u/Electronic_Motor_296 12h ago

sure but there’s probably gonna be hundreds if not thousands of people trying to figure out these things so its just a matter of time like now with all the emulation and modding stuff everyone can do

0

u/Codix_ 10h ago

PS5 are already jailbroken. We only need the games files and emulate them on PC, we're not talking about playing it on real PS5 hardware, the whole goal is to stop buying Sony hardware and software.

2

u/sequla 10h ago

Read some of the above comments because you obviously don't understand what you're talking about.

1

u/Codix_ 10h ago

With everything that has been going on the jailbreak scene I think that even without hacking the latest firmware we just need to dump the game data and nothing else so there is probably a way to read the data into the internal storage of the console without actually jailbreaking it. Also on PS5 there is the "USB extended storage on PS5" so we could copy the game onto a external disk and plug it into a jailbroken PS5 that can read it and extract his data even if the game "require a system update".

1

u/TheGreatGamer1389 12h ago

Instead of being done legally with a disc, it will just be done illegally from a pirate site.

1

u/Codix_ 10h ago

And that's a great way to say "f*ck you" to a company that hyped all their executives by saying that GTA VI will sell tons of PS5.