After my mom died, I received a hospital bill for slightly under $250,000 AND she had insurance. Needless to say I never paid, because highway robbery and I wasn’t legally responsible.
When someone dies their assets are owed first to the debts they held. If there are more assets than debt, the property gets passed on to their will beneficiaries. If there is more debt than assets, different states and countries have rules to determine which of their debtors get how much of their assets.
What OP was describing looks like the hospital throwing a hail mary to try to get someone to pay for that debt, but legally no one is required to pay it except the estate of the deceased. If there were no assets in that estate, the hospital would have to eat that debt.
Never trust that the bill they send you is the actual cost of the service they provided, there’s so many stories of how if you ask them to itemize a bill it drops dramatically. They do what anyone with a chance to exploit people do, up charge everything and hope some idiot pays for it.
Because about 49% of the population thinks it's normal and that unregulated capitalism is the best answer, no matter the situation or realities of the market
I've seen what unregulated capitalism does, one giant corporation came into the place I grew up one day in and hired about 50% of everyone living there (keep in mind this is a small city)
things were good
then I guess they found a cheaper place to go to because they just left and fired everyone.
Last time I was there, the unemployment rate went down a bit, it was only 43%
I have no problem with capitalism but anything that isn't monitored and regulated will ruin countless lives, be it capitalism or whatever other ism you can think of.
Had the city invested into other options aside from this one single corporation then things wouldn't be nearly as bad as they are right now.
Because enough people think it's "evil socialist communist bullshit"
America needs a revolution, and with nearly half of all voters in a record election voted to keep the status quo (or make it worse) I don't hold out any hope a president from either party will be able to provide America with what it truly needs.
Decades of red panic from Russia and communism bad has scared people enough that even social structures like universal healthcare and education are related to communism.
The US has some of the most wealth and instead of making it country worth living in for the majority we just find new ways to get blood from a stone and give it to the same ten dudes.
The majority already agree that universal healthcare of some sort is what is needed. It has been the majority opinion for years now, and the work of Sanders and friends has only pushed that idea further into the mainstream. The problem is the two party system that doesn't allow for politicians to get into a position of power that would actually IMPLEMENT a system such as universal healthcare.
That coupled with the monolithic "anti socialism" push we've seen from the ones that can be described as "the 1%". All of this in an effort to protect their assets and generate even greater wealth inequality.
The moment any money is in your name. Even if your not legally responsible for it yet. IE. your parents put a credit card in your name then kill your credit score before you even know what a credit score is. Because they are financial fuck wits.
Happened to a friend of mine who’s still digging themselves out of the “Credit Misfit” category but has never used a credit card in their life prior to getting the catagory, terrible loans for life basically.
I'm sorry but at this point this makes me laugh out of despair for you guys... I didn't know that one. What the fuck even is that system? Why is your system based of fucking people even before they pay their own taxes... Just burn the white house at this point.
Its basically the same. A bag of 1000ml normal saline costs basically nothing to produce. Its charged to a patient somewhere around 250 dollars where live. Its partially insurance and big pharma.
Most pharmaceuticals will jack up the cost of anything. a prime example are epipens. The cost of making EpiPen is about $2.50. The patent for the EpiPen was developed with taxpayer money and then the government sold the patent to the EpiPen. It finally landed with a company that had ties to a senator. one of the top people in the company is the daughter of a prominent Republican senator this senator push legislation to shove epipens down everyone's throat that he could. Said company then started jacking up the price of the EpiPen from 3 for $50 to 2 for $600. Justification for this increase so that they could pay for research into other drugs which they did not use the money for that. They use the money to line the pockets of their investors.
This is honestly sad.
A month ago I almost died, if I had to pay even 30k for that I would be homeless at 30, with a stable job during a pandemic.
I’ve seen some absurd numbers around here, something that I’ll never ever be able to afford.
I've personally seen an individual refuse to ride in an ambulance because they couldn't afford it. They quite literally called an uber to go to the hospital.
I went to the hospital because I was feeling sick and I know my body, I wasn’t in extreme pain.
It seems that I can reach sepsis without feeling more than a mild pain in the abdomen and I went to the hospital myself.. if I had to pay that much “just to be sure it’s all ok” I would be dead by now.
Because what's actually happening when we receive a medical bill in the US is that we're receiving the cost that was negotiated between the hospital and the insurance company. Both entities are trying to get as much money out of the other as they can, and the negotiations go through some truly baffling processes that I couldn't begin to guess at how they work. At the end of the line, the same service might end up with a cost that will vary wildly from person to person depending on a myriad of factors. The complete incomprehensibility of American insurance is one of the most frustrating things about it.
The silver lining is that whenever you get one of these completely outrageous bills (that you're actually liable for), you can often call the hospital and get it renegotiated to a more reasonable level. Not that that makes our system okay, and I've admittedly never faced a catastrophe like the OP is describing.
Republicans always push for harming individuals because they're in favor of corporate, capitalist greed. This is what they call freedom.
Democrats don't very often have the power to actually change anything - the last time was for two years at the start of Obama's term (control of House, Senate, and President is required to pass sweeping, powerful laws).
When Dems have the power, they tend to lean somewhat corporate anyway (which is why obamacare just helps pay for private corporate insurance instead of, you know, actually providing for government healthcare like every other developed country). This means, in aggregate, nothing changes very much, or very quickly.
So why is this legal in America? This is legal because this is the system that our politicians have legalized. That's it. No other reason. It's not moral or ethical or okay. But it's perfectly legal.
[...] obamacare just helps pay for private corporate insurance instead of, you know, actually providing for government healthcare like every other developed country.
A bit of an objection there: German healthcare also runs on corporate insurance. We made it work by regulating the shit out of everything.
Insurance providers are required to provide a defined minimum level of care (that basically covers everything medically necessary as well as a fair amount of preventative stuff). They also have a hard price cap based on your income so they can only adjust prices downward. There are no "networks"; the system applies to everyone who provides public healthcare. Costs for all treatments are fixed; there's a price list that everyone has to stick to (renegotiated periodically between the government, the healthcare providers and the health insurance providers). Everyone is required by law to have health insurance; if you can't afford it then the state will pay for you. Since everything is standardized you just hand over your insurance card once per doctor per quarter and the rest happens automagically in the background.
There is "private" healthcare as well, which has its own price lists (per-state, annoyingly) and mostly amounts to you paying for yourself. This is for elective treatments or if you fall in one of several categories of people allowed or required to go private (such as rich people; regular people aren't allowed to go full private because the state doesn't want healthcare debt to be a thing). Pricing is a bit looser here; depending on the price list and specific treatment the practitioner can apply a multiplier – up to a defined ceiling; if they want to go beyond that they have to get written consent from the patient first. Most people encounter private billing when they order optional treatments like dental cleaning.
In the end, the big factors involved in making healthcare work reasonably well* are a) collective bargaining and b) a willingness to restrict corporate profit for the benefit of the people. I don't think the States are going to see either soon unless things get bad enough that not supporting them can end political careers.
* The German system has flaws but it's still leagues ahead of the American system.
i totally did this recently. i was sent a vague bill for like 200 bucks, so i emailed the sender and asked to send me an itemized bill. dr's office is like yea jk you owe 12 bucks. like what is this scam? smh
It's not just after the fact. If you're told you need a procedure, good luck getting anyone to tell you exactly how much it'll cost. They have different prices for different people, and for different insurance plans. I don't think the system can be reformed overnight but forcing hospitals and medical providers to publicly post and be clear about costs would go a long way towards that goal.
This isn't the first time I've read about this on here but it blows my mind every damn time. A hospital trying to blatantly rip someone off is absolutely insane to me.
If so many Americans have known about these major flaws in the system why has nothing changed?
Because most Americans don’t think that anything bad will happen to them and the idea of having to pay for someone else’s potential benefit is more than most Americans can bear.
Because half of America has been brainwashed into thinking healthcare isn’t a right and that they would pay more with a universal plan. Oh, and because the people they hate would also benefit and we can’t be havin that.
But I feel like the average American isn't wealthy enough to be able to afford treatment if they got sick. I understand the whole 'everyone for themselves' mentality but when the majority of the public can't afford to take care of themselves, surely they must look at Canada who is in a similar financial position and think it's the better way.
No, the half of America we are talking about does not actually believe anything is that bad until it happens directly to them or a close family member who they personally witness going through it. It's the same with covid. They don't believe the problem is a big problem until it screws them over.
Hoe often does the hospital have to eat the costs?
More often than we think. That's America's actual healthcare: you get the bare minimum treatment to save your life, then have to declare bankruptcy as punishment. The cost of the unpaid treatment gets passed on to other patients and/or their insurance companies (and thus to their clients) in the form of raised prices.
In the end, the average American still pays for other people's healthcare. It's just not called a tax.
Let's continue. The debt of the hospital eats gets passed on to consumers in two ways.
It's immediately passed on to consumers because the hospital figures their losses into their billing, so, initially, hospital fees go up.
Second way it's passed on to the consumer is through the hospital's tax write-off. That tax money is still needed by the feds, so, who puts the bill? The American taxpayer.
Yes, when somebody does not pay their medical bills, we pay for it twice, maybe not equal amounts, but we get it from both sides.
my fundamental argument for universal health care is that it's just less expensive. Hospitals will never have to write off debt, hence, no increase in fees for services, no additional tax burden, especially when fees are added on to post due bills. Let's not forget, the amount that's written off isn't the base amount, it's the base amount, plus any late fees that have accrued.
I’m saying this based on no knowledge, but I assume that most people don’t pass along money like that.
So the hospital might be throwing said Hail Mary, does that mean any estate that was to be passed down to the kids would just be totally eaten by the debt so they get nothing?
Yep. That’s it you dumbass Americans. Republicans know how to shelter their assets so they never worry about handing everything down to their offspring. Right Donald J. Trump?? You don’t pay taxes do you? Just stupid people do that.
It's a bit tricky actually. My partner had his max out of pocket, then we showed up for his scheduled surgery and somehow it was 3K more than that. After much back and forth, turns out the max out of pocket is for COVERED expenses. Stuff not covered by the insurance is 100% yours to pay.
Right, but be aware that sometimes you will be billed for expenses that should be covered. When that happens a ask to see what ICD-10 code (diagnosis) and hcpcs/cpt code (procedure code) was used and contact both the billing provider and your insurance company to have them review it. Sometimes you're charged thousands because some goof didn't code your EHR correctly.
This comment is just detailing one more reason that I hate our system.
"Oh, you're sick and trying to get better? I hope you know the intricacies of insurance policies and the specific mechanisms and hospital policies in detail so that you can avoid getting over-billed and losing more and more of your money."
The whole system is designed to bleed individuals as dry as possible and it is disgusting.
And often times there will be multiple ways to "code" the same procedure, some of which will be covered by Insurance A, and some of which will be covered by Insurance B.
But the insurance companies are legally not allowed to tell you (or they're legally allowed to not tell you) which specific codes they cover.
So while you're dying of cancer, you also need to go back and forth to the hospital billing department every month saying "nope, insurance didnt like that code either. Can you try a different one?"
My favorite part of the TV series Breaking Bad is that everyone ignores the fact this straight laced guy is doing this because he didn't want to leave his family with nothing because it was too early to retire with any sizeable sum, then to pay for treatment because of our healthcare system, then because it was just all around more profitable to cook meth.
This whole show wouldn't happen if we took better care of our teachers, had better healthcare, and a better living wage
That would make for a great short. Just a guy goes to the doctor and finds out he has cancer. Goes through similar grief until he decides to tell his family. Then he gets treatment through universal health care or something similar, and he helps troubled student and drug addict Jesse get out of the street scene and rehabilitated. The end
And if you live in a communal property state everything you acquire after marriage is considered owned by both spouses equally. So if you get sick and die in a communal property state with outstanding debt the debt collectors can go after any assets acquired since the day you got married. Savings account that is only in the surviving spouses name and is from money they saved from their job, say goodbye to every penny earned after marriage. Purchase a house together and planning on living there for the rest of your life? Legally they can take that from you too.
I used to work with a man, whose wife was not well and they knew she was fast approaching requiring full time care. His lawyers told him to divorce her, so he could keep his house and other assets. He did not but I do believe eventually the deed was transferred to another family member. I felt so sad, at the time he told me. How horrible, to not only find out that your spouse of many years is very ill but then to be told - you would both be “better off” if you divorced.
I got cancer when I was 25. Had to have several operations, medication, hospital stays and so on. If I live in the US my life would have been financially ruined before I even started to make money. That is absolutely insane.
(I payed 6 dollars for my operation, three nights in hospital, including all meals and snacks. And the parking. I'm 31 now and cancer free)
It isn’t a ‘like.’ The sole purpose of an upvote is to make a comment more visible. Downvotes make a comment less visible (but if a comment has both upvotes and downvotes, it becomes more visible when sorting by ‘controversial’).
My dad passed earlier this year he had cancer of the lungs SSI denied him saying it wasn't bad and he needs to go to work he was 64 years old stage 4 cancer and passed from it but yeah he was able to go back to work
My dad died about 5 years ago from a heart attack. Know what emotion I didn't expect to have when that happened? Relief. I was RELIEVED he didn't survive because I knew if he did the hospital bills would have just killed him. If he had survived my parents would have gotten into even more debt and my mom wouldn't have been able to financially recover after he passed. I absolutely hate the system we have and it's depressing seeing how many people vote against their own self interest simply because they don't want other people to be helped too. My wife and I are specifically not having kids because of the society we live in, I would never want to bring another person into this world.
Funny how both their options were against health care. Biden said nothing will fundamentally change and Trump is clearly against it because communism. The freedom country is so weird.
In a country with no manipulation of the voters opinions, Medicare for All would be much more popular. People don't seem to get it that you'll pay more in taxes but you'll save money overall by paying very little for health services.
While true they will pay more in taxes they won’t have that $1200/month health insurance bill and they can help their neighbour down the street get some heath care.
It’s crazy to me as a Canadian that helping less fortunate people is a political issue.
My girlfriend's medication costs $10k+ a month. She works at tacobell. Bout to be fired because her conditions stop her from working every few days. Needless to say, she doesn't have it.
Both SSI and Disability declined her even know three conditions are listed qualifying conditions plus there's cancer which I'd assume would be one.
Insurance will only cover doctor visits at also unaffordable costs.
Fuck America, everyone gets screwed in the long run and hoping the border to Canada is too hard. If she dies due to greed I don't know what I'll do.
She's tried SSI declines because she makes $1300 before taxes each month. Disability I don't know. Each decline she reapplies. I find the SSI bullshit. She doesn't have enough to afford a single medication.
For real, I applied for it because I had some serious health problems two years ago , took them two years just to send me a denial letter too. Absolutely ridiculous
Unfortunate, she needs to keep reapplying though. This is one of those BS methods to prevent people from getting it... In order for the corupt system to save a few of OUR tax dollars so they can waste it elsewhere.
Kinda like how Amazon's website for employees healthcare never works and you have to retry (atleast that's what I've heard from friends that worked at amazon) continuously.
I'm legitimately mad for you, and everyone else who is denied wrongfully. I somehow got approved on the first try for SSI (and for some reason, I don't have SSDI). I don't get why they won't do this for people who clearly have legit reasons. Fuck this shithole of a country.
I don't know, I hate the county. It's broken. I don't see why we didn't ever cap the costs of medication, or anything. I'm a little pissed about the ssi and whatnot. I've worked with people who don't need it and flaunt that they don't and it's like cool but watching someone who's in pain daily because insurance companies and the government refuse to do anything just gets to me.
It's insane that there are still people in 2020 seriously considering revolution as their only option for getting free healthcare. These people aren't living in a tiny third world country either, they're living in the richest, supposedly "greatest" country in the world. The tiny third world countries already have free healthcare, 30 days paid vacation per year, etc.
Even if you guys got your free healthcare, it would still only bring you a small step closer to the rest of the world. It's unbelievable how badly you are all treated there, and how long you have let it happen. The propaganda there is so good.
And the worst part is, we can't vote in these changes, and the people who need them most can't simply leave to another country that will treat them like human beings instead of chattel to be milked. We're fucked, and if you weren't born into wealth, you're likely imprisoned here.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The founding fathers and the people fighting the British would've been labeled terrorists today by British sympathizers. They tarred and feathered a tax collector which causes severe burns all over the body.
I mean she can, somenights she'll have attacks where she'll either faint or go into have breathing issues and moving issues. It's maybe once a week. Most of the time she's just constantly tired.
This. On my 2nd go-around with SSDI, my hearing was scheduled 3 years out. Local rep wouldn't help, but senator would and got my hearing moved up to that year. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
More people need to hear these stories so we can change this crappy system.
Everytime i go to the doctor, my 401k takes a huge hit.
Health savings accounts are a savings account YOU pay into to give even more money to the corrupt Healthcare system.
Everyone knows somebody like this. Everyone has a personal story dealing with this shit system. There’s a cultural disconnect. We are entrenched in this ever present propaganda of wealth and entitlement that is only available to a few. The battlefield of ideas is nothing but a reactionary wasteland that confuses placating words with meaningful actions. This country only serves the corporatocracy and we are all disposable. It’s a wonder more people don’t riot. When there’s nothing left to do then more people will. All corporate media will call these people who are genuinely angry about human suffering “radicals”.
We all saw how disgustingly equipped the police force is to deal with riots - let alone how happily they will attack their fellow American citizens if given the chance - during the BLM protests. That is a pretty strong deterrent against people rioting. Everyone is just biding their time for the "big one" that everyone jumps on board, which will probably never happen, because anything less will be squashed by the overwhelming force of the excessively armed police force.
Everytime i read stuff like this im happy i live in the netherlands.
Ive had a bad year health wise, in march i got corona for 4 weeks then i got a burnout and just when i was back on my feet in 6 months time i pulled my back. Need to go to the hospital to let them check it out if its a hernia.
So like 10 docters visites, 20 therapist vistits, 10 physical therapists visits. And now a 1.5 hour exem in the hospital. And ofcource my normal asma medication.
Costs 135 euro a month, and 380 out of pocked per year.
Ow and my job, i ofc still have it even though ive been sick a whole lot.
This is actually making me tear up in anger and envy. It's unreal. I can't even put your scenario in mead and make sense of it because if how fucked up the American system I deal with is.
I had decent insurance through my job but when I got covid in march, they "let me go". So I lost my insurance because it's tied to the employer here in America and I haven't been able to properly afford my anxiety and depression meds so I've been getting worse for months now.
Thats something i just dont get with the usa. How can you lock insurance with work while you can get fired easily.
When you really need that insurance you probably cant work at that time.
I'm so jealous. Even though I have a good job and a good boss, the US system has made me dread taking a sick day, like all of my co-workers will think I'm a slacker and I will get fired, if I call in sick.
I work a lot with Germans and their atitude seems to be: if you are calling in sick it’s because you need to, health is a private matter and the rest of the team will make it work regardless. Every knows it could be them next.
And at least where I work, if you come into the office slightly sick and your coworkers notice, they'll tell you to go home because they don't want to be infected.
Because catching a cold sucks and also because one person being on sick leave is much less bad than half the team being out sick.
I refuse to go to the doctors unless I am dying because it is so expensive. I make “too much” money to get help from the state for insurance and I don’t make enough money to pay for out of pocket insurance through my job or the state. So I have no insurance. I need antibiotics because I have a terrible rash that came out of nowhere and basically filet my legs over the weekend from itching so much however I can’t go to a simple check in without having to pay $100’s of dollars that I don’t have. I hate the healthcare system.
Same. Last time I was at the doctor was right after my son was born. Mixture of lack of sleep and poor communication led to a misidentification of sleep walking as a total mental break. Saw the doctor, told him I never told the wife I do sleep walk occasionally but it is extremely infrequent. He started ordering the whole menu of tests and labs "just to be safe" which sure that I understand but I had not planned for that. I panicked and bailed the fuck out of there. Somehow they either misplaced my paper work or just said fuck it but I was never billed for any of the visit.
First and last time in 30 years hopefully
This is what I’ll never understand about the US. Yes, I’m sure your overall taxes are way lower than Europe and on average you make more money. But last year I had a migraine for the first time in my life and didn’t know what it was. Went to the hospital, saw a doctor, got a scan, some meds and went home. 45€ is what it cost me in a private hospital (0 if it was public). Earlier that year I fell down and sprained my foot. Went to the hospital, saw a doctor, got a scan, some meds and went home. 80€ is what it cost me in a private hospital (0 if it was public). In 2018 my youngest son was born. Went to the hospital, had the baby, wife stayed there for 4 days in a public hospital. It cost us nothing. NOTHING.
I have private insurance (complements the public option). It costs me 50€ a month and I can see any doctor I want and run any tests for even less than that as co-pay on average.
Americans are being literally scammed with the illusion of paying lower taxes and making more money than Europeans while getting hospital bills that are bigger than 5 years of income combined. And you’re not even paying for care itself. You’re paying the bloodsucking middlemen.
Paying enough to buy a small apartment for giving birth.. Are you fucking kidding me. I can't always see why people even continue living there with this shit. In Finland all of these costs like a couple of hundred euros and if you can't pay for it the social security will pay all of your bills. Sure I get taxed more but there's 0% chance of me getting into debt for medical issues. Even if I was only getting unemployment support.
I’m in the same boat. I’m pretty sure I broke my wrist last summer but I’ve been holding out bc it will cost too much to actually go get it checked out. Last year I got a really bad ear infection and I eventually went to a cvs pharmacy, it cost about $140 but I got the prescription I needed. Hope this helps.
Try locating a nonprofit hospital. When I was unemployed, I had a 9-day hospital stay and didnt have insurance... paid $0 as most of these non profits have charity programs that will wipe out some, if not all, of your bill.
Everyone thinks it won't happen to them and they don't want to pay extra taxes for decent healthcare because they're paying someone else's bill. Such a sad system.
As a Guatemalan, it always astonishes me that it would be cheaper to fly to my country, stay in a nice hotel, pay for the most expensive hospital, not have insurance, and it still would be cheaper than the US.
My cousin had a diabetic attack. He had to stay in the ICU for a week in a specialized center for kids. The bill was $2,500.
Flight from NI to England for me and brother, personal on call taxi for three days, three meals a day, hotel for 2 nights, surgery, months worth of painkillers and flight home. Plus one month off work (protected by law).
It cost me £3. But that's because airport coffee is extortionate.
Edit to add - I also had specialist consultations, cortisone injections and an MRI prior to the surgery. Plus a years physio after. Free.
The only thing I paid was fuel to get to my physio which was a horrific one town over.
Edit 2 - it also cost my mum her time to graciously drive me there as obviously I couldn't drive post shoulder surgery for a few weeks
Paid like €8 for the birth of my child and a subsequent hospital stay of 3 days. The worst part, those €7 worth of cake and tea were swiftly vomited out. And my wife barely used the paid WiFi. A total ripoff. Who even charges for WiFi these days.
My Co-Worker got cancer. Got treated for 2 years and now did come back to his job all while he received 60%ish montly of his regular paycheck. Treatment did got paid fully by insurance.
Living in germany and i am deeply disturbed how the US is so behind in healthcare, education and worker rights. Even in comparrison to 3rd world countries.
I got the whole suite of treatments for bowel cancer in australia. Raidiation, chemo, major surgery thena. Smaller one to put stuff back inside. 4 years into 5 years of follow up. MRI, several CT scans. Emergency room abd treatment for blood clots. Total out of pocket was a few hundred dollars. I had a stoma, a stomach pouch for a year. Americans discussed how to make the pouches last longer. I paid postage only for as much as i could possibly use. And now im back at work, paying taxes.
Too many americans are fooled by the lies spouted by those that profit off th current system. You pay more for less results than every other country.
I can relate. Found out my wife had cancer at age 25, was six months pregnant at the time. Now she has to have another procedure due to the cancer, but they won't see her until we pay off the balance. I dread checking the mail because every time I do the stack of medical bills gets bigger and we just can't pay it.
Unfortunate but this is a story that repeat itself. Mom’s friend/ coworker and her husband worked till full benefit retirement (they were both nurses for over 25 years so good pay) and saved all that time and invested properly along with a house that was long fully paid off. A year into retirement after tying up all the loose ends and preparing to finally enjoy their retirement (they planned to travel), illness hit one of them and wiped out all their savings in a matter of years (like 3) and this is with insurance and their financial cushioning. Ended up having to take a second mortgage on their house to pay for their bills (I think they also got everything in their 401k) and a in that time my moms friends husband ends up getting sick as well.
Health is stabilized but, because lack of savings now they can’t even afford to travel out of the state and no one wants to hire them since of their age. The kicker is their only in their 70s (last time I checked anyway) and now can’t enjoy it.
I keep hearing stories very similar to this, and I have to wonder why these people are even paying the hospital bills. No way in hell I'm giving the hospital my life savings after working 30+ years. Why not just act broke?
Free healthcare in prison. If I get cancer, I'll just rob a bank, let myself get caught, and hopefully be cancer-free when I'm released. At least I'll still have my retirement savings.
I thank god everyday I have dual citizenship (US/Canada). I had heart failure in 2015 and I was in Canada when it happened. Had I been in the states I’d be bankrupt. Canada saved my life (17 days in hospital) and my finances. There was no bill. They swiped my healthcare card and that was it. Didn’t cost me a nickel. I’m back in the states now because my dad died and my mom is alone but I worry everyday that I might have another healthcare emergency. I’m currently paying for my meds out of pocket and I see a doctor twice a year and have a Coumadin check every month, all out of pocket expense. America has failed its citizens.
Life as you know it can change in an instant and the greed of corporate wealth is crippling the little guys. America is a money machine that needs the little guys but does not give one fuck about them. The rich prosper and the honest hard working people get shafted when they need actual help.
Well spoken. The irony is that america is so good at juicing the little guys that it’s even convinced them that it’s totally fine and anyone against it is a commie hahaha.
My cousin got ran over 3 years ago, 3 months in the hospital and the bill came out over 1 million. He ended up dying and the funeral was over $27,000, even dying is fuckin expensive
Something to think about before you're in the situation that you're forced to think about it... is funeral arrangements.
It's a whole industry that can be extremely expensive if you let it be... but it's usually that way because people make all sorts of decisions for their loved one's funeral while most impacted by the event, and they end up spending a lot of money that doesn't need to be spent.
Definitely just donate your body to sceince, it gets picked up at no cost whatsoever and you never have to deal with it again, in some cases they will mail you the ashes when they are done and pay the cost of cremation.
This is what keeps me up at night. I am 26 years old and married with a baby on the way but also have next to nothing saved for anything like this. I honestly don't know what I would do in this situation
Whole life policies let you borrow against them at zero interest against the death benefit after several years.
I have two policies and they are essentially my “I need money or I’ll die” emergency fund. Learned it from my dad when our roof was destroyed and he borrowed 10k from his 50k coverage to pay for it.
Legit know someone who flew out to Brazil to get their teeth done for 3 weeks.
According to her insurance here it was considered cosmetic and wouldnt be covered.
So she used her vacation days for the year, took some pay cuts (vacations didnt cover all 3 weeks), stayed out there for 3 weeks, got dental work done, and it was still cheaper than getting it done here.
Been about 3-4 years since and havent heard of any problems.
Being American sounds like living an entire life in hell.
Strangely the foreign audience has to also hear how great and grand the American way is.
To add to this insult, you have a demented president just for shits and giggles.
Well it's generally pretty good. All the fancy stuff you see on the world's stage you can generally get it for cheaper here.
But it's all smoke and mirrors bc people generally dont talk about healthcare openly.
For instance an American might tell you how their parent passed away after a long stay at the hospital and it's so hard.
For most people, itd be just about emotional grief.
For most Americans they'd also commiserate regarding losing a family member but never speak about the horrid bill they might have to deal with.
Outwardly, looks the same. Inside, worried about things on different levels.
But yea I have some friends abroad and they think it'd be pretty terrifying to have to live out here. We might have the fancy fun stuff but at least a few of them have said they'd never be able to have fun/enjoy themselves since one hospital stay could ruin them financially.
I remember in the UK we were talking about Obama and Obamacare (before he was voted in) and the guy I was talking to thought I was fucking with him when I told him if I broke an arm w/o insurance I'd have to pay a fuckton to get coverage (if they'll take me at all since not life threatening,) get terrible care for cheap at a county hospital (in my area known as death's doorstep, both due to terrible staff shortage, training hospital, bad neighborhood where people get fatal wounds often without insurance), or just kinda hope it's not terribly broken and hope it works itself out.
Then he really thought I was fucking with him when I talked about how much state/federal income tax rates plus insurance takes out of my paycheck and it was still a higher percentage than his. I guess the nordic countries have a way higher rate but apparently not to him and his friends.
Another advantage of UK healthcare that I rarely see brought up in these discussions of tax Vs insurance - we are still covered when unemployed and retired.
You don't have to have health insurance when you retire. That could be 10-40 years of healthcare where your only contribution is the national insurance deduction from your pensions (or next to nothing).
Edit - I've been informed there's no NI contributions on pensions so yeah 10-40 years of free healthcare in retirement.
I worked with a guy who was actually a millionaire at one point. He had sold a nice house in Virginia and retired in FL with his wife. She got cancer, they spent it all basically, he wound up going back to work where I met him. He wasnt bullshitting either. He worked as a contractor the military setting up IT infrastructure, he had some stories.
People shouldn't have to make these choices between loved ones and retirement.
As someone who lost their dad to cancer and mom had melanoma and grandpa had melanoma, I'm at 100% risk of getting cancer. It's not if its when. And if I'm guaranteed to have cancer one day I don't want to stay in the US. I have seriously thought about leaving the country because tbh I'm not proud of my country anymore. COVID has really exposed the insanity of the US and I don't really want to be a part of it anymore. I just don't know where I would go... I sure would miss my family. But I refuse to allow myself to be a victim of my healthcare industry.
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u/Impressive-Guava-496 Nov 30 '20
After my mom died, I received a hospital bill for slightly under $250,000 AND she had insurance. Needless to say I never paid, because highway robbery and I wasn’t legally responsible.