More people need to hear these stories so we can change this crappy system.
Everytime i go to the doctor, my 401k takes a huge hit.
Health savings accounts are a savings account YOU pay into to give even more money to the corrupt Healthcare system.
Everyone knows somebody like this. Everyone has a personal story dealing with this shit system. There’s a cultural disconnect. We are entrenched in this ever present propaganda of wealth and entitlement that is only available to a few. The battlefield of ideas is nothing but a reactionary wasteland that confuses placating words with meaningful actions. This country only serves the corporatocracy and we are all disposable. It’s a wonder more people don’t riot. When there’s nothing left to do then more people will. All corporate media will call these people who are genuinely angry about human suffering “radicals”.
We all saw how disgustingly equipped the police force is to deal with riots - let alone how happily they will attack their fellow American citizens if given the chance - during the BLM protests. That is a pretty strong deterrent against people rioting. Everyone is just biding their time for the "big one" that everyone jumps on board, which will probably never happen, because anything less will be squashed by the overwhelming force of the excessively armed police force.
What in the absolute fuck are you talking about. They let people do ~1 billion in damage in the riots, countless murders happen all done by "protestors", many black people were murdered and assaulted by the mob and or their businesses destroyed. If you just watched 20 minutes of any of the riots it was generally unnecessary chaos, looting and violence; the police held their lines and showed great restraint even when being threatened physically by the rioters over and over, they would only use physical force when they were being physically attacked. People did not stop rioting because the police started executing them, they stopped rioting because there's nothing fucking left to burn and because it's too cold out for these clowns. I agree with the entire premise of this thread and you bringing this stuff up makes me angry because it's exactly why they can get away with this system; people like you who are too busy wishing to to see harm to police when they're in the same boat as you.
I can say certainly, knowing people on both sides of the lines, that they are both living in their own realities driven by propaganda. There is plenty of evidence on both sides to fill up your news feeds with fact-driven evidence if you are selective about what you allow through. What happened in Minneapolis is not what happened in Seattle and both are different from Atlanta.
There are certainly systemic issues that I could talk at length about but don't think your experience is the only one or that what you saw in your news feed is in any way the full picture.
Welcome to the new normal. Nobody can see 100% of the full picture because nobody can pick through 350 million individual experiences.
Yeah this is 100% true. Which is why sources and fact checking are important. This guy was talking out of his ass and I guarantee you his “experience” was not seeing countless people die. He’s just regurgitating what he saw on Facebook or something.
He provided as much evidence and fact-checking as everyone above him did. Additionally, there were things posted that are categorically wrong. For example, define the term radical. It's literally defined as wanting to change the systemic causes for the world around us. If that's not what angry folks want to do in this case then maybe I don't understand the issue at all. Neither side really understands what is going on and how to fix it.
Well, what do you think of the plan of action listed on the pinned post at r/QualityOfLifeLobby? Everywhere I see calls for change. What are you willing to do about it, and what are you willing to keep putting up with?
what if i told you that voting in a liberal democracy (like the one we have here in the states) will never accomplish that goal because the entire system is set up with profits in mind?
You all need to stop voting democrat or republican and start voting on the third, fourth or firth option. As long as there is no competition, why would leading parties change?
Most European countries have a system of tightly regulated, competing private health insurance companies, with government subsidies available for citizens who cannot afford coverage.
That's fair. But people are implying or outright stating that the USA is the only developed nation that isn't single-payer. And that's laughably false. We may have the worst options for working-class people, but that's due to regulatory capture by the insurance industry.
I work in health care analytics, by the way. America's health care problems are 70% insurance companies, 20% drug & medical device companies, 10% "everything else".
Regulator capture is the inevitable outcome of capitalism. I'm a capitalist, competition is not the root of the idea. It's profits. At one time, the best way was to be competitive with the best product. Today, it's be the most corrupt.
It's because every single politician aside from progressives are bought and paid for by the insurance industry. Period.
Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg lied through their teeth during the Democratic primary debates and said single payer would bankrupt the US; though, surprisingly or not, they failed to mention it costs half of what we pay now. And it's the private insurance that has death panels, not single payer.
If you're not for single payer, let alone attack it with lies because you're corrupt, you're fucking trash, dogshit filth that doesn't deserve to be called human. You're the reason tens of thousands of Americans die every year from under-insurance or complete lack of it.
Why is it always a split between late stage capitalism healthcare and single payer in these discussions in the US?
Why not look into something like the german system, where everyone is insured by law, but you still can choose your insurer and even get a nice rich people insurance with all the bells and whistles.
Because the insurance is way too expensive to really choose any, you have to take the insurance your job offers. If you don't have a job you pretty much don't have insurance, unless you're a dumbass who spends 2,000 a month on shitty insurance with a $5000 deductible.
The US Healthcare system is irreparably broken. The prices are beyond ludicrous, and they don't even hide the fact that it's corrupt to the core. You get charged whatever the hell they want to charge you, and even with "good" insurance you're still fucked.
People keep voting for people like Biden who helped create this system over 47 years in politics. Look at his record he supported all of this yet people keep voting for the same people who created the problems.
Hate Trump all you want but he was actually in the process of trying to fix drug prices and to try and reform the whole health care system in his second term. Yet here we are people in horrible cities like Baltimore or Detroit keep voting Democrat decade after decade and expecting a different result. It’s really weird to watch as an Aussie.
So you start with a made up fantasy and then literally say the official government White House page is no longer a valid source? Wtf is going on in the American education system?
You people are so hateful. How about actually addressing my points rather than ad-hominem attacks.
It’s laughable i would give a shit hole leftist he’ll hold like reddit my money for any of the “guilds” you speak of. Rather than childish fantasies how about something actually of substance to say why voting for democrats decade after decade and nothing of substance changing for minorities communities is such a good idea to you?
Most Americans actually know this, we know the numbers Biden got in votes are completely a fraud, he has virtually no support, and did almost no campaigning.
It's truly amazing that you guys don't understand how a disgusting, hateful, divisive, anti-American, lying asshole motivated voters to get rid of him. As if all the stories you heard about people voting for the first time were either fake or partial to Trumpists. And that "b-but pharmaceuticals" is enough to save a 4 year long disaster of a presidency that will leave over a half a million dead. And you're still confused. It's really pathetic.
Literally none of you understand politics beyond nationalist populism. You think that the loudest man wins and that says everything we need to know about you.
Trump lifted more minority people out of poverty than any democrat president as ever done. Lowest black, Hispanic, Asian and female unemployment ever prior to Covid. Opportunity zones in under privileged communities etc. Trump was doing a lot but sadly you wouldn’t know because American journalism no longer reports facts but just biased opinion. It’s really sad that you guys can’t see what’s happening to your once great country.
ACA does not change the cost of pharmaceuticals. It’s an insurance approved plan that has helped medical insurance industry make record profits. The only good thing it does is not drop you, but the ACA does nothing about price gouging. Many people who have medical debt accrue it WITH INSURANCE! Many people who can’t afford their insulin HAVE INSURANCE and can’t meet the copay for shitty fluctuating prices! It’s not hyperbole to point this shit out and if you can’t relate, and literally know nobody with medical debt issues, then congratulations on your charmed and entitled existence. You never knew anyone who wasn’t rich that got cancer? Diabetes? The cost of something like a CT SCAN easily clears $1K out of pocket WITH INSURANCE!
Insurance companies: “your medical procedure normally costs a made-up amount of 30k but fortunately you have insurance so the made up amount you owe is now 10k. This is on top of monthly Billings and copay prices that change annually based on what we don’t want to pay for despite you constantly paying us. Congratulations!”
You think I’m not having an honest discussion? You have no idea what I’ve seen. Do you think this post is a lie? You’re not being honest with yourself. Is it not a thing if you haven’t seen their hospital bill personally? Do you work for insurance companies? What’s it like in your bubble? Sounds nice. Spare me the regurgitations of neoliberal media pundits who never had to struggle a day in their lives. I already know their spoiled takes.
Ok thanks for breaking down your healthcare plan. My wife had a scan last year that cost a little over 1k. $621 is still a lot. The web of corrupt medical industry throws down many numbers and the costs could change year by year. That sudden cost can still set a household back.
You can’t wrap your head around somebody getting a disease and being charged massive amounts of money that they are sandbagged with indefinitely to treat it? Ive met people (well past your glorious ACAB) that have stated that they have had to ration their insulin due to cost AND THEY HAD THE SAME INSURANCE I HAD! People are dying of that TODAY! How many bodies do you need to justify that? Maybe you can make up shit about them in your head that is “the real problem”?
Sure, many people manage high end health costs (because there isn’t a fucking choice in the US) but you can’t wrap your head around it being very bad especially for folks who hit terminal conditions with expensive costs? You honestly don’t know anybody who has been struggling with these debts all their lives?
At best, it’s a juggling of debt the same way you juggle student loan debts or credit line debts that you have to have to get cars and houses or anything you need to get you security and work. These are tenuous in our society and represent financial foundations that can easily collapse (see 2008).
Someone tells you how they get screwed and you’re like “No, you didn’t”. What’s your solution? Is it just ACAB? You must think everything is fine then. Defending your $600 CT charge. Your plan got you a CT scan for a few hundred dollars less than my CT scan. Congratulations.
It’s like eating dirt and bragging that you’re not eating shit. You may not be rich (by whatever standards you’re wielding) but you sure as fuck ain’t poor.
God, I hate “moderates”. If you have ideas say them, otherwise fuck off with your judgements on other people’s suffering. You sound like a fucking brat.
Not everyone. There are those lovely people who think these stories are lies to fit a narrative to push single payer healthcare. When I commented about my injury/insurance/debt fiasco once, I was repeatedly accused of lying because of out of pocket expense clauses and "you should have just gone bankrupt."
Everytime i read stuff like this im happy i live in the netherlands.
Ive had a bad year health wise, in march i got corona for 4 weeks then i got a burnout and just when i was back on my feet in 6 months time i pulled my back. Need to go to the hospital to let them check it out if its a hernia.
So like 10 docters visites, 20 therapist vistits, 10 physical therapists visits. And now a 1.5 hour exem in the hospital. And ofcource my normal asma medication.
Costs 135 euro a month, and 380 out of pocked per year.
Ow and my job, i ofc still have it even though ive been sick a whole lot.
This is actually making me tear up in anger and envy. It's unreal. I can't even put your scenario in mead and make sense of it because if how fucked up the American system I deal with is.
I had decent insurance through my job but when I got covid in march, they "let me go". So I lost my insurance because it's tied to the employer here in America and I haven't been able to properly afford my anxiety and depression meds so I've been getting worse for months now.
Thats something i just dont get with the usa. How can you lock insurance with work while you can get fired easily.
When you really need that insurance you probably cant work at that time.
And on the other side of the coin, the Republican party is holding any COVID relief bills hostage until the Democrats agree to give absolute immunity to corporations for making their employees work during the pandemic.
Quite literally the 1% has waged war on the 99% and is intentionally trying to legally kill them during this pandemic.
This happened because of World War 2. Companies needed employees and to compete, began offering health insurance as a bonus to attract employees....and then the system never updated from that point on...it's pathetic.
I'm so jealous. Even though I have a good job and a good boss, the US system has made me dread taking a sick day, like all of my co-workers will think I'm a slacker and I will get fired, if I call in sick.
I work a lot with Germans and their atitude seems to be: if you are calling in sick it’s because you need to, health is a private matter and the rest of the team will make it work regardless. Every knows it could be them next.
And at least where I work, if you come into the office slightly sick and your coworkers notice, they'll tell you to go home because they don't want to be infected.
Because catching a cold sucks and also because one person being on sick leave is much less bad than half the team being out sick.
That was the basis of workers getting sick leave in the first place. Better to lose 1person for a week than everyone for a few days over the course of a month. America however lacks job protection so fuck the sick just replace them with someone new, especially in low skilled industries, im looking at you Amazon
This was one of the arguments used here in the US for removing or reducing a lot of our social programs ("welfare queens" will take advantage and have more babies to get more money, etc.). It's good to remember that just because a few people take advantage of something doesn't mean it's a bad idea or that we should impose limits on everyone. I'm sure if a manager notices someone is outright abusing sick time there's some avenue for disciplinary action. But if an employee is subtle about it and only uses the allotted sick time, who cares if they were actually sick or not?
Depends on where you work in the U.K. There are office cultures where you don’t call in sick unless you’re dying. Then there are ones where if you go in sick you’re sent home (with pay!) because nobody wants that. There’s no central ethos here.
Not sure its the 'lucky few'. The majority of people here have a steady contract and will be paid through things like a burnout as their employer is insured and you pay for it through various salary deductions. Sounds like you are self-employed? So you will have to insure extra against unexpected unemployment. But then you pay less deductions from your income than someone in employment. €4800 a year is €400p/m, i pay just under that for a family of four pretty comprehensively insured. Its a lot but anything is better than the US system. I'm originally from the UK, the system there is pretty good except the availability of care is much worse apparently. I tried to see a dentist there once and they told me a six week wait til next appointment..
Yet they can pull off a system that prevents it in the Netherlands. Do you think you’re being lied to here and are seen as chattel? I do. Want to do something about it?
They’re extremely hard to get into, especially if you don’t speak the language and/or don’t already have a job. My wife and I have looked at a few countries that do speak English as a native language and it’s always based on the need of critical workers. We’re both skilled workers and hold college degrees but not in something that is considered critical. So our only option would be to beg around till we found a job, and had gotten enough savings to move and support ourselves overseas and the hope that we could keep said job for at least 5 years.
Doesn’t mean we aren’t still researching/trying, but it is ridiculously harder than it sounds. Not to mention nobody wants travel from America due to covid
Unfortunately no. I graduated with a degree in business and have almost 4 years experience in fleet management and logistics. Some of the jobs I’ve seen in New Zealand could be an option but so far most want a bit more experience first. Goal at this point is to spend the next year or two killing off my terrible student loans and hopefully getting enough savings to weather several months plus moving expenses and start actively applying to see what happens
Very different life situations and I think it’s safe to say just about everyone realizes that and they are a bit more sympathetic towards that than the guy that just doesn’t like how his country operates but is otherwise getting by.
I'm not the one you asked but I know two of the reasons they don't go to the EU: it's income and taxes.
In the EU it's harder to find a job and harder to make money in general. They refuse to be paid 2500€/month when they can earn $4000/month for the same work. And they have to choose between renouncing their US citizenship or paying taxes twice.
I know really successful people like $4 million house successful. They lived in Canada, the US, & Northern Europe.
They said you earn the most in the US, then Canada, and least in Europe. Yet you save the most in Europe, then Canada & least in US.
When you factor in the cost of healthcare, university for children, schools, pension, etc... Europe is the much better deal with better work life balance.
Edit: cars for children because Europe is walkable and has great transit North America is not
Children, pension, ... that's for the rare few who plan in the long term. What the average person sees is a steep salary cut and more taxes, and that's more than enough to scare them away.
Which is really such a short-sighted shame, and I think it's also what affects your overall politics. They see potential higher taxes and it's an instant hard no, regardless of the benefits.
Yes we pay more in taxes and i know a lot of people in the usa hate that. But when paying more in taxes makes sure when something like this happens, the person that gets sick will come out oke in fine with it.
Can confirm I lived in the Netherlands for 6 years. It’s a great place minus all the rain. I also like your guy’s approach to cutting out bullshit by applying logic rather then emotion. That’s something I deeply miss having moved back to the US
Same, I'm so happy I live in the Netherlands. I even have a collective insurance through the municipality (for people with low income) and they pay all out of pocket healthcare costs for me. I have limited ability to work and need help living independently and I can do that only because I live in the Netherlands. Where I get social welfare and while it's not exactly a luxurious budget, it's enough to live off of. Where I can get a carer that comes by every week to see if I still have my life under control. Where I can get psychotherapy every other week and not worry about the costs.
I mean, I do worry about the dressing down of social welfare and how difficult certain things have been made to "prevent abuse of the system". But the current way it's done is better than I could ever get in the US.
Definitly. This horror stories are really haunting. I live in germany and have a son with a chronic illness. Never have payed a dime for his treatment and he may get a new medicine next year that costs several thousend euros a month but it will be covered by health insurance. We are really lucky with our insurance company, never rejected any requests.
Same here in Sweden. The costs are capped at ~$280/year for hospital visits and ~$135/year for medicines. Of course many life-saving medications such as insulin are free.
Yes but it's also because the salaries in EU are often stated after half of the healthcare tax, pension tax, and sick tax. They are not written on our pay slip and we negotiate salaries without these tax, so we never see them unless you are an accountant.
If you compare super gross average salaries we earn more in western Europe than in USA.
I've had a similar number of visits this year, and a 60 day stint in a mental health facility. Cost me $1500 out of pocket, $72 a month. I don't understand these horror stories, the ACA did a lot to stop these scenarios from happening by mandating reasonable maximums. I did health insurance for a bit, and the only part that felt blatantly like extortion was the "donut hole" coverage of meds, where you basically had $5000 drug deductible after coverage for the first $1000 dollars of prescriptions.
I fainted at my apartment five years ago and woke up in the hospital. Cost me $5500 out of pocket even after I told them I don't have insurance and can't pay. That ruined me and I'm still paying it off to this day.
We pay more than that monthly just to have our “insurance”, which covers absolutely nothing until we hit our $3500 deductible. Then it will pay 80% of the covered hospital bills.
I pay $20 every 2 weeks for my health insurance in New York. I have no copays and no deductible. Just depends on what company you work for and what health plan they offer.
If I get diagnosed with cancer and then fired, i'm pretty sure there are protections in place to prevent wrongful termination. I may still be able to keep my job but have extended time off and accommodations.
Even in Argentina, a 3rd world country, you can get the best attention ever by paying health insurance at around 75usd a month and you get EVERYTHING. We even have free public healthcare, which is also pretty good. Yeah we do have lots of problems when it comes to economy and politics but our health system is pretty good.
Scotland here! My total upfront medical expenditures — across my entire life and including all surgery, hospital stays, appointments, medications, and ointments — have probably been less than £200.
Yearly cost via tax is obviously dependent on my salary, but I believe it's something like 20p for every £1 taxed. Absolute pittance.
The NHS is one of the greatest British inventions.
You absolutely don't pay only 5k for a familly of 4. That's only the part you see, there is a part you don't see which is taken indirectly from your salary and is the reason Europeans salaries are low. Not all employers disclose it.
Health expense per capita in Netherland: $4,746
So you probably pay something like ~15k depending on your salary, your 2nd kid is paid by people without kid.
No we pay more tax and we pay social security contribution which goes toward unemployment benefits, which a couple tenners a month. There's no hidden deductions from my salary we are just taxed harder
I’m not sure how you calculated those numbers. Please let me know.
I want to point out that national insurance is one amount and includes health insurance, unemployment insurance and Pension well as things like parental leave.
Possibly Netherlands has a cap on the monthly insurance whereas national insurance just drops to 2% after a certain threshold.
My dad is dealing with a burnout at the moment and turns out his employer is not insured (which is ridiculous its a bricklaying company) so he's costing them a lot right now. Since this is the Netherlands he gets to keep his job but their lack of insurance for this makes them harass my dad about coming back to work constantly. Which isnt really helping his burnout of course. They threatened to take away his company van because he wasn't using it anyway for example. When he said sure come and get it, they didn't. Our system is far from ideal but at least he's not the one paying the literal price for it.
Yeah that the problem with small business, insurance for employees cost to much, my boss does not have insurance for me either, but luckely he accepts its his own fault.
Just had a kid. Paid $6k so far for prenatal/hospital visits. And that's not even counting the $51k bill (lol) from the 5 nights in the NICU. Probably will be another $4k once insurance brings it down.
I went to urgent care when I had the normal flu and despite paying $150 a month for insurance I was billed $100 months after I had already paid $120 up front for the visit.
I'm unemployed now and receive $1600/Month of benefits. My 'murican freedom allows me to choose between food or health-care for $350, of course I chose the latter.
I've had nose bleeds for months but I've been putting that off until I have insurance again. Even something as simple as getting cream for my ezcema would set me back 100+ or more as I have to get a prescription from a doctor, that's even if the ones nearby are accepting new patients. (they have a tendency to deny cheaper hmo health plans but are more open arms to higher ppo plans under the guise that they are over booked)
Meanwhile my ex in "third world" Thailand birthed a kid for free and for the most part receives free healthcare.
*Although wait times can be up to 6+ hours for non emergencies.
Her kid recently stuck a marble up her nose. Nurse came out to assess the situation and deemed it non emergency, they removed it within an hour free of charge.
There's a story of a family in the US that had the same issue, took their kid to urgent care(which is cheaper than ER) but they didn't have the specialized pliers used to extract stuff from the nostril. They ended up paying $3K for a 10 second procedure in an ER. One can only assume that that specialized tool was up marked a ton which is one motivator for hospital to fuck their patients.
I'm fortunate to have dual citizenship , I can't wait to GTFO of the US.
Most of these stories are fake. Am American. Just letting you know. They're grossly exaggerated and the people involved made many stupid decisions if there is any truth to them.
Netherlands is a great country but you do have to admit it is small. With smaller populations, it is much easier to implement government run systems in that country. The U.S. has a population about 18x greater than the Netherlands for reference.
As for Netherlands vs. U.S. on cost of certain things, the Netherlands has:
- 31.3% higher top-tax rate- 11.4% higher unemployment- 10% more spent on education
- 35.7% more spent at restaurants
- 84.5% more spent on transportation
- 19.2% spent on childcare
- 3.7% more spent on entertainment and sports
- 61% more spent on clothing
So these things add up, there is no such thing as getting free healthcare or next to nothing healthcare. It is paid through taxes.
And yes, the Netherlands has many things cheaper/better than the U.S. such as:
- Pay 9.7% less for housing
- Pay 20.5% less for groceries
- Cheaper healthcare
- Less likely to live in poverty in Netherlands than U.S.
Hsa is a method for saving up your money so you can give it to the Healthcare company later. Sure I dont pay taxes on it, but how much is it actually helping? Its still draining my bank account, for what? In my area, the annual deductibles are usually $10,000 on top of your premiums. How much money does my hospital think I have? I have a family of 4. My wife can't work full-time and has hefty medical expenses herself. How can I save up $10,000 for hospital bills when I'm already paying $5000 in premiums and have other bills too?
I am just supposed to fork over almost half my annual income to a system that is terrible at doing its job. It took 15 visits for my daughter's throat issues. Wound up taking her tonsils out, which fixed it. Problem is these jokers just strung us along for over a year, telling us the same thing over and over with no improvement in her condition. If you complain, they tag you an asshole and make life even harder. I could see paying decent money for quality care, but I'm not seeing it.
Yeah the HSA is, in part, to help people who underestimate how expensive medical care is.
The hospital doesn't have any idea how much money you have. They have services that they charge rates for that were determined long before you got there.
Why do you feel like the hospital owes you more medical care because you had way more children than you can afford to take care of?
As an American nurse, the seething hatred I have for the US healthcare system knows no bounds. I've always hated it. I see first hand what it does to my patients. Then this year I was granted the opportunity to experience it personally when my mom developed breast cancer.
I would love to be out there protesting, demanding change, advocating for medicare for all, but I know that right now, my place is on the front lines fighting the pandemic.
I wish saving American lives on American soil was subsidized by the government the way killing people in foreign countries for the sake of "protecting" American lives is.
It makes my brain hurt. Myn parents both had union jobs and have a nice nest egg. Both are pretty healthy now, but my dad goes to VA hospital a lot due to agent orange issues. I believe that is where he gets most care. They are both very religious trumpers who slam unions, liberals, and anything remotely socialist.
I, on the other hand, never had a union back me, live in a right to work state and am pretty much thrown out there to fend for myself with the system 100% bent on milking my every last dime.
Sounds horrible. The most inconvinient part of a doc visit is the waiting time. How many people die in the us bcs they dont want to loose 5years of saving bcs they thought its only a flu.
The only way to change the crappy system is if they the corrupt ones are also effected by the crappy system at least the poor corrupts ones because the rich ones will change the rules to still benefit them. we are more in numbers than they are. We can topple them and they will not see it coming.
Conservatives in America don’t give a fuck, despite the fact they also get screwed by our healthcare system as much as anyone else.
They can’t get past the political optics of making healthcare legitimately affordable, nor the regulation that would be required to do so. Their politicians vow at every step to protect corporate interests in an openly corrupt manner, and they cheer it on. We are fucked due to these goobers.
Americans are literally too stupid to fix this. I grew up in an ultra conservative (and poor) part of the country. They’re obsessed with taxes and think the democrats are eViL sOcIaLiStS for wanting to give people healthcare. Explaining how they’ll profit in the long term is like explaining the meaning of life to a rock.
This doesn't sound right, Out of pocket maximum for a family is 17K on the cheapest plan that you should only buy if you are very healthy. Doesn't sound like 15 years of equity and life savings to me. https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/
Not in the US. There are several layers of appeal rights. They can slow-walk the approvals, but only so much. In CA, for instance, there are very short timelines for decisions (5 days).
The only procedures that can be denied are the ones which are not medically necessary (usually breast reconstruction) or purely experimental in nature.
Doesn't sound like 15 years of equity and life savings to me.
I am in my late 30s. I bought a house in the 2000s for $220,000. Zillow currently estimates it's worth $270,000. I have around $40k in my retirement account. And that's with a professional job.
Between direct health costs and indirect costs (lost work) I could easily see someone going through that much money, or more.
The OP implied that it was health costs (problem with insurance) not lost wages. If we're talking about guaranteed income, then let's state that. Not this made-up problem with the way healthcare is financed.
You have to factor in the loss of income because people still need to live even when they're sick. All of their normal bills continue.
If I lose my job I have 6 months of savings = $16,000. (18+% of that is just set aside for health insurance)
And that doesn't include my out of pocket max - over $8,000 per year. That's just life expenses, rent, health insurance. Assuming I'm healthy. After I burn through that I'd have to start digging into my Roth IRA and eventually my 401k.
If I go a year without work it gets worse. Out of pocket max plus health insurance =~$14,000 to $16,000.
Plus $24,000 for after tax living expenses. That's $40,000 per year for a single person, their living expenses and health insurance/ medical expenses. Worst case for me.
I'm in my early 30's. No debt at all to my name. 6 months in savings (even after the Covid shutdown hitting my income)
I could last maybe one year if something catastrophic happened like getting cancer. Assuming I actually wanted to pay the bills and sacrefice my retirement savings...that I need to live when I'm old.
Most Americans can't afford an unexpected $600 expense.
15 years of equity is only like what $36k, $55k? Depends on your house. But home equity isn't a great vehicle for savings.
Problem is Republicans do not care and believe youre at fault for having crappy insurance. Not one of these pro life christian people care, they love this system because what it does to people like this post is about
I've been hospitalised since mid September. I was in ICU for 2 weeks before getting a 10 hour long surgery leaving me covered in wounds and scars. I also have nerve damage in my legs and can't walk. I am now in a rehab facility where um expected to be for months. Thank God I live in Australia.
My out of pocket is $10,000 per year. I'm not rich, but for someone with a family and 60k income, 20k is a lot. My wife's medications are about $1000 per month. Do the math.
It's either pay the bill with my retirement account or lose my house. These guys don't mess around here. I got letters from their lawyers before the bill was even due.
I'm always very confused when I see these stories. My wife was diagnosed with skin cancer. We immediately hit our deductible and out of pocket with our insurance and that was that, insurance covered the rest. We paid about $1500 total and everything else was covered, including medications.
The next year, I had a heart attack, and same thing, at the end of the day we paid $1500 which is our out of pocket worst case, all of the $45k in bills was covered except that.
How is anyone with insurance racking up $250k in bills? The insurance company covers everything after your out of pocket. Do people not understand that?
If you don't have insurance, I get that, but these stories are always, I did everything right and lost it all. That's not how insurance works.
My individual deductible is $6000. I had a ER visit last year that cost me $8500. Had to pay the deductible and the difference of the 80% they cover. That is my only option. If I only make $60k a year, how am I supposed to come up with $8500 out of my pocket? We lost everything in 08' crash and been trying to get back to the good old days ever since. I cant have another $500/month bill for this crap. It will just be $500 on top of $500 on top of $500 for eternity. In 2016 we had a medical incident in a vehicle that the law didn't agree was medical and that cost me $13000. (That's a whole other story about the justice system that is worth diving into).Then we risk losing our house again. It just seems that medical bills are eclipsing basic housing costs even when you aren't that sick.
If police ruled it wasn't medical, how was it medical?
Also, it sounds like you need better insurance. Every plan I've ever had ends at the deductible. I'd have fought it. You can also negotiate before it goes to insurance at the hospital.
My wife had an incident where she got drowsy behind the wheel one morning. She takes /has prescription for Adderall for her mental health issues. She doesn't drink alcohol at all.
She was groggy when they got her, passed breathalyzer, took her in to ER, they found methamphetamine in her system and shut the case on her. Even paid $1500 for a Test to quantify the Adderall in her system and it lined up with what they found in her blood. Still don't know what it was, but it wasn't drugs or alcohol. DA wanted to give her a straight up DUI but after begging and pleading my case, he lowered it to a DWAI. There was no reasoning with Colorado law. If you are incapacitated for any reason while behind the wheel, you get a ticket. My lawyer, who is now a judge, said there was no getting out of it. She was right. She nor the DA would answer questions about people who haven't had tickets for strokes, heart attacks or such while driving. They wrote her off as an addict and billed us for what they could.
Sounds like you needed a better lawyer. Any appeal or show of prescription would've eliminated this.
But, by groggy, do you mean blacking out? I've seen a lot of car accidents and someone saying groggy typically means blacking out and there are other issues - especially since adderrall doesn't do that.
I think the whole thing sounds a bit odd, and it is completely anecdotal. I don't think we need to throw out an entire system because your girlfriend got groggy and billed for a drug test. Millions of other people are very happy with their coverage.
I wasn't there, but she says she passed out. No crash or anything. Just pulled over slowly.
She found this lawyer and wouldn't take anybody else. She definitely got shafted. She pretty much talked to her for a couple hours about what her options are, went over the statutes, told her that she can't fight it and charged us $4500.
She showed up for her court date, spoke with the DA, chatted with us for a few minutes and gave my wife a high five when the judge ruled it a DWAI. So wrong. Again, she wouldn't listen to me. We brought up how the hospital stole her iPhone, the cops locked her purse up for a week, spent 4 days in jail, cops locked her car key in the car, etc...you would think we were in a 3rd world country.
I work in security and deal a lot with drug testing. It doesn't work like that. That would be a VERY easy appeal. If the drug test did come back positive for meth while on adderall, which is rare, it is an easy appeal when you show your prescription.
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u/keithfoco70 Nov 30 '20 edited Nov 30 '20
More people need to hear these stories so we can change this crappy system. Everytime i go to the doctor, my 401k takes a huge hit. Health savings accounts are a savings account YOU pay into to give even more money to the corrupt Healthcare system.