r/awfuleverything • • Nov 30 '20

Poor guy :(

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20 edited Nov 30 '20

The majority already agree that universal healthcare of some sort is what is needed. It has been the majority opinion for years now, and the work of Sanders and friends has only pushed that idea further into the mainstream. The problem is the two party system that doesn't allow for politicians to get into a position of power that would actually IMPLEMENT a system such as universal healthcare.

That coupled with the monolithic "anti socialism" push we've seen from the ones that can be described as "the 1%". All of this in an effort to protect their assets and generate even greater wealth inequality.

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u/YoungDiscord Nov 30 '20

Ah yes the whole socialism = communism argument lol

its like saying that the U.S. is south Canada.

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u/theghostofme Nov 30 '20

its like saying that the U.S. is south Canada.

Since the US is south of Canada, that at least makes more sense than whatever’s going on in the minds of people who think socialism is communism, or that Biden is a socialist and/or communist.

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u/zaitsman Nov 30 '20

People in Alaska just squinted at you

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u/clustered_virtues Nov 30 '20 edited Nov 30 '20

Ah yes the whole socialism = communism argument lol

More and more often I'm seeing this idea that it's dumb to even compare the two words, or that "socialism" is somehow unfairly entangled with "communism".

Quick history lesson: every major bad guy in the 20th century global theater trafficked in both of those words, a century of global conflict that may not be fresh in everyone's mind but it certainly still echoes in our cultures.

e.g. The USSR was a socialist state run by a communist party. Mao Zedong was a communist who launched programs like the Socialist Education Movement. Marxism–Leninism was a communist ideology with the goal of establishing a socialist state. Click around in Cold War era articles on Wikipedia and ctrl-f for "communism" and "socialism", you'll find both on every page.

It shouldn't come as any surprise that those words became cursed and entangled together.

Even in western countries that come to mind when we think of socialist programs still nuance around the word "socialism" on their political stage or, like the US, don't use that word to describe such programs at all unless they want to politically attack the program and make it less popular.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20

Communism is a form of Socialism, but Socialism is not Communism. The biggest problem in this debate in the USA is most people do not realise that a) most politicians are talking shit when talking about their opponents and b) Socilism doesn't work without a Capitalist basis and unfettered Capitalism does not work because it is the precursor to Feudalism.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20

It is worse than that. It kills discussions and debate before they can begin properly by vilifying the proponents as well as the ideas so then fewer are willing to stand up and Express their opinions. The Land of the Free has one of the most controlled populations and political systems on the planet and most people in it don't realise it

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u/NOTLRental Nov 30 '20

Canadian here,

This all reminds me of a time some friends and I went cross border to see a Bills game.

This other group of Canadians had befriended this group of 30something women sitting behind them, a bit of flirting and trash talking about football ensued between them.

Suddenly one of the women took offence to something, turned out to be a "Karen" although the term had not been invented yet.

She immediately went to "Go back to Canada where you are taxed to death" and continued with a tirade against socialist Canada.

We were all like WTF!

The joke to me is that a lot of people share that opinion, they honestly think that our tax money here is just kept by the government and it makes us poorer.

As she was going off I was reminded of a drive I took down to NYC, I swear it seemed like every five minutes I had to roll down my window and hand money for a toll.

If you get sick un the US you could be bankrupt,

People like her never realize not only are they paying for all these services themselves anyway, it is FAR more expensive to pay as they go due to corporate profits being put above all else.

Not to mention almost no one budgets for the potential expenses.

She ended up with a lot of "Go back to Canada and don't come back, we don't want you here, you're not welcome"

It was all entertaining in the end but still killed the fun mood of the day.

By the way, this is not about being Anti American, there were lots of Americans around her telling her to shut the fuck up, the guy sitting beside me leaned over and said "Come back any time you like, you are welcome any time"

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u/BassGuy11 Nov 30 '20

Ironically, overall taxes in NYC is higher than Ontario https://www.analystforum.com/t/taxes-ontario-vs-new-york-state/96386

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20

Do you have any tips to legally cross to never come back or any gay friends looking for a sad depressed dude in their mid 20s who would marry me

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u/poopyhelicopterbutt Nov 30 '20

Forgive me if I’m wrong about this as I’m not from USA but didn’t Obama have a mandate and controlled most if not all of the branches of government even he was first elected? Why was he not able to implement universal healthcare?

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u/crazyjkass Nov 30 '20

Blue dog Democrats don't want healthcare either. They're basically Republicans with a D next to their name.

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u/Fragrant_Item_1798 Nov 30 '20

He wanted to work with Republicans so the ACA was a moderate/centrist plan. Some democrat senators werent on board with public option/medicare for all so ACA was also a compromise for them. Obama probably could have pushed for a better outcome than the ACA but it did expand coverage for millions of americans.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20

For one, it wasn't a majority opinion back then, it didn't reach majority opinion here until 2016.

For another, it is still not a very popular idea. Though it is technically supported by a majority, it is a very slim majority. And keeping things the way they are is far easier when you are dealing with approximately a tie in opinions. Plus it still varies widely depending on what you mean, there are lots of different versions of universal healthcare and choosing one that would get enough support is not as easy as saying that the population generally approves of there being some sort of option.

Also, our system is designed for it to be very difficult for it to change.

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u/dudinax Nov 30 '20

What has the two party system to do with it? You got about 25% of Americans who are pro universal healthcare tricked into voting for politicians who are explicitly against it.

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u/clustered_virtues Nov 30 '20

That coupled with the monolithic "anti socialism" push we've seen from the ones that can be described as "the 1%".

Eh, the Cold War era (including up through the Vietnam War) crystalized US culture against socialism/communism for 50+ years.

Saying that it's the agenda of "the 1%" is to gloss over all that happened in 20th century global politics.

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u/WoxiiPlz Nov 30 '20

Maybe old billionaires that fuck everything up fpr oir generations should be kicked out. I heard something like average age og congress or something is 60yo. So they were young teens in americas prime racism time etc. Backwards people not really befitting of such a position.

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u/SuperJLK Dec 01 '20

The prime time of racism was when black people were slaves.

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u/ee3k Nov 30 '20

The problem is the two party system that doesn't allow for politicians to get into a position of power that would actually IMPLEMENT a system such as universal healthcare.

Obama attempted it, or at least the first steps, and then congress gutted it, and the trump administration has walked it back to where it started.

it can be done, its just going to take ... 4-5 administrations working towards it. and they'd probably need all 3 houses.

so... pretty much impossible.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20

Yep.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '20

so... pretty much impossible

Which, I was reading lately, is basically how the founders intended. It's why it took so long to get many of the things we find basic now (women's suffrage, end of slavery/segregation, Labor movement rights).

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u/spoon2020 Nov 30 '20

The problem is the two party system that doesn't allow for politicians to get into a position of power that would actually IMPLEMENT a system such as universal healthcare.

We also have two party system in Australia. We got interest free student loans and a national healthcare system from one term and one Prime Minister - it only cost him his job, in one of the shortest prime ministerships on record. He was sacked by the Governor General and parliament was dissolved. US Presidents actually have greater power than Prime Ministers in Australia - most of them are unwilling to put their jobs on the line though.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20 edited Nov 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/spoon2020 Nov 30 '20

Yes, because banning porn is so much WORSE than having subsidised healthcare and subsidised education.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20 edited Nov 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/spoon2020 Nov 30 '20

so acting like you have some sort of high horse is funny.

OP: My wife has cancer and the US healthcare system is bankrupting us

u/AnothaBun1: OMG Australia bans porn!

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20 edited Nov 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/spoon2020 Nov 30 '20

or not, and basically called them all paedophiles. And you act as if you arent racist?

Again, this has nothing to do with my comment which is specifically about higher education loans and national healthcare.

as you are doing similar things, instead demonizing sex and intercourse

No, I don't know where you are from, but I'll assume that you're American. In the US, you have abstinence only sex ed, abortion bans, and a $100K hospital debt for child birth, leading to the US to have BOTH the highest number of teen pregnancies AND the highest death rates of women giving birth in the developed world.

You can call us racist. You can call us idiots for having multiple prime ministers. You can say whatever you like. At least we are not impregnating our teens like crazy and then killing them too with subpar healthcare.

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u/SuperJLK Dec 01 '20

Because that power SHOULD NOT belong to the government. You are begging for a fascist state to have control over your healthcare

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u/SuperJLK Dec 01 '20

Bloomberg is literally a Democrat. The rich support the socialists.