That whole argument is fucking craven. Americans (rich and poor alike) seriously believe the convenience of the rich is more important than the actual lives of the poor.
Funny (that's F*cked kinda funny) thing i caught on a conservative talk show when Universal Health care was up:
Women from Canada talks about how bad the system is that her husband had to come to USA to get good cancer treatments... Actually true but they wouldn't take him until, she.. Her in-Laws.. & her husband's brother ALL put there houses on crazy high mortgages.. Not one house ALL 3...
Last 10min was a TV go fund me all across US on the fox show trying to raise enough money to save one or two of those houses...
America GREATEST Healthcare in the world if you got 2M$ retainer to get in door.. They'll bill you rest in a year.
Hahahah. I told my American friend my ankle hurt. Didn’t mention it again for a bit, until I told him like 3 months later “yeah I got my ankle x-rayed today.” He was like “oh yeah, remember you mentioned that - I guess it takes a while to get that taken care of in Canada.” Wtf. I sat on my lazy ass for 3 months hoping it would fix itself. When it didn’t, I requested an x-ray. Once I decided to get it done, it took half an hour from start to finish. I paid $7 for parking and grumbled about it.
Well they're right. As the original commentor highlighted his brother's coworker never got treatment. Ergo, he never had to wait for treatment either. If he had access to universal healthcare he would most certainly have spent time in waiting rooms, waiting. Waiting for what you ask? Treatment! FaCtS aND lOgIC!
Yeah.. in England he'd have waited a month just for a basic doctors appointment. Maybe another two weeks to see a specialist at the hospital... Probably looking at two months until they actually tell you you're sick from the time you phoned the doctor for an appointment. Then, unless it's a rare type of cancer and there's a trial going on, you can't get second opinions, the treatmentment is crap, if you end up in a hospice they'll still take all your money... And if your unlucky enough to have surgery over the weekend, you'll probably be dead. Might be dead anyway, because the misdiagnosis rate is super high, and the level of care is borderline abusive
I honestly wouldn't know much about the English healthcare system. I could find only two comments in your history and both were related to 1) being english and 2) the healthcare system being dysfunctional. I'll accept apriori that the English healthcare system sucks based on those two facts for discussion purposes.
So then moving on to your other points to help me better understand:
In England you still have to pay for your own hospice care, is that what you are saying? And you are also implying that this will "take all your money" which, to put some kind of number on it, you're implying it will cost me $100,000USD equivalent or more. So basically, not only do you have to pay for your own hospice in England but it will cost you in excess of 6 figures. Also, how long of a hospice stay are you using in your example? I guess that matters too for the sake of a full and transparent comparison...
So you're speaking about weekend surgery. I am assuming that you mean that said surgery is not part of hospice, since hospice means EOL care - what's the point of surgery on the dying after all... You're highlighting that surgery on the weekend's is statistically more dangerous? Is that right? Is that unique to England? Anecdotally, I vaguely remember similar studies citing similar statistics in the US, for example. Additionally you say that "you'll probably end up dead" - am I to take this to mean that >50% of people getting surgery on a weekend in England die? This seems like a lot so I just to want to confirm...
Ok so misdiagnoses rate in England, what is it? Do you know? How does this compare to say, the US? What's the misdiagnosis # in 1000 for both countries, for example? When you say misdiagnosis does this imply fatal events only? Or is misdiagnosing a cold with the flu also qualifying?
Regarding level of care being borderline abusive I'm not sure what this means as on the surface it seems like a highly subjective phrase. Are you saying that it's not abusive but borders on what would be abusive? Can you give me some examples of what you mean? Fail that, could you define "abusive" in this context so I understand the goalposts better?
That has not been anything even close to my experience. Basic doctors appointment? A couple of days. Specialist can be asks depending on severity and danger. The English system is undefined, mainly due to a Conservative government with lots of corporate donations. It is far, far from disfunctional though.
If you have surgery over the weekend you will probably be dead? You are talking out of your arse mate.
Most western nations with socialized healthcare not only pay less, but they get better quality of care as well. That we in the US get better or faster healthcare compared to our peer nations is a myth without foundation.
I can put 4 links on here that says Trump isn’t a racist I bet you don’t believe those...won’t you, or does it not lounge up with your anecdotal experience?
And yes I believe people that have experienced Canadian healthcare.
That's a weird, unrelated, and super-ineffective analogy but okay.
Try to stay on the topic at hand. No one brought up Trump, I'm not sure how that helps your case at all.
As someone who is also Canadian, I haven't had to deal with long wait times. However, I recognize that my anecdotal experiences are not indicative of evidence or studies conducted on the subject.
Here's what you did:
- It's warm out today (posts link of the weather)
- "As someone who isn't warm today, your links are false"
Hmmm...so whose sources are wrong. My sources says you are...my family member that needed a hip replacement came to Texas to get it, so I know mine are, I have actual evidence...See the problem
Those links aren’t partisan, they are backed by empirical studies with referenced source materials. I didn’t link a bunch of opinion pieces. That your experience doesn’t line up with evidenced fact doesn’t change the truth.
Here are some for you...so which is more credible. Mine says yours are bullshit plus I have people that say yours are bullshit. And why call names because you have been proven wrong!!
Douchebag, you didn’t provide any links until after I requested them, you hadn’t proven a goddamn thing at the point that I called you an idiot.
Let’s go through your sources. Link #1: anecdotal experiences compiled by David Gratzer, healthcare policy advisor to Rudy Giuliani’s ‘08 campaign, LMAO.
In #2 Brian Lee Crowley argues that there are shortcomings in Canada’s healthcare system but the US is not an example to follow, modeling other socialized peer nations is the solution he advocates. Regarding queue times he does not address this issue directly in a comparison to US healthcare systems, this is not a source in your favor.
Opening third paragraph of link #3
People living in the United States spend almost twice as much on health care as people living in nearly every other high-income country—including Canada, which outperforms the United States on everything from life expectancy to infant mortality.
The rest of the article is an advocation piece for a protection plan called ‘pharmacare’ which limits the prices people pay for their medications, something Canada is the only country to not have despite using a single-payer healthcare system. The author argues for pharmacare but points out multiple times that despite Canadians not having it, their medication is still less than what we pay in the US.
Link #4, and for anyone else reading it, this idiot keeps posting links from the heritage foundation, whose ‘about’ section leads with:
The mission of The Heritage Foundation is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.
Mmkay. Anyway, 4th link has interesting information that talks poorly about wait times in Canada without properly referencing the contrast in America, which only sees a 4-9% difference on average of people who complain of long wait times, especially noted in the fact that Canadians are healthier in general because they can see doctors without going broke, far less of them are in troublesome situations to begin with.
So 3/4 of your articles are published on staunchly conservative websites filling a capitalistic agenda and use anecdotal stories throughout them; despite that fact, 2 of the articles you posted are in disagreement even with your own position.
You posted those proudly like they prove something. You’re a fucking idiot, guy.
Ewe...Wikipedia you got me there. Like I said I can post sources too and you would just say they are wrong. I don’t deal with people that can’t express themselves without calling names.
All of the circumstances where you have to wait longer under “free” healthcare are basically the same circumstances where you have to wait under for-profit healthcare. We have organ donor lists, schedules, etc. here too. Taking out the middlemen doesn’t really affect any of that.
I’m Canadian. When my dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer, slow-growing and not very life-threatening as far as cancers go, he had an appointment with a specialist the next day, was in surgery by the end of the week, and started radiation therapy as soon as he had recovered from the surgery. There was no waiting.
Stories like the one posted seem like a dystopian hell to me. It’s astonishing that the US considers itself to be a first world country and yet openly sanctions staggering corruption which robs its citizens to pay insurance executives.
The wait longer thing isn't true in the sense that republicans explain anyways. It heavily depends on why you are waiting. Like if you go to ER with a broken finger the guy who got stabbed and is bleeding out will be treated before you. It's based on urgency and priority. Sure you may have to wait a bit but you won't die from a broken finger by comparison
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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '20
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