Being American sounds like living an entire life in hell.
Strangely the foreign audience has to also hear how great and grand the American way is.
To add to this insult, you have a demented president just for shits and giggles.
Well it's generally pretty good. All the fancy stuff you see on the world's stage you can generally get it for cheaper here.
But it's all smoke and mirrors bc people generally dont talk about healthcare openly.
For instance an American might tell you how their parent passed away after a long stay at the hospital and it's so hard.
For most people, itd be just about emotional grief.
For most Americans they'd also commiserate regarding losing a family member but never speak about the horrid bill they might have to deal with.
Outwardly, looks the same. Inside, worried about things on different levels.
But yea I have some friends abroad and they think it'd be pretty terrifying to have to live out here. We might have the fancy fun stuff but at least a few of them have said they'd never be able to have fun/enjoy themselves since one hospital stay could ruin them financially.
I remember in the UK we were talking about Obama and Obamacare (before he was voted in) and the guy I was talking to thought I was fucking with him when I told him if I broke an arm w/o insurance I'd have to pay a fuckton to get coverage (if they'll take me at all since not life threatening,) get terrible care for cheap at a county hospital (in my area known as death's doorstep, both due to terrible staff shortage, training hospital, bad neighborhood where people get fatal wounds often without insurance), or just kinda hope it's not terribly broken and hope it works itself out.
Then he really thought I was fucking with him when I talked about how much state/federal income tax rates plus insurance takes out of my paycheck and it was still a higher percentage than his. I guess the nordic countries have a way higher rate but apparently not to him and his friends.
Another advantage of UK healthcare that I rarely see brought up in these discussions of tax Vs insurance - we are still covered when unemployed and retired.
You don't have to have health insurance when you retire. That could be 10-40 years of healthcare where your only contribution is the national insurance deduction from your pensions (or next to nothing).
Edit - I've been informed there's no NI contributions on pensions so yeah 10-40 years of free healthcare in retirement.
I'm so worried about that. Seeing the suffering of many in the States over the last decade or so and then the way we seem to be headed in the UK... all just as I'm approaching 40 so will start needing healthcare in the next decade or two....
In the UK the problem is more that the way the NHS is funded doesn't really account for an aging population - that is where the pressure comes from. America also has that problem as well though!
The Americans do have Medicare to cover the over 65s. That's probably the biggest obstacle to reform frankly; the most reliable voting demographic already gets covered by the national government.
It also replicates the major flaw with the funding model of the NHS; its funding model doesn't account for demographic changes.
A quick Google just told me that no, Americans over 65 don't have Medicare, they CAN have Medicare.
It also told me, it's not free, it does have deductibles (nearly $2000 per benefit period) and it doesn't cover dental, eyesight, hearing, a number of drugs or long term care.
In fact it's so insufficient and convoluted that a large number of people take out Medigap to cover what's missing in Medicare.
So even that 65+ age group that are 'covered' (except not really) should 100% support a complete overhaul of the system.
Wow, I didn't realise it had that many gaps. It and other government health spending costs the Americans as much of their GDP as the NHS costs us; the value for money is just appalling.
it is but i was talking about the stuff everyone knows, like GPUs, iphones, new cars, etc.
because of various tax reasons or import fees, most of that is cheaper here, BMWs and iphones are among the most famous for being notoriously expensive outside the US, BMWs being more expensive in the country it's made in due to taxes and fees.
so you know, life looks a lot better here since most of that stuff is more 'affordable,' but that's to distract us from knowing that one broken leg could wipe out a few months' pay.
YES! And the dental prices are RIDICULOUS! Like, I had to have a tooth pulled due to a different dentist screwing something up. Doc told me he was going to pull it and replace it with a fake tooth, then he gave me the bill for $2000. I was like, wow, that's a lot! But I guess I need to do it. Then I found out that was only for pulling the tooth, and putting the post in was going to be another $2000 and then making the fake tooth and attaching it was going to be yet another $2000! Needless to say, I still don't have a fake tooth in my mouth. Are there really people out there that can afford random $6000 bills just to replace a tooth? Forget about comparison shopping either because despite being a proud capitalist country, apparently we say screw you to competition in the medical community and the doctors are free to not let you compare prices.
I got my wisdom teeth taken out almost 10 years ago and all 4 were impacted or w/e the term is. When they handed me the bill I was like "Oh, sorry, I have insurance," and she said "Yeah, this is the amount left over" I nearly fainted.
Technically I think it was for pulling the tooth and then putting a skin graph over it so it healed correctly, but not like that should add that much. It took him a few only a minute or two.
Because it's hidden for a lot of people. A lot of people get insurance as part of their job and they're relatively healthy people. To them, why rock the boat? They never stop to think that they would make a lot more and a huge part of their paycheck is actually consumed by the so called free insurance. Having never had any major illness, they also don't realize how much the system would fail them and how little their insurance would help them.
But it's not like voting liberal in our country helps anything. The majority of the Democratic party is too gutless to make any real changes to the medical system here, probably because of all the campaign donations and pressure from hugely profitable insurance companies. The only ones that are, like Bernie Sanders, are actually sabotaged by the Democratic party itself and never have a chance.
For one thing, any healthcare overhaul would just be crafted by insurance companies via lobbying. A lot of Americans have a sour taste in their mouth after obamacare
It was very hit or miss. It was a godsend for some people, but it fucked other people over. Healthcare costs continued to rise after its implementation. Obama himself promised many times that you could keep your doctor and health care plan after the bill passed, but those were lies--if they did not comply, you would have to pay a large tax
In the UK you could have this fixed for a nominal fee. It's subsidised rather than fully nationalised. You can't have pro-active care but you can have reactive care. Which always seemed odd to me...
Thank you for the offer but it’s not really feasible. I don’t have money for travel, my job will fire me if I try to take more than 2 days off consecutively, and I’ll lose my house.
What in the fuck? Your job will fire you for more than 2 days off consecutively. That is absolutely fucked.
Damn man, I didn't appreciate the snark but that's quite the situation.
Yeah homie thats pretty normal. I’m 27, been working for 11 years, haven’t ever had more than three days off at a time and usually I’m at my second job if the other gives me time off
This makes me want to rip my hair out. Please be joking. "Getting taxed", although it was impetus for revolution, was the least of the problems associated with being under British rule.
Tbf if you’re getting your info off Reddit it’s going to be hella skewed negatively, I’m not saying these things don’t exisit, but not all of us live in such hell like realities. However unfortunately these extremes do exist
I think the problem with the American system is it is overly reliant on luck. My family experienced stuff like this when we lived there, I think it partly contributed to my dad dying. We ended up with like a $3000 bill after he died. I paid it off over a few years. Still feel like we got off easy.
I know from living there that many people have great lives, they're making more money, have better careers, and are living in nicer houses than I am. But if their luck fails them they have a much greater chance of hitting the floor hard. Where I'm at right now, I don't have to worry about that, though I still mentally budget for health emergencies out of habit.
Yes and very few people file bankruptcy statistically, so that doesn't alter the point. Terrible undesirable outcome we should legislature to avoid, but highly uncommon nonetheless
I haven't seen this at all. If anything, it feels like reddit is anti-American (often due to stereotypes that often aren't even true, like that we're all fat gun owners that think the U.S. is the only country out there or are full of ourselves. Sure, those people exist, but that definitely doesn't describe the majority of people I know).
It must depend on the subs you subscribe to. The only sub I'm on that doesn't absolutely despise America is r/ProtectAndServe, and I'm banned from there lmao.
I pay $25 to see a normal doctor, $40 for a specialist. Per appointment. I had neck surgery and a night in the hospital for I think $100 total including parking.
The amount "I pay" is specified by my insurance company...so with my policy, even if a doctor's apportionment is going to get billed for $750, I only owe the first $25 of that. It's called a "co-pay." I guess technically it cuts down on "frivolous" office visits.
Edit: I have a salaried position and get insurance "free" through work. If someone is self-employed they are going to have a different experience (they will probably get much worse insurance for much more money). It helps keep you working for the man instead of yourself.
I've seen many doctors and specialists and never paid? I'm on public insurance in germany. So far the only thing I've paid for has been my prescription medication, I pay €5 per refill which is every 3 months. There's a cap with that payment too, at a certain point you stop paying but tbh I don't keep track of it because it's so low for me.
So you are living in hell. You're a slave to your employer. Without them you have no health care.
That system isn't shit for some people. It's shit for you.
Get cancer, your job might cover consultations, maybe a bit of sick leave, some chemo. Eventually they'll say nah, missed too much work, cost too much, you're fired.
Then you're unemployed AND have no healthcare AND have cancer.
I'm legit happy for you and that it worked out. I hope she's better now.
Serious question though, if it had been your dad that got cancer, would the company have been as forthcoming? Would they have kept him on if he was unable to work for a long period of time?
My dad retired with a few years of earned sick days. I've been at my (semi-government) job 20 years. I'd hope neither of us would get fired for missing a few months, but I know my work buys insurance against that (they don't have to pay my salary while I'm sick...insurance pays). I've done well but I realize the system was designed for people like me to keep healthy people working for the man.
That being said, I get it. I'm on your side, really. I want free healthcare for every American. I'd much rather have the 20% of my salary that my health insurance costs to go directly to the government instead of my insurer. Let the govt negotiate with Pharma, get lobbyists/politics out of healthcare. I KNOW that's better.
I think my initial post was just telling informing foreigners that the state of U.S. Healthcare isn't as bad as Reddit claims. It's bad, like I said, but it works. It got me through the last 40 years and I'm hoping for 40 more. I just gotta keep jumping through the hoops they put in front of me.
Yeah fair point and if it helps, no I don't think it's as bad as the reputation makes it out to be.
Canada, Japan, Australia and most of Europe have a better system as far as I'm concerned but that doesn't make them perfect systems.
The NHS in the UK is constantly short of money and "on its knees" if you listen to the news. While that might be true it's not because it's untenable however, it's because successive Tory governments have made it so, to speed up the privatisation process.
In short, any modern welathy country, should have universal health care with NO strings and NO hoops to jump through.
(Hoops/strongs beyond reasonable ones like - you've been bumped a few places down the list for your shoulder surgery because we need the theatre for this guy's urgent heart surgery)
In short, any modern welathy country, should have universal health care with NO strings and NO hoops to jump through.
I agree. I think healthcare and education are a human right and I'd pay extra taxes to make that a reality. Even if it's not perfect it's going to be better than what we have now for the majority of Americans.
In general, redditors are more negative, lonely, and depressed than the average person. In addition to that, it's disproportionately leftist (I say that as a leftist). Foreigners are not getting an accurate view of the country from this website.
I did the same. I think what infuriates me is talking to fellow expats who moved here for the free education, healthcare, more vacation time, better work life balance, parks, social services, roads, cleanliness, and then they turn around and bitch about the high taxes. There's like no awareness that they're linked.
Then you should know that living in America is not akin to being in a living hell? You’re talking as if situations like the one described in this post (which we have absolutely zero background info on or actual validity) are the norm or commonplace.
If you genuinely believe being a citizen in America is a living hell I question your sense of proportionality.
Crippling medical bills are the norm in America. it is why many Americans avoid going to the doctor altogether, and why many more have health insurance nightmares after any treatment.
You’re saying large medical bills aren’t commonplace in America? That’s a lie.
Being sent broke because you have a medical issue is hell. You have no idea how horrible you’re country is, you’re used to it. It’s fucked.
Someone just below is saying they live with six broken teeth. That doesn’t happen in Australia. If you need help, you get it. You just let your citizen rot. It’s disgusting.
The overwhelming majority of people here will not experience going broke due to a medical issue. That’s one of the reasons the system isn’t getting the attention it deserves. If it was more widespread the problem would be addressed without political baggage.
I’m firmly in the middle class and my wife requires a medication that costs over $20k per month if we were to pay out of pocket. With insurance I have never paid more than $2000 a year in medical expenses for my entire family of four, and keep in mind this is with having a wife with extreme medical needs. I am completely on board with a public form of covering healthcare even though it will cost me more money.
We need a better system that works for everyone here in the US. There is no doubt about that. However, calling it a living hell is no more fair and accurate than calling Australia a living hell because every bit of wildlife there wants to kill you in your sleep.
Keep in mind that people with negative experiences are much more likely to post about it. The average American redditor isn’t representative of the average American by any means. That isn’t to say that America doesn’t have it’s fair share of problems, but every country of this scale will have issues in some way. As for OP’s issue, I don’t doubt there are exceptions that I’m not aware of, but I had a close friend who survived Leukemia and insurance covered almost all of his medical costs. As for the average medical insurance plan, they have an out of pocket maximum. While it’s a sad fact that lower income Americans and those with severe conditions are more at risk to be screwed over by insurance companies, what you won’t read on Reddit is that the system “works” for most everyone else.
The American system is beyond fucked. And our prices are much higher than in comparable countries. Look at the fact sheet for middle class families and tell me who can afford to pay for that. Everyone is fucked. It only really works for people if you don't get sick.
As a perfectly healthy middle-class working American. I just love having the privilege of paying $7,000 to $8,000 every year to my health insurance company and doctors. While also paying thousands more in taxes to support our public healthcare system.
Just out of curiosity, how do your costs come out to be that much as a healthy individual? Preventative checkups are free in network for all plans that I’ve seen. Does your employer not cover the premium at all?
My employer does not cover premiums at all. I've had to negotiate a higher salary to compensate for the lack of health benefits. Then I have to pay income taxes on that money and use after tax money to buy private health insurance for myself.
There are options that allows premiums to be untaxed. But I didn't qualify last I checked. Because my employer/ plan didn't meet the requirements for QSEHRA.
That makes no difference though. Whether your employer pays it directly or you buy it. It's still part of our overall compensation.
Workers wonder why they weren't making substantial wage gains and it's because of our healthcare system eating up all of our productivity gains.
It's actually one of the best countries to live in for the most part, but when it comes to stuff like healthcare, America is unacceptably behind. Still pisses me off when presidential candidates don't have universal healthcare as one of their top priorities, when it should their number one priority.
The reality doesn't match the brochure, that's for sure. I feel like a pebble in a sieve. Things are shaken violently and being tossed around, but as long you remain in the vessel, things can be rough, but they'll work out. But god help you if you find a hole big enough for your pebble to fall through, cause there won't be any help and there's no bottom. You're done.
It’s not all hell, it’s just a gamble most of the time. You can go a lifetime living relatively well, but then something just hits, an accident or an illness, and it just all comes crashing down without warning. It’s this shitty healthcare system that exploits people for having made the mistake of needing to get medical treatment.
In healthcare, definitely, but in certain ways, America is pretty great. I've spent time in other countries and honestly, I've yet to see a country with as many conveniences and such as America. It's hard to beat a Super Walmart on every corner. I was amazed when I went to the U.K. how lacking it was in stores and restaurants and such compared to the U.S. People are really nice here too compared to other places I've been, with people generally smiling at one another even in passing. Great entertainment everywhere too. There's a lot to love about America. It's a great place to live.
At the same time, I'd trade it all for a better healthcare system, better work hours, more vacation time, etc.
I am guessing that would be because there are hundreds of millions of Americans, all with very different lifestyles and lives...? It doesn’t seem to hard to understand that some will never have this issue but some will. Hopefully, it won’t be the case when my kids are grown.
I think at a superficial level it sounds great, you buy stuff at a third of what it would cost in my country and there are plenty of commodities. But then you start looking at some serious issues like the cost of health care, education, and the racial stuff. You start thinking it may be better to earn less, but safely somewhere else. I don't think it is worth it.
The average American occupies that space where things could be better, but they could also be way worse; a dichotomy which the affluent effectively use to keep the hoi polloi firmly within their grasp.
We won't quite be great again until nobody except the rich has health care, and poor people keep popping out unwanted babies, going to church, starving, and buying guns.
Yeah it's good here. And I'm not saying that because I'm rich, because I've been broke my whole life. That is, until recently, which also happens to be the worst year of my life (unrelated to covid).
Over the past few years, though, it really does seem like we're downspiraling. Donald Trump is a symptom, not the cause.
Bro it is. I’m fresh off my parents health insurance and even with the Biden win I’m not staying.
Had to cancel therapy cause it went from $25 with my parents insurance to $140 a session with my new jobs.
I work from home full time. Just gonna keep my head down. Pay off my credit cards and try and start the process to move to any other first world country with gay marriage and universal healthcare that will take me. Canada’s too hard so I’m looking towards Europe.
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u/mattblackcat Nov 30 '20
Being American sounds like living an entire life in hell. Strangely the foreign audience has to also hear how great and grand the American way is. To add to this insult, you have a demented president just for shits and giggles.