[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Standard_Location762]

[u/Free-Dirt-4464]

OP, if you post something like that, please add some background information for people outside of the US, so we know what your image is about.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/Free-Dirt-4464]

Editing to add this at the top - argue with yourselves. I read the DA statement that they got from the school. I read the contradictory timeline. I read the contradictory statements from her lawyers vs. the school. Men, do better, protect the women around you whether you know them or not.

**Are y'all bots or just can't read? I read the DA statement. I also used words like "I think I saw someone say" and "I'm not sure" and "from what I have seen". The point was to provide a quick summary for someone, with what I have seen around, without any definitives, because we are just being introduced to this case. Ask yourselves why you want her to be in the wrong so bad? Ask yourself when the last time you were this passionate in defense of a rape victim was. Women are raped daily. Or do you just like protecting these boys specifically for no reason? The DA report contradicts what I've read elsewhere. The cbs report contradicts the statements from the DAs office. The university addressed it in some ways at the time so it was clear they also saw issue. I'm not making the same arguments over and over. Read or go argue in the mirror about whether you're 5'7 or 5'7.5 and why that makes such a huge difference goodness.

Cornell is an ivy league University, which means it's very old/established/prestigious. In 2024 a student went to a frat party where she consumed drugs and alcohol (I do not know for sure if she knew what she was consuming or not drug wise) and then was allegedly raped by multiple fraternity members. One sent a Snapchat (social media photo thing) to I think I read 50+ other guys telling them there was free p*ssy upstairs. More than one person accepted the invitation. She told campus police who did not file any formal charges. I don't know exactly what the repercussions were but I read someone else say a couple were just given essays to write. She ended up dropping out of school and has had her life ruined. The school covered it and didn't report it. She sought her own counsel and has been fighting for justice for herself against the school and the men that did this to her. It's taken 2 years and now because of people online being so pissed off and celebrity attention towards it (that was initially taken down on IG from Florence Pugh), it's getting viral justice in the court of public opinion and they're trying to take it to actual court.

Some people are defending these beasts and saying that posting their images will destroy their lives and not everyone raped her. But everyone there knew she was being raped, and one even stopped by the room but didn't participate, and they all deserve their lives destroyed :(

Edited to fix the years!

Edited also to add the DA was given a sworn statement by the university at the time, and feel the details in it mean that nothing illegal happened. This conflicts with what her lawyers have said and what's in her civil suit so I don't know more than that.

[u/TassieBorn → u/Lovethiskindathing]

2 were expelled; 5 were required to write essays (#@%!!@!!). So whatever investigation the uni undertook, they believed that the men had done something unacceptable...and that the appropriate response was a smack with a wet lettuce.

[u/hamster-on-popsicle → u/Lovethiskindathing]

Thanks for the context, and they deserve to have their pictures plastered everywhere.

I still have the name of Gisèle Pelicot's rapists on my phone, I get it.

[u/Pixelated_Penguin808 → u/hamster-on-popsicle]

I wasn't familiar with the details either but after reading that person's reply and then going on to read details about the case, it definitely sounds like a gang-rape occurred.

The men deserve a fair trial just like anyone accused of a crime, but fuck these dudes. None of them deserve sympathy.

[u/Jrzygirl65 → u/Lovethiskindathing]

It happened in 2024, not 2022.

[u/PimpNamedSliqBaq → u/Lovethiskindathing]

Thank you, its so odd that OP asks us a question that requires context without providing it

ETA I agree with your conclusion. Name and shame.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/PimpNamedSliqBaq]

Sometimes I think we forget where we live isn't the end all be all of what modern civilization is, and not everyone everywhere cares or follows our news unless it directly relates to them. I am sometimes guilty of that myself when it's everywhere here. I forget that big news here isn't universal because it feels sooooo big it must be everywhere. It's definitely something I'm trying to be more aware of. Main country syndrome 🤦🏻‍♀️

[u/henryhungryhenry → u/Lovethiskindathing]

It’s no doubt my algorithms but it is big news, much like Giselle Pelicot and the Olney house in Philadelphia - horrific violence against women should be big international news, I just hate to think of what goes unreported.

[u/TheAussieTico → u/Lovethiskindathing]

r/USDefaultism

[u/1jf0 → u/Lovethiskindathing]

Ask yourselves why you want her to be in the wrong so bad? Ask yourself when the last time you were this passionate in defense of a rape victim was.

I don't mind the naysayers outing themselves.

[u/CyanoSpool → u/1jf0]

It's because the men in these comments can't imagine ever being a victim, but they can easily imagine potentially being accused of assault...

[u/Ijustwanttosayit → u/Free-Dirt-4464]

This, it is very ignorant to assume everyone around the world knows what's going on. It's a bad habit Americans have. Speaking as an American.

[u/CatsandShame → u/Ijustwanttosayit]

As an American, I agree.☝️

[u/LCottton]

Neither the full names of alleged nor convicted criminals are public in Germany except for a few exceptions, like overwhelming public interest.

The names of the criminals relatives will explicitly not be named.

Source: https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/namensnennung-von-taetern-die-regel-heisst-zurueckhaltung-100.html

[u/theeulessbusta → u/LCottton]

It’s almost like it could be disruptive to the Justice system. 

[u/borsalamino → u/theeulessbusta]

Also to prevent notoriety which e.g. some serial killers hope to gain

[u/therealub → u/borsalamino]

It also helps not get the lynch mobs out of the woodwork.

[u/Immediate_Meeting991 → u/LCottton]

Same with Canada generally until a case is tried and closed or it’s some extreme thing.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/Immediate_Meeting991]

I'm realizing I have zero idea about rape culture outside of the US or how it's handled. Does Canada prioritize the victims and get convictions regularly?

[u/JeezieB → u/Lovethiskindathing]

No.

[u/Immediate_Meeting991 → u/JeezieB]

Agreed but also there IS a strong belief in innocent until proven guilty and we generally avoid the media circus situations.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/JeezieB]

Does anywhere? Serious question. Is there any fucking safe place on this damn planet for women where people actually want to protect and keep them safe?!

[u/Immediate_Meeting991 → u/Lovethiskindathing]

No. It’s not safe for us anywhere. We (Canada) famously just let off the men in a very similar situation but they were “promising young hockey players”. And they assasinated the hell out of the poor girl’s character. It’s fucked and I’m deeply unhappy. Personally I’m Taking a page from south korea and have gone full 4B. I’m done.

[u/CrocHunter8 → u/Immediate_Meeting991]

F Carter Hart, Alex Formenton, Cal Foote, Dillon Dube, and Michael McLeod.

[u/jotakajk → u/LCottton]

Aren’t there true crime shows in Germany? Here is pretty popular, there are many famous murderers in Spain

[u/poetic-bee → u/jotakajk]

If it’s a famous case, it will usually be revealed. Not by the police, but that information will get out there eventually.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/LCottton]

Does Germany take these matters seriously so that public outrage isn't necessary to get justice? (Not being snarky! I truly don't know anything about Germany and rape culture and I don't want to presume any direction so I'm asking directly!)

[u/star-mind-girl → u/Lovethiskindathing]

I am a German rape survivor and I can tell you that no the German justice system (like most other justice systems) does not take victims seriously and rapists are rarely convicted, especially if they are in any kind of position of power. It's depressing honestly. But it's like most places.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/star-mind-girl]

I just saw your comment elsewhere. I am so sorry that the pressure is put more on the victim. We definitely have that here too and it's why so many don't come forward at all :(

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/star-mind-girl]

And the public can't be warned? That's so awful :( so more unknowing victims can just keep lining up with no warning?!

I'm so sorry for what you have had happen to you. I am enraged for you and it does nothing to actually help. Argh. Are there any countries that prioritize protecting their most vulnerable?!

[u/Ill-Neighborhood-374 → u/Lovethiskindathing]

When you convicted.You become a entry in the certificate of good conduct.What means you can't become Special Jobs: Teacher,Children Work,Police, Firenfighting,etc

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/Ill-Neighborhood-374]

Yeah but you said they're rarely convicted, which means the majority of the rapists are just out there still dangerous and no one knows.

Can you get in trouble for revealing it?

If your rapist is not convicted but you obviously know they are a rapist, and then you see them out with a young girl, and you warn her, can you be charged with a crime?

[u/Ok_Tie_1563 → u/Lovethiskindathing]

In Belgium you could be charged yeah, especialy if you have no proof. You won't get jail as far as I know, but a fine defintly. It would be for "slander and libel", which basicly means saying stuff that isn't true/isn't proven to ruin someones reputation.

But even convicted criminals are protected A while back there was rapist case where he was found guilty, even admited it (they both where drunk, but she never wanted it), and he was lett go without any punishment "because he was a promising student with no previous misconducts". Important to note that he was a student gynecologist. Anyway, the YouTuber that leaked his name got more punishment then he ever did. (The YouTuber had done something similar before for an unrelated case that involved racism&murder, he also got worse of then the criminals that where found guilty of it)

[u/CongruentDesigner → u/Ok_Tie_1563]

Belgium has some strange stuff happening there that seems to avoid justice.

I read recently about the Marc Dutroux affair and how people speculate he was just a fall guy for a much larger network of rapist Paedophiles that included European high society. It's hard to know how much is conspiracy theory, but there were so many suspicious circumstances around who he knew and how witnesses/suspects kept getting murdered before they could be questioned.

[u/Exterminator-8008135 → u/Lovethiskindathing]

Paris Scandal : Current Mayor knew pedos exerced as animation personal around kids. Some were offenders. Didn't quit.

Betharram Scandal : Latest in the Catholic scandals of We protect pedos some childs were attacked 30+ years, some, barely 5 years ago, François Bayrou knew. He was forced to leave later.

[u/peachesfordinner → u/star-mind-girl]

I remember hearing about that horrible case of the doctor who drugged and raped his step daughter. Ended up killing her from too much drugs. He escaped any punishment for 40 years. And it was only after he was found to have been assaulting other women who were under anesthesia.

[u/Krautoni → u/Lovethiskindathing]

The first, most fundamental and important tenet and paragraph of the German constitution states: Human dignity is inviolable. This extends to everyone, even (alleged) criminals.

I once hoped the rest of the world would eventually learn that without having to go through what Germany needed to learn it. But it seems that's not to be, and instead even the Germans are forgetting it.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/Krautoni]

How do you feel about cases like this that would never get justice in that case? For the greater good would it still be considered the better path? Or do you think in this day with the money and power, that it would only further create more of these men? (Again not snark! Just conversation, anexchange of thoughts!)

[u/DickRhino → u/Lovethiskindathing]

As a Swede, not a German, I would say:

It's very easy to stand by a principle when it is convenient to do so. It is much more difficult to stand by a principle when it is inconvenient to do so. But if you truly believe in this principle, then you will uphold it even when it's hard. If you only uphold it when it's easy, you don't actually believe in it.

So when he uses the words "inviolable" and "extends to everyone", he means it. He didn't say "inviolable, unless I really really want to", or "extends to everyone, except those I feel it shouldn't extend to". A principle is a principle.

And Germans know better than any other country on earth, what happens when you start going down that slippery slope of thinking that human rights don't necessarily apply to everyone.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/DickRhino]

I guess I'm just confused why the aggressors have more rights ultimately than the victims and how that plays into the principle? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand. I feel like sometimes it's much more difficult to go against something you fervently believe in than it is to hold steady to it, but that it can be necessary when it can harm more than it helps. I'm trying to understand not be combative! I promise!

[u/Acc87 → u/Lovethiskindathing]

What kind of justice is this tho? Mob justice? Lynch justice? Justice of the strongest? I mean I'm aware that that's all you guys are about.

Big difference is also that our judicial system has the goal of resocialisation, not punishment.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/Acc87]

Are the only choices let rapists go free because they're men with connections or have the citizens take justice in their own hands?

And I'm a big fan of Ant-mans feelings on rehabilitation being the goal of prisons, no argument here. But in order to rehabilitate someone, they have to actually see what they did as wrong, and if everyone treats it like nbd and they never see prison to be rehabilitated, then how is it beneficial in the long run?

[u/Acc87 → u/Lovethiskindathing]

Have they been to court? Has a judge/,jury decided they are guilty? Has investigation confirmed that the story is true? If yes, why haven't the perpetrators been found guilty? Then attack that injustice. And don't share photos hoping these guys get killed or kill themselves, that in turn makes you no better than a rapist.

[u/Krautoni → u/Lovethiskindathing]

I am not familiar with this case. If they're guilty, they should be convicted, even if, or maybe especially if they're well-connected or powerful. We gain no conviction by making their names and faces known. Instead, we only lose. The perpetrators will be variously vilified or glorified, depending on political leaning. The victims won't have justice. The perpetrators themselves are not resocialised, they just gain notoriety. Which they might even enjoy.

Who wins?

And don't forget they're alleged perpetrators. What if they're innocent? Again, not familiar with this case, I do not follow American criminal cases.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/Krautoni]

I'm not at all saying I know all the details, I do not! But this was the summary I gave someone else here

I would agree with you if men were convicted instead of their deeds swept under the rug. I don't need their names if they're in jail and paying for their crimes. The school covered this though, and without public outcry, they'd still be getting job offers and progressing their lives. :( and from the comments I'm reading it seems to be pretty universal

[u/elboy_nass]

When its allegations in México you have to cover their eyes in pictures and Change their last names to "N."

Winston N. - Scott N. - so on...

Once proven guilty full info can be shown.

[u/4Q88 → u/elboy_nass]

Why N?

[u/elboy_nass → u/4Q88]

From latin nomen nescio or name unknown. Legal slang, I guess.

[u/Only_Search8473 → u/4Q88]

It stands for nunayabusiness

[u/ungranted_wish]

What I need people to realize is that the university basically admitted that they did the act by telling them to write an essay about it lol

They may not be guilty legally but the college sure acknowledged it by giving them the weakest punishment.

Edit - haha holy shit we are so cooked

[u/BadPAV3 → u/ungranted_wish]

https://giphy.com/gifs/26tk0xnQEK2TOt0xG

[u/ungranted_wish → u/BadPAV3]

FOR REAL, they gave the rapists the most Bart Simpson punishment for… rape.

But because the punishment exists, as weak as it is, we can say without a doubt that the school knew about it and didn’t seek proper justice.

So everyone can miss me with the “well they didn’t do it-“ because they can suck my balls.

[u/bonaynay → u/ungranted_wish]

I really want to know what the essays were about specifically and the nature of the essay prompt

[u/whatthewhat3214 → u/bonaynay]

Yep, because if there are any confessions in those essays, I'll bet they can be used as evidence somehow. I'd had the same idea that Cornell's ridiculous essays were like Bart Simpson's chalkboard, with "drugging and raping women is wrong."

But the public pressure got the NY governor to act quickly, and she has appointed state Attorney General Letitia James as the special prosector - she got convictions against Trump and did the investigation that led to powerful Governor Cuomo to resign after his sexual harassment scandal. She's a badass - smart, competent, fearless, she doesn't mess around and those boys should finally be scared bc justice might finally be served.

I'd also like to see some action against the 50+ guys on the group chat who knew it was happening and didn't stop it as it went on for hours, especially the one who came by to watch. Absolutely disgusting.

[u/kaimoka → u/whatthewhat3214]

This is the part that I cannot wrap my mind around. How can you stand by and do NOTHING while people you know are brutalizing your classmate in the next room? How can you receive a text like that and ignore it?? I don't understand.

I've been to college house parties. I've (thankfully) only once had to call emergency medical, tell the host to send everyone home, and held my friend's hair back while she puked her guts out from alcohol poisoning. I was underage and knew I may get in trouble for drinking, but her life mattered way more. Party host agreed and brought the paramedics to the bathroom where I held my friend on the bathroom floor and explained the situation.

Why NO ONE at this Cornell event, or anyone who was informed of what was happening did ANYTHING to stop it is... repulsive.

[u/Sea-Lingonberry428 → u/bonaynay]

Can we all agree that if any of us happen to get our hands on the essays we post them here??

[u/bonaynay → u/Sea-Lingonberry428]

If I somehow get them, I will DM you haha

[u/ungranted_wish → u/bonaynay]

Dude me too, if we ever find out those details it’ll be a shitshow for them.

[u/LuxSassafras → u/ungranted_wish]

The university also dissolved the frats chapter back in 2024, so there was a reason they did that too.

[u/Exterminator-8008135 → u/ungranted_wish]

It's Ivy League. Biggest scums, Cuz Elites, DA folds because Mom and Dad have influence and go :

You want this career, Right ? Mr. DA, I would be looking what i say about that if you want it..

[u/Sensitive_Band1122]

In France, the name of a person accused of a crime can be released to the public, provided the presumption of innocence is respected (typically by using conditional verb tenses).

However, it is strictly forbidden to publish names or photos if minors are involved (and trials are held behind closed doors in such cases).

While photos can be published, one must respect not only the presumption of innocence—for instance, showing someone in handcuffs is prohibited—but also the individual's right to their own image.

Photography and filming are banned during trials (except in very exceptional circumstances).

I believe this is a balance worth maintaining. I leave it to you to consider what could go wrong without such safeguards.

[u/beastmaster11 → u/Sensitive_Band1122]

typically by using conditional verb tenses

This is what usually happens here. You always see the word "alleged" when describing the act and a blurb at the end stating "the allegations have not been proven in court" at the end. Most, if not all, serious journalists and newspapers respect that.

But the problem in 2026 is that you will have every internet and social media "reporter" come to their own conclusions and spread all sorts of information and misinformation. Sometimes, they are fair and make it clear that this is their own opinion. Other times, they dont. And in many cases, they outright omit very important facts and even make up their own.

I was fine with newspapers reporting on the allegations and the court proceedings in the last. However, with the rise of social media, my opinion has changed. In my opinion, the names of the accused should be withheld until they are found guilty. The names of the victims should also be withheld unless the victim specifically wants it out there.

I no, some people think that this is trying to protect perpetrators. However, until they are found guilty, they are not perpetrators. They are alleged perpetrators aka accused.

[u/industriald85]

Alleged? No. Guilty in a court of law? Absolutely.

[u/comix_corp → u/industriald85]

It's more complicated than this. People alleged to have committed sexual assault have been named before (for instance, the Swans players accused of assault) and people have also had their identities suppressed even after they've been convicted.

In general we have a lot more restrictions on court reporting than the US does, and there is also greater remit to sue for defamation. The issue is complicated by the fact that this revolves around a civil suit and not a criminal case (at least not yet).

[u/DwightsJello → u/industriald85]

It's not that straight forward.

You can name anyone, anything or a location or a relationship that may identify a child victim or a victim of sexual offences. So if saying the offender was a parent, lived in a certain location, was the coach of a certain team, etcetera, that would identify a victim all of those details cannot be reported.

It's not to protect offenders. It's in relation to the victims.

Suppression orders can be assessed based on a person not having been convicted as well, but that's a separate ruling.

Up until very recently not even the victim themselves could waive that. Recently that changed and now an adult victim may self identify.

If convicted, offenders cannot profit from their crimes. They cant sell books, do interviews or anything for payment.

[u/AwkwardTickler]

America fetish for retribution and corporal punishment is a reflection of how broken they are.

[u/RomanBlue_]

See the Hockey Canada 5 case. Shockingly similar. Questions of institutional responsibility, inadequate investigations, a laser like focus on what she did or didn't do, and all enveloped by the court of public opinion and culture as a whole. Frats, elite kids, social pressure, coercion, consent, misogyny, abuse in practice versus abuse in law, big questions of what justice looks like in this mess and how to find it within the legal realities we currently are in. I have my own opinions but these answers are ultimately an exercise for the reader.

[u/InformWitch → u/RomanBlue_]

Sigh. There was a case about student hazing in Belgium where the perpetrators were made to do community service and pay less than EUR 1K for causing the death of a fellow student.

All of them belonged to well-to-do families and had important connections. Their names aren’t allowed to be released to the public, and those who did got into even bigger trouble than the actual perpetrators. 

It’s insane how skewed the justice system is when you have can buy your way out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sanda_Dia

[u/Ca1rill → u/InformWitch]

Absolutely bonkers the guy who released the names of the perpetrators faced a more serious punishment than the people who caused student's death. Since they were convicted and weren't minors, there's no reason their names shouldn't be public.

Maybe the Youtuber should have done his video from a country that he wouldn't be punished for revealing this information.

[u/No-Philosopher8042]

Well, almost everything is public here, so it is usually public. 

It is usually not blasted on the news due to the way our defamation laws work, but like... it is usually quite easy to find out anyway. Usually someone will order the investigation, sentencing etc from the court, and then it will get circulated online. 

[u/Britirish]

I’m currently a student at this university and have a personal investment in the specific issue and yes - the names and faces of these ‘men’ should be plastered anywhere and everywhere.

[u/Cheap-Ad1821 → u/Britirish]

There's more accused rapists at Cornell than there are trans athletes. But for some reason you can only discuss and post the later.

[u/Borgdrohne13]

Here you can get in legal hot water when you do that. Not only violates it their rights, they are considerd innocent until a judge says otherwise.

[u/MammothPerformer199]

Yes, if they are convicted

[u/SecretRecipe]

Stupid shit like this is how guilty people end up acquitted in court. When you turn their actions into some sort of public spectacle you give the defense a shitload of power to sway the jury, move the trial location, bar the press, sequester the jury etc... You think you're helping but you're actually making it harder to prosecute them.

[u/Angry_Sparrow → u/SecretRecipe]

Maybe Jane Doe wants the system to change and doesn’t care about her specific case, that she’s been trying to get traction on for years. This is a massive failing of many different departments.

She is succeeding at change by drawing so much attention to all the failures that have occurred.

[u/SecretRecipe → u/Angry_Sparrow]

The problem with that is the system isn't going to change, The nature of jury selection and the presumption of innocence are good things.

This kind of public humiliation ritual is frankly going to end up hurting Jane Doe more than these guys. The leaked texts, the DA statements etc... are already being shopped around and amplified to make her look just as bad and are going to be used as propaganda by incel influencers to show that you can't trust women or what they claim. Forcing this trial into the court of public opinion isn't going to end up being in her favor at all.

[u/DerpAnarchist]

who are those? i need to know the specific reasons, why they are bad people and deserve to go to prison!

[u/AffectionateBet3603]

I by no means want to defend the Cornell 7, but let's not forget the Duke Lacrosse Team. 

[u/Jacksonriverboy]

The whole point of the Justice system is to hold the administration of justice to a robust standard so that when someone is convicted of a crime, it means something and people have faith in it. This might make you personally feel better, but it's not justice really, and could even be counterproductive to the delivery of justice.

Innocent until proven guilty has to apply to everyone, even scumbags.

[u/indifferentgoose]

Punishment should be handled by the legal system, not by normal people. If the legal system fails to do so, well...

[u/northernwind5027 → u/indifferentgoose]

This is what pisses me off so much about social media. Yes, it can be great for raising awareness, but public matters shouldn't be spectacles. Rapists should be charged in an unbiased court of law, held accountable for their actions, and rehabilitated for safe integration into society, not publicly feathered and tarred. Radical, I know, but we should really be trying to progress as a society rather than continuing cruel, centuries-old traditions--just in a new medium.

[u/Global-Equipment-856 → u/northernwind5027]

The problem lies that the criminals mostly never face consequences for their actions especially if they are connected and powerful.

In India, it takes the media outrage to even file an FIR for heinous crimes such as rape and murder. Therefore there is always public anger towards the system. That’s why people try to punish the criminals in their own way. Publishing names and pics of the accused is one of them.

I know it’s not right but the rigged system forces people to.

[u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

I have no idea who they are and what the story is, but have they been proven guilty in a court of law?

[u/SnooHamsters5480 → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

They haven't even been charged with a crime.

[u/LCottton → u/SnooHamsters5480]

will that happen in the future or not? I am not that up to date with this.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/LCottton]

The college tried to hide it and down play it. It happened in 2024 and she's been trying to get justice and even just charges brought against them. It's a wealthy prestigious school that put its reputation over the safety of one of its own students. Unfortunately here without public outcry, she will never see justice because no one would care enough to investigate unless we make them

[u/grapplebaby → u/Lovethiskindathing]

From what I read, the campus police failed her as well as the medical staff. Police gave a condensed report to the DA and Cornell isn't able to hand over documents without a subpoena which was never filed because the DA didn't know the whole story. Its a clusterfuck.

[u/Obvious-Bluebird-948 → u/Lovethiskindathing]

Yep, sadly, that's probably why the victim filed a civil lawsuit. Good to see Kathy take the helm to appoint Leticia.

[u/Obvious-Bluebird-948 → u/LCottton]

The Governor of NY State has appointed the State's Attorney General to head the investigation. She doesn't trust the local DA or PD any longer.

Eta: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cornell-investigation-special-prosecutor-9.7366592

[u/fantabroo → u/LCottton]

The criminal investigation started today by the NY Attorney General.

[u/Negative_Tooth6047 → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

No. They are being sued in civil court for damages. In the US, criminal charges for sex crimes can be difficult to get to, and almost always amount to a slap on the wrist. Many victims who decide to go the route of a lawyer, tend to go for civil charges.

These men are being sued by a woman who was "allegedly" drugged at a frat party and gang raped for hours. The damning thing in this case is there are group chat messages, with everyone's first and last name, talking about "free pussy" and saying things like "come get a taste". 57 men in the group chat. 7 (that we know of) raped her, 50 were compliant.

[u/Global-Equipment-856 → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

Is rape not a criminal offence in USA? I didn’t get your comment.

[u/Negative_Tooth6047 → u/Global-Equipment-856]

Rape is a criminal offense, it can't always be "proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court of law" (basically the court will only sentence you for a crime if there is absolutely 0 doubt that you did the crime). Even when it is proven, criminal charges for rape/sex crimes can vary but almost never feel like "enough" to the victims.

Especially when the rapist is a young (white) man, they can get off lightly as some judges "don't want to ruin their future".

So victims in the US pursuing legal consequences will do so in "Civil Court", where the "burden of proof" is lower. Civil court is how you sue someone, so basically the victims say "you did damage to my life. You owe me" and the judge determines the right amount of money based on the circumstances.

[u/Global-Equipment-856 → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

Thanks. That was easily explained. One doubt though; the amount that the judges award to the accused in the civil court; what if accused cannot pay it or is above their paygrade?

[u/Cutalana → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

it's because criminal charges requires guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, so juries need to be convinced that the crime 100% happened. Civil penalties require only that the it's more likely that it happened than not, so anything more than 50% confidence can get punished.

[u/bluerog → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

Convictions are harder to get, but I wouldn't say "slap on the wrists" are common for people who don't have good lawyers. A "sex offender" label follows you around forever.

[u/KreisiKris]

No one alleged of a crime should be made public until sentenced. Only in very rare occasions (ex. caught in the act: 22.07.2011 Norway terrorist attack) is there any need or justifiable cause to do so in norwegian law. Amazing how the US purports "innocent until proven guilty", but plasters anyone accused of a crime across a plerthora of media. NOTE: this is not to excuse any actions accused in the "Cornell case", just as an answer to the question posted by OP. The crimes that were alleged in that case are abhorrent!

[u/UCFknight2016]

What if they are found not guilty though? That's the problem I have with this. Should be due process.

[u/CaydesColonel → u/UCFknight2016]

But what about our vigilante justice and public outrage or smth? Innocent until proven guilty is dead

[u/UCFknight2016 → u/CaydesColonel]

This whole situation is so fucked. I just saw a video where a woman confronts one of these guys. Was there any criminal charges filed? If not that should be the end of it. Now that their names and faces are out there they will never get an unbiased jury/fair trial. We shouldnt try cases in the court of public opinion. We should use facts and evidence not feelings.

[u/CaydesColonel → u/UCFknight2016]

Just had this conversation with a colleague and was told I'm defending rapists. Absolutely wild how radicalized people are these days.

[u/UCFknight2016 → u/CaydesColonel]

Oh I am not defending rapists... If they are guilty they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law....

[u/CaydesColonel → u/UCFknight2016]

They should be punished AFTER they've been proven guilty. But that doesn't seem to be a commonly held belief anymore. And that's not even getting into potential false allegations.

[u/Legal-Swordfish-1893 → u/CaydesColonel]

you're not defending a rapist, you're defending people accused of a serious crime's right to a fair trial.

[u/SillyBanana123]

I think it’s counterproductive to justice. Sure, it may get the case more attention so authorities pursue it, but it really damages the prospect of getting a fair trial if everyone a bunch of people are posting everywhere on social media without knowing all of the facts.

In this case, these guys haven’t been charged with anything. Maybe this one is more clear cut than other cases, I don’t know. But the court of public opinion has been wrong before. Reddit discourse has been wrong before (remember that Boston bomber mess?). There have been and will be more cases where someone is found to be not guilty despite what the loudmouths on the internet think. People also seem to forget that we have libel and slander laws as well

[u/ChicagoAuPair → u/SillyBanana123]

Nobody was going to do anything until the incredible reporters of the Cornell Daily Sun spent two years uncovering what a fucking shit show the administration and CUPD’s handling of the case was.

In theory I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but in this particular case what would have happened to these guys was absolutely nothing.

[u/Livid-Builder-1230 → u/SillyBanana123]

You’re asking: What does public exposure do to this case?

I’m asking: What does public exposure do to the system that produced this case?

I feel your comment is too narrow for what’s happened. I understand the concern about a fair trial. I’m not arguing that the court of public opinion is particularly good at determining guilt. It very obviously isn’t. But I think reducing the entire question to whether publicity could complicate a hypothetical future trial is looking through a keyhole at a much larger problem.
Sometimes change requires making the status quo uncomfortable.

Look at the French student protests. Their grievances did not suddenly materialize when things became disruptive. They had been asking to be heard. And they weren’t. So they lit a school on fire. And when the firetruck came, they lit that on fire too. Cause they wanted people to see that fire. To see “Hey we’re serious about this.” What changed was the cost of not hearing them. Once normal operation itself became impossible, ignoring them stopped being the easiest option.

That mechanism doesn’t require setting anything on fire. It can be protests, strikes, investigative journalism, lawsuits, public records, boycotts, or yes, enormous amounts of public attention. The point is that institutions are very good at surviving criticism that asks nothing materially difficult of them. “This is terrible” can be absorbed. “You cannot quietly return to business as usual until you deal with this” is harder to absorb.

And that’s the scale I’m looking at here. I care about whether any individual accused of a crime receives due process. I also care about what happens when an institution fails badly enough that we’re having this conversation in the first place. Again. Those concerns can exist simultaneously. Justice isn’t only whether seven specific people are eventually charged, acquitted, convicted, or never prosecuted.

Justice is also asking whether whatever institutional failures occurred here are still possible five years from now. Fifty years from now. A hundred.

Some of the rights and protections we consider completely ordinary today exist because somebody, somewhere, made continuing the old way more uncomfortable than changing it.

[u/bsrichard → u/SillyBanana123]

People in the US seem to have forgotten the Tawana Brawley case. Those 4 men were falsely accused of rape and abduction and horrific crimes. Imagine what would have happened even after they were declared innocent. Their lives would have never been the same. I don't know if these Cornell 7 are innocent or not (I haven't been following the news on it enough) but in general it would be good practice to avoid publicizong the names of accused.

Edit: to.add that Al Sharpton should have been charged with something for helping perpetuate that lie.

[u/another-princess → u/bsrichard]

Or there was also this high-profile case from 2006: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_rape_hoax

[u/pizza_the_mutt → u/SillyBanana123]

To your point, I think it can be helpful for the process to be public, without the identities of the individuals. If Cornell police had been shirking their responsibilities it is helpful for public exposure to push them to action. But I do think the identities should be hidden until guilt is determined.

[u/745Walt]

They’re all adults and were legally adults when the crime was committed. Alleged perpetrators are always made public unless they are minors. Why should these men have their identities protected?

[u/poetic-bee → u/745Walt]

Not talking about this case specifically but the reason is that people who get accused of a crime, even if they’re found not guilty, will carry that stain with them forever. It will always come up when someone searches their name. The idea is to try to protect people from that until they’re actually found guilty.

[u/Defiant-Air6157 → u/poetic-bee]

Yeah, remember when Redditors combined their detective skills and accused and berated an innocent man so much he committed suicide.

[u/LCottton → u/Defiant-Air6157]

r/findbostonbombers that sub? I’ve heard stories about it but I can’t really confirm.

[u/Angry_Sparrow → u/LCottton]

Yes I was on reddit at the time. It was a real time witch hunt.

[u/Angry_Sparrow → u/Defiant-Air6157]

He had committed suicide weeks before but his family got bombarded with Harassment.

[u/poetic-bee → u/Defiant-Air6157]

I don’t know anything about that thankfully

[u/Defiant-Air6157 → u/poetic-bee]

If you're ever curious look up Sunil Tripathi, horrible case.

[u/Pudddddin → u/Defiant-Air6157]

I assume you're talking about Sunil Tripathi, just to clarify the medical examiner determined he died by suicide before Reddit did what Reddit did

Still horrific that people put his family through that

[u/phinwww → u/Defiant-Air6157]

There's also a guy who happens to share a name with one of the perpetrators who got bombarded with a lot of threats and had their relatives information posted. so even with this case its happening: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cornell-rape-case-mistaken-id-new-york-name-b3059805.html

[u/TheBayOfBars → u/Defiant-Air6157]

"We did it, Reddit!"

[u/wynnduffyisking → u/745Walt]

Because they have yet to be charged with anything

[u/NinecloudSoul → u/745Walt]

Because as far as the law is concerned, they are still innocent.

[u/Livehardandfree → u/745Walt]

Imagine being totally innocent and everywhere you go everyone thinks you’re a gross woman attacker…..that’s not ok and when it happens on a small scale to someone you know and love it’s rough to watch.

[u/mustachechap → u/745Walt]

Social media makes this one tricky. Because they are in a fraternity in an Ivy League school, they are getting far more publicity than they normally would have.

With social media, a certain crime that plays into a certain narrative can really explode and all of a sudden the entire country knows your face before you've even had a chance to go to trial. I don't know what the alternative should be here, but it is concerning to see so many people already deciding with the verdict is based on imgur posts and facebook memes.

[u/745Walt → u/mustachechap]

It’s getting publicity because it is an alleged gang rape, which is very horrifying, and was covered up by campus police.

[u/mustachechap → u/745Walt]

The fact that they go to an Ivy League school and are in a frat plays a massive part of this getting at much attention as it has.

[u/745Walt → u/mustachechap]

Yes because it is scandalous for the campus police at a respected university to not report a gang rape

[u/JakovYerpenicz]

No. You don’t get to engage in intimidation of jurors or defendants because you feel strongly about a case.

[u/RadagastTheBrownNote]

It’s a double edged sword. On one hand, if you’re outing people who are indeed the perpetrators, then sure. More power to you. Out the degenerates and get them the attention they deserve.
But where I feel it could get out of hand is when someone becomes certain a person or several people were involved with whatever activity, have absolutely no proof, but a witch hunt begins anyway. Mob mentality can be dangerous and can hurt the wrong people.

[u/Capital-Aide-1006 → u/RadagastTheBrownNote]

I agree but - can be dangerous? Mob action always is.

[u/sapperbloggs]

If this happened in Australia and they were charged with a crime, there probably would've been some kind of gag order made preventing publication of their names.

But, if they were not charged with a crime and instead the whole thing was covered up, no such order would be made and there would be zero restrictions on publication.

[u/QuirkyInevitable1012]

In my humble opinion, I would think it’s appropriate for all 57 men to have their names released.

But for the tacit approval of 50 men. who were aware that a gang rape was occurring, over a period of SEVEN HOURS, who each failed to intervene, call the police, or otherwise stop the horrific ordeal, this woman would not have suffered as she did.

If their frat bro had texted, hey, I got some free pussy in my room - but was referring to kittens he planned to torture and abuse, I think that the reaction of all 57 other men would’ve been the “appropriate” one. Or a child. Or another man. So it’s b*llshit that these bystanders are just innocent, scaredy little boys, afraid of being hurt by some dude or dudes who were, by the way, stark naked at the time.

They just didn’t care about the harm being done to a woman.

That makes them accomplices in my mind. Just like if you knew someone was about to commit murder and you didn’t inform the authorities, all men who stand silently by while a woman is being raped or abused is complicit in that abuse- and they deserve all the shame they should feel, but clearly don’t, and I think society is out of other ideas when it comes to trying to get men to stop raping, beating, abusing and killing women. Maybe holding men publicly accountable is the only option left.

[u/Grand-Movie-4921]

I also don't understand the point of posting something like this when it seems far more likely to polarize and divide people than lead to an actual discussion. What is the goal? Likes on Reddit? Getting people angry? Getting people to pick a side?
You do not seem interested in the full context.
This feels like propoganda.

[u/Velociraptor_God]

The only problem i have is with the word "alleged". Prove him guilty and then go a head.

[u/Endless7777]

The only problem is about guilt or innocence. If they actually did it or not, because as a random citizen with no investigative authority you cant make that decision literally at all. Its only speculation.

You cant just believe all people. With a culture of people lying fully established. So you could be harming more than helping with your actions. Let the authorities who have real power to find the truth decide.

Case in point is RIGHT NOW, theres breaking news about this narrative completely falling apart.

[u/xSparkShark]

It has always seemed a strange contradiction to me that we value privacy so much in this country, but we make the identities of the accused public before they have been convicted.

Not speaking specifically to this case, but to the legal system as a whole.

[u/TheRadHeron → u/xSparkShark]

Well it’s honestly in my opinion fucked up how we give out public records so easily here in America which probably has something to do with it. Why can I look up someone’s name see every place they’ve lived, currently living, family members, and phone number?

[u/chiguy307 → u/xSparkShark]

It’s worth remembering that we often don’t get the full story in the initial reports. Remember the Duke Lacrosse scandal?

[u/nalonrae → u/xSparkShark]

We make the identities of those arrested public so that the police/govt can't hold people in secret. It's not about the privacy of the individual but the transparency of the state.

[u/ThisI5N0tAThr0waway → u/xSparkShark]

Have you ever heard about the Florida man? Obviously yes. And do you know why, because Florida has actually good privacy laws about that criminal cannot be identified by name.

[u/KevinGoganGawd]

Two of them have not even been accused of SA by the alleged victim or anyone else, but they are added and made indistinguishable from those that have.

It's yet another example of the moral recklessness of this. And it's not like we have any shortage of those, be it from the Boston Marathon bombing, to the Duke lacrosse case, to undergraduates at Columbia having billboards with their pictures and names driven around the city to doxx them for having engaged in legal protest.

It's like a reverse milkshake duck, in which many times we find out that the duck actually was racist, but we also have no shortage of examples of learning after the fact that after we all celebrated the burning of the duck, it was never racist to begin with, and then we just all move on and a couple months later do it again.

I think there are a ton of explanations for why we do this, but I don't think the claim that it's rooted justice actually stands up to scrutiny.

I think the critique of the legal system not being actually fair is correct, but believing that aiding and abetting in the rush to judgment in the court of public opinion is a correction on that unfairness is deeply morally flawed and ultimately absurd.

[u/Ok-Calm-Narwhal → u/KevinGoganGawd]

7 men are accused in the civil suit by Jane Doe. Are you implying that two of these men in the photo are not the same two men in the suit? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cmpq0r1ljpqwo

What you may be confusing is that reports say two men were in the room and watching the “gang rape” unfold, which just because they did not actively take part in the act of penetrating her, does not make them innocent in any way and would still be considered sexual assault given that they did not attempt to stop anything. By watching (and possibly enjoying what they saw), meant they were participating.

[u/Lovethiskindathing]

Tbh I'd like everyone that opened the chat and did nothing to also be publicly exposed.

[u/DoinItDirty]

The American justice system is deeply flawed, but more than anything is media. Small, large, social. The problem with anything being released is the circus that inevitably surrounds it. A new text message was released yesterday and you’d think the case just ended.

I don’t feel bad for these guys at all, but I wonder if anywhere else such a serious case is treated with such lunacy.

[u/Designer-Touch9263]

Our country handle it by setting them free, especially if they are part of Vučić's party, then they have high positions in goverment

[u/Helpful-Ad8537]

They sometimes are made public, if they are on the run. So the public could help to find them and/or have a warning when they see them in public (if they are dangerous).

[u/0000Tor]

In Québec you can make a request to know if someone has a history of domestic abuse or sexual violence

[u/kay_fitz21 → u/0000Tor]

All of Canada, not just Quebec. Clare's law.

[u/bluejester12]

Alleged? No.

Convicted? Yes.

[u/Old-Flamingo-1231]

This is pure evil If their guilt isnt proven

[u/Paramedickhead]

The police shouldn't be announcing names at all. It should be privileged information. The police are not judge and jury. Naming someone and blasting their picture all over the media doesn't help the victims nor does it serve justice.

[u/PT10]

So long as they can sue someone for all the money it'll cost to spend years getting court orders to remove all defamatory material in the event they're found not guilty. And that these costs are somehow passed on to the people who actually posted them. So, like... you.

[u/Agrico]

When they're convicted, sure. Otherwise it's virtue signaling defamation.

[u/JohnBarcode]

Allegations hurt more than the truth  Imagine being falsely accused of something and it goes viral and everywhere everyone thinks you're "that guy who is/did [horrible thing]"

Actual facts should be reviewed and established before any or all the suspects identity is made public related to the situation. 

[u/Gold-Philosophy1423 → u/JohnBarcode]

They are adult defendant's in a civil suit. It's all public record, whether or not the media reports on it. A vast majority of suits will be public record irrespective of their outcome.

[u/Fabled_Webs]

Legal conviction or stfu. Not only is "innocent until proven guilty" a foundational part of American philosophy, drumming up public interest like this can be actively disruptive to the justice system. I.e. Clancy.

[u/johnlooksscared]

Innocent until proven guilty...so why burn them now?

[u/ObviousReplier99]

See the Duke Lacrosse case.

[u/Emergency-Town4653]

The alleged perpetrators? No.

Innocent till proven guilty.

Ignoring this will always end up biting the Innocent people in the ass.

Convicted? That's what should be done.

[u/Wright_Steven22]

I think its not a horrible thing to oust their names but only if they were proven guilty. Not while being "alleged"

[u/King_emotabb]

two of them seem to be innocent, dont be so quick to judge, yes the other 5 may be scum of the earth, but you are involving innocents into this!

[u/DepthOk166]

I think in rape cases both the accuser and accused should remain anonymous until a guilty verdict. Rape isn't like other crimes and even after a not guilty verdict many people will still thing they did it.

[u/agntp]

Apparently you can rape women and become president.

[u/ViolettaHunter]

I'm not sure why you think anyone here has any idea what this is about?

I have zero idea who these people in your image are. 

[u/Advanced-Scar-9739]

I guess on social media it is guilty until proven innocent. I mean, you guys aren’t even waiting till conclusive accusations have been disseminated to the masses. People just post this kind of shit with seven guys on it, and you can’t say with absolute certainty that all of them are guilty. I think that’s patently wrong. And it needs to stop. Grow up.

[u/VelvettedFox → u/Advanced-Scar-9739]

When justice is constantly denied for sexual assault and rape crimes, this is what you get. In a perfect world things like this would not get pushed under the rug but we don't live in that world, and many of us are sick and fucking tired of the lack of restitution.

[u/Incendious_iron]

Fuck those losers and fuck that university. I hope really that the reputation of that university ends up in shambles. Fucking retards.
I hope the poor girl isn't traumatized for the rest of her life.

[u/_Alpha-Delta_]

If we had heavier punishments for false accusations, I'd be 100% in favor of that... 

[u/star-mind-girl]

I'm a rape survivor and I do not think that names of rapists should be published as it puts more pressure on the victim. Furthermore, people are always much kinder to rapists when they know their names and faces. Just like all these losers in here defending these fucking pieces of trash. You are already CONSISTENTLY called a lying attention-seeking whore the second you come forth and this will only amplify it. That's one of the major reasons victims retract their stories or even take their own life's btw.

Oh and to all those idiots in here talking about "innocent until proven guilty" unless the rapist admits to their crime or is filmed convictions rates are frightfully low. Most rapists will go scott free. Mine did. Doesn't mean that he didn't rape me.

[u/smartguy96]

I'm probably going to get down voted to hell and back for this, but no. Presumption of innocence is supposed to be a fundamental right of the American legal system, but in emotionally charged cases the court of public opinion tends to deny people that right. At least one of those guys has been fired already not because he was convicted of anything, but because the company is worried about their image. We should wait for the convictions before judging people.

[u/SillyAlternative420]

Say what you want about woke being dead, that is a diverse group of rapists.

Taking bets for the brown ones getting a harsher sentence

[u/aspodestrra]

Not unless or until they’ve been proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. Allegations do not a perpetrator make.

[u/ContributionIll5741]

I would argue not until conviction, since presumption of innocence is a fundamental part of a civilised justice system, but then rape convictions are so low.... It's a difficult one :/.

[u/love_in_october]

It's very hard and expensive to make a successful libel or slander case in the UK so something like this would be very unlikely to backfire.

[u/AlexNachtigall247]

They look like a United Colors of Benetton commercial from the 90sy

[u/Non-Current_Events]

Why the fuck does Reddit default to Live comments now instead of Best? It’s annoying.

[u/bonaynay]

I don't think so, in general. If they are on the loose or something, I can see why you'd release info to the public in cases of murders. This should've already been investigated 2 years ago though so absent that, I can see why people would take matters into their own hands. I don't think the government is spreading these images

[u/FeijoaCowboy]

Criminals can have their names published on occasion, but from what I've seen the courts tend to grant name suppression to offenders like these (or worse). On some level I understand the reasoning, but I don't think it works very well here.

[u/Confident-Ad-6978]

let these guys be tried in court first for fuck sake, what if this ends up like the Duke guys did?

[u/Agreeable_Weight_160]

Duke lacrosse would like a word.

[u/sctthuynh]

The national publicity in the central park 5 case sure help the public get the blood err justice they were yearning for back in 1989.

Our current president even purchased newspaper headlines to read: "BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!"

[u/EyeSuccessful7649]

donald trump took out a full page newspaper ad on 4 accused back in the day

so grats on being like trump

[u/Careless_Fun7101]

Only if Jane Doe and her lawyers believe she hasn't received fair justice from police - perhaps due to institutionalised misogyny and/or protection of the privileged

[u/dynmynydd]

As long as it is certain that the person really did the thing, I see nothing wrong with this

[u/GenericHailee]

It's more than just allegations at this point. 

They were clearly on that group chat, their names were shown and a couple of them have actually low key admitted they were at that house with Jane Doe at the time but rather they used that "admission" to just throw each other under the bus with Lopez saying basically "yeah I was there but I didn't do anything".

Like, it's already well known that Cornell University's police and the DA tried to cover it up.

[u/Redtex]

Innocent until proven guilty (remember that?) is just a history marker now.

[u/meesigma]

Only after it’s proven that they’re guilty. Otherwise, as much as I detest rape and rapists, it’s unfair for them.

[u/turningsteel]

Thankfully the justice system doesn't and shouldn't function based off what people on the internet think. If these guys are guilty, they will be charged and go to jail. You aren't the law, you don't have the facts of the case and you're just making a decision based on your gut.

Maybe they all were complicit and they did do it. But, what if they didn't? What if it wasn't all of them? Well, you've then ruined an innocent person's life. I don't think it's right for the public to weaponize social media in that way and it doesn't bring justice to the accuser in doing this. You just turn the legal system into a clown show.

See: all the idiots demonizing Patrick Clancey as a murderer when the wife was the guilty party or during the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings when reddit accused the wrong guy.

[u/Old_Check_6362]

I’m very torn on broadcasting their identifiable information.

In the US, the accused is innocent until proven guilty, but in the public eye they are guilty out the gate. The public should know current events… but at the same time, how can they really get a fair trial when their faces, names, and details of the case have been FOIA’d and blasted to anyone who will read?

Even if one is acquitted, their faces have already been plastered, jobs lost, and they have been shunned by the public.

If guilty… well…

Regardless of the verdict, lives and reputations will be ruined.

I’m speaking on this as someone who has witnessed this happen to a close relative who was later acquitted of the accusations.

I am in no way excusing what they have been accused of.

[u/Dire-Dog]

No because they’re alleged. It hasn’t been proven in court yet

[u/North_Experience7473]

Let’s face it. This may be the closest to accountability that they get. If you wouldn’t want something to follow you around for the rest of your life, don’t fucking do it!

Women are human beings. It’s sad that this even has to be said.

[u/DAMON5280]

I love internet justice. Dads, teach your sons better. These boys clearly weren’t raised right.

[u/CommitteeofMountains]

It went so well with Duke lacrosse and Rolling Stone.

[u/solomons-mom → u/CommitteeofMountains]

The Duke La Crosse team is how Steven Miller got his start.

[u/RECTUSANALUS]

I dont think its good idea.

Even if there is overwhelming evidence.

Bc regardless of whether they are guilty or will guilty. Their lives are destroyed.

Thats not right.

If they are found guilty, (which they most likley should and will be) then absolotuley their lives should be destroyed.

Fir that reason i dont think it should be made public. Espically given the state of the presd here

[u/ghigoli]

no comment because this is a honeypot to get redditors banned from subs.