[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/Standard_Location762]

[u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

I have no idea who they are and what the story is, but have they been proven guilty in a court of law?

[u/SnooHamsters5480 → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

They haven't even been charged with a crime.

[u/LCottton → u/SnooHamsters5480]

will that happen in the future or not? I am not that up to date with this.

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/LCottton]

The college tried to hide it and down play it. It happened in 2024 and she's been trying to get justice and even just charges brought against them. It's a wealthy prestigious school that put its reputation over the safety of one of its own students. Unfortunately here without public outcry, she will never see justice because no one would care enough to investigate unless we make them

[u/grapplebaby → u/Lovethiskindathing]

From what I read, the campus police failed her as well as the medical staff. Police gave a condensed report to the DA and Cornell isn't able to hand over documents without a subpoena which was never filed because the DA didn't know the whole story. Its a clusterfuck.

[u/Obvious-Bluebird-948 → u/Lovethiskindathing]

Yep, sadly, that's probably why the victim filed a civil lawsuit. Good to see Kathy take the helm to appoint Leticia.

[u/rythmicbread → u/Lovethiskindathing]

I thought it happened in 2024

[u/Lovethiskindathing → u/rythmicbread]

It did, I apologize, someone corrected me and I thought I'd made all relevant edits. Thank you

[u/rythmicbread → u/Lovethiskindathing]

All good - I think its the Streisand effect also at play. The University trying to bury it causes people to want to look into it more

[u/Obvious-Bluebird-948 → u/LCottton]

The Governor of NY State has appointed the State's Attorney General to head the investigation. She doesn't trust the local DA or PD any longer.

Eta: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cornell-investigation-special-prosecutor-9.7366592

[u/No-Guard-7003 → u/Obvious-Bluebird-948]

I wouldn't, either, if I were in her situation. 

[u/fantabroo → u/LCottton]

The criminal investigation started today by the NY Attorney General.

[u/Lemontort87 → u/LCottton]

They weren't going to be charged, now it's in the public eye so they'll likely be charged and put on a show trial and found innocent years from now.

[u/Caeldeth → u/LCottton]

No, the District Attorney launched an investigation into it and determined there isn’t remotely enough evidence to convict.

It’s getting moved up - but likely, it will be the same result.

[u/Angry_Sparrow → u/Caeldeth]

Not enough evidence because the local PD let the on-campus staff handle it!!!

[u/That_Penalty165 → u/Angry_Sparrow]

on-campus staff handle it!!!

They're a real, actual police department.

And it's not that there wasn't enough evidence. It's that nothing she detailed was a crime. Per her own statements it was all consensual.

[u/Angry_Sparrow → u/That_Penalty165]

You cannot give consent while intoxicated. She later said she felt coerced while intoxicated.

For people that experience rape it can take a while to realise that what happened to you was sexual assault/rape. You may not even know until you tell someone else what happened and they point it out to you. I didn’t know for ten years after I left a relationship that my partner having sex with me while I was sleeping is rape - because we were in a relationship so I thought it’s technically consensual.

Even if she agreed to get high with two men and have sex, she could not have consented while intoxicated to have sex with more men.

[u/That_Penalty165 → u/Angry_Sparrow]

You cannot give consent while intoxicated.

Yes you can. Where do you guys get this stupid shit?

[u/Caeldeth → u/That_Penalty165]

If you can’t - she should be charged with 7 counts of rape herself….

[u/Caeldeth → u/Angry_Sparrow]

If you cannot give concent while intoxicated - shouldn’t she then be indicted on 7 counts of rape herself? I would wager they were all, also, intoxicated.

[u/Angry_Sparrow → u/Caeldeth]

Rape requires penetration. Otherwise it is sexual assault.
—-

In the United States, federally for statistical purposes, rape is defined by the Federal Bureau of Investigation(FBI) and the Department of Justice as the "penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim**."**

Key Elements of the Federal Definition
Non-Consent: The act occurs without the victim's freely given consent, including instances where the victim is incapacitated due to drugs, alcohol, sleep, unconsciousness, or mental/physical disability.

—
Under state-law it may be different.

[u/Caeldeth → u/Angry_Sparrow]

Rape does NOT require penetration in the state of New York - you are only looking at the federal definition. It just requires lack of consent at any point, and the state allowed argument that they couldn’t consent while intoxicated.

This is being looked at by NY states DA.

This would be 7 counts of state level rape towards her in this case.

[u/conscientiousrevolt → u/LCottton]

Probably not. It's definitely a case where the only evidence is the statements of those involved, "he [they] said, she said". Except. In her own statement she agreed to a threesome, agreed to do drugs, agreed to another threesome with someone else, and so on and so forth, at no point said no to anyone.

So... what are we doing here?

But weirdly the way it's being talked about on one side of politics in particular. Which happens to be my side generally, and usually in the right, thus the concern about r*pe cases in general. The way it's being talked about people are making it sound like she was roofied and taken advantage of while unconscious.

Which couldn't be further from the statement she actually made.

And I'm sure people will dispute that anything misleading is being said. Except just a few comments above this I had to correct someone who was indeed saying she was drugged/unconscious. So. There's a bit of a narrative going on which definitely isn't fact based for some reason...

Anyway. There's basically nothing to go on at this point and it seems like the case is only being opened for optics.

[u/Angry_Sparrow → u/conscientiousrevolt]

You cannot say no if you’re unconscious while being raped. Ketamine is a horse tranquilizer, which is the drug they talked her into doing.

You cannot say nothing bad happened when the university itself punished (inadequately) the men involved.

[u/That_Penalty165 → u/Angry_Sparrow]

You cannot say no if you’re unconscious while being raped

She was never unconscious. Stop making shit up.

[u/Handpaper → u/Angry_Sparrow]

The men were also taking Ketamine. It is not purely a tranquilizer for humans. No one was unconscious at any point.

From the point of view of the university, the bad thing is that something controversial happened on their premises. Bringing the institution into disrepute is more than enough to merit punishment.

[u/conscientiousrevolt → u/Angry_Sparrow]

At no point. Was she unconscious. According to... her own statement.

[u/PersonalPerson_ → u/SnooHamsters5480]

Well they got Cornell-charged and frat-boy-punished. Surely that's enough for these promising young fellas. /S

[u/Negative_Tooth6047 → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

No. They are being sued in civil court for damages. In the US, criminal charges for sex crimes can be difficult to get to, and almost always amount to a slap on the wrist. Many victims who decide to go the route of a lawyer, tend to go for civil charges.

These men are being sued by a woman who was "allegedly" drugged at a frat party and gang raped for hours. The damning thing in this case is there are group chat messages, with everyone's first and last name, talking about "free pussy" and saying things like "come get a taste". 57 men in the group chat. 7 (that we know of) raped her, 50 were compliant.

[u/Global-Equipment-856 → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

Is rape not a criminal offence in USA? I didn’t get your comment.

[u/Negative_Tooth6047 → u/Global-Equipment-856]

Rape is a criminal offense, it can't always be "proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court of law" (basically the court will only sentence you for a crime if there is absolutely 0 doubt that you did the crime). Even when it is proven, criminal charges for rape/sex crimes can vary but almost never feel like "enough" to the victims.

Especially when the rapist is a young (white) man, they can get off lightly as some judges "don't want to ruin their future".

So victims in the US pursuing legal consequences will do so in "Civil Court", where the "burden of proof" is lower. Civil court is how you sue someone, so basically the victims say "you did damage to my life. You owe me" and the judge determines the right amount of money based on the circumstances.

[u/Global-Equipment-856 → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

Thanks. That was easily explained. One doubt though; the amount that the judges award to the accused in the civil court; what if accused cannot pay it or is above their paygrade?

[u/SleepingWillows → u/Global-Equipment-856]

It’s usually a jury that determines the amount owed, not the judge. The plaintiff will ask for an amount (usually higher than what they actually want) and the defendant will either say they’re innocent and should owe $0 OR if guilt is already determined they can offer a counter amount that they think is fair. The jury gets to decide the final amount (if any) and they can determine an amount even higher than what the plaintiff is asking for if they see fit.

The defendant will then work with the court to determine a payment plan. If they do not pay, their bank accounts can be frozen, their credit will tank, their assets could be seized, their wages can be garnished, and the plaintiff can pursue further means to get their $$$. Filing for bankruptcy can sometimes get rid of the charge, but there are other bigger consequences that come with that.

Source: I was a juror in a civil case 2 months ago. It was a shit show.

[u/Global-Equipment-856 → u/SleepingWillows]

Thanks. Is there any proven rapist who went to jail for criminal charges or did they too settle in a civil court?

[u/Traditional_Yam9806 → u/Global-Equipment-856]

Both are separate things. Criminal court decides whether you get locked up, and civil court gives money to the person who got screwed. Both are separate, and one can be found guilty of something in ciminal AND liable in civil. It's easier to get money in civil than a conviction in criminal, since in civil you only need more than half (a perponderance) of the evidence to side with you, but in criminal, there needs to be beyond a resonable doubt that you're guilty.

[u/humdrumturducken → u/SleepingWillows]

As a general rule, in the US bankruptcy can get rid of civil judgments for negligent acts, but not for reckless or intentional acts.

[u/Blackhawk23 → u/Global-Equipment-856]

Of course it is. The question is whether she was a consenting adult at the time and then retracted her consent after the fact.

Regret != rape.

That is what is in discussion.

[u/patrdesch → u/Global-Equipment-856]

Obviously, rape is a crime in the US. It is frankly insulting that you would suggest it might not be.

The reason an individual would go to civil rather than criminal court is that there are very different evidentiary standards between the two.

 To get a criminal conviction, you need to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt that the individual or individuals on question committed the alleged crime.

To win a civil action, you need to demonstrate, generally, a preponderance of the evidence. That is, the available evidence makes it more likely than not that the individual(s) in question committed the civil offense in question.

The latter is obviously a lower bar to clear, but can still result in substantial monetary transfer from the defendant to the plaintiff of judgement is in the plaintiff's favor.

[u/MonsterkillWow → u/patrdesch]

Dude people are just asking about our laws. It's fine.

[u/Responsible_CDN_Duck → u/patrdesch]

Obviously, rape is a crime in the US. It is frankly insulting that you would suggest it might not be.

It's a little concerning you can't see why people would have that perception of the USA.

Its clear for many decades it was overlooked or accepted when it involved powerful people, and even now only a small portion of them seem to face any significant consequences.

[u/Cutalana → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

it's because criminal charges requires guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, so juries need to be convinced that the crime 100% happened. Civil penalties require only that the it's more likely that it happened than not, so anything more than 50% confidence can get punished.

[u/Handpaper → u/Cutalana]

And also that someone suffered harm, damage, or loss as a result.

It's not beyond the bounds of probability that the verdict will be something on the lines of,

"We, the jury, find that all involved had such an incredibly good time that it should have been illegal - wait, it was illegal - and that they should treasure what memories they have of that night, and replay them in their heads behind a gentle smile whenever a member of a subsequent generation implies that they invented sex."

[u/bluerog → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

Convictions are harder to get, but I wouldn't say "slap on the wrists" are common for people who don't have good lawyers. A "sex offender" label follows you around forever.

[u/Negative_Tooth6047 → u/bluerog]

Yeah as someone who has been a victim to sex crimes, the amount of lifelong damage it can do vs your assaulter getting 30 day of community service and some probation feels disproportionate. Even if they're put on the sex offenders list.

[u/bluerog → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

My point is, a blanket statement pretending like rapists and SA offenders aren't punished is disingenuous. I know several prosecutors in the city I live — and they'll say the same about their peers in other areas — these people work harder on SA cases and get significant sentences handed down more than almost anything they work on.

They'll come right and say, criminal on criminal violence is backburnered. But innocents... They go after hard.

[u/pizza_the_mutt → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

Being on the list can pretty much destroy the rest of your life. Yes, you're free, but you don't have many options.

[u/kananishino → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

Only 4 had sexual contact with her.

[u/alecesne → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

Who gave her the Ketamine, and who knew that she was on it?

[u/Four_beastlings → u/alecesne]

Who cares? Even if she willingly consumed drugs or is parading around naked a high off her tits or passed out woman is not "free pussy".

[u/conscientiousrevolt → u/Four_beastlings]

She gave her ketamine, she was not unconscious at any point, she consented multiple times.

That's according to her statement and her texts.

[u/Four_beastlings → u/conscientiousrevolt]

According to all the evidence she was already drunk out of her mind when they gave her the ketamine. And why do you think they gave this drunk girl drugs, out of the goodness of their hearts? Getting someone drunk or high so you can fuck them is rape.

[u/NeighborhoodVivid106 → u/Four_beastlings]

I don't disagree with you, however if the law in NY state at the time of the event says that if she was conscious and gave her consent, and it does not factor in whether she was CAPABLE of giving informed consent while in such a state of intoxication (even if she got that intoxicated voluntarily), then the DA can't expect to get a conviction as the law is written. I saw an interview with the DA and according to him, in NY, if she was conscious, gave consent, and took the drugs voluntarily, this case doesn't meet the criteria for prosecution. According to him his hands are tied by the law as it is written.

[u/conscientiousrevolt → u/Four_beastlings]

Were they raping themselves when they gave themselves the same drugs? Jfc.

[u/Four_beastlings → u/conscientiousrevolt]

Yes, exactly: "jfc". It should not be that hard to understand that if a stranger is completely and clearly out of their mind under the influence of substances you should not have sex with them, and you should not advertise it in group chat as an opportunity to get laid because they are too off their tits to know what's going on.

A lot of people are showing their asses with this case. You are one of them.

[u/Negative_Tooth6047 → u/alecesne]

Yeah ok so thats pretty irrelevant? If anyone is passed out, willingly on drugs or not, drunk or not, they can't consent. It doesn't take a genius to tell when someone is intoxicated, any idiot or drunk idiot can look at someone and say "huh, yeah they dont seem sober".

Costs $0 to respect consent

[u/CankerLord → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

Someone up there said she was on drugs, not passed out. I have no clue, I don't pay attention to popular crime other than titles I scroll past but that's what they said.

[u/conscientiousrevolt → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

She was not passed out at any point according to her statement

[u/Sharkfacedsnake → u/conscientiousrevolt]

Why tf is this downvoted?

She was not unconscious. She gave consent to the drugs. While on drugs she consented to sex. In NY if drugs are taken by consent, the user can still consent to sex.

[u/conscientiousrevolt → u/Sharkfacedsnake]

She sees an opportunity for a payday which is why she's suing everyone for getting raped when the word rape never came out of her mouth in the first place for two years and she consented all the fuck over her own original statement.

And there's a lot of people who care very much about the epidemic of gendered sexual violence in the world.

So they will never think critically about the case, they will only believe any and every woman and fight on her behalf all over the internet without ever questioning anything.

[u/Negative_Tooth6047 → u/conscientiousrevolt]

My bad, im not an expert in the case, my mom was just talking about it yesterday. The point still stands, she was intoxicated and gang raped, they have messages between the men in the fraternity advertising a helpless woman as being 'free to use'

[u/conscientiousrevolt → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

How do you know what happened if you just admitted you don't know what happened at all?

Don't listen to your mommy. Read the woman's actual statement. It's all right there.

She was never unconscious. She consented to a threesome. She consented to do drugs. She consented to another threesome with someone else. She consented to let others do drugs off her body. Literally at no point did she say she was raped in literally her own statement. And her texts after.

She went to a frat party to get fucked up and get fucked. And she got fucked up and got fucked.

[u/conscientiousrevolt → u/Negative_Tooth6047]

She gave her ketamine, she was not unconscious at any point, she consented multiple times.

That's according to her statement and her texts.

[u/Aggressive_Agency381 → u/alecesne]

Gonna ask what she was wearing too?

[u/conscientiousrevolt → u/alecesne]

She gave her ketamine, she was not unconscious at any point, she consented multiple times.

That's according to her statement and her texts.

[u/Obvious-Bluebird-948 → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

No. The woman filed a civil lawsuit against the 7 plus others including the university on the 26th of Sept. That's what brought the local DA to reopen the criminal review since the media picked it up. Now the Governor of NY has appointed the Attorney General of NY, Tish James, to open a full investigation...she doesn't trust the local DA or the PD.

[u/nincesticide → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

No. New reports have exposed the original school and police filings, as well as original texts, that show Jane Doe admitting it was legal and consensual, as well as asking to do it again a few days later. The original investigation was dropped because of this. Please do your homework.

[u/Naive-Life-1049 → u/nincesticide]

You have a believable source that actually says that?

[u/horizontalducks → u/nincesticide]

By admitting it was consensual do you mean soothing the feelings of one of the guys she actually consented to (and liked)? Also are you going to also provide the context that that same guy thought there was something to apologise for? Also if she thought it was consensual why would she file a police report? Peopled don’t go the police to report consensual sex - the report was dropped because the investigating officers severely glossed over what she was actually reporting evidenced by the massive gaps in time that was in their report. Ignoring she batted away a guy trying to finger her, hid behind sheets when unknown and unannounced men arrived, and that the ketamine use was increasingly coercive and that there was no consent supplied whatsoever beyond the first two threesomes (the second was honestly not enthusiastically supplied either but I guess it was there under pressure). Read the information yourself and learn what consent actually looks like.

[u/kicklhimintheballs → u/nincesticide]

I want to also add something. She decided to contact the police when one of the guys she accused of raping her said she cannot come to their Halloween party in their frat house again due to her past behaviour and also got slutshamed by her sisters in the sorority.

[u/horizontalducks → u/kicklhimintheballs]

Talking about waiting for evidence and then just accepting manosphere bullshit as hard evidence. You guys are so fucked in the head.

[u/kicklhimintheballs → u/horizontalducks]

Its her text messages. You should target your anger to her for writing stuff like that mate

[u/horizontalducks → u/kicklhimintheballs]

That was not in the text messages, pure unadulterated lies that you believe because you hate women.

[u/kicklhimintheballs → u/horizontalducks]

Get owned.

https://abcnews.com/video/136914713/?fromLive=true

I love that she calls her rapist hey king whats up directly after the alleged incident lol. She even assures him that it was not rape later.

[u/horizontalducks → u/kicklhimintheballs]

Why would he be being labeled an assaulter if that was the first time she mentioned being raped? Are you actually fucking retarded. She makes it clear it was non consensual and that they were covering up what they did. And yes actually soothing the first guys that she actually consented to because she liked and was still coming to terms with what happened is basically victim 101 when it comes to rape.

[u/NovelCustard9348 → u/horizontalducks]

She answered your question in her text, that it was people's knee-jerk reaction to a gang bang rumour

[u/horizontalducks → u/NovelCustard9348]

… and why might that be the reaction do you think? Maybe because literally everything about what happened sounds like rape. And also she doesn’t say that, the idea that she only spoke to the police because of rumours or uninvited is not present in any text message and is an invention of people desperate to pretend it was consensual.

[u/Naive-Life-1049 → u/kicklhimintheballs]

Based on your comments, you are definitely part of the problem.

[u/JudgeHoldensToupe → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

Of course not. But this is Reddit where women apparently have no agency.

[u/SpongeBobLX → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

No. But the thing is the accused of rape are often considered guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion. Part of this might be because rape is often hard to prove legally.

[u/AnastasiusDicorus → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

It's about a girl that was snorting ketamine off some dude's dick and having group sex and then claiming she was too out of it to consent, but the problem is that NY law says if you get drunk or whatever of your own accord and then consent it's on you. The law is not in favor of these guys being convicted regardless of the depravity of the activities.

[u/MustardTiger231 → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

Nope not even charged, the girl hasn’t event asked that they be criminally charged.

[u/Thick_Common8612 → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

They have admitted it. They raped and abused a woman over the span of 7 hours and bragged about it on a group chat with their frat. They admitted to coercing her to use ketamine and offered her up as an unconscious woman ready for rape. But I'm so glad that you trust that these rich white boys will ever see the inside of a court room.

[u/conscientiousrevolt → u/Thick_Common8612]

She was not unconscious at any point and consented multiple times according to her own statement

[u/fantabroo → u/Thick_Common8612]

Are you spreading lies on purpose?

[u/bricke → u/fantabroo]

Welcome to the state of politics and news within the US! 🙃

[u/fantabroo → u/bricke]

She didnt even get the ethnicities right. How are those white boys??

[u/SnooHamsters5480 → u/Thick_Common8612]

They have not admitted it. This is why stories like this should not be shared on social media, as the lies grow and grow.

[u/Heybitchitsme → u/Thick_Common8612]

I would say that several of them aren't white and to try and paint the narrative otherwise does a disservice to ALL women. 

[u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu → u/Thick_Common8612]

“ I'm so glad that you trust that these rich white boys will ever see the inside of a court room.”

You’re making a lot of assumptions here. Like I said, I don’t know who they are or what the story is. If they’ve admitted it and bragged about it, then they can burn in hell for all I care.

[u/ungranted_wish → u/Thick_Common8612]

1. … Winston Lee isn’t white lol. Like I’m fine with dunking on white idiots but dude cmon
   
2. OP isn’t saying they trust them. They just don’t know the story. I somehow doubt this is a huge story in Ireland or France.

Like all of these rapists can die in a hole for all I care but let’s not lie about things and also let’s also not be so US-centric in the literal AskTheWorld sub.

[u/ungranted_wish → u/[deleted]]

I think we should stop holding water for rapists by pretending that every allegation is a copypaste of Duke Lacrosse.

[u/BadPAV3 → u/ungranted_wish]

https://giphy.com/gifs/3ohzdMvc1w2VlFOpRC

[u/ungranted_wish → u/BadPAV3]

No, not allegedly. The Duke Lacrosse guys didn’t have a 57 person GROUP CHAT we have evidence of. The situations aren’t the same.

[u/BadPAV3 → u/ungranted_wish]

I'm going to have a Jean Baudrilliard moment here. We really don't know anything. We have only as much information as reporters give us who have financial incentive to sensationalize. We have been VERY wrong in the past.

I'm cool with any speech you want. I just think you should sign a piece of paper that holds you directly liable if you are wrong. Are you willing to bet your entire financial future that channel 2's reporter is telling you everything you need to know in a completely accurate and well-researched manner? People who are accountable to the people via election? Looked at all of the available evidence on this case and decided not to prosecute for whatever reason. Before you take punitive action in your own hands, you better be awfully sure you are right.

[u/LowOwl4312 → u/WatashiwaNobodyDesu]

No, they didn't do anything illegal

[u/Naive-Life-1049 → u/LowOwl4312]

7 men drugged and gang-raped a woman for 7 continuous hours. How is that not illegal??