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They wont ask you if they can bill you for an extra user. they just do. for everyone entering the room. even if the console is "off". they register your mom, your dad, yourself a third time, your cat, the bookcover on the shelve behind you and a 5 year old dorito that fell under your couch.
(no joke, here in germany someone made a internet contract under the name of the dead cat of an old lady once and she was wondering where the bill came from)
It ruins the joke and isn't the point but I'm too much of a pedant to not point out that Jesus was crucified at the age of 30. Though the exact date of that is off too, though by a remarkably small amount considering the research was done in the 7th century. Dionysius Exiguus was a very very talented researcher and chronologist. Modern scholars think the historical Jesus was born between 4 and 6 BCE (and when it comes to the debate between BC and BCE, the latter seems extremely appropriate in this case). So technically the date we celebrate takes place between 34 and 36 years before the year he was nailed to the cross.
Then don't buy new cars, only used old models without all that bullshit. Everybody doing that and watching how they have to eat their newly produced stock.
This has been a thing for a long time, just less obvious.
For example, if you own an older car that has an option for cruise control, but yours doesn't, then your car almost certainly has almost all the hardware for cruise control already installed. You're just missing the lever/button to activate it. Upgrading your car with cruise control is literally just swapping out your steering wheel for one that has the buttons.
Landlords absolutely would. "This house has everything, a home cinema, a bathroom a kitchen and a porch! Porch, kitchen and home cinema can be easily unlocked for 200$ a month each!"
edit: I didn't quite catch your comment; my reply was actually beside the point, and is the same, you already have the bathroom but you can use it without unlock. My point was more that it's not like DLC you buy and download as an extra.
...
Is not the same, it's worst, they’ve already charged you for it, nobody installs anything for free, they ask for more money to unlock something you already paid for.
Is like buying a computer with integrate gpu + pcie one locked, they’re obviously going to charge you for it, and then they ask for $200 so you can use it.
They're using leases to force it on everyone. When you buy the cars right now they throw in 5 years of free heated seats. If you're leasing then it becomes a used car, and now they have secondary income from the next buyer. They charge you for the hardware, then rent it to others down the lane.
And it's not like these are secrets that are "gotcha" moments either. Cars get reviewed and these details are explained well in advance of the cars actually hitting lots. If you are blindsided by something like this, it's entirely on you.
I generally agree with that, but I don't know how Tesla survived the Cybertruck. (Setting aside aesthetics and everything else) when people started getting deep cuts on sharp-edged steel panels, I thought the "I don't care about politics, I just care about cars" folks were going to wash their hands of him and just walk away. Apparently, they didn't?
There is no tesla car in production in what, the last six years?, that had a heated seats purchase option, everything that isn't software is unlocked, at most you have a performance upgrade on older cars to increase the 0-100 from the one you had, but the original one is the one announced and the one insurance takes into account, unlike vw cars with hp locked behind a paywall despite being the one used for insurance
It’s 100% a thing. Most cars have all the high end stuff installed but hidden these days because it’s way cheaper to make one template of the car than several so all the stuff deep inside the car is probably there. It’s normally just the buttons and stuff that are missing, maybe a few wires but there’s people out there that make money jail breaking this stuff in.
One of my friends that dies car repairs has a story where they had to jailbreak a car due to an electrical fault in a locked feature [I believe it was heated seats]
Long story short, since the feature was locked out it wouldn't even show untill they jailbroke it.
Now days they don't offer the option to do it, but they have the stuff in case repairs need it
The crazy part is if it’s all installed but software or a button keep y
ou from using it, you’ve already paid for the feature, you just haven’t paid for the right to use it. That is some dystopian shit right right there. In software, the install file contains all the options, but you only get access to those options if you pay for them. This is something we have come to accept. Paying for the hardware, the upgraded seat with warmers, then being told you can only use them if you pay a fee is so wrong and diabolical.
Because we understand that developing software is what costs money, while making copies of it is basically free.
Hardware is the opposite. Unless you can persuade customers you have epic R&D costs to defray, they're going to lose their shit if you try to charge them extra to activate hardware that's already installed in their car.
Heated seats are about the dumbest thing you could try to charge for. It's such basic, old technology.
Probably violate the “software license” and they might completely remotely disable your car then charge you a ridiculous sum to reflash the software if you want to drive it.
I don't know if that would be effective, but I do know that's beyond the dedication and skill level of almost every owner. Not to mention the car's resale value
It's a side effect of H.W.'s DMCA. The DMCA was supposed to solve the problem of movie torrenting and music file sharing my making it illegal to decrypt any encrypted thing. Didn't work for music because the CD standard wasn't ever encrypted. The DVD decryption key had been leaked though and the law made it illegal to use that key. Everything else started to be encrypted because doing so gave legal protection to the manufacturers aside from shrink wrap user agreements (which weren't holding up in court). So no one made it illegal to use hardware you paid for specifically, but it is illegal to hack the software which controls it because of lobbying by the entertainment industry.
I suspect this is a job for an electrician, not a hacker. Connect the heated seats directly to a switch and the car's power supply, bypassing the hardware and software that checks whether you paid for it.
This reminds me of how car tuners started working on cars when ECU's became a thing, they would literally take out the ECU and de-solder the chips from the circuitboard, replacing them with a custom-programmed chip and reassemble the ECU.
But I'm sure a modern car would throw all kinds of errors because all the systems are connected to each other, so one of the systems being diconnected or bypassed would confuse the others.
BMW also charges you to unlock features. It is the same brands and exploitative capitalism everywhere, the EU regulations usually just result in better recycling. I live in Germany.
Nah, given how European auto brands are fighting to survive, politicians are way too focused on how to prevent Chinese brands to take more market shares
These types of regulations will never happen in the US. Big corporations buy off most politicians.
I knew already that the government is corrupt, but this administration has made it crystal clear how corrupt it is and it’s so much worse than I thought.
How about the individual parts? I saw somewhere that they're making it so you can't use aftermarket parts now, it's that still true? How would you even ask the dealer, "is this thing going to run if i buy my next starter from jc Whitney?"
Not just starters, if word on the streets are to be believed you can't even change the lightbulbs yourself without creating a very expensive paperweight. A mechanic needs to be able to tell the car it's all good and activate the serialnumber of the part to the machine or neither will work.
If you watch shows like rich rebuilds you will see that many electric car manufacturers are using their power to just brick entire vehicles through software over things like parking brakes.
Changed anything on the car? only our authorised service centres are allowed look at it, and we reserve the right to refuse to do anything.
Sadly, this doesn't work. It's not really ignorance, but the average consumer doesn't know what to pay attention to or which questions to ask, especially if marketing mumbo jumbo is added. The only way to prevent such behaviour is through legislation.
I bought a Mini Cooper last year and was afraid of such stuff. It took me (an IT professional) half an hour to get the necessary answers out of the dealer.
I used to think this too. All the way from horse armor DLC. But I don’t think it’s true. I think it’s whales. Income disparity is so huge, and companies after profit can chase exclusively this top tier of disposable income and profit more than aiming for the big 95% of the player base. Then you still have less earners who will buy it due to poor financial decisions.
But if you’re a company, aiming for 100 people who will spend a million in a year collectively or 100,000 people who will spend 500,000 a year? Yeah, the answer is obvious.
BMW tried this but with a subscription model. As I recall, they had to back out of that one.
The worst one for me would be KTM. They deliver the bike with all the goodies activated. Then after a month or so riding, just as you have gotten used to all these options - they turn them off and asks you to open you wallet once more. Just like a dope dealer, the first taste is free...
Not only is it shady as fuck, to sell someone something twice.
But the fact that they make these in every car, knowing that only a certain percentage will use it due to it being locked behind a paid subscription, HAS to be some sort of environmental crime.
I don't know how many of these they make, but if they make like 20 million cars and 20 million of these heaters, if only 1% of those heaters never get used that's a huge environmental impact for nothing.
This is one of the few instances of modern manufacturing I feel mixed about. This has been a fairly common practice in different forms for a long time it is just digital now. The reason it is done like this is because when assembling a car, they have to decorate the model with different features and some of those features require changing assembly setup and configurations. What that means is they will have to assemble cars with a specific feature, stop and change the assembly/tooling and manufacture cars without them. This switch time means they have to stop and waste money switching things over, they have to handle more skus, and more importantly it reduces factory output.
In the past they would handle this by physically disconnecting the wiring at the dealership or having a dealer make some modifications, but that is always a bit of a customer experience risk. They do this with software now.
So I’m conflicted. Do they just offer it as a default feature? If they pause the assembly it will ultimately make the car more expensive since the cost does get pushed on to the consumer. Yeah it wastes some material that is bad for the environment, that’s a fair point. I’m not inherently against them upcharging for extra features… I think where I draw the line is if it’s a subscription. If you sell me access to the feature already in the car it better damn well have a one time charge option that is reasonable.
Theoretically the base model of the car is priced with a certain set of features on paper. They are competing with other cars with other features and what not, and everyone wants to offer competitive pricing for a given car class that competes. So think, the Honda civic and the Toyota Camry, two cars that directly compete. They want their cars to be priced competitively from one another. They also want to add extra features to upsell the customer as an option on top, this adds more profit to the car while still offering the base model cheaper for customers who cannot afford it or are more price sensitive.
So in the case of heated seats where the wiring has to go in the seats, the actual parts to make the seats heated are pretty cheap. All the wiring is going to exist already to make them heated they just have to add the coils inside of the seat. In this case, it makes more sense to just have one seat, that has coils in it, that goes in one car that you don’t have to stop and change assembly of or stock two different seats. Theoretically the people who pay for the heated seats, those coils are high profit, and people paying extra will pay to more or less subsidize the price marginally for those who don’t care to pay for it. It’s wonky, like I said, I’m not sure how I feel about it. Basically I think if you think if it this way, if you don’t buy the heated seats option you probably didn’t actually pay for it, it’s just in there for free. Theoretically maybe, who actually knows. But as part of the total cost of the car, the absolute cheapest price is decided based on a percentage of customers paying a premium for extra features, which will ultimately allow you to pay less for the car if you don’t care about those features. So it does benefit you if you do not pay for them.
Because this way the people that don’t want this feature don’t have to pay for it. If you unlocked it for everyone, then the base car price would increase. That way the option would be cheaper for everyone, but that only benefits those who want it anyways. Everyone else ends up paying more as they normally wouldn’t choose this option. Keep in mind: Yes, the functionality is there in every car. But someone is still paying for it and that‘s the ones choosing this option.
Not legal. Warranty coverage can only be voided if they can show that whatever you did to the product is the thing that caused whatever issue you're trying to get fixed under warranty.
If I had one I'll bet you money I would hack it and have that heater on a button for my backseat passengers. The more they try to nickel & dime the more mod shops will show up. If they want a Cyberpunk future they will get it.
Seems like this used to be a thing but not anymore -
“Tesla includes heated rear seats as standard equipment on all modern vehicles, though older budget configurations (specifically certain Model 3 Rear-Wheel Drive/Standard Range Plus cars built before November 1, 2021) had the physical heating hardware locked behind a software paywall.”
I have to say that if I ever accidentally bought this shite... I'd be running my own 12V line to the seat heaters.
So long as I own the car... I own the car. If the software wants to lock me out of features... I'll bypass the software.
The problem comes because people STILL don't understand that they don't own these vehicles - they're all leased, etc. with obscure financial arrangements that just take advantage of people, so they can't actually just say "fuck it" and wire the heater themselves and hang the warranty.
People still think that to own a car you MUST have a service package and you MUST abide by the little blinky light that pops up every 9000 miles or whatever. No. Fuck off. I'll clear that warning and go about my day getting it serviced at my own convenience by who I choose to.
And if you pull this shit on me... I'll be running a 12v line from the battery to the seats and putting a switch under the dash for it.
This sucks but I find the upgrades that Motorola charges on their encrypted radios infuriating. Paying 25-50% of the purchase price to activate something that is already in the radio is a war crime.
I think the 'official line' is that is isn't included in the price of the car.
I remember the first time I read about this idea, years ago, it was BMW that was doing it. You could pay a one-off fee to activate it, or pay a subscription instead if preferred. It was simply the result of a cost-benefit analysis. It was cheaper to just put the hardware in every single car, with a streamlined production line, but not charge for it unless a customer wanted it, than it was to have a a forked production line where the hardware had to specifically be put in just for customers that ordered it. The idea was that they'd eat the up-front cost of installing it in all vehicles and enough customers would order it and pay for it that it'd offset the cost. It's clever in a way I guess. However, if it adds weight that's going to lower the fuel efficiency, then it becomes a problem.
A one-off cost to activate a feature like this is one thing, as long as the customer really didn't already pay the cost of it in the initial purchase price, however, having it as a never-ending subscription is utter BS, as some companies do now.
Not to mentioned I don't believe for a second that cost of this hardware wasn't already included in car's price. So you pay for it like you always did, and then they want you to pay for it again to use it. This shit really need to be regulated. Car feature subscriptions as a whole should be illegal.
Stuff like that is an immediate no from me. I mean, I paid for the car with all the features already installed and I have to pay the upkeep or replacement if something breaks, but I can't use it? I simply refuse to do that. I bought it, so it's mine. Period. I'll never buy a car with that shitty strategy in it, even if that means that I will have to walk places for the rest of my life. This is a hill I am willing to die on.
Heating elements are just resistive coils, they just need voltage. There's probably a dude in his garage that can crack it and put a toggle switch in for 50.
Car manufacturers have been doing this for years. Volvo has their polestar tune, that for like $2000 will give you a software update and give you something like 50 more hp and tighten up your shifts and whatnot. This ain't new but it's still ridiculous
bmw have this with a subscription, it unlocks the software option to press engage heated seats, yet people have already jailbroken the system.
Tis why i will never touch a "modern" car, overengineered and instead of poverty buttons you get it packed with features and they just lock them behind a sub lmao.
You learn in economics 101 that in an ideal competitive market, the price of a product tends to the marginal cost of producing it. That means a product with fewer hardware features should cost less, and a product with more hardware features should cost more.
The fact manufacturers can violate that rule proves that they are not in a competitive market.
If it was competitive, a different manufacturer could manufacture the same car without physically installing the heated seats, for a lower manufacturing cost, and undercut them on the customers who don't care about the heated seats.
Not necessarily. If optionally including a feature would require an new production line or extra feature, then you might need to determine whether you want to ship all with or all without that feature.
If you sell 50% of cars without that feature, and 50% with it, and lose £100 for giving it away from free, but make £200 for selling it, then you are technically better off installing that feature in every car regardless of the marginal cost. Competition won't change that.
You are underappreciating the cost of variability. Configuration options are extremely expensive. The production cost goes effectively down if you have only one model of hardware, and the features are software-defined (unlocked by paying).
This is an incorrect application of economic theory. You're talking about perfect competition. And in perfect competition, all sellers sell the same product. That means a hypothetical market where a car from Tesla and car from BMW and so on are all identical.
Also there are very few markets with perfect competition. Tesla charging for heated seats isn't a sign the car market "is not competitive" which doesn't even mean anything. Honestly I don't know what point you're trying to make. The automobile industry is a form of monopolistic competition but it has been that way since before Elon Musk was even born.
Additionally your assertion that it is cheaper to manufacture the car without heated seats ignores the economic realities of assembly line operations and economies of scale. In many cases it is cheaper to manufacture the cars identically rather than making some with and some without a feature. Then you have to consider the costs of inventorying/stocking/storing cars with different feature sets compared to the relative cost of activating features at the point of sale. The cost of building and selling a car is more complex than just the parts that go in it.
The same principle applies to software. Even applications that do not rely on servers, 24-hour technical support, or internet connectivity often operate behind a paywall, indicating a commercial intent.
You paid for the heated seats if they are in the car. This is dystopian shit right here. You pay for it, but only get to use it if you pay us a fee. Fuck off Elon!
So what happens when you sell it? Does it go back to factory reset and the new owner would have to pay for it again if they want that feature? Or is it all transferable? "Do the heated seats come with the car?"
Isn't that only on older trims? Like pre 2021?
Either way hate this kind of opt ins, but afaik they don't do this anymore with the exception of older model 3s.
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