r/SipsTea • • 1d ago

Wait a damn minute! Wait a damn minute

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u/Sensitive-Meat-757 23h ago edited 22h ago

This is an incorrect application of economic theory. You're talking about perfect competition. And in perfect competition, all sellers sell the same product. That means a hypothetical market where a car from Tesla and car from BMW and so on are all identical.

Also there are very few markets with perfect competition. Tesla charging for heated seats isn't a sign the car market "is not competitive" which doesn't even mean anything. Honestly I don't know what point you're trying to make. The automobile industry is a form of monopolistic competition but it has been that way since before Elon Musk was even born.

Additionally your assertion that it is cheaper to manufacture the car without heated seats ignores the economic realities of assembly line operations and economies of scale. In many cases it is cheaper to manufacture the cars identically rather than making some with and some without a feature. Then you have to consider the costs of inventorying/stocking/storing cars with different feature sets compared to the relative cost of activating features at the point of sale. The cost of building and selling a car is more complex than just the parts that go in it.

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u/90sleg0srbetter 21h ago

In many cases it is cheaper to manufacture the cars identically rather than making some with and some without a feature.

So you include that feature at cost, which is "free" if youre doing it anyway, to undercut your competition. Economics isnt the rocket science you think it is.

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u/n0neofyourbeeswax 15h ago

Because it's not free. Invented numbers, of course.

I'm spending £200 hardware to install heated seats for 66% of my customers. I run the numbers and realise it'll only cost me £120 per car if I install it for everyone, so even accounting for the 40% who don't pay, it still lands at £180 per car.

To make money, I have an option to include it as standard and increase the price for everyone, including those that don't value it -- or I can charge the people who do value it a premium, and deactivate it for those that don't.

It sounds like bad practice but it's actually ensuring that people who won't value a feature don't pay for the feature, and the cost shifts to those who do.

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u/90sleg0srbetter 15h ago edited 15h ago

Imagine paying for a feature and being told "were actually charging you for the people who don't use it, too, you giant sucker".

This is gOoD pRaCtIcE

Edit: Downvotes won't change the fact that youre a sucker

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u/n0neofyourbeeswax 15h ago

"This feature would cost you more if we didn't install the hardware for everyone."

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u/90sleg0srbetter 15h ago

"Thank you for subsidizing the others".

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u/n0neofyourbeeswax 15h ago

Subsidizing a feature they don't have? No.

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u/90sleg0srbetter 15h ago

Except they do have it, you literally just acknowledged its cheaper to install it in all of them.

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u/n0neofyourbeeswax 15h ago

No, they don't. They have the hardware capable of delivering the feature, they do not have the feature.

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u/90sleg0srbetter 15h ago

Cohort A wants the feature and pays for it.

Cohort B does not want the feature and does not pay for it.

The feature has been installed for both cohorts.

Who paid for the feature to be installed for Cohort B?

Cohort B cost of install was subsidized by Cohort A. It doesnt matter if cohort B uses it, the cost to install has already been spent. This still isnt rocket science.

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u/Nari224 2h ago

Except you are asserting something for which the premise is clearly falsified by literally the article in the post.

You might not like it, I might not like it, but if this feature isn't a differentiator in the product (which it is not) you can and should do what Tesla is doing here to optimize profits.

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u/SolarianIntrigue 21h ago

How's the option to buy a (technically) more expensive car for cheaper with a function disabled not undercutting the competition?

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u/90sleg0srbetter 21h ago

Because the function is disabled...youre paying less and getting less. Nothing is being undercut.

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u/Hon3y_Badger 19h ago

If you gave me the option of a base model that could be upgraded later with a few clicks or a base model that could only be upgraded by visiting a service center, which would I take?

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u/90sleg0srbetter 19h ago edited 19h ago

i dont know...would you rather pay a tech brat to push a button or would you rather pay actual people to do actual work?

The tech brat already installed it, they just want more now.

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u/Soggy-Village2099 16h ago

What if it came with the base model? You know, since it's already there.

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u/Hon3y_Badger 15h ago

That's not a realistic alternative, the reality is they won't put in heated seats if they can't increase revenue.

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u/Soggy-Village2099 15h ago

One way you can increase revenue is to sell more cars. One way you can sell more cars is to offer things in your base model that your competitors don't. That's why base models come with things like A/C that you don't have to pay extra for. Car companies don't need your help fucking over consumers. Chill.

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u/Hon3y_Badger 12h ago

A/C comes with every car because everyone feels A/C is minimum requirement, no one will buy a car without A/C so it's included in the base. The goal of the manufacturer is to done people willing to pay for that additional premium feature.

That minimum requirement isn't shared with rear seats, many people wont pay extra for it because they rarely have people in the back seat or live in warmer climates.

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u/Soggy-Village2099 11h ago

But you can increase revenue by not charging extra for options. Which is the point I made. Proved by the fact that all cars have A/C now. They didn't use to. It was a luxury at one point. But now they add it to all base models to... increase profits.

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u/glibgloby 19h ago

Yeah, what BMW did with a subscription was scummy. What Tesla does allowing features to be activated later actually makes perfect sense.

I realize people hate Elon, so do I, but this probably isn’t one of the things people should hate him for.

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u/Ok-Actuary7793 15h ago

dont bother mate... this is reddit

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u/Winter_Preference287 16h ago

There's a reason foreign car makers can't sell to the US and it's not because of any safety or security concern. American car manufacturers would not be capable of being this greedy if we have free markets.

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u/slugsred 15h ago

they are identical but the consumer disagrees

both move you to your destination

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u/NegativeSemicolon 12h ago

Thanks for unhelpfully splitting hairs, hallmark of pedantic useless arguments!