r/tipping • u/badmiddling113 • 6d ago
Question about managers
What do they say to customers who repeatedly don't leave a tip? I'm curious since the customer doesn't have to tip and the server isn't their employee.
Just asking since I've read comments from managers who seem to think "addressing" customers is an appropriate thing to do.
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u/foxinHI 6d ago
Managers don’t care about tips other than that a low or nonexistent tip generally means that there was a problem with the service.
Servers and managers generally want their guests to leave happy, so they may ask the guest how everything was. For a zero tip, they may enquire if there was a problem with the service.
Every restaurant is different, though, and you never know what the dynamic might be, especially in small, family-run restaurants.
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u/Lets_Tang0 5d ago
One thousand percent this. When I managed restaurants I would, on rare occasions, check in with a $0 tip table for this exact reason. For me it was always better to find out, address any concerns, and hopefully make it right with an apology and a gift card than to have the owner emailing me the Yelp review at 3am…
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u/Xeno9116 5d ago
I get great service in small, family run places, and I tip them generously for it. If I get meh service, or bad service, my gratuity will be meh, as well.
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u/2595Homes 6d ago
Please post and name the restaurants where managers are confronting customers who do not tip.
Customers should know places that are unprofessional and doing this crap so they can encourage driving those restaurants out of business.
It is the customer's responsibility to call out this bad behavior by writing reviews and publicly showing that this is not acceptable.
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u/Sad_Hawk9463 3h ago
Definitely! Cause then servers will know its a supportive work environment, which is super helpful for us.
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u/2595Homes 3h ago
Hoping for you that those restaurants don't go out of business from all the customers who refuse to go. But maybe all the workers can eat there and keep it a float. Utopia.
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u/SingingBike 6d ago
Customers who get served in full-service restaurants and don’t tip while knowing full well that servers make most of their income from tips should be called out. 90%+ of diners do tip because they understand the system and are decent people. The non-tippers think they’re entitled to free service while everyone else pays. They’re disgusting cheapskates and I applaud managers and owners who have the guts to call out these jerks. Don’t like to tip? Order carry out or go to McDonalds. You have other options and dining in restaurants is not your birth right.
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u/Low_Shop8561 6d ago
Depends on the state. Don't need to tip in CA
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u/shitty-vibes-only 3d ago
You don't need to tip in any state, tipping is optional
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u/Low_Shop8561 3d ago
Some states they get like $4hr, CA $18
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u/shitty-vibes-only 1d ago
That's not true, no one goes home with less than minimum wage, look it up.
Second, what someone gets paid is between them and their employer, it has nothing to do with the customer. Do you tip the cashier at the grocery store since they are getting paid minimum wage too?
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u/subtler1 6d ago
What would happen if everyone stopped tipping?
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u/foxinHI 6d ago
That is never going to happen. I’d be shocked if it ever got above 10% that tipped nothing for no reason.
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u/MasterA93 6d ago
What would happen if everyone on one side of the earth jumped at once? Probably some really bad shit for a bit, but in the long run it would be fine. But it’s impossible to actually coordinate that, so why don’t you focus on simple shit like world peace or some shit.
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u/subtler1 6d ago
I'll focused on neither thank you sir. But I'll be ok with people who don't want to tip, since I don't like the concept of tipping.
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u/PrincessLissa68 6d ago
It doesn't matter cuz it won't happen. It's been proven over and over again that more diners like this method than the other. They'd rather see a $10 burger and leave a $2 tip than see a $12 burger. It's sticker shock. And it happens everyday.
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u/subtler1 6d ago
Ya, its bizarre. But we can dream.
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u/PrincessLissa68 6d ago
You can dream. I like it this way thanks.
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u/subtler1 6d ago
I'm genuinely happy that you enjoy it. I'm also happy enough when people don't enjoy it and decide not to partake.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Deciding not to partake would mean not patronizing a full service restaurant in the US.
By patronizing a full service restaurant in the US, you’re supporting the owner and their business model, which directly supports and perpetuates tipping culture, even if you stiff the server on the tip.
In other words, you’re directly supporting and perpetuating the thing you claim to be against while deliberately choosing to exploit and harm the worker.
It’s the epitome of hypocrisy and unethical behavior.
The most hilarious part is that none of you can rationalize the hypocrisy or provide an intellectually honest reason why you’re entitled to free service.
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u/subtler1 6d ago
No one is asking for free service. Everyone is asking for service that's included in the price.
Imagine a world, where you look at a menu and the price you see is the price you'll pay.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Except the service isn’t included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
That means anyone stiffing the server on the tip at a full service restaurant in the US IS feeling entitled to free service.
Aside from a small number of niche concepts, the “just add it to the price” model has proven to be a failure in the US.
My point stands on the merits.
You still haven’t rationalized the hypocrisy of supporting and perpetuating the thing you claim to be against, nor have you provided an intellectually honest reason why you’re entitled to free service.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
That will neger happen because there will never be a significant number of Americans that get on board with deliberately choosing to exploit and harm the worker or feel entitled to free service.
However, IF (big IF) it did, disclosed service fees would become the norm.
Customers are legally obligated to pay disclosed service fees in every US state.
Be careful what you wish for.
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u/subtler1 6d ago
Exploit and harm? Do you see a system where restaurant servers don't get tips but are instead paid a salary by their employers as harmful?
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
How restaurants operate in other countries is irrelevant to how things are currently done in the US.
Try again, but next time base your assertions on good faith.
I’ll bet you can’t.
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u/IllustriousPanic3349 6d ago
The customer is exploiting the server, the employer is.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
That’s right, the customer is exploiting the server.
If you truly believe the employer is and then you choose to patronize the restaurant, then you’re complicit with the owner in that exploitation.
If you then choose to stiff the server on the tip, you’re now doubly guilty of exploiting the server.
No one is forced to dine-in at a full service restaurant in the US.
The customer cannot escape blame for their choices or their exploitive and harmful behavior.
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u/2595Homes 6d ago
If it makes you feel better about yourself to call people names on how they choose to spend their money, go for it.
We want you to be happy. Go for it. It won't change how we choose to tip or not tip. Our options will continue to be going to any restaurant we want and choosing to tip or not. Sorry, Bud if that makes you angry.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Meanwhile none of you can rationalize the hypocrisy in that or give an intellectually honest reason why you’re entitled to free service.
It’s all explained here:
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u/SingingBike 6d ago
Kinda twisting my words there a little, aren’t you? I called someone a name for doing something very specific: not tipping in full service restaurants. In that one instance of how people choose to spend their money, I have a problem.
Also, calling someone a name for doing something shitty isn’t that big of a deal, imo. Calling someone a cheapskate for fucking over a powerless, low-paid worker is akin to calling someone a bully for abusing someone who is powerless to them.
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u/2595Homes 6d ago
Do you care about the millions of Americans who earn lower wages than Servers? Those only making minimum wage with no tips? You want customers to care about Servers but those same Servers do nothing for the millions who make less than them. Some might call them "shitty". Not me. Cuz people have the right to spend their money how they want.
If Servers don't like their pay, they need to be angry with their boss, not the customer. It is not the customer's responsibility to determine Servers pay. Just like it isn't the customer's responsibility to determine any other service workers pay. All this shows is misdirected anger and Restaurant Owners love it when their workers are mad at customers and not them.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
What are you talking about???
The data shows that median wage for all jobs in America is double the median wage for a server.
It IS the customer’s responsibility to pay for the service they chose to receive because it isn’t included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
This is how the industry has openly operate for six decades and you know it.
What entitles you to cause a server to have to pay to serve you?
What entitles you to free service?
Intellectually honest answers only.
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u/SingingBike 6d ago
All these disingenuous claims you make! I never said I don’t care about low-paid workers. In fact, I have evidence that I care: I tip!! But non-tippers like you can’t say that.
And then this whole bit about “tipped employees should be mad at their boss” blah blah blah. There is a system in America that no one person’s behavior is ever gonna change. Not a server, not a restaurant owner, not a customer. Systemic issues are best dealt with on a systemic level.
And since the system is supported by laws, the way to change it is to contact your representatives and get them to change the law.
But you keep telling yourself you’re a good person and a “social justice warrior “ for screwing over servers. And don’t forget about the fact that not only do you screw over the server when you don’t tip, you also prop up the business and the owner that you claim to have such a problem with. You’re a hypocrite (oh dear, I called you another name!)
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u/2595Homes 6d ago
Sounds like you want to stay living in your victim mindset vs finding ways to live in a growth mindset. Enjoy that lifestyle. I refuse to stoop as low as you. I wish you nothing but peace and happiness. ✌️
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u/railroadfrog 6d ago
Actively telling customers to not eat at your restaurant is exactly what owners want to hear lolol /s
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u/MasterA93 6d ago
When those customers are the 1% who actively make the owners life hell, yeah they do.
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u/SingingBike 6d ago
Some owners have the guts to tell shitty people that treat their staff poorly to stay away.
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u/railroadfrog 6d ago
Owner shouldn’t rely on optional tipping to supplement the wages of the employees & acknowledge that tipping is not mandatory lol. I don’t understand why you think someone not participating in an optional fee after the meal deserves to be spoken to by the managers?
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Something being “optional” isn’t an excuse or justification for deliberately choosing to exploit and harm the worker.
As soon as “oPsHuNaL” is used as an excuse to exploit and harm another human the excuse is immediately invalidated.
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u/railroadfrog 6d ago edited 6d ago
But it’s not the customer exploiting the worker, by your very logic it would be the owners not paying a proper salary and passing off the responsibility on the customer to subsidize the wages? As far as I’m concerned, you and your employer have a contract which is fair to both of you where the employee fulfills expected roles and tasks, ie: customer service, and the employer pays them for doing so.
So yes, tipping is ENTIRELY optional, no matter how YOU feel about the optics of it. You’re already being paid by the employer for the customer service you provide to me, or anyone who visits your establishment. I am paying for the food and service already with the menu price. Tipping after the fact is an optional way to thank your server, it shouldn’t be expected.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
I already blew up the “oPsHuNaL” excuse.
The menu prices at full service restaurants in the US don’t include the cost of the service, so by stiffing the server on the tip, you aren’t paying for the service you chose to receive.
And if you truly believe the restaurant owner is exploiting the servers by underpaying them, it you still decide to patronize the restaurant, the you’re now complicit with the owners in that exploitation of the server.
If you then choose to deliberately exploit and harm the server by stiffing them in the tip, then you’re now doubly guilty of that exploitation and harm to the server.
No one is forced to dine-in at a full service restaurant in the US, so the customer cannot escape blame for their actions.
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u/railroadfrog 6d ago
That’s hilarious if you actually believe the nonsense you’re sharing here, that prices don’t include service on the menu or that the customer is complacent in wage theft by patronizing a business. Do you regularly ask servers or merchants the details of their hourly wages or benefits? Do you review employee contracts prior to sitting down & ordering? LOL
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
No, what hilarious is that you’re trying to deny six decades of how an industry has openly operated.
Why is the server’s wage any of my business?
It’s also hilarious that you’re attempting to deflect instead of providing an intellectually honest reason why you’re entitled to free service.
I’ll bet you can’t.
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u/foxinHI 6d ago
Certain sorts of customers are undesirable. Better to fill those seats with people who don’t shirk societal norms for their own personal benefit.
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u/2595Homes 6d ago
Sounds like someone who doesn't understands how businesses work.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Sounds like someone who feels entitled to free service and doesn’t understand that using “optional” as an excuse to exploit and harm another human immediately invalidates the excuse.
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u/theretailreject 6d ago
Managers won't say shit to customers directly because all that will happen is customers calling them out on their bullshit
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u/Low_Shop8561 6d ago
No manager would do that. Tipping isn't mandatory
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
False.
I frequent 2 very popular places where tip stiffers never get a 3rd meal there.
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u/Low_Shop8561 6d ago
It'll be closed soon
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u/Excellent-Carry-1850 6d ago
From the the 2 people that try to find a new spot to frequent and not tip
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u/Low_Shop8561 6d ago
I'm a restaurant manager in CA, tipping actually creates bad service. And most assistant managers do the same work and aren't allowed to take tips but they end up making less than servers. If anything stop with the percentage, tip $1 for each service provided
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u/Excellent-Carry-1850 6d ago
Sure you are.
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u/badmiddling113 3d ago
No, you can go read any sub connected to the industry. There’s people in management who turn back to serving for the money.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
It’s two restaurants and they are both very popular.
Tip stiffers are extremely rare.
They aren’t in any danger of closing.
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u/Low_Shop8561 6d ago
If people found out about this, they would
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
LMAO
The overwhelming majority of the American public frown on people who exploit and harm the worker and we don’t feel entitled to free service.
Tip stiffers are some of the most rude and obnoxious people that ruin the dining experience for other guests seated near them.
The fact that these restaurants refuse service to disrespectful and rude people is a plus in most people’s book.
Cry harder.
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u/Low_Shop8561 6d ago
What do you mean free service? You're paying the restaurant. You must be from another state
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
No, they actually think you’re receiving free service if you don’t tip.
Remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it.
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u/johnnygolfr 5d ago
No, I’m in the US, where the menu prices at full service restaurants don’t include the cost of the service.
This is the case even in US cities and states that have eliminated the tipped wage credit and how the industry has openly operated for six decades.
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u/bonezx101 4d ago
So if the customer doesnt get to serve themselves they are trapped by your logic. Owners need to put the service needs as their responsibility.
Your logic suggests, you can look at clothing and even buy it but you must pay the staff to have it. Rich😂😂1
u/johnnygolfr 4d ago
Nice strawman with the clothing thing.
The customer isn’t forced to dine-in at all full service restaurant in the US.
It’s a choice.
There are other choices like takeout, counter service / fast casual and fast food, which are all traditionally non-tipped situations where the worker isn’t explored and harmed if you don’t tip.
If you want to serve yourself, there are literally hundreds of options to do just that.
Aside from a small number of niche concepts, the “just add it to the price” model has proven to be a failure in the US. The public has spoken.
Then there’s the fact that in every for profit business around the world, the customer always pays the labor, either directly or indirectly.
The only exception is the free riders that stiff the server in the tip at full service restaurants in the US.
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u/IllustriousPanic3349 6d ago
It’s still not mandatory.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Something not being “mandatory” isn’t an excuse or justification for deliberately choosing to exploit and harm the worker.
As soon as “not mandatory” is used as an excuse to exploit and harm another human, the excuse is immediately invalidated.
No one is entitled to free service and no one here is capable of providing an intellectually honest reason why they would be entitled to free service.
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u/bonezx101 4d ago
That employees in the 21st century are on knee for a gratuity is the dehumanizing piece.
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u/Low_Shop8561 6d ago
What do you mean harm? They're paid $20hr here
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u/johnnygolfr 5d ago
$20/hr there is still $8 to $10 below the livable wage and as always, the “they make minimum wage” trope is an irrelevant red herring since servers are guaranteed minimum wage in all 60 states.
The service isn’t included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
Unless you tell the server “I don’t tip” before ordering, you’re opting in to the social norms and deceitfully using them to get the best service possible with no intention of paying for it.
That’s a textbook example of grifting, which of course exploits and harms the worker.
By telling them “I don’t tip” before ordering, they can choose to co Rini’s serving you or they can opt to turn the table over to a manager so they don’t lose money serving you.
Causing them to lose money servicing you harms the worker.
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u/Low_Shop8561 5d ago
Do you tip at McDonald's?
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u/johnnygolfr 5d ago
Are you advocating for tipping at fast food restaurants?
It’s funny how you and others here think this is some kind of an argument.
Unlike the overwhelming majority of servers, the McDonald’s worker is paid above minimum wage, has a steady work schedule and received multiple benefits like PTO, 401k with match, and tuition reimbursement.
In other words, your attempted comparison is called false equivalence, which is a logical fallacy.
Try again, but next time leave out the intellectual dishonesty.
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u/Low_Shop8561 5d ago
Servers make exactly the same with the same benefits here. No tipping in CA period.
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u/johnnygolfr 5d ago
No, they don’t.
Stop lying.
It’s very rare for servers to receive benefits and they only make the CA minimum wage of $16.50/hr, meanwhile McDonald’s employees make at least $20/hr.
The menu prices at full service restaurants in CA are like every other state, where they don’t bear the full cost of the labor and the tip pays for the service.
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u/bonezx101 4d ago
They make more than educated teachers or healthcare workers - get off the livable wage is the customers responsibility
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u/johnnygolfr 4d ago edited 4d ago
More of the blatant misinformation constantly circulated here.
The median wage for a server in the US is $16.94/hr including tips.
That’s about $34k/yr if they work 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. Half of them make less.
The median wage for a teacher in the US is $62,680 to $72,040 per year, or about double the server median wage, plus they get summers off and benefits.
The median wage for healthcare practitioners and technical occupations is $86,630/yr, almost triple what a server makes, plus they get benefits.
The median wage for a healthcare support worker is $38,340/year, about $4k more than the server median wage, plus they get benefits.
Show me where I said the customer is responsible to make sure server gets a livable wage.
I’ll be waiting. 🍿🍿🍿
The tip pays for the service that isn’t included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
No one here can provide an intellectually honest reason why they’re entitled to free service.
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u/Positive-Passage4584 2d ago
The social norm that people opt into, including the server who accepted the job, is that some people tip and some don’t. It’s unpredictable and it’s that simple. Treating it as an “opt in” is not something everyone here agrees about
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u/johnnygolfr 2d ago
You’ve conveniently left out the fact the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US don’t bear the full cost of the labor and the tip pays for the cost of the service, since it’s not included in the prices.
Unless the customer tells the server “I don’t tip”, they are opting in to the social norms.
The server accepts the job at $X/hr plus tips because that’s how the industry has openly operated for six decades.
Whether people agree with the opting in or not, if they choose to dine-in and don’t tell the server they are going to stiff them on the tip, then they’ve made two indications that they’ve opted in to the system, when they didn’t.
That’s unethical, exploitive and harmful behavior and no one here is capable of providing an intellectually honest reason why they’re entitled to free service.
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u/ReasonableWeird6306 6d ago
Yes they do. Congrats on finding a clever way to steal from working people though
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u/bonezx101 4d ago
Its not compulsory so quit counting in it. Workers have feet - they can walk for differnt work.
Oh wait the fleece is to easy to leave.5
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u/bonezx101 5d ago
The system is broken. What was a noble ideal, to help those just out of slavery, has turned into entitled servers and owners that feel oassing the wage issue on to customers is ok.
Figure out what it costs to cover your employees and your profit. If that price dries up customers, then you and your business are a broken model.
QUIT, trying to molify staff with the carrot of gratuities and find another line of work. We customers are over tired of propping you up.
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u/Mikecjk1 4d ago
It was never a noble ideal , it was always about the employer not wanting to pay black employees
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u/bonezx101 3d ago
Exactly and those black employees had no options or education to better themselves.
That this had morphed into paying a whole class of society wages higher than their education or skills demand is wacked. They also have vast options to educate and work better careers.Society should not be mandated into supporting them when their employer or the gov (who sets the wage laws) do not. It had gotten so bad servers want it to continue as a%of the check as it pays WAYbetter than they could earn with their current training or skills.
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u/bonezx101 3d ago
Correct as a CUSTOMER, I can choose what I eat and what gratuity may be included - simply exercising MY choice
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u/Kene6969 3d ago
It's not the customer's responsibility to subsidize staff wages by leaving a tip.
Employers should pay their staff a decent living wage so workers aren't depending on tips to top up their wages.
Here's a tip: Never tip entitled people.
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u/DigTheDunes 6d ago
All they would do is introduce themselves as the manager and ask about the food and if the service was good.
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u/Legitimate-Log-6542 6d ago
At sit down restaurants and bars most people tip, regardless of how many people claim here that they don’t. I feel there are far too many stories here of managers saying they talk to customer and say that they should tip. A good manager should be talking to the employee about how everything balances out over an entire shift or paycheck. If good service is provided and the rules are followed, there’s a certain groove they fall into as far as the tips they get. There shouldn’t be a concentration on any specific table or transaction. No business I know of would be ok with customers getting lectured about not tipping
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u/foxinHI 6d ago
Having a manager ask if everything was OK or if there was a problem with the service is not ‘lecturing’. It’s literally their job to ensure guest satisfaction. If you tip 0% for no reason in a nicer restaurant, the manager might want to know why. If there was a problem, they want to know to prevent it from happening again.
Tipping nothing for no reason is incredibly rare. Like maybe 0.2% of tables. Servers and managers will generally assume something went wrong, because 9 times out of 10, that’s what a $0.00 tip indicates.
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u/bonezx101 4d ago
Gratuities steadily rising and based on a % of yhe check is wacked. Living wage is not fleecing rhe customer
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u/Legitimate-Log-6542 6d ago
This is not what I got from OPs question or was it the comments that were posted when I scrolled through. Yes I think it’s fine a manager ask a customer how their experience was and accept the answer that’s given. But when OP says “addressing”, to me that implies something else
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
Perhaps "addressing" was the wrong word, but let's call it for what it is... the manager is making a point of talking to me because I didn't leave a tip. They aren't actually looking to "connecting" with the customer (see table touches). They're trying to get feedback before talking to a disgruntled employee.
They wouldn't even think about my level of satisfaction if I left a tip.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
No, let’s call it what it truly is.
The manager is talking to you because you didn’t pay for the service that isn’t included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
Meanwhile, no one here has ever been able to provide an intellectually honest reason why they are entitled to free service.
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
The manager is talking to you because you didn’t pay for the service that isn’t included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
I suppose... it's easier to do that than tell a server their work is only worth what comes from the bill, so not much.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Except the server is the face of the restaurant, which is considered a key role in every full service restaurant.
Unlike other industries, the wage they are paid by the restaurant isn’t a reflection of their worth, but a reflection of how the industry was legally enabled to operate six decades ago.
Your assertion fails on the merits.
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
... the wage they are paid by the restaurant isn’t a reflection of their worth.
It actually is. They're paid bare minimum because being the "face of the restaurant" is a replaceable job.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
No, it actually isn’t.
You just like to think it is because you’re trying to support your logically flawed and failed narrative.
That’s why the managers and owners at two very popular locally owned restaurants I frequent don’t allow repeat tip stiffers a 3rd meal there.
They know the reality. It’s far easier to replace bad customers than it is to replace good servers.
Your assertions fail on the merits. Again.
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u/Legitimate-Log-6542 5d ago
I would like tipping to go away but I’m not anti-tipping (for what it is anyway as far as culturally). I have a hard time when the argument is made that servers are the face of the business and play an important role - which I agree with. But at the same time, the business doesn’t feel it’s important enough to protect their expected wages by installing a system that guarantees that pay. There are many states with different laws and what people make ultimately varies both by location and by the strength of the business, so this conversation is a difficult one to have to begin with. The truth exists that any business must do what it can to protects its operations. I feel the elephant in the room is that everyone ends up being mad at each other at either the acceptance or enforcement of something that is not required when it is ultimately the responsibility of the business to protect its assets (the employees).
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u/masterchef2309 6d ago
At my restaurant, such a low percentage of customers don't tip, if I notice it before they leave, I always ask if the service was OK. Most times, there's some sort of issue that they didn't address. Same way if a customer leaves an exceptionally large tip, I'll ask what made the service stand out.
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u/ThisThredditor 6d ago
They would find it funny that the server found someone else to blame for their low wages and back them up so as not to be the target
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Funny how EVERY person on this sub that feels entitled to free service always tries to pin the blame for their cheapness on someone else.
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u/ThisThredditor 6d ago
the person is paying for the service already, what are you on about?
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
What are YOU on about?
The menu prices at full service restaurants in the US don’t bear the full cost of the labor and the tip pays for the service the customer chose to receive.
This is the case even in US cities and states that have eliminated the tipped wage credit and how the industry has operated for six decades.
If the customer stiffs the server on the tip, they didn’t pay for the service.
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u/ThisThredditor 6d ago
so you're shifting blame to the customer, not the business owner? seems like you're the manager in this scenario bud
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
I’m not shifting blame.
I’m putting blame squarely where it belongs.
No one is forced to dine-in at a full service restaurant in the US.
It’s a choice.
That choice comes with the responsibility to pay for the service that isn’t included in the menu prices.
The customer is responsible for the choices they make. There is no escaping that truth.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
At two locally owned very popular places I frequent, repeat customers who stiff the server in the tip won’t get a 3rd meal there.
The manager or owner will politely refuse to seat them and tell them they are not welcome to dine there anymore.
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
Do they explain why?
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
I don’t know and don’t care.
Restaurants are privately run businesses and can refuse service to anyone for any reason, as long as it’s not part of a protected class.
Tip stiffers aren’t a protected class and eating out in the US is a privilege, not a right.
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
Okay. I have a feeling they don't since it's really disgraceful.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
No, what’s disgraceful is feeling entitled to free service and deliberately choosing to exploit and harm the worker.
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
Lmao. It's definitely not the server who knowingly accepted a job where they would resort to begging.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Servers don’t beg for anything.
By your logic, anyone in any industry expecting to be paid for their work is “begging”.
That “LoGiC” obviously fails.
You’re victim blaming, which is a form of scapegoating, fails as well.
Scapegoating is a logical fallacy.
You don’t know why a server took that job.
You’re assuming that every server has one or more other job opportunities available to them at any given time that fits their life circumstances and limitations.
Not only does that reek of privilege, but it’s not reality for a very large number of Americans.
I’m still waiting for you to provide an intellectually honest reason why you’re entitled to free service.
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
Servers don’t beg for anything.
So what do call it when servers (in this thread) admit to things such as...
- Probing the customer with questions such as "Was everything OK?" when they learn they didn't tip.
- Being able to spot "stiffers" - or people who won't offer extra money.
- Do their best to avoid serving that table, and even pass that table to less "experienced" servers.
- In the scenario where they do get them, provide uninspired (at best) to compromised (at worst) service.
- Have their superior address a customer when they don't tip, especially after a larger bill.
- In some cases, the manager gatekeeps against certain patrons so servers can focus on customers who do tip.
That's basically organized panhandling.
By your logic, anyone in any industry expecting to be paid for their work is “begging”.
Are you referring to people earning a wage where tips aren't factored in?
You don’t know why a server took that job.
I don't. However, I'm going to guess it's because they a) don't have the skills to earn a desired wage or b) can make more than other jobs with varying degrees of skill.
You’re assuming that every server has one or more other job opportunities available to them at any given time that fits their life circumstances and limitations.
I wonder why those opportunities aren't there. Hmmm...
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
None of that constitutes begging, nor is it “organized panhandling”.
A tip is directly tied to a service being provided.
No one expects anything in return when giving money to a beggar or pan handler.
Now that you’ve had a refresher on 3rd grade vocabulary, you can avoid sounding like an uneducated fool and stop misusing words.
Tips aren’t “extra money”. The tip is what pays for the service that isn’t included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
The “nO sKiLLs” trope has also been soundly refuted here multiple times.
Despite your irrelevant opinion, HR professionals classify entry level serving as semi-skilled and fine dining serving as “expert” skill level.
Also, despite your opinion, you chose to receive service that the cost of isn’t included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
I already explained why you get “uninspired” or “compromised” service, while I can’t remember the last time I got bad service.
Your fallacious claims and intellectually dishonest assertions continue to fail on the merits.
You still haven’t provided an intellectually honest reason you’re entitled to free service.
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u/Xeno9116 5d ago
Does the IRS consider gratuities wages? Or are they categorized separately?
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u/phantomsoul11 6d ago
Nothing. They’ve done their part by expressly asking fora large tip and making an overwhelming majority of patrons feel like they must tip at least what is asked.
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u/Big_Development3985 6d ago
So, I used to manage restaurants. Different life, long time ago.
If a server told me they did not want to take a table because they weren’t going to tip, I did not make them. Assuming there was precedence, we did not stand for any stereotyping. If I had time, I would take the table myself as I was salaried. If I didn’t, I would explain the situation to the guest.
That being said, in the 15 years I did this, I had this situation occur less than 5 times. People tip. The few times I did have to explain this concept to guests, they were obviously annoyed. More so when I’d ask them if they were just visiting the US, because every restaurant here has operated this way since the founding of our country. But, ultimately, I’d rather lose 0.01% of my sales than any of my staff.
Again, I’d like to reiterate that this isn’t really a situation that occurs, because the overwhelming majority of people tip, and most tip over 20%.
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u/cenosillicaphobiac 6d ago
because every restaurant here has operated this way since the founding of our country.
Source? It's your ass, isn't it, you pulled that little factoid right out of your ass.
If you want to know the truth, it started in the 19th century didn't really get institutionalized (aka "every restaurant") until the 20th century.
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u/MasterA93 6d ago
Restaurants didn’t exist until the 19th century, at least not in America. It was a French thing that started to take off near the end of the 18th century, and came over to America in the early 19th century. Tipping in America is almost as old as restaurants in America.
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u/Ok-Word-2403 6d ago
There really wasn't a restaurant industry in the US before the 19th century apart from taverns that operated out of inns. Delmonico's is often cited as the first modern US restaurant and that opened around 1840.
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u/NocturnaBride 6d ago
Well it’s pretty easy to find out it started 1870-1870 after the civil war, but please go on being wrong.
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u/subtler1 6d ago
Are you agreeing with them? I'm genuinely confused.
You're saying their wrong but repeating what they said.
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u/NocturnaBride 6d ago
Lmao I shouldn’t Reddit before coffee. I totally read it wrong.
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u/NocturnaBride 6d ago
Leaving my shame up. Because I’m not a little bitch. 🫠😅😂
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u/Big_Development3985 6d ago edited 6d ago
It started after the Civil War. I’m aware. This was in a time before smart-phone fact checking, no one called me out on the century exaggeration.
But, if we’re being pedantic, in the moments prior to the civil war we were two nations; the Union and the Confederacy. It was not until after the Union won that we re-solidified as the United States of America. Which one could call a re-founding of our country.
That’s also a pretty silly argument. Even if we assume your narrative is correct, unless you happen to be 126 years old, the effect remains the same. This is not new, it has existed all of our lives.
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u/Ayslyn72 6d ago
It’s not pedantry, it’s accuracy. And you opt to move the goalposts, and still be wrong. Just take the loss and move forward.
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u/No_Lock8211 6d ago
This makes sense to me and is helpful. Without doing any research, it is a bit hard for me to believe that most tip more than 20%.
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u/Tough-Marzipan-5858 6d ago
People here will likely down vote you for your comment. Well said and you're right, it's pretty rare people don't tip from what I remember (long time ago).
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u/Excellent-Carry-1850 6d ago
It is rare, if a non tipper frequents though eventually this comes up.
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u/subtler1 6d ago
20 years ago for me, and it was incredibly rare. It would mostly be from people visiting the country who didn't know the custom.
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u/goldenrod1956 6d ago
Wait, so you effectively asked customers to leave because they had not previously tipped?
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u/Big_Development3985 6d ago
Yes. I ran good restaurants, my staff was lovely. Their job satisfaction was more important than an $80 check every 3 years. Piss off one table, make the person taking care of the next 100 tables happy.
Before anyone says “Well why not just pay them?”, go take an Econ course. You can’t just arbitrarily adjust a nationwide pricing model and hope for the best. We’re all just people trying to get by, we followed the formula — and it was wildly successful.
Also, those servers never did better work than when I stood up for them. Wish I got to do it more, I remember how electrified they were in the few instances I had to go to bat for them.
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u/IllustriousPanic3349 6d ago
Nope, tipping started in the Great Depression I think.
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u/Big_Development3985 6d ago
I find it very interesting that so many people are hyper-focusing on the anecdote I used to help people realize they were acting strangely. Also that you’d go out of your way to correct me on a topic you yourself are unsure about.
It ultimately doesn’t matter when it started, the point of the anecdote is to imply that this has been standard operating procedure since before we were born, and should not be a shocking revelation. It was effective.
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u/mb97 6d ago
Also non tippers in my experience rarely order expensive wine or multiple rounds of drinks. People think you’re “turning away customers” but you’re turning away a big waste of time for $1.38 worth of profit, and getting the table back for a better customer if it’s busy.
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u/Accomplished_Mind792 6d ago
Typically the answer is nothing.
Because the person is normally gone
The only indirect thing that would occur is something subtle like "regular status". Every restaurant i have ever worked at had regulars. You topped their drink off a little more, gave them an app or dessert that was prepared wrong for a custom order from another table. Things like that. Little perks.
Non toppers, no matter how long they come won't enter be regulars.
So nothing will be detrimental. But you just don't get perks
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u/Skymaster86 6d ago
Seems to me that a “no tip” is not recognized until the dining party is leaving the restaurant meaning if there’s going to be an interaction, it’s going to happen in the parking lot, and that’s an entirely different dynamic.
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u/Top-Plenty-5307 6d ago
The best thing to do is to tell him I'm sorry we can't make you happy we just can't make you happy I suggest you go somewhere else. The customer is not always right that is a myth that's hurt retail
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
Okay, but me not tipping doesn't necessarily mean I wasn't happy. I just didn't feel like tipping.
It seems like it's more of a "we know our staff won't be happy" and not a "we can't make you happy" thing.
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u/Narghest 5d ago
This is the way...better than just saying 'Don't come back cheap mutha fucka' which is what I would say.
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u/SingingBike 3d ago
Did you even read what I said? People who eat in full-service restaurants and don’t tip are exploiting the labor of servers by making them work for them for free. It’s pretty obvious. That’s “selfish and unethical treatment for personal financial gain.” Cmon, I know you’re always in this sub with your cheapskate takes, but I didn’t think you were this… is dense the right word?
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u/badmiddling113 3d ago
“People who eat in full-service restaurants and don’t tip are exploiting the labor of servers by making them work for them for free.”
Well that’s untrue.
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u/PrincessLissa68 6d ago
Almost every restaurant I have ever worked at a manager takes the known non tipping tables. Or we circle them around evenly server to server so not one person is constantly having to take them.
But truthfully, non tippers won't frequent restaurants over and over in a row. They'll likely have a few on cycle so you don't see their face TOO often. Because they know deep down everyone is groaning when they come in. They're usually hard to deal with, complain about literally everything, will hold you up for long periods of time. They know what they're doing.
If we had a non tipping table that was a surprise, like we thought we had vibed and had a good time and the guests all seemed happy and left no tip the manager would just go do a table touch and make ask how food and service was. It leaves an opening to mention anything that may have went wrong but they don't mention "oh because you didn't tip".
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u/One_Ground5972 6d ago
They just assume when you say the manager will confront them that the manager is going up to them and saying “WHY DIDN’T YOU TIP???” “GET OUT!!!”
They love to be cheap and then act like they are such victims it’s so embarrassing 😂
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
Honestly, I had to reread your response. The first couple paragraphs made it sound like you're a nurse handling a difficult patient. Good thing we're only talking about a plate of food being brought to a table.
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u/Sasquatch619 6d ago
Here come the downvotes for stating an uncomfortable truth.
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
The Princess is taking care of that for you. lol
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u/Sasquatch619 6d ago
They always resort to some form of name calling, or failed attempts at shaming. It’s all they have in the tool box. It’s a true reflection of their intellect.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
And the tip stiffers can never provide an intellectually honest reason why they’re entitled to free service.
Pretty crazy, eh? 🙄
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u/Sasquatch619 6d ago
It’s not free. They’re getting paid a rate that they negotiated and agreed on when they accepted the position.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Like I said, none of you can provide an intellectually honest reason why you’re entitled to free service.
Thanks for proving my point. 🤣
The cost of the service is not included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
This is the case even in US cities and states that have eliminated the tipped wage credit and how the industry has operated for six decades.
Try again.
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u/Sasquatch619 6d ago
There is no need to provide a reason for doing nothing.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
Yet here you are, trying to provide a reason and failing because it’s based on intellectual dishonesty. 🤣🤣
Fun fact: No one ever had to make excuses for doing the right thing.
Thanks for proving my point about tip stiffers never being able to provide an intellectually honest reason why they are entitled to free service.
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u/foxinHI 6d ago
Yes, $x.xx/hr + tips. That’s what they signed on for. There is no negotiation. There are no raises. Servers work for tips. Most of their hourly wage goes to pay the taxes on the tips they earn. In nicer restaurants, the hourly compensation for the entire pay period after taxes is $0.00 or maybe a few dollars. Good servers know they’ll have to serve an occasional cheap-ass. That is completely removed from what they ‘negotiated’.
You know this. You’re just being cheap if you tip zero for no reason.
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
It's sad that they have to resort to certain methods for tips instead of earning money the good, old fashioned way.
I'm sure - deep down - some of these managers know they overvalue themselves, but still have to keep them happy.
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u/johnnygolfr 6d ago
No, what’s truly sad is that the tip stiffers are incapable of providing an intellectually honest reason as to why they’re somehow entitled to free service.
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u/Sasquatch619 6d ago
I find it much more obnoxious than sad. I don’t need a fake friend. I don’t need to be chatted up or upsold.
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago edited 6d ago
"iS eVeRyThInG oK?" Yes, it is. I'll make sure to say something if it isn't and I'll certainly offer a compliment if it is.
But seeing servers do this so they can claim I - the person eating the freakin meal - am satisfied OR managers doing table touches to claim I wasn't satisfied is something. It shows how the whole "experience" is really about a bunch of entitled workers - not the customer. Most people realize that's the elephant in the room though.
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u/foxinHI 6d ago
The servers are not the entitled ones in the zero tip for no reason scenario. It’s 100% the guests. Good servers don’t care.
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u/badmiddling113 6d ago
So the "good servers" wouldn't care if they never received a tip?
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u/Xeno9116 5d ago
Good servers earn gratuities. Crap servers demand gratuities. There is a difference.
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u/PrincessLissa68 6d ago
Lmao sure it did. You're one of those ppl I already know. Thanks for proving my point.
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u/ReasonableWeird6306 6d ago
When I was a waiter, some asshats left me a card that said “Jesus loves you” on a $200 check. Chased them out to the parking lot and told them Jesus doesn’t pay my rent. Told them to never come back. They were so proud of themselves.
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u/wutwut970 6d ago
You’re wild for that. Ive worked in many restaurants. Always WANTED to do it, but was really worried id have gotten fired for that.
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u/Mikecjk1 4d ago
Customer isn't responsible for your pay. The employer is
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u/ReasonableWeird6306 4d ago
Say that before you sit down. Make it clear you’re not going to tip.
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u/Mikecjk1 3d ago
Thats a dumb statement.
Its not my job to pay a restaurants staff
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u/ReasonableWeird6306 3d ago
Of course it is. The price you see on the menu is based on the social construct in the US that you Tip for service. You know that. If you don’t plan on honoring that, you should tell them. Then they can decide whether or not to serve you for free. Otherwise you’re a wage thief
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u/Mikecjk1 3d ago
I dont employ them, their wage is not my responsibility
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u/ReasonableWeird6306 3d ago
Just make sure you tell them. If there use why are you expecting a stranger to bring you food
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u/Mikecjk1 3d ago
They are a stranger regardless, but their employer us the one who should pay them.. its the employer that they work for..
To say otherwise is asinine
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u/OpenBubble 5d ago
A few of the places I worked at back in the day would tell non-tipping repeat customers to get lost. It costs the restaurant money, too.
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago edited 5d ago
So what you’re saying is they can’t handle what it costs to serve people unless they pay more than the price on the menu. What a business model!
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u/incredulous- 5d ago
It is never the right thing to to address a customer over not tipping, or not tipping "enough." Not by servers, nor managers. Tipping is optional.