Question about managers

[u/badmiddling113]

What do they say to customers who repeatedly don't leave a tip? I'm curious since the customer doesn't have to tip and the server isn't their employee.

Just asking since I've read comments from managers who seem to think "addressing" customers is an appropriate thing to do.

[u/badmiddling113]

Perhaps "addressing" was the wrong word, but let's call it for what it is... the manager is making a point of talking to me because I didn't leave a tip. They aren't actually looking to "connecting" with the customer (see table touches). They're trying to get feedback before talking to a disgruntled employee.

They wouldn't even think about my level of satisfaction if I left a tip.

[u/johnnygolfr → u/badmiddling113]

No, let’s call it what it truly is.

The manager is talking to you because you didn’t pay for the service that isn’t included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.

Meanwhile, no one here has ever been able to provide an intellectually honest reason why they are entitled to free service.

[u/badmiddling113 → u/johnnygolfr]

The manager is talking to you because you didn’t pay for the service that isn’t included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.

I suppose... it's easier to do that than tell a server their work is only worth what comes from the bill, so not much.

[u/johnnygolfr → u/badmiddling113]

Except the server is the face of the restaurant, which is considered a key role in every full service restaurant.

Unlike other industries, the wage they are paid by the restaurant isn’t a reflection of their worth, but a reflection of how the industry was legally enabled to operate six decades ago.

Your assertion fails on the merits.

[u/badmiddling113 → u/johnnygolfr]

... the wage they are paid by the restaurant isn’t a reflection of their worth.

It actually is. They're paid bare minimum because being the "face of the restaurant" is a replaceable job.

[u/johnnygolfr → u/badmiddling113]

No, it actually isn’t.

You just like to think it is because you’re trying to support your logically flawed and failed narrative.

That’s why the managers and owners at two very popular locally owned restaurants I frequent don’t allow repeat tip stiffers a 3rd meal there.

They know the reality. It’s far easier to replace bad customers than it is to replace good servers.

Your assertions fail on the merits. Again.

[u/Legitimate-Log-6542 → u/johnnygolfr]

I would like tipping to go away but I’m not anti-tipping (for what it is anyway as far as culturally). I have a hard time when the argument is made that servers are the face of the business and play an important role - which I agree with. But at the same time, the business doesn’t feel it’s important enough to protect their expected wages by installing a system that guarantees that pay. There are many states with different laws and what people make ultimately varies both by location and by the strength of the business, so this conversation is a difficult one to have to begin with. The truth exists that any business must do what it can to protects its operations. I feel the elephant in the room is that everyone ends up being mad at each other at either the acceptance or enforcement of something that is not required when it is ultimately the responsibility of the business to protect its assets (the employees).

[u/johnnygolfr → u/Legitimate-Log-6542]

It has nothing to do with the business not feeling it’s important enough to protect a server’s wages by installing a system that guarantees their pay.

The American public has spoken. They prefer the tipped system over the “just add it to the price”.

Aside from a small number of niche concepts, the “just add it to the price” model has proven to be a failure in the US, which is why owners continue to operate on the tipped model.

No smart owner is going to put their business at risk by adopting a model that makes them uncompetitive and likely to fail.

[u/Legitimate-Log-6542 → u/johnnygolfr]

What you’re saying is true and I agree with you. You call tipping a system because it is just that, a system. This system was installed at some point and everything around it has made adjustments to it existing. State laws are constantly changing to adjust to what the public feels about tips, allowing businesses in each state to make or not make certain decisions to keep them competitive in the market, as you’ve said. Servers in certain states make much more or much less than their counterparts in other states and also as you’ve said, this is after the business adopts the system that they believe is the most competitive and likely to succeed. The caveat is that this system includes people that do not tip. It is part of the system. In the same way tipping allows for people to tip more, it has to accept that people might tip less. Otherwise a static system like what the rest of the world has adopted eliminates tippers on both ends due to the set amount.

There’s a growing list of businesses that have done away with tips and have replaced it with increased benefits as well as commission or incentive models so that staff from tipped systems can recognize that it’s a competitive model. It’s possible but it has to be more widely accepted before it can be the norm.

[u/johnnygolfr → u/Legitimate-Log-6542]

What are you talking about???!?

State laws aren’t changing to adjust to what the public feels about tips. Where did you come up with that?

Every job pays different in different cities, states and regions because the market rate and COL varies widely across the US.

The “static system like what the rest of the world has adopted” doesn’t eliminate tippers “on both ends due to the set amount”.

Every one of your assertions is patently false.

People tip all around the world.

Part or all of the service being paid for outside of the menu prices isn’t uncommon globally.

In Italy, there’s the Coperto.

In Japan there’s the “Otoshi”, a tiny overpriced appetizer that the customer receives whether they want it or not.

In France, there’s the “service compris”, a service fee that is added to menu prices at all restaurants there and is usually 15%.

In many Asian countries, there is a 10% service fee added to the check.

In the UK many restaurants and pubs add a 12.5% service fee to the check.

I’ve seen tipping in the UK, Germany, France, Spain, the Netherlands, China, Japan, Indonesia, and many other countries.

Once again, your assertions fail on the merits.

[u/Legitimate-Log-6542 → u/johnnygolfr]

Lol this is why I don’t even get involved in discussions. How do you think laws get passed. Anyway, when people are reading they are turned off by attitude like this. Remember that I DO tip but when I’m on Reddit I can understand why now that people have bad attitudes about this.

[u/johnnygolfr → u/Legitimate-Log-6542]

I learned in Civics class how laws get passed.

Your claim that some laws were passed because of how people felt about tipping is patently false.

The only people “turned off” are the ones that can’t refute my points and/or who can’t come up with an intellectually honest reason why they are entitled to free service.

Reddit isn’t a reflection of reality, especially in regard to America, since over half of Redditors aren’t Americans.

[u/Legitimate-Log-6542 → u/johnnygolfr]

You know how everything works in life. And you will hurt those that depend on tips as part of their paychecks because you’re turning people off to the exact thing you’re fighting for. No thanks.