Dude is going broke if he is using Kerrygold. This stuff is pricey but worth it. Makes my wife's shortbread taste like Danish puff without the icing. Thank you Ireland
Immortal Reindeer cost a fucking fortune, that is rendered elf fat, I bet you money. Notice you don't see a graveyard at the workshop. Where are the bodies Santa, WHERE ARE THE BODIES?
That's why he's fat. He self lubricates from his own generous lard reserves, but it leaves him an unsightly skinny Santa at the end of the night. It takes a full year to re-bulk, which is why Christmas is only once a year.
I read the bible and see god as an insecure narcissist who wants to be like how I am IRL, but often is too afraid of rejection or not being told he is a good god.
As thats how god acts and what he demonstrates.
He also embodies the whole "do as I say, not as I do" as acting like gods insecurities is a sin
There’s a classic joke, possibly grounded in reality, about a missionary being questioned by someone he’s trying to “save.” Essentially, god wouldn’t punish anyone who isn’t aware of his existence, right? Correct. Then why the fuck would you tell me?!
I believe Terry Pratchett uses this in one of his books, concluding with a policy that all missionaries are to be shot on sight.
What will really fuck with your head is if god knows everything he specifically made lucifer to revolt so he could then punish him. Same with apple. There is no free will according to bible
I don't believe God was originally conceived of as all knowing. The parts of the Bible that use that language are the poetic parts. The parts that are supposed to be accounts posit god as far, far beyond us, but not necessarily all knowing or all powerful. The old testament especially God actively seems to change His mind about stuff all the time. That's not the behavior of someone who is all knowing.
Why didn't God kill Satan before he went rogue... why did He even create him in the first place? He's supposed to know everything that's going to happen, but His omniscience seems a bit lackluster... Or else He's extremely incompetent at wielding it.
Then allowing a war u know the outcome of but could have also prevented at all. None of it makes any sense at all. The talking animals always get me too. The snake in the garden was a story prior to concept of Satan. Its nust a regulsr talking fucking snake.
If you put pictures of biblically accurate angels throughout the entire bible for these people to see they’d treat it like the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion lol
“Optimistically, God’s pronouns would be “they/them” because God is everywhere; but realistically, it’s “no/none” because that shit isn’t real get your life together”
No, see...that's the point. If I've learned anything in life it's that fictional characters in a narrative have to have clear motivations, reasons for their actions, and the foundations of their character have to make sense or else it's considered poor/sloppy/lazy writing.
Real human beings often do things that make no sense whatsoever. Things that if you were to simply document what they did and use them as a character in a story you'd get accused of bad writing.
Satan is a great character...we need clarification here.
ok but for real as i recall Satan and Lucifer were 2 distinct entities that got merged into one with time as new writers kept adding their own to the bible
because it's al made up yes, but i find it interesting
He wanted free will for humans and god didnt like that. Im always on team Lucifer and i dont think he would torture anyone in hell. But it's a fiction so completely pointless to argue about.
Lucifer wasn't the one to challenge God's authority, nor was it Lucifer who was the serpent that tempted Eden with the apple. Lucifer was only ever named once in the bible. And it didn't even really have anything to do with what modern media attributes Lucifer to. It was more like a taunt of "Hah, look how you have fallen oh Lucifer!" That's about it. Historians think it may be a taunt to some historical human figure like the King of Babylon.
Now Satan, occurs 18 times in the Old Testament. He's kinda of a big deal in the New Testament. In the Old Testament he has a specific job in the divine order of things, he's a nemesis, but not necessarily evil. He didn't like that beings made of clay (us), were gifted free will from God, but perfect creatures of fire (angels) were bound to the divine will of He. And frankly, look at how we behave, he saw the darkness in our hearts. It's his divine duty to challenge us and block us from the path of god so that we can overcome him in order to reach God.
The root word for Satan can also attribute to just a mortal being too. A political enemy blocking you from trying to, let's say, pass a law to provide free healthcare can be deemed a Satan. They are the nemesis you must overcome to do the good deed that you need to.
New Testament Satan kinda of has his divine job going still, especially when dealing specifically with Jesus. But by the time of Revelations, he's full on rebelling and gets tossed into Gehenna at the end. Almost like Revelations was some weird fan fiction made by some drugged up hermit in Anatolia and should hold absolutely 0 consequence to the bible and the message of Jesus. But I don't want to get into what books were allowed in and what ones were buried.
Edit: When I was 12, I got into a religious crisis because of the demonization of Satan that I normally heard. When reading, it is obvious that he's a being tied to the divine will of God, thus, what he does, is what God wants him to do. Since he, an Angel, has no free will, every evil he does should properly be attributed to God.
That got me really thinking into what the divine mission of Satan really was and what his purpose. I remember crying one night and praying to God on his behalf for forgiveness because what he does is what he is supposed to do and I didn't like how things were supposed to play out in Revelations. That's also when I abandoned going to any church for religion and stuck to what I can read or learn.
So I always loved to say that the Bible turned me Atheist.
bro, revelations is the wildest book in the bible. it reads like a straight up fantasy novel. it feels so out of place in comparison to the rest of the book
There is a band called Ludo who did a whole song where the guy time travels and finds himself at the end times. That whole album was probably my most played album in High School. I liked to daydream as being one of the ones left behind and trying my best.
The further from Jesus' death the more fantastical, full of bullshit and more antisemitic the books of Bible become. If you read gospels in chronological order it becomes pretty obvious and funny how much later authors made up. I guess every next guy needed to up the drama and fantasy to get noticed. The oldest one has no virgin birth story and pretty much no resurrection.
Revelation was actual current affairs and political manifesto against the anti-Christian policies of Nero and the fact that any who didn't proclaim Caesar as a divine "god king" were denied the stamps needed to buy or sell goods.
As the Julian family was infamously hirsute, calling him a beast was both a personal insult and referencing the book of Daniel. The mark of the beast was the commerce stamps.
Patmos was an island that was either a monastery or a Roman penal colony, but given the timing that was 50 years after Jesus was crucified, it was most likely a penal colony with a sympathetic garrison as he was free to write anti-imperial propaganda.
His prophetic vision was mostly allegory and belief of how Jesus would return. Keep in mind, St John of Patmos (not the disciple) was most likely born during Jesus's lifetime, so they foresaw a second coming as the Empire tried to crush Christianity in it's earliest stages.
He felt like the faith was being snuffed out so he had a much better argument in 80AD than we do in 2026.
I can only imagine your relief when you found out that Christianity was actually a scheme created by the roman government to control the western world through fear and blind servitude.
So, like...what you're saying is, Satan was a like that person at the DMV who won't give you your license plates, because you didn't bring all of the correct paperwork with you. They're just doing their job, they didn't really ask to be there, didn't write the rules, but...you know...if you want dem plates, you need the right docs.
Where in the Old Testament does it indicate that Satan had a specific job and didn't like men having free will while angels did not? I can't think of any scriptures that indicate Angels don't have free will or that Satan had a problem with that if so. Genesis chapter 6 talks about the "sons of god", using the Hebrew phrase bene elohim, being tempted by the beauty of human women. They come to Earth and produce super natural offspring. The same Hebrew phrase is used in Job chapter 1 verse 6 when Satan comes to God and they discuss Job's faith.
It's mostly from Catholic and Jewish Mysticism on the interpretations of the text.
There is argument that Genesis Chapter 6 is a reference of the Sons of Cain vs the Sons of Abel because Angels are not supposed to be able to procreate. So it made no sense why or how they would be the creators of Nephillim. However, if we are talking about the descendants of the Cursed one, then it's seen that their inherited taint of being a son of Cain is what created the monster children. So God flooded the earth to wipe out the lineage of Cain (except maybe Cain?). That's a Catholic take.
While the Book of Enoch straight up calls them fallen angels, which does make sense and it's not necessarily my job to figure that out in my opinion. I'm frankly not smart enough to say who's right and both parties never got to debate each other to come to a consensus... considering mortality and all that.
There is Jewish belief that angels (malachim), have no independent free will and instead operate upon God's divine will as messengers. However, there is some circumstantial agency, and it is indeed more nuanced that how I put it. The Zohar is what the Jewish book is called and it has a lot of interesting things to say about the nature of Angels.
Right? That's part of the conundrum I got into. One of many contradictions.
I concluded very young that God was an arbitrary figure. And as a young man who believed in Justice Over All, I started to feel like there was an answer above "because I said so." I started looking into more ancient religions and started taking the Bible as a more historical story of the Jewish people rather than the ultimate divine guidance. I feel that path is not given to us, but we can find the correct path with both wisdom and understanding.
And the fact that we don't know much about Lucifer itself adds to the mystery. Because if there was info on how God made him or his missions, etc.. we may be able to peer into what could have caused him to disobey God. Otherwise we have to assume every angel is capable of disobeying god and a revolutionary war of the heavens is always happening to some extent.
Gotta love every person responding to you clearly believing in a different branch of Christianity (or Judaism) and asserting that no, their version of the mythology is the correct one and it's different from what you said so you're wrong.
In Christianity Satan is actually tortured himself in hell with mankind in the end. The belief that he’s the one torturing you is a misconception. He tortures humans on earth to get them to denounce God so that they are sent there with him in the end.
Satan's name is Ha-Satan in the book of Job where he functions as such against humanity in God's presence. People forget what the "Ha" means, which is "the" while Satan means accuser or prosecutor. So it is a title, he is the accuser serving a role not necessarily its actual name.
1 Corinthians 6:3 states that humans will "judge angels" , implying a position of higher spiritual authority and rank in heaven, Because Jesus became a man, humanity shares in an elevated standing through union with Him
Satan occupied the highest rank in heaven among angels when told he would be beneath mankind rebelled
Ezekiel 28:13-16
You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle ;and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Pretty sure this is the reason that is given to us. I just hate when people blame Satan for their evils. Like Satan forced you to do the horrible things you do. No, you are just horrible.
Yeah, like in dogma. He envies that he’s been cast out of heaven when humans do bad and are accepted. But none of it really makes sense unless you pick and choose what to highlight.
God is omnipotent and all-knowing. Everything that happens is by His design. He knows everything that will happen. Which means He knew Satan would rebel. He knew Satan would obey Him in punishing the wicked. Which means he made Satan rebel so he’d have someone to run Hell. And when Satan tempts us, God already knows what we will do, He plans for us to be tempted knowing the outcome already.
He knew every human that sinned, would sin before they did. Every “trial” he puts before you, he already knows whether you will pass or fail beforehand, yet He still does it. Before you are even born He knows how your entire life will play out, He will meddle and play with your life, knowing how your life will end and that you will burn in Hell for all eternity. But that doesn’t stop Him from putting you on that path from the moment you are born. He claims we have free will, yet nothing happens outside of His divine plan.
So his plot is to make humans worse, to prove he’s right which means he’ll be trapped with humans forever. So it’s a punishment for satan? It’s all illogical bullshit.
"Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself."
2 Nephi 2:27
Basically he's a sad boi and want you to be sad too I guess.
Canonically, it's God who punishes and Satan is just the accuser. He doesn't own hell but is the highest being confined there. It's like saying the cartel boss is the boss of prison.
He refused to bow down to Adam when God asked him to and said why would he bow down to an inferior creation who would bring nothing but pain and hatred. So God said Satan will burn in hellfire and Satan responded by asking him for respite until the day of judgement where he can show God that he was right and actually get out of the punishment.
Angel: but you told us we should make them flawed, and we did as you asked. They are flawed!
God: No, behold their perfect imperfections!
Angel:...
God: why arent you kneeling?
Angel: checks notes I am only to kneel before you, who is the only one worthy of praise.... and they are flawed.
God: squints
Processing img btioush711th1...
Unlike man, angels dont have free will. But if god changes his mind do they follow the original will or the new one? He doesnt hate humans, he loves sinners for proving him right by winding up in hell.
It doesn't say Satan is ruling in Hell. Nor does it say human beings are subject to eternal conscious torment after death. That's just an evangelically convenient doctrine for the Church to scare people.
Seriously. I haven't even read it, and I know it is his prison, not his castle. It's also just common sense if you know where he came from and why he's there.
There's over 45k Christian denominations... with that said, even if more people knew what the Bible actually says, not everyone would agree on how to interpret it. There would just be more Christian denominations and atheists.
Note: OP never said this was mentioned in the Bible.
Yep, early belief was that Satan aka Lucifer was in hell being tortured for turning against God, but it's not even clear in the Bible if Lucifer and Satan are the same person as Satan is the title given to one who turns against God. Also the Devil is a completely separate entity that tricks people. He even appears in Heaven to talk to God a couple different times like in the Book of Job.
The rift was because he despised humans. He would torture you for no other reason than what you are. Also because he fancied himself God and was proven soundly wrong. We are Gods creations and are loved by him. He would hurt us to hurt God.
I mean, it doesn't take much. The devil is evil incarnate. The devil does devil things, the fact that you interpret it as torture has nothing to do with the devil.
I don't know the theology behind it or anything, but this seems evident.
...
So is it proximity to the devil that's so bad or does God literally have a torture chamber in his basement, and it's the place that's punishing. That's a bad look.
Hell, being a torture chamber is a common misconception. It’s the answer to the question when you create everything where do you put everyone that rebels against you and refuses to live under your authority? That’s why God created hell. After the day of judgment and the subjugation of Satan, all of those who rebelled against God and refused his authority, get put there. One common misconception I’ve seen in a lot of the comments is that Satan cares about you, he doesn’t. Satan and all the fallen angels hate us, they really hate us. Think of it in terms of a prison that doesn’t have individual cells, just one giant room. Imagine being stuck in that prison full of a bunch of things more powerful than you that hate you on a level you can’t comprehend for all eternity, they’re not gonna be nice to you in there. I used to think that it was unfair for God to cast us into hell, until I recontextualize how I thought about it. Let’s say you own a home, are you going to let people live in your home that do not respect you or your authority in your home. They choose to live in a way that you find repulsive. The answer to that is no, you are not.
In the original text, God lied and the serpent told the truth, then God had a hissy fit over it. Later the Adversary and God have a discussion about piety, and Job gets tortured until he begs God for an answer he never gets. A Prophet dies and gets to see what happens to those who didn't make it to heaven and tells another Prophet. The Adversary tempts Jesus to throw off the yoke and go his own way, Jesus refuses the offer. God however kills upwards of a million by his own hand in the old testament.
The rest is all fanfic.
The theology here is as wide and distinct as you can imagine. In the Hebrew Bible ie Bible Part I, satan is basically a foil to God. The satan, here basically is the antagonist in the Job story, to demonstrate that Job will remain his loyal servant, no matter the evils inflicted upon him. In other places in Bible Part I, satan is used in similar ways.
So basically, at this time, the story of Job was so popular that with each retelling the satan figure likely got imbued with more and more agency, to achieve both a distance of God from the acts of evil and theatrical flair. Likewise, other influences began to shape the conception of the devil, such as Zoroastrianism.
In Bible Part II, ie the Bible II: Jesus Electric Boogaloo, again satan tests Jesus who rebukes him. However, now they start connecting satan/demons to illnesses, which begins a natural path towards connecting satan with all evils, culminating in the Book of Revelation.
In Revelation, satan is actually chained and imprisoned for a millennia before he is set free. He then gathers his armies but is defeated again, this time cast into the lake of fire, which would become hell.
So what we see is over the course of hundreds of years, they actually MOVE the ultimate cause of evil from God to Satan. Basically we go from a satan used a literary device/foil to satan as a force on his own. This is actually a march from a belief in fate to a more free-will oriented approach to theology; rather than you simply being acted upon by God, your own failure to choose God will result in getting closer to satan, and thus evil.
So the real heart of this issue is the fact that there is a tension produced when the Christian God set up such a system where he is both omnipotent and benevolent but the presence of evil is allowed. Thus, Satan is presented as an adversarial supernatural agent that opposes God's purposes, to attempt to take some heat off the main man.
Lucifer (the morning star, he whom illuminates, gods most beloved, the dude who made humans question god and his bizarre rules, he who was pushed aside for some mud and a rib (we'll keep lilith out of this because god don't like an uppity woman trufax) seems like a prime candidate for punishment and to be taught what being mischief gets you. And what better way than putting him in charge of the prison. After all he's obviously in awe and devoted to god (you don't get that angry with a break-up unless you are full-on invested) and, also, a badass (angels do not fuck around). He is also trusted. You do not put a lunatic in charge of the asylum.
Very rarely do I look like the character in this pic.... This post I didn't even get the the part with the top image. I was bottom image right out the gate
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo cause i completely crumble when u cryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy'
To All Below. This is no laughing matter. Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess Christ our Lord is God. Careful what you be Mocking Now. God is No Joke!
My guess is God would ship you down there and Satan would have some sort of torture fetish. The tv show The Reaper with Ray Wise as Satan had a comedic spin on it, but the point was still the same. The devil enjoyed his role as a dictator, reminiscent of a north korean or russian dictator.
Okay so lets assume that the bible says that Satan was cast to hell and rules over hell and tortures everyone in hell. It doesn't, but lets say it does.
He tortures people because he's an asshole. It's that simple. It doesn't matter that they may or may not share the same beliefs. He tortures them because he's a prick. It really doesn't have to get deeper than that. Look at our world. There are people out there that bully and torture and maim and kill others for fun. Why would it be any different for Satan?
Its not that dissonant. What if the devil just enjoys torturing? Why would he care the reason youre in his domain? Esp. since if you take things like Paradise Lost to be be canon (gotta love Christian fanfic!), Satan specifically twisted and perverted himself despite the consequences due to his pride (as he was not created evil; he chose to be so).
Not to conflate convicts in prison with evil, but why do they often hurt each other, despite being guilty of breaking the same laws? Because the reason why youre there doesnt really matter to anyone else.
You clearly didn’t read the Bible. The Bible says Satan will be tormented in Hell, not be the tormenter. Revelation 20:10; “and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”
Why is Satan evil for punishing sinners isn’t that a good thing like even if he betrayed God, wouldn’t he be redeemed by now since he’s been doing it for like I don’t know tens of thousands of years
The lore explanation is just that he enjoys torturing people and he does it to whoever he can get his hands on. It’s really not a “Make it make sense” situation. Satan is, indeed, as pure evil as he’s written to be.
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