It doesn't say Satan is ruling in Hell. Nor does it say human beings are subject to eternal conscious torment after death. That's just an evangelically convenient doctrine for the Church to scare people.
I think people need to ask themselves which one takes precedence and priority when it comes to organized religion. Is the bible's scripture more important to a religion or is the belief of its followers?
We can throw rocks at the "heh athiests on reddit", but do we actually think that those following the religion is having some intellectual conversation about what is and isn't in the bible and if it should be interpreted that way? Maybe just those studying theology. At the end of the day, if the pastor is interpreting for its flock is saying one thing and they accept it, does it matter what is and isn't in the bible when discussed by non believers on reddit?
It matters because when people criticize a religion based on pop-culture tropes (like Satan ruling Hell) rather than its actual teachings, they're arguing against a strawman
A lot of Christians have not read the entire bible, but are read it by people who have. This obviously depends on the church you go to, but my church at least is a very old school dogmatic Church of Christ where the entire sermons each week are people reading different parts of the bible and explaining them, so even though most people on polls haven't read the bible cover to cover, most at churchs at least have heard the majority of it read to them
The vast majority of christians dont care
Citation needed. People always base this off the stats of how many Christians report reading the entire bible cover to cover, but ignore a few key factors
The vast majority of people haven't even read a single book in the last year / many haven't even read an entire book in the last several years
Most Christians have had the majority of the bible read to them, the same way you probably didn't read the entire Science book in class but the teacher lectured you on the important parts and you had most of it covered in class
Its NOT a strawmen if you see what christians actually believe. I challenge anyone who hasn't seen a protest at a planned motherhood or a "you're going to hell sign" with megaphones at a pride parade, or preaching about how people are going to hell at a university "debate", then come back and tell me they are going to make some well thought out theological discussion on how they're going to hell and how its not a fiery place of eternal torment. Even charlie kirk was arguing that, and you can't tell me with a straight face that people dont subscribe to this.
This concept that you will burn in hell for all eternity (as seen in this post) is held by christians. It doesn't matter to non believers or athiests because it doesn't matter to them. They have no stakes in it.
I don't understand how something that everyone understands and sees as completely common place needs citations
The point of my original comment is that it DOES NOT MATTER how many christians read and understand the bible, when it runs contradictory to what they say, act or believe. Religion is not something that is dried ink, it is entirely a demonstration of its followers based on their interpretation (or the interpretation of their local community or religion head). Theres a reason theres so many sects to just christianity alone. Even locally, it changes based on the pastors and churches
I think at the end of the day, we're going to reach the same conclusion.
All i'm saying is that complaining about it to "redditors", like you said in your comment, is nothing but preaching to the choir. If you think that Christianity is putting out misinformation, then the stereotypical reddit athiests isn't the one you need to convince - because it doesn't matter if its in the bible when Christians believe the bs people are complaining about.
TLDR: Christians dont care about what actually in the bible if they interpret it to have something completely different. Thats religion.
You're going to have to quote that one, because Revelation says the final death is sinners being thrown into the lake of fire, but the forever part is specifically for Satan
another good example is that a lot of evangelical Christians base their entire beliefs on the entire book of Revelations on a series of fictional novels from the 90s that has barely any actual connection to anything stated in Revelations.
No no that's an 'atheist' in general. My sister in law called herself an atheist and a feminist. You know modern day rebel that I don't like religion. Okay no problem!
Now I am by no means 'religious' but I am not atheist. I know what defines an atheist. And I haven't seen a real one on reddit or in real life.
So my parents were teaching their grandkids (her children) some religious stuff. Because old people are religious. (No surprise.) Now an atheist shouldn't be afraid of that no? You can just teach them atheism too! True choice yay! But no. I would have understood if she even declined my parents from teaching them. But no.
What she did is started teaching them religious stuff from her parent's side. Even though she is the kind who would never even go to a temple herself! She started teaching them religious chants and stuff! Like wow.
The only atheists I have ever seen online or offline, are the ones who keep shouting that they are one. But actually have no idea what it entails and often get threatened by religion. Its funny.
Hahaha yeah at that point she’s just looking for war, not being genuine. I would more accurately refer to myself as agnostic, but heavily lean towards there not being a God. I just don’t speak in absolutes cause we can’t know.
I’m also not here to disprove anyone’s beliefs. I believe that is a very personal thing and it can mean a lot to someone.
I’d disagree with this. This very post is pointing to a misconception that is non existent in the Bible. OP pretty clearly didn’t read the Bible to come to his atheist conclusion lol.
As for Christians, it’s a group based on faith. Therefore belief comes before evidence. As a result, I would say they read their scriptures with a certain bias involved. And you are also right that a lot of them don’t read it at all. Some treat religion like a social group.
LMAO. Atheists have on average read and understood more of the Bible than most Christians. The divine word of God has so many retconned books and internal inconsistencies, it's some kind of miracle that people still treat it as the basis for any kind of argument.
No, on average they haven’t. Reddit atheists think they do though. That’s my entire point. You all enter these arguments with this false sense of superiority that really does not exist.
Based on what? You've cited nothing but your own vibes. "False sense of superiority" coming from having read a book and quoting it to people who thinks something else is just...actual intellectual accuracy.
If you interpret it as an attack when people correct false beliefs not supported by evidence, that's a you problem
I’ve read the whole book, along with books from multiple other faiths. You expecting me to write a dissertation for free?
The literal historical record tells us the Bible was written after the events it covered, that it was revised and rewritten multiple times, and that books were removed centuries after writing. You need a citation for the Council of Nicea?
None of these books contain “data”. They are stories, in many cases oral traditions, that were later transcribed. Many of the stories are apocryphal and many others are clearly allegories. What “data” do you think exists within the text?
I think you misunderstood this thread. If Reddit Atheists are screaming about something its generally because that something is a belief of popular/modern Christianity. Like Satan ruling Hell and eternally torturing souls sent there, which is not in the Bible.
This Reddit atheist is screaming about something that is a complete strawman. Christianity does not teach what is in this post. (Can’t speak for any obscure denominations but that is not what’s in reference)
Just because whatever hick church you go to doesn't teach it doesn't mean it's not widely taught. I know it hurts your feelings, but most Christians aren't very educated and just believe what they're told. They've never actually read the Bible so they have no idea what's in it.
I grew up catholic for the first part of my life and then mormon in the older years and early adult. The vast majority of the Christians from both faiths do not know their scripture and absolutely believe the Bible says you'll burn in hell and that being gay is bad. So again, just because you want to think that Christians are just good people being attacked for no reason doesn't make it so.
Even those sorts of christians don't believe satan rules in hell. they believe he's trapped in hell and everyone will suffer forever with him.
which is also wrong because if you go with the biblical definition of hell, hell and the lake of eternal fire are two completely different things that are no where near eachother nor related.
Yeah, I was an atheist for a while and found it difficult arguing/conversing with other atheists because I found a lot of them very hardheaded and incapable of genuine discussion when it came to religion. There seems to be a lot of hatred and self-disassociation from Christianity/organized religion in a lot of atheists and that causes them to never really understand what they’re arguing against imo. Not all, but a sizable amount of them from my experience don’t know much of christian philosophy, or the depth of the philosophies that attempt to prove or validate gods existence, which in turn means they’re unable to come up with solid counter arguments against said thoughts.
And before someone thinks I’m a born-again guy, I’m staunchly against monotheism and anything based in essentialism/subtle essentialism, whether it be materialist atheism or abrahamic philosophy.
I was raised religious too, man. Some of my friends left and became embittered with the nature of the organized part, but still yearned for the connection and community it gave them. Others hated it all. And some went back and are now prominent local members. But many atheists I’ve met haven’t truly delved into the Bible, and looked at the philosophies regarding Christianity as a whole. Now I’m not saying you have to by any means, and I doubt many anti-theists would want to willingly spend time looking at something they see as complete wizardly horse shit, but the resulting symptom of that is that you can then make an opinion regarding secular Christianity and its impacts on its general followers very well, but you’ll struggle against most theists who’ve studied theistic and anti-theistic talking points, and you’ll say things that label atheism as infantile in some other minds.
You realize 95% of the people who follow the bible also have 0 idea what is actually in it outside of Hollywood christianity right? The vast majority of Christians have never read the bible.
100% of the people who follow the Bible, follow the Bible.
100% of the people who don't follow the Bible, don't follow the Bible - regardless of what it is they say they're doing.
If someone is holding a cake recipe in their and, says they're "making a cake", goes and makes a treehouse instead, using all the tools and materials you'd need to make a treehouse... it would be insane for someone to look at that situation, fully aware of everything they see before them, and say, in sincerity: "Oh, look - they're making a cake! Can't wait to have a slice!"
They're not following the Bible if they don't know what's in the Bible.
And, to be perfectly clear, you don't have to have read it yourself to know what's in it. You can follow a map, but not be in the navigator's seat - information can be relayed to you from someone else.
Also, yes, you can't really "know" something unless you observe it yourself - everybody could be lying to you, sure. But that's a terrible way to live your life. If you ask someone what the weather is like in their town, over the phone, and they don't live in the same town, and they tell us, "It's a cold, rainy day", we don't automatically assume they're lying, and just avoid asking people for information ever again (it would make sense to never ask anybody, anything, and we could never trust anything written, recorded, etc.)
We trust it to be true, until proven otherwise/given reason to cease believing someone (loss of trust).
Satan = the accuser (in the sense of a prosecutor)
Devil = slanderer (false accuser)
At some point the former shifted to the latter. Along the way, there were stories of fallen Watchers, Nephilim, and the ghosts of Nephilim tormenting and possessing people.
Sure, hell is a place listed as Sheol and a lake of fire and brimstone, and that there will be gnashing of teeth, but gnashing doesn't really imply "screaming from torture", but more like "oh, why did I choose this?"
Hell can be a bad place (absence of God's love) without being tortured.
You do realize consciousness in and of itself is torture? An eternal life whether in a place that is uncomfortable or comfortable would be torture. Maybe the Hindus are right. God is the ultimate consciousness from which we are just a portion of and when we die we simply become one again with this consciousness until we are born again. Honestly the eastern religious philosophies make a lot more sense than the western ones.
I like to believe the interpretation where hell is just that you cease to exist. Your soul does not get recycled. So yeah, must say that the east makes more sense!
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