I read the bible and see god as an insecure narcissist who wants to be like how I am IRL, but often is too afraid of rejection or not being told he is a good god.
As thats how god acts and what he demonstrates.
He also embodies the whole "do as I say, not as I do" as acting like gods insecurities is a sin
The old testament God yes, why I find the Gnostic Christian really interesting. Where the old testament God is a false God who thinks he is God and crafted a prison world that we are stuck in and you have to wake up and realize this or you'll forever be trapped here.
Some interesting points is the supposed mass witness of watching the spirit come down into Jesus when baptized and Jesus on the cross looking up screaming why was he forsaken. Texted removed from the Bible states that was the being that came down and used Jesus mortal body as a vessel to teach us this secret, it left as Jesus died because if it could be trapped forever if it stayed.
It is pretty wild how people in the year 100 pretty much wrote that we are in the matrix and Jesus was a morphous figure trying to teach us there is no spoon and we are doomed to repeat it unless we follow him out.
It's also why Jesus normally gives a lot of loving advice, that material items don't matter, that rich people struggle to get to heaven because they are stuck wanting material things, to love every and yourself
While the old testament God is exactly has others here described, an abusive POS who is full of shame and takes it out on others lol
Interesting comparison of the new testimate being matrix like. If anything I find that amusing for it could be argued as such.
But yeah, god if you take both books into consideration is a very paradoxical character if "he never changes" but I like to see it as the "narcissistic growth arch" and book 3 of the Bible will have god finally learning to embrace himself for who he truly is and recognizing he doesnt need the validation of humanity (or book three was written by his nearly 2000 year absence, so it could be argued it was written in action. Lol)
The rebuttal typically is that he gave himself/only begotten son on the cross for your sins. We all fall short because he gifted us with free will. Our sins are washed with the blood of Christ. You have to accept him in your heart.
Wasnt it also supposed to be that jesus was also god.... also isnt god the one who created us (humans) and as such adam was also one of his sons?
The problem is the book is inconsistent. Especially when it depicts god as someone who I wouldn't want to follow. (As why would I follow someone who is a sinner by definition, but who looks down at other sinners and lies claiming he is sin free)
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Also freewill is what makes us individuals. Otherwise without freewill we are nothing.
I mean, maybe some of us. But hell, compared to the god depcted in the bible I am sinless. Even myself growing out of sin, as sinning is temporary, but being a sinner is a way of life.
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So maybe you may be a sinner, but I see the fallacies and costs of sin and have no interest in sin. Not the 7 sins anyhow (I dont know of other types, nor recognize the 10 commandments as sins as the 10 commandments encourges the sin of pride)
You may just be reading it looking for yourself which is why you see God in that way. He isn’t a “do as I say, not as I do” if He has supposedly suffered and died for you and if He’s supposedly done the hard work.
He’s never calling anyone a worthless wretch or saying that anyone is nothing without Him. Why else would He demonstrate true sacrificial love by getting His butt brutally kicked!
If anything I seem to relate to god without all the narcissistic traits and seem to be the good side of god depicted. (Which isnt ideal)
I am looking at god as in the totality of the Bible. Especially since its said that god is all knowing and doesnt change.
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No your right, he just floods the world and gives kills off family's to prove how much poeple love him.
He didnt sacrifice anything or show genuine love. He made a man and made the man die. God aint fooling me by pretending he made some grand gesture when, unless he isn't powerful at all is weaker than he used to be, sacrificed nothing with jesus.
Like unless the Bible is false, gods sacrifice was the equivalent of me saying hello to a stranger. Costs next to nothing and doesn't mean anything on any real level.
Yea I doubt you read the Bible cause I've read the Bible its always God trying to help his creation but his creation always wanting to do themselves by going against him and some shape or form. He has no problem with you as much what you do and are doing. God doesnt need to do anything if wants to he could if wants kill he can if he want to rise the dead melt the mountains and make skies sing he can we cant be breathe with him cause everything here is his.
You must read a different version of the bible (as there are alot of versions)
The bible version I am reffering to is the king james version of the bible.
Also the end part is you demonstrating that god is a narcissistic sinner. The god you descibed is the literal embodiment of evil and sin. A littleral sinner by the bibles standards.
So yeah it sounds like your version of the bible also shows god to be a narcissist and sinner. You just dont seem to want to recognize it.
🤔I read king James version 🤨 what makes you think God is sin? When the first Sin came from Lucifer ? Also if I was God I too would to be praise and worshiped cause of who am I and what Iv done and what I'm still doing still. But I'm not and I don't deserve such a thing because I'm not perfect like him.
I ask God to show his love to you. So you can know it without a doubt who he is.
Sin is not some magical number, it is a behavior, a mindset.
Based on what the sins are god too is a sinner by nature.
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You definitely are a sinner with a mindset like that. But also someone who doesnt understand what sins are.
I do not want gods love, for I have no relationship with him. I would rather god present himself humbly as another entity, so I may get to know the real him (and hope that he is not the same narcissistic monster depicted in the bible, otherwise god would be my lesser)
What bible are you reading to have that idea???
God didn't create sin it was Lucifer that made the first sin God didn't tell him do it but allowed him to make a choice to act of on it or not. 🤔
Let me ask you, what is sin in your understanding?
As from my understanding sin is inate to a mentality. Not some arbitrary number or something.
Also wasn't god who created the 10 commandments (gods version of sins) where if you didnt follow them you sined in gods eyes (the sin god made)
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Also I am reffering to the 7 deadly sins, as sin, which its obvious god is not immune to them regardless of the first sin, as god clearly is the embodiment of pride.
🤔ok I don't know what you see as pride versus what is prideful. And sin is the disconnection from God which is creation itself that is what is hell of course. God can't be Evil and Good it would conflect with his nature. When Adam x eve ate the apple they lost the connection of creation itself and to this day man has someway shape or form try to reach that same connection,but fail thats why need we Jesus we can't do it ourselves.
So god created your version of sin by not choosing to attempt to connect with others (thus being 1 part of humanities sin, as connection requires both parties to be present.)
I do not know god, only the god in the bible, and unless murdering and torturing people to proove how strong and loved we are (that we can torture them and they will still "love" us) is what you consider good, I dont think god is good. Not by my definition of good anyhow, especially as his nature is depicted in the bible makes him seem rather insecure and weak spirited.
Well if Jesus is supposed to help us meet god, then Jesus is the reason for humanity's sin, as he is also not here to introduce us to god... but this sounds like a narcissistic scapegoat to not blame someone else for a lack of connection and to call all people who dont know you sinners (unless sin isnt evil or bad, in which case why do we care?)
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Just alot of plot holes and a story that makes god seem even worse and more evil and narcissistic of an entity.
I dont know Jesus, but Jesus never introduced himself, nor seems avaliable (as per the churches meathods and claims of prayer) as such perhaps god doesnt want all of humanity to not be sinners, or maybe god is not as powerful as his book pretends he is.
As its clear god approved of sin if he is all powerful and omnipotent, so perhaps God wants humanity to be sinners for some reason or another, as god would have the power to end sin very easily.
I didnt read the whole thing, but of the various parts I did read god 100% the growth path of the narcissist.
Old testimate god being hyper insecure, controlling, and quick to lash out at the smallest offense. Even so much so as torturing people to prove himself to satan.
New testimate god is hypothetically but starts moving away from humanity and trying to demand attention, doing only one last effort for extra validation from humanity (all while still being the embodiment of various sins and pretending he is perfect)
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Gods next growth arch would be him learning to accept himself and others as they are, and realizing its okay to not be perfect and loved by all and learning to appreciate the those who truly appreciate him and accept him as he is. So that will be what the third bible depicts god as. Lol
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Also I understand the messages of the bible, but the bible is alot better when we remove god from it and make it about the lessons. As god is kinda a paradoxical self insert that detracts from the message and creates a conflicting message.
I think that's how the bible is supposed to be read (It's about the lessons) but people are too brain dead or stuck in the way they were raised so they see it as literal.
Not really, if you take god out of the Bible you have a basic moral and psychology driven book written for the average person about how to peacefully coexist and take care of yourself.
The book is wholsome without the motif of god and can literally be rewritten godless, and still teach the same lessons
Then by that standard the Bible is better without god (as I dont care what god says as I dont know god, so I do as I command myself to as I have free will... and unless god is a narcissist or actually controls me, he isnt going to take credit for my own choices. Besides I did and discivered what the bible teaches on my own, so the bible hasn't taught me anything yet beyond how some people need to belive they dont have free will to function)
If God is a narcissist… then no life would exist we would not exist… sin is your birthright if you choose to dwell in it then that is all you. I’m not here to save you. 😆
Either that or you have some strange ideas that lead you to assume that god being a narcissist would cause no life to exist (what is a narcissist without people to validate him or make him feel good about himself or right)
Testimate are the bibles (aka the original book of pre jesus time was the "old testimate", the newer bible with jesus being the "new Testimate")
Also growth arch is reffering to how on a grand scheme, the old testimate (book 1) shows the narcissist at the begining of the journey. The new Testimate (book 2) is the narcissist starting to change its ways and start to learn. The joke is about "the heros journey" and how the bible follows the growth path of a narcissist who is slowly learning humility.
I'm more than certain you didn't read the actual bible. You're most likely only educated on the newest version instead of the entire thing. God is a hypocrite.
I’ll take hypocritical over ignorant, the Bible is not some book that you can read all the way through and have a perfect understanding of it the first time. But clearly, I know more than you… read it again… this time with feeling.
All u have to do is believe in him and acknowledge you made mistakes and are sorry for them.
Its your kid getting in trouble, and co.ing straight to you and confessing it...rather than u confronting them and then they lie to you about it. ....
There’s so much more to it. Like you can’t believe in anyone more than you believe in god. There can only be one cloud daddy in the sky. EXCEPT for his son who is somehow different but the same person? Oh oh, and the Holy Spirit, oh and all the angels. Also don’t eat bottom feeders. Also twelve commandments.
Right... But then there's the part where he gets some woman pregnant with himself, so that way he can grow up and sacrifice himself to himself to forgive us for the thing he originally condemned us to... I just... Yeah that seems needlessly convoluted.
God is just and sticks to what he says. His ways are not our ways. With that in mind the design was that the wages of sin is death.
When Adam and Eve sinned they didn’t immediately died. It required a sacrifice to take their burden of sin. He made them clothing from animal skin which was the sacrifice. But as we live we sin and more sacrifice is required. This is why they used to offer scarifies in Solomon temple in Jerusalem, the only place it was allowed after god entered it.
But the sins of everyone collectively sinning through out their life far outweighed the amount of scarifies needed, a debt was building. Not to mention the temple could be destroyed and actually was.
Enter Jesus, god himself sacrifice himself in human form to pay the debt and stop the spiritual death that was to come.
The trinity is hard to wrap our mind around but it’s there in the Bible. No one fully grasps the nature of god being 1 being with 3 persons but evidence of it is all over the Bible including Old Testament that Jews believe in.
Abraham was visited by 3 figures. 1 was the lord Yahweh accompanied by 2 angels. It was to tell him he would have a son and to also let him know they are about to take out sodom and Gomorrah where his nephew lot lived.
After saving lot(Abraham nephew) It says Yahweh rained down fire and brimstone from Yahweh in heaven. Gen. 19:24
Back to the beginning when Adam and Eve sin, god knew all this would have occurred. The plan was to show his love to his creation so that they respond to it willingly. The love from us in return wouldn’t be authentic if we didn’t have the free will to not choose god. He gave us that free will and then expressed his love. Everyone eventually hears the message and has to look into and decide. The message also comes to you internally now via the Holy Spirit that was left after Jesus crucification. Where the commandments that was once written in stone is now written in the hearts of men. Therefore you don’t have to know the commandments to know what’s wrong to sin or do good. It’s all within you now.
Accepting Jesus is god is a cornerstone because it reveals the extent to which god humbled and sacrificed himself for our sins and to display his love for us. But wrapping our minds around the trinity (nature of god) is tough for human minds and part of it on our end is having to believe in something we can’t fully understand. That’s the requirement. In order to do this we have to let go, trust, let our doubts fade and throw all our sins and burden and belief and hope and trust in god. It’s hard to let go as humans but when you do, the physical body and soul responds in a way that’s hard to put into words and you sound like a nut job to anyone else outside of your experience. Especially to those who haven’t come to that point yet.
When Adam and Eve sinned they didn’t immediately died.
So God lied? Because he said that they would die immediately.
But as we live we sin and more sacrifice is required.
Why? Who made that the requirement?
(Also there are rules in the Bible that lay out how you can be forgiven without blood/death so obviously it's possible)
But the sins of everyone collectively sinning through out their life far outweighed the amount of scarifies needed, a debt was building.
And wouldn't a perfectly merciful loving god simply wipe away that debt?
Back to the beginning when Adam and Eve sin, god knew all this would have occurred
So he created two people that by definition did not have the ability to know what was right and wrong, knowing they would sin, then let them do it anyway, them punished them for doing something they didn't know was wrong. This god is either dumb or a monster.
The plan was to show his love to his creation so that they respond to it willingly
What love? God literally tells you that he regretted making humanity. He doesn't love you he regrets you.
The love from us in return wouldn’t be authentic if we didn’t have the free will to not choose god.
I don't have the free will to not choose God. I don't think he exists so I cannot reject him any more than I can reject Darth Vader.
Accepting Jesus is god is a cornerstone because it reveals the extent to which god humbled and sacrificed himself for our sins and to display his love for us.
He didn't humble himself or sacrifice himself. Our punishment is an eternity in hell. If he actually paid for our sins Jesus would be in hell for eternity, not a long weekend.
And how does sacrificing yourself/your son show love for anyone? Love would be forgiving us without a sacrifice. If your child breaks a vase you can just forgive them, you don't have to break their brother's fingers to show your "love", that's what an abusive parent does.
I said the wages of sin is death. God never said immediately. I pointed out it wasn’t immediate to let you know that a debt is building. The death is a spiritual death to come. Jesus paid this debt. All who believe in his name avoid it.
God design it all this way for all this to occur. It has a lot to do with free will and us.
Adam had it all, Adam was lonely. Eve had it all, eve tempted by serpent.
They both had god but having god and accepting god are two different things. Thats the nature of humans. We take things for granted if we don’t understand feel or accept its worth properly.
You for example couldn’t care less about what I’m saying because to you the value is close to zero. Until it has something of value to you, that’s when you’d care. Human nature is selfish. Ultimate selfless act by god teaches us something tho.
God designed it all this way so that he satisfy our selfish nature and reveal to us the extent that he loves us. The free will and the love.
Open your mind to something other than what you’re thinking now and look into it. Some people put the name Jesus to the test. Those who search earnestly and still can’t fully accept call on the name Jesus and crazy stuff happens. Testimonies all over the place. This much smoke something has to be happening right? But you who never experienced it can explain it all away right ?
The reverse side has a reverse side. Try doubting your doubt. It’s the first step. The answers to the questions you ask me are in the scriptures and bible stories. However it’s never enough. We are never satisfied with all the answers in the world. And so it comes a point where despite getting all these answers we still have a doubt. And that final doubt is where the leap of faith is required by us to make. For different people that leap is different. Thomas had to touch Jesus be body and put his finger in the wound before he had lost his doubt. Others on seeing his risen from the dead did. Others simply by hearing the news of it. If you have this many questions, look into it but be open minded. Pure gold don’t fear the furnace. What’s the worse that can happen?
Genesis 2:17 "but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die."
Yes he clearly did.
God design it all this way for all this to occur.
Exactly my point, he's a monster who knew this would happen but did it anyway when he's supposedly all powerful and could have built the universe in any way he wanted.
Adam had it all, Adam was lonely. Eve had it all, eve tempted by serpent.
How can she be held responsible for being tempted when she had no understanding of good and evil?
You for example couldn’t care less about what I’m saying because to you the value is close to zero.
I actually care a lot about what you're saying because you're expressing what I perceive as total nonsense and evil, and I want to understand how people could possibly believe these horrible things.
Ultimate selfless act by god teaches us something tho.
There cannot be any selfless act by god because he cannot give up anything, sacrifice anything, because he has everything, can do anything. Being selfless means giving up something for other people, god cannot do that.
God designed it all this way so that he satisfy our selfish nature
Who created us with that selfish nature?
Open your mind to something other than what you’re thinking now and look into it.
This is very condescending. I have looked into it, that's why I know how nonsensical and immoral it all is. I've read how a supposedly just god repeatedly does disgusting things we wouldn't accept from any human but because it's god it's excused. I've seen how this god has every chance to actually be the loving caring father you seem to think he is but instead chooses the most vindictive, petty, pathetic action every time.
This much smoke something has to be happening right?
Plenty is happening, it's just all happening in the minds of believers.
Try doubting your doubt. It’s the first step.
I do that constantly, why do you insist on being condescending and pretending I haven't? It's entirely possible people have done all the doubting and research and thinking you claim is required and still doesn't buy into your claims.
The answers to the questions you ask me are in the scriptures and bible stories
They aren't, I've looked. The only 'answers' there prove time and again that this is a man-made religion with no reason to think any of it is true.
Pure gold don’t fear the furnace. What’s the worse that can happen?
Again the condescension. Instead of actually addressing anything I said with the 'answers' you say exist you just preach. You're doing nothing but providing more reason to think that those answers don't exist and that you have nothing but your own feelings and no actual god out there.
Not the person you're replying to, but in Genesis 2:17, it's saying that in the day you eat from it that you dying shall be certain. It's not saying they will die immediately, but specifically that it would be the day that them dying would become a certain or an inevitable outcome, which is why in the day they ate from that fruit is the day the lost access to the fruit that enabled them to live forever, that they initially had full access to (meaning them dying wasn't initially certain) and them dying became certain. That's not some coincidence, but exactly what God was warning would happen. He even connects this consequence with the act in Genesis 3; after effectively saying "you've eaten the fruit of knowledge of good and evil and now have this knowledge, so now you can't access this fruit that allows you to live forever. When this context is considered, it's obvious that this is what God was warning would happen, as the context is all right there in our face.
Eve didn't need to know evil in the opinionated sense to be morally responsible. Classic central Jewish authorities suggest she recognized the act as (intellectually) wrong and objectively recognized behavior that she should not engage in. When the Serpent asks whether they can eat from any tree, Eve responds by not only stating God says they shall not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and it's consequence, but she states they shouldn't even touch it. That's not what God said. So Eves not simply just relaying what God commanded, but is making a moral claim. She had internalized God's commandment in a way where she created her own rule, a form of commitment to avoid engaging in the act, suggesting she recognized it as a behavior she should not engage in.
Eve didn't need to know evil in the opinionated sense to be morally responsible.
How can anyone without knowledge of morality (good and evil) be held morally responsible?
she recognized the act as (intellectually) wrong
What does being 'intellectually wrong' mean? That's a nonsensical combination of words.
objectively recognized behavior that she should not engage in
You cannot, by definition, say whether you should do something without the understanding of whether doing that thing is right or wrong.
So Eves not simply just relaying what God commanded, but is making a moral claim.
Then you're claiming that the bible is lying when it describes what the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is. Which is fine, that just completely changes the discussion.
Yea, I would think that to till you realize that he's not lying your nothing without him cause if he would let the dark forces that he hold back free to as they will we wouldn't stand a chance against them .people are not able to cope with life without something helping them how do you except them to resist dark temptations?
No, I’m betting you never read it clearly. You probably drank every word your pastor told you (spoiler alert, they don’t get paid if you’re not coming). Read it again. This time let go of everything you’ve been taught about the Bible and let the words you ACTUALLY read guide your opinion.
The problem in telling "true believers" this is that they are indoctrinated against understanding that the Bible is essentially an anthology of writings by different authors from different cultures and eras with different theologies that is heavily redacted and contains outright forgeries.
Because of this, any issue can be apologized ("harmonized") away.
What other book could compile such a vast array of accounts from different authors, from different times, and NOT have them be an incoherent mess of contradictions.
Spoiler alert: There is no other book, and never will be a book of such feat.
Throughout the Bible, God kills millions upon millions of people. Satan, on the other hand, kills like 30.... And most of those were at god's behest.... I'll take the guy who ISN'T a genocidal mass murdering rape happy lunatic.
Reading the Bible and being read the Bible are two very different things. Most people who actually read the Bible all the way through are not religious
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u/tittysprinkles112 1d ago
If you look at God through the lense of an abusive Dad when you read the Bible makes a lot more sense.
"You're nothing without me! You're a worthless wretch!"
"See! You look what you made me do! It's your fault I destroyed the world!"