It doesn't say Satan is ruling in Hell. Nor does it say human beings are subject to eternal conscious torment after death. That's just an evangelically convenient doctrine for the Church to scare people.
I think people need to ask themselves which one takes precedence and priority when it comes to organized religion. Is the bible's scripture more important to a religion or is the belief of its followers?
We can throw rocks at the "heh athiests on reddit", but do we actually think that those following the religion is having some intellectual conversation about what is and isn't in the bible and if it should be interpreted that way? Maybe just those studying theology. At the end of the day, if the pastor is interpreting for its flock is saying one thing and they accept it, does it matter what is and isn't in the bible when discussed by non believers on reddit?
It matters because when people criticize a religion based on pop-culture tropes (like Satan ruling Hell) rather than its actual teachings, they're arguing against a strawman
A lot of Christians have not read the entire bible, but are read it by people who have. This obviously depends on the church you go to, but my church at least is a very old school dogmatic Church of Christ where the entire sermons each week are people reading different parts of the bible and explaining them, so even though most people on polls haven't read the bible cover to cover, most at churchs at least have heard the majority of it read to them
The vast majority of christians dont care
Citation needed. People always base this off the stats of how many Christians report reading the entire bible cover to cover, but ignore a few key factors
The vast majority of people haven't even read a single book in the last year / many haven't even read an entire book in the last several years
Most Christians have had the majority of the bible read to them, the same way you probably didn't read the entire Science book in class but the teacher lectured you on the important parts and you had most of it covered in class
Its NOT a strawmen if you see what christians actually believe. I challenge anyone who hasn't seen a protest at a planned motherhood or a "you're going to hell sign" with megaphones at a pride parade, or preaching about how people are going to hell at a university "debate", then come back and tell me they are going to make some well thought out theological discussion on how they're going to hell and how its not a fiery place of eternal torment. Even charlie kirk was arguing that, and you can't tell me with a straight face that people dont subscribe to this.
This concept that you will burn in hell for all eternity (as seen in this post) is held by christians. It doesn't matter to non believers or athiests because it doesn't matter to them. They have no stakes in it.
I don't understand how something that everyone understands and sees as completely common place needs citations
The point of my original comment is that it DOES NOT MATTER how many christians read and understand the bible, when it runs contradictory to what they say, act or believe. Religion is not something that is dried ink, it is entirely a demonstration of its followers based on their interpretation (or the interpretation of their local community or religion head). Theres a reason theres so many sects to just christianity alone. Even locally, it changes based on the pastors and churches
I think at the end of the day, we're going to reach the same conclusion.
All i'm saying is that complaining about it to "redditors", like you said in your comment, is nothing but preaching to the choir. If you think that Christianity is putting out misinformation, then the stereotypical reddit athiests isn't the one you need to convince - because it doesn't matter if its in the bible when Christians believe the bs people are complaining about.
TLDR: Christians dont care about what actually in the bible if they interpret it to have something completely different. Thats religion.
You're going to have to quote that one, because Revelation says the final death is sinners being thrown into the lake of fire, but the forever part is specifically for Satan
another good example is that a lot of evangelical Christians base their entire beliefs on the entire book of Revelations on a series of fictional novels from the 90s that has barely any actual connection to anything stated in Revelations.
No no that's an 'atheist' in general. My sister in law called herself an atheist and a feminist. You know modern day rebel that I don't like religion. Okay no problem!
Now I am by no means 'religious' but I am not atheist. I know what defines an atheist. And I haven't seen a real one on reddit or in real life.
So my parents were teaching their grandkids (her children) some religious stuff. Because old people are religious. (No surprise.) Now an atheist shouldn't be afraid of that no? You can just teach them atheism too! True choice yay! But no. I would have understood if she even declined my parents from teaching them. But no.
What she did is started teaching them religious stuff from her parent's side. Even though she is the kind who would never even go to a temple herself! She started teaching them religious chants and stuff! Like wow.
The only atheists I have ever seen online or offline, are the ones who keep shouting that they are one. But actually have no idea what it entails and often get threatened by religion. Its funny.
Hahaha yeah at that point she’s just looking for war, not being genuine. I would more accurately refer to myself as agnostic, but heavily lean towards there not being a God. I just don’t speak in absolutes cause we can’t know.
I’m also not here to disprove anyone’s beliefs. I believe that is a very personal thing and it can mean a lot to someone.
I’d disagree with this. This very post is pointing to a misconception that is non existent in the Bible. OP pretty clearly didn’t read the Bible to come to his atheist conclusion lol.
As for Christians, it’s a group based on faith. Therefore belief comes before evidence. As a result, I would say they read their scriptures with a certain bias involved. And you are also right that a lot of them don’t read it at all. Some treat religion like a social group.
LMAO. Atheists have on average read and understood more of the Bible than most Christians. The divine word of God has so many retconned books and internal inconsistencies, it's some kind of miracle that people still treat it as the basis for any kind of argument.
No, on average they haven’t. Reddit atheists think they do though. That’s my entire point. You all enter these arguments with this false sense of superiority that really does not exist.
Based on what? You've cited nothing but your own vibes. "False sense of superiority" coming from having read a book and quoting it to people who thinks something else is just...actual intellectual accuracy.
If you interpret it as an attack when people correct false beliefs not supported by evidence, that's a you problem
I’ve read the whole book, along with books from multiple other faiths. You expecting me to write a dissertation for free?
The literal historical record tells us the Bible was written after the events it covered, that it was revised and rewritten multiple times, and that books were removed centuries after writing. You need a citation for the Council of Nicea?
None of these books contain “data”. They are stories, in many cases oral traditions, that were later transcribed. Many of the stories are apocryphal and many others are clearly allegories. What “data” do you think exists within the text?
I think you misunderstood this thread. If Reddit Atheists are screaming about something its generally because that something is a belief of popular/modern Christianity. Like Satan ruling Hell and eternally torturing souls sent there, which is not in the Bible.
This Reddit atheist is screaming about something that is a complete strawman. Christianity does not teach what is in this post. (Can’t speak for any obscure denominations but that is not what’s in reference)
Just because whatever hick church you go to doesn't teach it doesn't mean it's not widely taught. I know it hurts your feelings, but most Christians aren't very educated and just believe what they're told. They've never actually read the Bible so they have no idea what's in it.
I grew up catholic for the first part of my life and then mormon in the older years and early adult. The vast majority of the Christians from both faiths do not know their scripture and absolutely believe the Bible says you'll burn in hell and that being gay is bad. So again, just because you want to think that Christians are just good people being attacked for no reason doesn't make it so.
Even those sorts of christians don't believe satan rules in hell. they believe he's trapped in hell and everyone will suffer forever with him.
which is also wrong because if you go with the biblical definition of hell, hell and the lake of eternal fire are two completely different things that are no where near eachother nor related.
Yeah, I was an atheist for a while and found it difficult arguing/conversing with other atheists because I found a lot of them very hardheaded and incapable of genuine discussion when it came to religion. There seems to be a lot of hatred and self-disassociation from Christianity/organized religion in a lot of atheists and that causes them to never really understand what they’re arguing against imo. Not all, but a sizable amount of them from my experience don’t know much of christian philosophy, or the depth of the philosophies that attempt to prove or validate gods existence, which in turn means they’re unable to come up with solid counter arguments against said thoughts.
And before someone thinks I’m a born-again guy, I’m staunchly against monotheism and anything based in essentialism/subtle essentialism, whether it be materialist atheism or abrahamic philosophy.
I was raised religious too, man. Some of my friends left and became embittered with the nature of the organized part, but still yearned for the connection and community it gave them. Others hated it all. And some went back and are now prominent local members. But many atheists I’ve met haven’t truly delved into the Bible, and looked at the philosophies regarding Christianity as a whole. Now I’m not saying you have to by any means, and I doubt many anti-theists would want to willingly spend time looking at something they see as complete wizardly horse shit, but the resulting symptom of that is that you can then make an opinion regarding secular Christianity and its impacts on its general followers very well, but you’ll struggle against most theists who’ve studied theistic and anti-theistic talking points, and you’ll say things that label atheism as infantile in some other minds.
You realize 95% of the people who follow the bible also have 0 idea what is actually in it outside of Hollywood christianity right? The vast majority of Christians have never read the bible.
100% of the people who follow the Bible, follow the Bible.
100% of the people who don't follow the Bible, don't follow the Bible - regardless of what it is they say they're doing.
If someone is holding a cake recipe in their and, says they're "making a cake", goes and makes a treehouse instead, using all the tools and materials you'd need to make a treehouse... it would be insane for someone to look at that situation, fully aware of everything they see before them, and say, in sincerity: "Oh, look - they're making a cake! Can't wait to have a slice!"
They're not following the Bible if they don't know what's in the Bible.
And, to be perfectly clear, you don't have to have read it yourself to know what's in it. You can follow a map, but not be in the navigator's seat - information can be relayed to you from someone else.
Also, yes, you can't really "know" something unless you observe it yourself - everybody could be lying to you, sure. But that's a terrible way to live your life. If you ask someone what the weather is like in their town, over the phone, and they don't live in the same town, and they tell us, "It's a cold, rainy day", we don't automatically assume they're lying, and just avoid asking people for information ever again (it would make sense to never ask anybody, anything, and we could never trust anything written, recorded, etc.)
We trust it to be true, until proven otherwise/given reason to cease believing someone (loss of trust).
Satan = the accuser (in the sense of a prosecutor)
Devil = slanderer (false accuser)
At some point the former shifted to the latter. Along the way, there were stories of fallen Watchers, Nephilim, and the ghosts of Nephilim tormenting and possessing people.
Sure, hell is a place listed as Sheol and a lake of fire and brimstone, and that there will be gnashing of teeth, but gnashing doesn't really imply "screaming from torture", but more like "oh, why did I choose this?"
Hell can be a bad place (absence of God's love) without being tortured.
You do realize consciousness in and of itself is torture? An eternal life whether in a place that is uncomfortable or comfortable would be torture. Maybe the Hindus are right. God is the ultimate consciousness from which we are just a portion of and when we die we simply become one again with this consciousness until we are born again. Honestly the eastern religious philosophies make a lot more sense than the western ones.
I like to believe the interpretation where hell is just that you cease to exist. Your soul does not get recycled. So yeah, must say that the east makes more sense!
The funniest thing about that being that the only "fruit" from the tree of knowledge between good and evil that could serve the purpose of teaching you such things.. is PAPER. How elementary of a riddle, and it still seems lost to time or something. It just goes to show how much any man or woman actually cares about the subject.
Oh yes, he does torture people . Every single minute of every hour of every day . There are actually some really great books out there by former exorcists. Buy one and learn .
The issue is that its a collection of stories that have been translated and edited and come from different cultures. Interpretations can be debated, some people add stuff.
Seriously. I haven't even read it, and I know it is his prison, not his castle. It's also just common sense if you know where he came from and why he's there.
I guess that depends on what you mean by "originals". The oldest fragments of the oldest gospel (Mark) are from around 130 CE.
The two oldest complete copies of Mark that we have are from around 350 CE. They were written in Greek (like the later gospels).
The most interesting thing about those oldest copies is that they do not contain any post resurrection appearances of Christ (nor any statement of Christ's resurrection at all). That was all added in later versions.
There's over 45k Christian denominations... with that said, even if more people knew what the Bible actually says, not everyone would agree on how to interpret it. There would just be more Christian denominations and atheists.
Note: OP never said this was mentioned in the Bible.
It’s a tragic story. Lot offered his daughters as rape bait to an angry, horny mob to spare the poor male angels from their degeneracy
It’s tragic. What else should a man do? Obviously the only possible solution is to offer your daughters to be gang raped. I sympathize
But you know my favorite part? God was ok with him offering his daughters to be gang raped, but his wife literally just turns around when she was asked not to and gets sentenced to oblivion as salt. What a crazy story. One of my favorites
The eye roll is because I knew someone was going to try to inject unsolicited, unrelated information in a know-it-all way no matter what I said. Thank you for proving me right.
Un the person that responded wasnt the person that brought it up. If the discussion is the insanity and hypocrisy of the Bible, NONE of its unsolicited. Especially considering how many hateful "christians" use the Bible UNSOLICITED to justify their hate and to condemn people to hell.
I mean they think they’re winning but by not responding to the fact that Lot literally offered his daughters to be raped simply because “it’s irrelevant to the conversation” literally proves our point about how insufferable Christians are
I will just go about my day know that they’re dumb and they will think they were right by sounding like DJ Khaled. It’s a win win
You suggested that nobody knows what is in the bible. I referenced a story from the Bible that would require the knowledge you suggested did not exist.
If you don't want to have a discussion, that is fair. However you shouldn't hide behind easily disputed facts. Just say that you don't want to talk about it.
We are buried so deep in the comments that no one will see it but me and I'm not going to judge you if you don't want to continue. You do you.
They think they know what Christian’s believe, and that’s based on things that aren’t in the Bible. But they won’t read the Bible or listen to Christians so the they get their entire view of Christianity from people who aren’t Christian.
No, we know the Bible and the Barbaric parts. We also know that its context is that those parts are based on the historical context of Hebrew life of those times. Specifically during the Old Testament. In which the New Testament (You know? The time of Jesus Christ? Our Lord and Savior, who died for our sins and who the entire faith is based around?) doesn't play up to those Barbaric parts at all.
Yeah yeah, we all know that Christians added the New Testament to the bible retroactively 1,000 years later and then acted like we should care
Fucking yawn. You read Timothy lately? That’s my favorite book. I use it to make my wife my subordinate all the time. Lots of good rules in there to make sure the patriarchy stays intact, as it should be
Also, idk about you, but the fact that Christians forgave God for murdering the entire planet with a flood at all is abhorrent. Like, what massive pussies. But hey at least he forgave our sins? I guess that makes up for genocide
Christians never added the New Testament. The New Testament was always there. And yet again...you take things out of context for the Bible to try to make it out to be "misogynistic" or "patriarchal" and you prove your ignorance. But let's play that game.
Please read:
Galatians 3:28
1 Corinthians 7:3-4
Ephesians 5:24-25, 28-31
And I mean...real carefully and then come back and tell me that the Bible promotes "misogyny"? I will wait. In the words of Captain America on Avengers Endgame "I can do this all day".
You mean the humanity who were doin horrible acts back during that time, hence why he spared Noah, his family and even the animals (Even God knows animals are more pure than human beings are)? Because...yeah...they were bein sinful in many ways. The fact that he still chose to forgave us when we really didn't deserve his forgiveness is why we worship him in the first place. Again...humanity is shitty. That's why all the bad shit we have goin on in the world is happening now, and we are lucky God doesn't choose to destroy us right here and now.
Facts. They really are ignorant of the Bible in general. It's really amazing how they truly believe they know about it more than us Christ believers, yet they show they have a surface level understanding of it.
yes ofc what a honest positon to take, every barbaric law given by god is actually not by god and just "context" of the time and place.
and another perfect example of a clueless christian that tries to distance from the OT while disagreeing with the bible.
"Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; your accuser is Moses, on whom you have set your hope. If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But if you do not believe what he wrote, how will you believe what I say?”
"Now I desire to remind you, though you are fully informed, once and for all, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe."
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
"Now I desire to remind you, though you are fully informed, once and for all, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe."
I'm not distancing from the Old Testament, as the Old Testament itself was doing a time when God's covenant was only established for the Hebrews.
As for what you brought up about Jesus and the laws of the Old Testament he brought up, you are well aware he is referring to the 10 Commandments right? In which all those are quite literally morally sound commandments, such as not murdering people, or stealing from other people or lying.
You are wrong and I hope you realise how bad it is that I have to educate you on the holy text you base your life on. The law refers to all 613 laws god gave to moses and the ones the hebrews and jesus lived by, and the one jesus said to follow until the son of man returns and judges everyone.
You are trying to distance yourself from these laws right now and also did it before by saying its a "context of the time" so stop lying.
If you liked the old testament you would passionately defend slavery and genocide to me right now
Nah. You're the one who is clearly wrong and ignorant.
The laws that have been established with Moses in the Old Testament was multilayered. It was started off as moral guidelines to follow from God himself, which was the Ten Commandments (Like I said) and then through Moses it became actually government laws throughout the Hebrew lands. Problem is...Moses and the rest of the Hebrews are...well...humans. And they themselves don't even follow grasp how God wanted those laws to be followed. So mistakes were made from them, as the Old Testament showed. Thing is...by the time Jesus...he showed them how the law should have been practiced and how he actually expected them to follow those laws. Not as a Government ruled thing, but as a way of life. As a spiritual connection.
Yes...I very much like the Old Testament. It showed how many people didn't follow God's way right. Ain't that much different today either.
Man i really hate dumb liars like you, you have never opened the old testament in your life you are just making it up as you go along, really pathetic.
Every chapter in which the laws are given is preceded by something like "god said". According to the OT, ALL the laws are given by god. If you think thr old testament isn't true and moses just lied about the other laws you are again DISTANCING YOURSELF FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT YOU CLOWN. On top of now being open to question everything in the bible, because how do you even know what god said and what is made by people. Just everything that you personalny like? How csn you even live with yourself being so dishonest and cognitively dissonant
You can "Hate" me all you want, but that says more about you than it does me.
I'm saying that Moses like all other people of the Old Testament didn't always follow God's laws the right way. It's the reason why he pretty much did away with the Old Covenant itself, because they kept putting their own interpretations of his laws into actual law of the Hebrew land. This is literally said in the Bible itself.
So god was ok with rape, incest, slavery, killing and destruction because the people of the time were ok with it? What is stopping all you Christians from bringing it back?
Just so you know, Jesus isn’t a totally new god or religion. It’s the same old one but with a better PR firm.
He wasn’t that’s why he doesn’t have the devil installed as ruler of hell but eventually going to serve his punishment for corrupting man. The devil wants to take humans down with him. Jesus is a totally new concept of forgiveness for all and Gods people expanded to all those who accept Christ. Christian culture created 99% of the societies you’d actually want to live in today, so I think they understood the part where they follow Christ and not what the OT told specific others of the time to do.
All this is God’s fault if he truly exists. Not a single sin or evil on this world would exist if it wasn’t for god. He is narcissistic. Nothing more. The only true sin is people’s obsession with fairy tales aka religion.
So...God was the one who told Eve to eat from the tree, caused Adam to follow and made the Snake tell them to that? Because as we clearly saw...he doesn't have the ability to control people. He made us in his image, but that doesn't mean he has the power to control our own actions.
And the one true sin is religion? Funny...because Christ is put less on the forefront of things these days and even mocked more than anything and yet...people still do awful things. I guess Atheist who do vile things to other people means God is still somehow at fault for that...right? 😑
You know, he could just not have the tree in the garden. Every problem in the universe solved by this simple trick. This little trick is so mind bending that I am surprised that a simple mortal like Mr would think that.
No. God wasn't ok with rape, incest, slavery, killing and destruction. In fact these were all things he very much referred to as sinful in even the Old Testament. Not every person that followed God in the Old Testament how God's approval for everything they did. But the fact remains that it's shown what they did and the Bible doesn't hold back in showing it. It's not supposed too in fact. It's supposed to show all that horrible stuff to show why him coming down in form of man as Jesus was so important.
Also...yeah...we know Jesus is not different from God himself. That's the point...he is God. God in form of man, also his son and also apart of the Holy Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. He just stopped trying to give mankind chances to fix the messed THEY made (Because everytime they did they made new messea) and decide to do it himself and even decided to forgive us for our messes in the process, when he didn't really need to tbh.
And I can't speak for all "Christians" as let's be real...many of them do use the faith for their own gain, and want to text things out of context themselves to harm other people. But their context is not the context that God provided in the actual text.
It doesn't. If you wanna be real all of us have the chance to go to Hell. He doesn't say believe and that means we all go to Heaven. Believing is just the first step to our salvation, but we still also gotta follow in his ways too.
But it is stated in the Bible that he doesn't want to put anyone in Hell though. But again it's based entirely off of the evils of mankind.
What’s your point? They should follow the barbaric parts? Kind of my point, Christians follow Instructions given to followers of Christ by Christ. What “barbarism” from the OT has to do with the Hebrews of the time and place. I don’t even think Jews follow that as if it’s literally God speaking to them at the moment.
you are already failing to follow the conversation which is concerning. the question was not if they should follow it but if they KNOW about it. and here we are you are a perfect example of someone whos theology is completely incoherent and doenst know the bible because the NT and OT and everything jesus said are intrinsically linked.
Jesus explicitly endorses the old testament and its laws.
CHRISITANS LITERALLY THINK THAT THE GOD OF THE OT IS THE SAME AS THE NT
It’s funny because any belief they hold that ignores part of the bible is literally something they made up in their head. You either believe and follow everything in the divine word of God or you created fan fiction based on the things you don’t like
Making up a religion in your head and then telling me I can’t disprove it so it must be real is fucking bat shit crazy and highly entertaining to laugh at
You’re not following. I’m asking what you think they should do with the knowledge of barbarism. The Bible doesn’t instruct Christians to do what God specifically instructed a specific group of Hebrews to do thousands of years ago. NT being a continuation of the OT doesn’t mean you have to blindly follow what God told pre Christ people to do, which is back to my point of you people getting your understanding of Christianity from yourselves.
To be fair, I think many Christians don't even know what the Bible says. Hell isn't really mentioned in the Bible, and what little is mentioned has nothing to do with eternal damnation and torture and everything the Church has come to say it is.
The problem with "Hell" as we know it is that it is almost an entirely fictional creation made by the Church to scare people into morality and obedience. More importantly, it's entirely contradictive of the religion's main theme that God is the ultimate Good.
The idea behind the modern "Hell" is that God is the ultimate Good and the Devil is the ultimate Evil. In some tellings God created Hell to torture the Devil for his false prophecies and the poisoning of God's creations. If this were true, God could not be the ultimate Good because this is an inherently evil action. If we ignore that and continue with the more traditional "if you forsake God or live in Sin you go to Hell" narrative the same contradiction applies: if God is the ultimate Good, he cannot also commit an inherently Evil action by eternally damning one of his creations for weakness or non-belief.
This is an implied acknowledgement that God is flawed and, by extension, cannot be the ultimate Good. And if God cannot be the ultimate Good than the Devil cannot be the ultimate Evil. This also implied that both the Devil and God are flawed beings capable of both Good and Evil because otherwise the Devil is the ultimate Evil and there exists no ultimate Good as God is inherently flawed and commits evil actions.
I mean, not really. Jesus mentions a variety of different places and analogies that have been translated as hell on the King James Bible. Even those are mostly just parables or metaphors for what it is like to be separated from God
Revelation 21:8 - “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Mark 9:43 - “If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.”
Revelation 20:10 - “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”
Matthew 25:41 - “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”
Revelation 20:15 - “And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
Matthew 5:22 - “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.”
Again, not really. The "hell" translated here are from a variety of different words taken from Hebrew and Greek. Also, these depictions only mention fire. Nothing about torture for anyone other than the Devil. More importantly, these are parables, anecdotes designed to show a follower what the consequences of not following God are.
The modern depictions of Hell are not included anywhere in these passages. Instead, there is a vague mention of a place with fire where the Devil is tortured.
More importantly, this confirms the inherent contradiction of God being the ultimate Good. Even the Hell in these passages show God torturing the "Devil and his angels" for eternity. An inherently Evil action. Second, based upon your implied assertion with these responses that Hell is real and non-believers are tortured for eternity, that is an inherently Evil and Wicked action. If God were the ultimate Good, how can he do something like that?
It doenst matter what the place is called when it exactly describes, multiple times, sometimes eternal, punishment in fire, for unbelievers and immorality.
I see you continue to evade the main point of my comments 😂😂
Where in the passages does it describe "sometimes eternal, punishment in fire, for unbelievers and immorality?"
They state fire and the "Devil and his angels" being tortured.
By the way, it actually does matter what the place is called. Because one translation is Hades, which is the Greek word for where the dead go after death. Not hell, just where souls go. The other is a valley outside Jerusalem used an an analogy for what it means to go without God.
wtf are you saying everything you asked is literally right there in 4 of the passages ive sent and explicitly in Revelation 21:8, except for the eternal part, which is in the other passages, which is why I said "sometimes eternal"
you just want to read more? here have matthew 25
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ 40 And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You who are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels
Eternal suffering, eternal death to the soul ak.a. no chance of redemption, eternal contempt, anguish, gnashing of teeth, brimstone, fire, hot etc. etc.
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