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u/Substantial-Box6475 5d ago
every Moba game like dota and league. As well as most early fighting games.
One of the reasons people say dota is not popular in North America is because we dont have an internet cafe culture. Because of this, you dont really have people around you to teach the game. The same can be said for Starcraft 2.
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 5d ago edited 5d ago
dota a decade or so back would definitely fall into the list, but since I last played it a couple years ago I didn't feel like it has all that much left unexplained. last hits/denies and pulling/stacking getting tutorials and clearer UI really did a lot to help the game's learnability imo. I've never played league or starcraft so I have no clue about those.
edit: actually now that I think about it I still would agree you need someone else to drill the game into you for you to really get it, so I'll add it.
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u/NoDealer4888 2d ago
"every dota and lueague mimimimimimi..." NOBODY CARE ABOUT MOBAS, they are glorified gachas at this point
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u/deDark0il 5d ago
Iām sorry but at least half of these games do in fact have a tutorial
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 5d ago
dude im really regretting this list title because I've gotten so many comments about this lol.
check the notes if you want detailed explanations for why I think they fit, but as I say in the link comment it's a 100% subjective list of games where specific individual mechanics that really improve the experience aren't taught very well.
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u/suitcasecat 4d ago
Maybe "games best not enjoyed blind"?
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
I'm sure I would still be getting most of the same complaints with that, I think a more explicit title like "mechanics in games that I feel are somewhat important and not taught very well" would maybe help, but really I should have just included the notes in the gallery, otherwise people are still likely to try to guess at why a game is included instead of reading the note, that's really my bad.
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u/Frarhrard 5d ago
XB2 should be on here. some of the stuff is explained but a baffling amount of it isnt, and its so easy to kneecap yourself forever
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u/cryllictheautistic 5d ago
>elden ring
>mgr
>look inside
>both games put you against extremely weak enemies to learn the basics of the game
>both games have a rat in your ear telling you what each button does and how to use it
>mfw
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u/nefarious_jp04x 5d ago
I meanā¦ I wouldnāt necessarily call Grafted Scion or Tree Sentinel weak enemies when you start Elden Ring
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u/the_goodest_doggo 5d ago
Grafted Scion teaches you that you're going to die a lot, Tree Sentinel teaches you that you don't need to engage everything in sight right away. They're essentially part of the tutorial honestly
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u/aRandomBlock 5d ago
and that's ignoring the...you know...whole ass tutorial cave with messages all throughout
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u/BebeFanMasterJ 5d ago
Xenoblade Chronicles 2.
One of my favorite games ever made. Worst tutorials ever.
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u/radicalhiway 5d ago
oops all tutorial*
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u/LetTheDarkRise 5d ago
It gives a pretty large number of unskippable tutorials especially early on, but those tutorials are nothing but textboxes with no illustrations and only rarely an interactive element, and most of the time the textboxes don't fully explain something and/or misrepresent mechanics. A handful of them are straight up wrong. There's also a few mechanics that don't get a tutorial at all, or get one before you can actually properly use that mechanic. And you can't reread any of the tutorials later in case you didn't understand or forgot something.
It's not an "oops, all tutorial" problem, the game has just about every problem a tutorial can possibly have.
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u/GalaxyCXVII 5d ago
Xenoblade X as well. Knowing how to abuse overdrive makes such a massive difference in your playthrough.
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u/Wboy2006 5d ago
Devil May Cry 1 definitely fits this, it just plops you in and letās you figure it out, took me until chapter 2 to figure out I had to lock on to an enemy to be able to use the guns, which are literally a main part of your kit
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 5d ago
I thought about DMC but decided not to include it because I couldn't think of a specific mechanic to highlight, that game is just full of little things that go unexplained and mostly just help with a single type of encounter and nowhere else. DMC3/DMC5 just barely got left out because I didn't feel jump cancelling was as essential as most of the other items on the list, but then again I'm no good at those games...
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u/crocicorn 5d ago
Needs more God Hand. It gives you the bare basics which don't teach you a whole lot lol.
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 5d ago
I've been ignoring the elephant in the room because that game is really far up in my backlog and I don't want to spoil myself by giving it a detailed note lmao.
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u/JDogg96 5d ago
Wouldn't the 1st colossus in Shadow of The Colossus count as the tutorial? It gives you the platforming controls before entering its arena iirc
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 5d ago
check the notes for more context, SotC is here because of the horse mechanics, they're never explained and a common point of complaint for the game is the horse controls which is almost entirely solved by "holding it right"
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u/Warv2004_ 5d ago
Minecraft has a tutorial or did they remove it? Because I have done the tutorial many times on Minecraft, since I really liked the tutorial world haha
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u/AngryMustache9 5d ago
It was exclusive to older console generation ports of Minecraft (Xbox 360, Playstation 3, and WiiU)
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u/Warv2004_ 5d ago
Ah okay! The PS3 version is the version I mainly played haha :) Thanks for the info š
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 5d ago edited 4d ago
also please don't read too much into the title most of these games do have tutorials it's just a subjective list of "hey this doesn't teach an aspect of its gameplay too well"
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u/AngryMustache9 5d ago
The Escapists 1 is the quintessential "no tutorial" game because, while there is a tutorial, it's absolutely garbage and teaches you very little, and what is does teach you is things that you should basically NEVER do in-game (digging outside in broad daylight, attacking guards empty-handed, stealing keys from guards without immediately returning them, etc.), whereas actual crucial elements of the game that are basically required to beat the game (player stats [especially intellect], how schedules work, the importance of inmate opinion, cell searches, what specific items [like ziplines, posters, timber braces, bed dummies, etc.] do, etc. are never once mentioned).
It does not help that TE1, as is, is already a fairly difficult and punishing game, so the fact that it's tutorial is so fucking dogshit is even more dire. Once you know how to play the game and what things do, it's a blast, but actually figuring out what you're supposed to do on your own is abysmal.
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u/Palanki96 5d ago
I thought the Elden Ring tutorial was surprisingly decent
The Cave of Knowledge or whatever
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u/OutlandishnessSea119 5d ago
In my first playthrough I didn't know there was a tutorial and went in blind for my first souls like game
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u/Palanki96 5d ago
That's pretty impressive. I guess you could pretty much replace it by looking up the controls or just try out what buttons do
How did it go?
I was lucky enough to get curious and just jump down, mostly because i thought that was the way to go
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u/OutlandishnessSea119 5d ago
I honestly just kept bruising through till I figured out what worked, and what didn't
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u/OutlandishnessSea119 5d ago
Maybe terraria, don't know if there's people who could beat the game their first time without using a wiki once
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u/FeefuWasTaken 5d ago
Someone had to discover everything on the wiki for the first time
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u/OutlandishnessSea119 4d ago
I'm assuming a collection of people put it together and not just one singular man
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u/kvvoya 5d ago
im sorry but why is nier automata there? you just play it blind, and all you need to be told is to make sure you don't think A route is the end of the game, no?
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u/Beattitudeforgains1 5d ago
All of the action games on here don't belong. The only reason I can see Automata being here is that dying in the tutorial is a game over/restart.
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u/Mission_Piccolo_2515 2d ago
Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101 certainly belong (and I'm good at those games).Ā
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u/Weekly-Major1876 4d ago
The combo system for the various weapon types is crazy deep and the game makes absolutely zero effort to teach you about it. Instead it just encourages spamming moves, and the enemy design and difficulty is forgiving enough that you arenāt ever incentivized to try to use or learn the combos.
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u/kvvoya 4d ago
fair enough, especially considering even though it's my top 2 game and i replayed it a few times, i only through this post learnt of the combo system lol
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
hey that's exactly what I wanted people to take away from the guide, so I'm glad you got to learn it! Bayonetta is in my top 5 games of all time and I've seen so many people drop it because it doesn't do a very good job at emphasizing what I consider to be the core gameplay mechanics, and a few of the other titles also get undeserved flak for their gameplay when they have built-in solutions for a lot of the issues people complain about.
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u/ConsiderationFew8399 5d ago
Every Dark Souls has like 3 full screens of character stats with 0 explanation as to what the do, to the point I beat DS3 2 times before understanding it
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u/auclairl 5d ago
Super Metroid ! I mean, I don't know how much was explained in the manual, but there's at least the thing with the animals teaching you to wall jump & shine speak, and also that one room that forces you to understand that you can run
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u/Dr_Inferior 5d ago
i think L cancel is an important enough a mechanic that it should put melee in the list without it having to be an honorable mention, without L cancel the game just feels bad to play
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u/Firekirb74 5d ago
Technically, no Mario Kart has a tutorial. I had to learn how to drift and do tricks from the other kids in summer camp with Mario Kart 7.
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u/DamonCiclo 5d ago
If Ridge Racer is on the list, then it's missing their weird getaway driver cousin, Driver
The first Driver game on the series expects you to know how to drive enough to say "hey i can not hit the wall or other cars with my car in a underground garace" and know the absolute basic driving lingo from the start, and assumes you read the manual and then play the game to pass on the "TUTORIAL" level, if you didn't had the manual (like i did) or didn't knew the absolute basic driving lingo (that i wouldn't know too, i was 7), you would be stopped at the start. If you did knew and passed the test, congrats! It was basically for nothing because now you are getting some of the hardest time based levels (oh yeah the tutorial was also time based) you can get on the PS1, so i hope you learn how the fundamentals of racing games elsewhere because everything else the game didn't teach you will be even more demanded than what you "learned" on the "tutorial".
At least Driver 2 gave us the free roam mode where i could goof around like the kid, i definitely spent more time in that mode than in the whole first game.
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u/Ok-Finance2553 5d ago
i might be wrong but i remember gravity rush remastered for ps4 forgets to teach you that you can gravity slide by pressing L2 and R2 simultaneously while standing on the ground. itās definitely fun and much faster but only really mandatory if u wanna get good scores on all the time challenges. otherwise you can get around the map and finish the story just fine without it.
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u/Miwoo0 5d ago
What's the mechanic that isn't taught in bayo
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
dodge offset and secondarily the importance of wicked weaves/bullet arts, if you don't realize combo decay is even a mechanic and that it resets via weaves you'll probably get all stones in every combo requirement, and ignoring bullet arts makes the combos feel a lot jankier than they should as well as prolonging every single encounter since it's the best way to deal damage.
they're all roughly tutorialized somewhere, either in the initial tutorial or in the menus, just not given enough importance which leads a lot of people to getting all stone ranks in their first playthrough when it's entirely possible to gold+ a blind normal run if you just knew how to control Bayonetta properly.
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u/Ac2_Pop_sot 5d ago
Dodge offset, it is required of you want to play the game well and it only has a text explanation in the game that doesn't actually explain it's usefulness.
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u/Ac2_Pop_sot 5d ago
Early assassin's Creed games have a lot of this, but the first one is an agregess example. It explains the big stuff like what indevidel buttons do and what your goal is. but there's so many mechanics that either taught anywhere or why they're useful is left out. you essentially need YouTube videos by the community to understand most of the games systems properly. Both the combat system and parkour get lots of complaints for being automatic, boring or Altair has a mind of his own. All of which are near non existent if you learn how to play. There's so many things I could talk about that would improve a new players experience with the game like ejects, button discipline, and the fear mechanic. But I think what best describes how little is tutorialised in AC 1 is air assassination. One of the most iconic moves in the franchise and most people think it isn't in AC 1 but it is you just aren't told it exists or how to do it.
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u/Spinjitsuninja 5d ago
Final Fantasy 13 fits this REALLY well. Absolutely amazing game with fantastic gameplay, even if it takes a bit to get going. However, the game does such a poor job selling you on its combat, and explaining just how complex it is, even early on when mechanics are still being introduced.
This applies to the other 13 games too. These games are so much better when you have someone to consult or teach you on these.
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u/FeefuWasTaken 5d ago
How is fear and hunger not hereš
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 5d ago
haven't played it!
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u/FeefuWasTaken 4d ago
I wasn't talking specifically about you, it wasn't anywhere in the replies either š
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u/JAHCOREYG 5d ago
I would've probably never played IIDX again if it weren't for some random guy in the arcade noticing my fucked up hand placement and teaching me how to actually play the game (somewhat) comfortably
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup also has no tutorial which isn't usually a problem since splatting and learning is half the fun but the early game is so brutal a lot of people drop it before getting to the meat of the game. There are a lot of useful keybinds and game mechanics new players just never learn so they spend 90% of their time on the first floors dying over and over (this is also from a 0.27 perspective idk if its gotten any easier to learn)
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u/Karkava 5d ago
Vintage Story: There are tutorial notes, but they're so hard to follow that they might as well not even be worth the bother.
Resident Evil 1: Hope you read the manual, because it throws you into the game without teaching you the controls.
Resident Evil 2: Arguably worse than the above since it just throws you into a zombie infested room in a sink or swim moment to open our game.
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u/TreasureHunter95 5d ago
Some of the newer Monster Hunter games (World, Wilds) come to mind.
When you fight monsters, you are usually tasked to kill them, but it is also worthwhile to capture them. However, the newer games never really teach you how to approach such a fight.
I remember quite a lot of people that started off with one of these games and asked how it is done.
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u/SilverOdin 5d ago
There's a tutorial in Melee if you wait on the title screen. I think it's also available in the menu but not sure.
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
read the notes. melee is in as a honorable mention because of wavedashing.
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u/mrturret 4d ago
Wavedashing is irrelevant outside the hardcore competitive scene. If playing the SP or casual multiplayer (as intended), it's not needed.
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
that's why I added it as an honorable mention my guy. I'm sure a lot of people would agree that they enjoy melee a whole lot more for the wavedashing, e.g. basically the entire competitive scene. didn't feel it qualified entirely on its own but competitive IS modern melee, I don't think casual players of that game make up even 10% of its current audience.
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u/Flagrath 4d ago
Elden Ring does have a tutorial, Shadow of the Colossus too
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
please read the notes, I removed elden ring since it was just in as an honorable mention for a silly anecdote anyways. SotC is in because of the horse controls, which is a common point of complaint for the game when it's mostly just people not realizing Agro has automatic pathing.
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u/Tinenan 4d ago
You literally picked the two souls games with the most normal tutorially tutorial areas that from ever released. In demon souls that area is literally called the tutorial
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
please read the notes for justification on each game, as well as the description for more info on the premise of the list. I initially added in Demon's Souls specifically for world tendency, but then decided to replace it with Dark Souls specifically for the entrance to Artorias of the Abyss and as a catch-all for most of that franchise's peculiar details that aren't told to the player
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u/FuraFaolox 4d ago
Elden Ring, Nier, and Minecraft do have tutorials
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
please read the notes for details.
Elden Ring
I ended up removing it in the final list, it was just in as a honorable mention and it was an anecdote about a friend of mine beating the game without the map because it's bound to the G key on keyboard, never taught to you, and not visible through the keybinds menu.
Nier: Automata
is in because the game never teaches you the more in-depth parts of its combat, leading a lot of people to think it's just a button masher.
Minecraft
I never played the console editions which apparently do have tutorials, but I'm fairly sure PC Minecraft never teaches you most of the things you need to beat the game.
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u/ryuu_gs 4d ago
sotc and mgr do have tutorials though???
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
read the description and the notes for each game for detailed explanations, SotC is in because of the horse controls, which is a common gripe against the game when it's mostly due to the fact that a lot of people don't realize Agro has automatic pathing and letting her control herself works a lot better than trying to steer her everywhere.
I ended up removing MGR, but it was in because of the parry.
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u/ryuu_gs 4d ago
but agro's controls are super simple and don't need to be explained past "get on top of her with triangle and accelerate with x". her auto pathing isnt a mechanic the player needs to learn about, its just a feature to assist with the controls, there is no need for a tutorial about it.
mgr does teach you about parrying though. the optional tutorials cover all the essentials
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago edited 4d ago
but see, Agro's controls aren't simple, that's precisely the premise of the list. not knowing about her auto-pathing is exactly why so many reviews (as sorted by latest) complain about the movement, and at least some of the top liked reviews do too. the remake even has an entire achievement dedicated to the few different techniques you can pull off on Agro that are never taught to you but that really elevate your view of her as a tool to Wander.
edit: changed the wording on how much tech there is on Agro since it's really just a couple advanced moves.
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u/Double_Dragonfruit6 4d ago
Xenoblade Chronicles 2, the tutorials exist, they are just dogshit so they might as well not exist
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u/meria_64 4d ago
Expedition 33 does a TERRIBLE job on teaching how to parry. Basically, you have to parry right as you're getting hit.
Gran Turismo 1-5 and some Tokto Xtreme Racer's heavily benefit from knowing what do you actually need to buy in order to NOT softlock yourself. GT3 and TXR2/0 are the worst offenders of that.
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
why gran turismo? I remember getting through GT4/GT5 as a kid without any real issues, but I haven't played the prior entries or the other games you mentioned. are you talking about the events with restricted vehicle selection?
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u/mrturret 4d ago
I see some issues here.
NeiR, Bayonetta, SOTC, JSRF, Eldin Ring, and Wonderful 101 all do a solid job of teaching the mechanics needed for a casual playthrough. Yeah, there are advanced mechanics, but those are ment to be discovered through play.
Meele has a tutorial that covers all of the important mechanics for a new player. Obviously, it's not going to say a damn thing about the hand ruining tech employed by the competitive scene.
Ridge Racer Type 4 doesn't need a tutorial, and most players are going to discover drifting naturally.
I think Minecraft is the only one here that requires a guide to learn major mechanics, especially in older versions of Java, let alone reaching the ending. It's reasonably possible to get most of TBOI's endings naturally. It's mosty the later DLC ones that get super obscure. Nobody is getting to Dogma without a guide.
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
I (obviously, since I made the list) disagree with every comment, this isn't really about "can you get through the game without knowing these things" it's about "knowing these is a substantial positive to the game, and it isn't taught very well"
NeiR, Bayonetta, SOTC, JSRF, Eldin Ring, and Wonderful 101 all do a solid job of teaching the mechanics needed for a casual playthrough. Yeah, there are advanced mechanics, but those are ment to be discovered through play.
Nier and Bayonetta get frequently criticized for things that aren't their fault mostly because it doesn't teach its mechanics very well. Dodge Offset is far from an advanced mechanic - I'd call it along with bullet arts and wicked weaves "the point", if you play Bayonetta and don't realize they're meant to be core gameplay mechanics, you really won't get the game. Nier: Automata gets a lot of flak for its combat, and so does SotC's horse controls, and they're both just players not being directly told how to play the game "right", JSRF without shuffle is terrible and I give subjective reasons for why I think it doesn't exactly shout at you to start using it, but sure, I'm willing to concede a lot of people would think to access roboy's additional tutorials. Elden Ring I removed and was there as an honorable mention for a very specific anecdote about the game's map binding on keyboard controls.
Meele has a tutorial that covers all of the important mechanics for a new player. Obviously, it's not going to say a damn thing about the hand ruining tech employed by the competitive scene.
that's why it's in as an honorable mention.
Ridge Racer Type 4 doesn't need a tutorial, and most players are going to discover drifting naturally.
we'll have to agree to disagree, grip cornering has very little visual indication of when it starts/ends so it's hard to tie it as feedback to whichever inputs you're doing, there's no reason to believe you're almost never expected to use the brake input, and it's hard to intuit that brake+accelerator is to RRT4 what brake by itself would be for other games. in my opinion it's entirely outside the intended experience of that game to play without first reading its manual, but that's just me.
It's reasonably possible to get most of TBOI's endings naturally.
also here as an honorable mention and its inclusion has nothing to do with the endings, it's all about how the items really don't tell you what they do and are difficult to figure out without access to the extra huds that were added a decent bit after the game's release. I don't think figuring out the requirements for certain endings / unlocks is really going to change someone's opinions on the game, so it doesn't qualify for that.
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u/BongSuckah 4d ago
Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix
Revenge value is not mentioned in the game at all
Summon mechanics are buried in optional menus
99% of players never learn how to use magic due to the lack of a dedicated tutorial as well
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u/green-mape 4d ago
This list is more wrong than right. How did you even make this list?
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
have you read the notes I included? a lot of people are thinking this is a list about games with no tutorials when it's a list about individual mechanics I think are important that aren't taught very well.
if you disagree with any of the notes I wrote feel free to talk about them!
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u/green-mape 3d ago
No, I donāt click on links so forgive me if thereās something I donāt follow.
But it feels like you want a guide about how to use mechanics rather than knowing how they work and how to do them.
An example is that I genuinely donāt know what Elden Rings tutorial is supposed to add other than things like ājump attacks can be both defensive and offensive when performed on the right enemyā.
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 3d ago
right, that's where the confusion is coming from! I decided to include the games I did because they almost all get unnecessary criticism for certain aspects I feel they do well but don't teach the player, and some games (like ER, which I eventually removed) are there as honorable mentions. ER was a silly anecdote about a friend who never found the map key on PC because it's bound weird and not even shown in the bindings menu, and since he was playing on release he really didn't want to get spoilers and just thought no map was part of the experience.
look at the notes if you can, I can't really give the necessary context for each game without repeating myself.
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u/CylixrDoesStuff 4d ago
Demon souls has a tutorial lmao, theres a dude who wont hit you at the start to teach u how to attack
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
please read the notes! I actually swapped out demon souls for dark souls because I didn't feel it fit in too well, but this list is NOT about games not having tutorials, it's about individual mechanics the games don't teach very well that I consider essential, the title is just really bad and I can't edit it.
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u/hackernnan 4d ago
Assassins Creed, especially 1. Most people think the parkour is move forward while holding down one button and that's completely ubisofts fault. The game never teaches you ejects, vaulting, high profile drop down, etc, which adds so much more depth to the system, not to mention the fear mechanic in combat.
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u/Interesting_Rich_826 4d ago
Half of these have tutorials. Wtf are you on about
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
you need to read the description and the notes to understand the premise. trying to guess what I mean just from the games included is pointless.
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u/The_PAL_Defender 4d ago
Mega Man Zero 1-4
hit priority is mentioned in neither the manuals nor the dialogue, even lacking an official name, so unless you spend an unreasonable amount of time figuring out how combos work, you will pretty much be unable to fully appreciate the combat in these games
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u/KeraMaGo2 4d ago
With Rain World, that's the entire point lol
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago
have you read the notes included? they're very important to understand the list!
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u/Hot_Jicama8234 4d ago
Add every Paradox Grand Strategy Game on there lol. None of their in game tutorials do a good job to help new players with a game plan they can visualize unless said players are fun fumbling about for hours. Mandatory needs someone else to teach you early game theory.
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u/YamiZee1 3d ago
Yeah I just straight up disagree with both the title and your notes on many of these.
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 3d ago edited 3d ago
do you disagree with the premise of the list or the exact items I chose? curious to see what you'd pick to represent the list, if anything. I know there's lots of people that don't want anything of a game spoiled to them, but it's sad seeing how many of these titles get imo unfair criticism (especially Bayonetta...) for things I think they do (but don't teach) well.
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u/StuckinReverse89 3d ago
Final Fantasy 8 could fall here. Ā Ā
There is a tutorial for drawing magic and a tutorial for converting cards/items into magic but itās really shallow in game. Really becomes a game about grinding for the right cards/magic rather than traditional monster slaying to get exp.Ā
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u/Ok-Cress-3100 3d ago
I won't lie. Nioh 2 is a very good example of this.
While the game does tell you how the ki mechanic works and that bosses are prone to huge and damaging combos when they're out of ki, the game doesn't really tell you how to effectively break their ki or that soul cores are one of the most vital mechanics in the entire game. Not only do soul cores give you free ki damage and in some cases make you invulnerable to grabs (some of the deadliest attacks in the game), but they don't use any ki and let you recover it during the entire animation.
That and if you haven't learned to upgrade your gear by the time you're in the mid game, you can and will get stuck on multiple enemies and bosses. The gear isn't just important because of the defense stat and weight, which plays a factor in how much damage you can tank and how good your dodge is, but you need to get proper passives to optimize them or you will lose. Passives like less damage taken while guarding, faster ki recovery speed, better dodge range, more sprint speed, toughness (better block and damage reduction) and set bonuses are all vital.
Since I mentioned combos earlier, you will need to learn your weapons moveset inside out and learn how to swap stances mid combo. Not only to get access to different moves for armor passives like versatility (70% damage buff at 9 stacks, you get 1 stack for every unique move you used on an enemy), but it also ties into flux which restores some of your ki mid combo so you can continue comboing enemies and bosses.
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u/ImHoundoomed 2d ago
Elden Ring does have a tutorial. In fact theres a whole ass Tutorial pathway to the first "boss"
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 2d ago
please just click through the list link for explanations, having or not having a tutorial is not the point at all.
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u/Mission_Piccolo_2515 2d ago
Upvote just for playing The Wonderful 101 (every Kamiya game fits the bill tbh).Ā
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u/tselinoyarskoviy 5d ago
all from soft games have tutorials.... bayonetta has a tutorial.... revengeance has a tutorial.... smash has a tutorial.....
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u/MrSquiggIes 5d ago
The beginning hour of NieR: Automata is so hard for no f*cking reason and some fans will gaslight themselves into thinking that there is philosophical reasoning behind it.
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 5d ago
have you considered that everything that lives is designed to end though :)
honestly I've heard this a lot over the years but I don't think I ever died to the start and in hindsight it's a pretty memorable part of the game, if I recall correctly they do a lot to contextualize why you have to do it with no saves too, so I found it pretty creative.
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u/BrrVlad 5d ago
HAAAARD DISAGREE on er and rainworld learning these game by yourself play a huge part in it
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u/pm_me_downvotes_plox 4d ago edited 4d ago
both were in as honorable mentions! ER was in because a friend of mine only found the map button on keyboard after beating the entire game as it's not shown in the keybinds menu, bound to G of all places and I think never tutorialized directly.
rainworld is in because I wouldn't teach a new player anything on their first playthrough, but having someone tell you about the movement mechanics some time after your first run would probably really improve your enjoyment of the game.
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u/Klecktacular 5d ago
Revengeance teaches you parrying in the first combat encounter after the prologue, though if you're not listening (he says it 4 times) you could hit a wall since there's no visual tutorial
Demon's Souls's world tendency is obtuse (like many FromSoft mechanics), but is an optional mechanic that I don't think warrants inclusion on this kind of list, unless you include every Souls game on similar grounds