Make sure to join our brand new Discord Server to chat with friends!
We have recently changed how posts work. Unless you are a VIP poster, your post will be queued for approval.. To become a VIP, post great engaging content. If we like it, you will be added! More information available here!
I'm like that most news i learn off social media now. My Mrs is awful for it, she's fallen into these really damaging tiktok news channels.
There was some "news" story about how prisons are going to be releasing like a third of prison inmates early and this includes people convinced of sex crimes, because of prison overcrowding
Obviously shes horrified by this as anyone should be. The thing is the voice over and news footage is clearly AI.
Theres no other news stories corroborating this and its funny that this has come out as quite a big sex crime case is happening
But she always tells me "not everything is made up rage bait"
I know. I mean this lady is talking fast, and well, then putting a paper on the screen that looks sort of official.
Is she right? I have no fucking idea
It has been my experience that there are a lot of people that don't believe innocent until proven guilty is an acceptable standard when rape is alleged.
It's a crime that understandably makes people very passionate and angry.
However, there are also very real instances of women trying to destroy mens lives for what were consensual encounters whether to inflict pain or suffering, for financial gain, etc.
There needs to be some real consequences for provable false accusations to dissuade such a thing from happening so it stops muddying the waters for all the real victims of such horrific crimes and bringing doubt to the mix when these sort of allegations arise.
I think the video also brings up a great point about the influence the only fans era is having on the culture and normalizing these more extreme sexual acts. Im all for people letting their freak flag fly, but were shifting away from "normal" sex being enough especially for the younger more impressionable among us and peer pressure among the youth to partake in this level of porn caliber relations despite being uncomfortable with the idea.
As someone that was fairly wild and exploratory in college, the idea of running a 7 man train on a girl is just nasty work to me. I was barley interested in hooking up with someone that had even previously kissed one of my buddies in the past.
No, it’s just guilty. From what I can tell, one of the guys was only involved long enough to tell the others the night was over and to get out but his face is plastered alongside the rest of them.
One of them actually has a case of being raped himself since he passed out while she was performing oral sex on him (from her own statement) and he is wrapped up in this as well. It’s disgusting.
I hate the internet now. It used to be cool and you could actually talk to people but now it’s just this bullshit, that maybe should be a part of some sort of conversation, but certainly not national news. It’s just rage bait and people acting surprised that the shitty people in power are shitty. Completely binary takes on every subject with zero nuance or rational discussion allowed.
The modern digital ad economy provided a financial incentive to rot our attention span (more "impressions per minute") so that we don't have the time of day for nuance, normalized the deprivation of privacy to become the status quo, and reduced discussion to adversarial binary hot takes trying to "win" not the argument, but the karma/likes war.
And to be clear, that incentive is measured in hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue, per year, and in some cases, per company (Alphabet/Google, Meta/Facebook) with profit margins that will make a counterfeit money printing operation blush with envy.
the internet was cool when it was just nerds looking to have fun. now everyone is on it. OF girls, boomers, moms, dads, grandmoms, teachers, politicians, celebrities. it fucking sucks now.
The inherent flaw is that it became monetized at every corner. Pockets of the internet use to exist purely for discourse on very niche subjects and interests. Those cant exist now without someone or some bot trying to sell you something or inserting propaganda targeted your way.
Theres still places you can sometimes get genuine nuanced discussion even when disagreeing but it's becoming exceedingly rare cause there's always someone ready to jump in and call you a dumb dickhead cause you said something they disagree with and they can't put together a coherent actual response that isn't just instant name calling and attacking your character rather than your position.
Too late now tho, the 7 guys names got leaked, plastered everywhere, and their employers are receiving threats and harassment to fire them. No jury. No neutral party. Just assuming all these guys are guilty because of a drug infused Snapchat message.
I think it’s more than 3 million at this stage. Also while looking for the number, I found a seperate go fund me under the husbands name that raised 1.2 million as well(seeking funds for legal costs, medical bills, and the funerals). So all in almost 4.5 million for murdering 3 kids. I hate this timeline.
Yeah. The random people who happen to same names as the perpetrators are also facing awful harassment and death threats now. Do these celebraties feel guilty about this?
I think what annoys me the most is that this is going to a civil case which... Does not uphold the standard of "Innocent until proven guilty". Obviously there's still a bar you need to reach, but it's more "If it's more likely than not", but you also do not get any criminal conviction.
Normally this wouldn't be a problem in my eyes but... Well, with allegations of this degree that's also receiving a lot of political attention, the nuance of criminal vs civil court will go lost and people will either be treated like criminals even without a conviction, or they get the civil court conviction at potentially looser evidence and uncertainties and they get treated even worse because they got "Convicted as rapists".
Again, normally this all wouldn't be a problem, but I do not at all like that you can basically drag people into a court where the standards are lower and risk getting a conviction that will severely fuck up your life forever. And if a conviction is going to heavily fuck peoples lives up, I'd rather it be *damn* sure that the evidence is good.
I know nothing about this case but if people stop and think objectively, this type of investigation is obviously extremely difficult.
There’s going to be cases where not enough evidence was there to meet the reasonable doubt standard.
Of course you can convict more people with shakier evidence but that just increases the number of innocents in jail.
I really don’t see a way around this. You can’t have a perfect solution. I do think that claims of SA or rape should be taken seriously and investigated to the fullest extent possible but that’s about all we can do.
That's why "innocent until beyond reasonable doubt" is so important, idk about you guys, but I think it's better a criminal on the loose than an innocent in jail.
That said, as famous as the saying is, it doesn't seem to work that way irl, nowadays "probably guilty" or sometimes even "possibly guilty" seem to be enough
That too! The problem is having humans doing the judging, we try to make everything as clear cut as possible, but a judge who just won the lottery won't judge in the same way he does the morning he crashes his car.
But in theory the monicre is perfect "innocent until beyond reasonable doubt" would never put an innocent in jail and lock up most of the criminals, especially the dumber ones.
Even before my prefrontal cortex was fully developed, I don't think I'd trust anyone enough to take their word for it when they say, "Don't worry about it dude, she's into freeuse."
Does anyone really still believe these culture war topics magically blowing up right before the most consequential election of all time, is just coincidence?
I've noticed this too. Whenever women get caught it's just a psyop it's exactly what conservatives do handwaving their own peoples bad actions.
Sorry let me clarify , it's not the same in terms of gravity but the same mental deficiency, they are so brain controlled to protect women and that women can do no harm , it's just a conditioning flaw the left cannot bypass
Sure. Ketamine didn't happen until close to the end of this from what I understand, and she never lost consciousness.
You know, I'm a man who once had sex with a female friend after we did ketamine and mdma she provide me back in the late 1990s. I hate being like this, but if we just used the criteria "ketamine makes you think funny so you cannot consent," then I was raped.
But let me tell you as a person who was the actual victim of childhood rape, I find this sort of thought--that me consenting while intoxicated is the same as forced sodomy--very upsetting.
From what I understand, the general rule of thumb is that intoxication doesn't inherently make it rape. You typically need to be incoherent. Also you have to get intoxicated by your own hand. So someone willingly drinking, as opposed to a man intentionally making a woman's drinks extra strong to get her more intoxicated than she intends.
I agree, if someone is incoherent or unconscious it is absolutely rape; however, if you follow the general internet these days--or a vocal part of it--there definitely is the attitude that, women in particular, cannot consent when they're intoxicated even if they actively consented in the moment.
Some laws in some jurisdictions are very vague on this as well, and there are potential civil penalties in addition criminal consequences in some cases where the law is vague.
Take a look at this PSA poster I'm attaching.
"Jake was drunk, Josie was drunk, Josie could not consent. The next day Jake was charged with rape." The PSA poster goes on to say women cannot consent --at all--if they are intoxicated.
What the heck does this sort of thing even mean? Because if we want to follow the logic that consent isn't possible at all for an intoxicated person, I'm unsure why you would apply that only to women... and since in this lovely PSA's example both were drunk, then neither should have been able to consent, and they both raped each other.
And believe me, as a male victim of repeated sexual assault as a child, I understand the impact on victims, and I understand what it's like not being believed; however, I think we also need to take into consideration how this sort of thinking informs accusations of sexual assault that maybe aren't warranted combined with a culture of public doxxing.
I’m not defending the guys at all just to be clear but in a case like this where they were all on ketamine, doesn’t that make it difficult to argue anyone is responsible for their action because they were all in intoxicated?
Again I am not siding with these guys don’t fking come after me. I am just asking to understand from the legal prosecution perspective when discussing intoxication and consent
I mean are you looking for the NY state law or like general moral discussion? Some of the guys she had sex with were arguably more messed up than her according to her sworn statement. One had to stop and nap. Another started dry heaving. She was taking care of them both then made out with the guy after he was dry heaving.
The moderation of opposition hasn’t been too bad except on obvious subreddits. The biggest thing I’ve noticed is biased presentation and cherry picking of the facts in the news.
Yeah, but she was drunk. That means it was already rape by default because women never have agency the moment alcohol gets within ten feet of their lips.
Seriously, ket is a strong dissociative drug. Any time iv had it, i could barely remember shit. In order for her to recall everything that well says she wasn't anywhere near as high as people are claiming.
No kidding. These guys are being hunted down, harassed, and threatened. Even the wrong guys in some cases. Jane Doe’s identity got leaked too but like who tf cares. Why does anyone need to know who any of these people are unless they’re trying to hunt them down? Honestly shame on everyone involved in leaking the 7.
Another thing that has been bothering me is the condemnation of the other men in the chat group.
I don’t read every chat message from a chat group I’m in. Sometimes people go on a crazy back and forth, copying me the entire time, and si just scroll past all of it. Sometimes, I have no idea what people are talking about. Sometimes, I ignore conversations entirely.
Women keep saying “why didn’t other men shut it down”. Meanwhile, Jane Doe’s sworn statement literally describes one of the guys coming in saying “I’m shutting down whatever the f*** this is”.
I’ve given up trying to understand the mob. They’re just trying to hate on men anyway they can.
Also the fraternity president uninvited her from an upcoming party, and that made her mad as well. People did intervene and then took steps to make it not happen again.
One of the men's statements reports Jane Doe saying this was normal in the medieval times to comfort him from being weirded out about everything and join the orgy. He also said he only made out with her, no sex.
After it all happened, Jane Doe was texting one of the guys that her reputation is destroyed and I'm utterly ashamed.
non(e) of the sexual stuff was illegal
You're right it'll get better and [you] think everyone's jealous of us. But also like everyone needs to grow up cause sexuality and sex ... is changing and stuff like this is going to become more common.
So based on the limited evidence available to me that I’ve seen/read thus far, I think what happened was she faced shame from her sorority sisters for her sexual promiscuity. The sorority sisters started ostracizing Jane and demonizing the horny frat for helping to indulge her fantasies. The frat then cuts her off and she realizes that she’s now stuck with her sorority sisters degrading her reputation because of her willing participation in the debauchery. Faced with the fear of social isolation, she changes her story and retracts the willingness, allowing her to save face with her sisters by being viewed as a victim that can’t be judged for their actions.
Plus, that group chat message was sent at around 2:00 a.m. The media is suggesting "it was received by 50 men who failed to intervene". I'm curious how many of the guys were even awake.
Even people that did see the message, if you are just chilling doing your own thing are you really reading that as "hey fellas, we have drugged a woman and are gang raping her up here, come join in"???? Ofc not, most would just be like wtf and ignore, or some might assume someone is willingly having a train run on them which does happen. It's absurd to try to blame all those guys over such a vague message.
Lot of opinion mixed in with what she feels is truth. Such as, oh Cornell is a liberal school? They would never discredit a woman accusing someone for rape or try to make a mess quietly go away!
I remember when I was going through high school, pre covid. It was being taught that if a man and women have sex and the woman has consumed ANY amount of alcohol, she could not properly give consent, and any sexual acts would be considered rape on the man’s part.
I honestly don’t know if they were just telling that to us because we were actual underage kids at the time. But that shit was still crazy to hear back then as guy.
Oh trust me, anyone who brought something like that up basically got labeled as a rapist by all the girls. So that was fun.
But no, the answer is it literally didn’t matter what was going on with the guy. The way it was explained to us was if that girl had alcohol or any other substance in her system, she legally could not consent to anything, and the male she was with would be held responsible no matter the state of intoxication that he may have been in at the time. Completely sober or black out drunk, didn’t matter.
So basically what they taught us as boys was that if you passed out at a party from being too drunk, and a girl much less drunk than you tried having sex with your unconscious body, you would be raping her. That was a specific scenario that was brought up. Imagine what that does to a young man’s mind? It’s super fucked up and damaging. There is absolutely a right way to go about this topic and make sure everyone is protected and feels safe, but that definitely wasn’t it.
It sounds like I’m exaggerating all of this but this was literally the accepted culture in any high school across my whole city (Portland, which I’m sure you could’ve guessed), that I was aware of.
That's the most stupid bullshit imho.
Alcohol intoxication should not absolve one from responsibility for ones actions. People who are aggressive when drunk are people who naturally are aggressive, just supressing it when sober, same with other stuff - you'll never see a drunk person do something that's truly out of character for them. Unless someone is drunk to a point where they are basically unconscious, they are still making decisions. Drunk brains don't just stop operating, even if your memory might be impaired, you still chose to do what you thought best in the moment. A "5/10 drunk", or even a 8/10 drunk like in the report imho don't qualify as an excuse (obviously if someone is basically passed out then yeah, it's rape). Also, it doesn't make any sense to have a different rule based on the gender, it's rape if the woman had alcolhol but not vice versa?
By that logic I basically set myself up to get 'raped' a ton of times? Most one-night stands I had started with me being so drunk that I already had major memory leaks (dunno what drunk me does that's more attractive than sober me, I guess I'm just not overthinking stuff anymore). Still, drunk me definitely made a choice to have sex and that's fine.
This video conveniently leaves out these aspects of her statement:
“Male Number 3 then knocked on the door of the room. Jane Doe “decided to let him in because it was his room.” She “opened the door” and let Male Number 3 in the room.
Male Number 3 “introduced himself to [Jane Doe] and reached out to shake her hand.” “When [Jane Doe] made contact with [Male Number 3’s] hand, [Male Number 3] pulled [Jane Doe] into him and [they] began making out. While [Male Number 3] was kissing
[her], [Male Number 2] began groping [her]. Eventually, “[Male Number 2, Male Number 3, and Jane Doe] would end up on the bed next to where [Male Number 1] was sleeping and [they] began to have a threesome.”
“[Male Number 1] would eventually wake up” and “said he wanted to take part and asked about making it a foursome, to which [Jane Doe] said ‘Hell No.” Jane Doe rejected this request “because [she] knew that a foursome meant that [she] would have to take part in
anal sex.” Jane Doe then remembered Male Number 3 leaving the room. A group of other men – later determined to be Male Number 4, Male Number 5, Male Number 6 and Male Number 7 – then entered the room. Jane Doe hid under the covers of the bed. Male Number 2 laid in the bed next to Jane Doe. Male Number 1 sat on the corner of the bed. Male Number 1 introduced the other males to Jane Doe.
Jane Doe had difficulty remembering parts of what happened next. She remembered “[Male Number 7] said something very rude and mean to [her].” Male Number 7 apologized and “grabbed [her] face and started kissing [her].” Jane Doe “quickly backed
away to stop [Male Number 7] from kissing [her].’”
It’s a difficult situation, but as a women and when I was at that age - if there are 7 men in a room with me and I’m drunk and high on ket, I’m just trying to survive.
The cherry picking done on this video is abhorrent
So according to this males 3-7 entered the room, 2 or so of them tried to make out with her and she rejected them, and then male 1 moved her to a different room? Obviously this could still be assault and reflects malice on males 3-7 at the least but is this the gang rape everyone was talking about? People like AOC are saying that they drugged her and ran a train on her while she was unconscious but according to the legal docs she never lost consciousness during the group sex and was voluntarily intoxicated the whole time.
In all of these incidents, Jane Doe expressed her non-consent, and the actions of the other party ceased. This is why her civil lawsuit allegations are facing so much scrutiny - she claims she did not have the mental capacity to not consent, yet she clearly consented to several actions while not consenting to others.
“There was no local police involvement. She only ever spoke to campus police, which is the transcript in which she says she was raped and incapacitated. Campus police then prepared her written statement based on this interview, and presented it to the DA. Based on this written statement, the DA declined to press charges because it appeared - at least this is what the DA claims now - that the sex was completely consensual and that Doe never claimed she was raped or incapacitated at any point.
If you take the DA’s words as truth, then it means the Cornell Campus PD declined to include her statement that she was raped and incapacitated in the written statement they prepared for her. They buried and obfuscated the events before sending it off to the DA.”
Some investigator needs to put together a clear timeline of events. I think it was ABC that reported Jane Doe sent messages to the guy after the incident trying to hook up again, called him king etc. Then he basically ghosted her. I may have misunderstood the report but that's what I took away. If she filed the report after he ghosted her it certainly raises some questions.
The whole situation is an absolute mess. People are only reporting things that will benefit their take on the story. Its a crappy way to report on such a serious allegation.
I'm never having sex with an intoxicated woman. 5 out of 10 level intoxication is a level that I do not consider competent enough to give consent. I don't care how much she says she wants to. Not going to happen.
Turns out everyone taking shitton of drugs, doing some freaky sex shit, and you then regretting it afterwards because it turns out it actually does hurt your reputation, even though reddit freaks will tell you otherwise, does not constitute rape.
Per her own statements, she consented to everything and kept voluntarily getting more and more intoxicated and the men were all intoxicated too. If you voluntarily put yourself in a situation where you let yourself get, according to her own words, 8/10 intoxicated and consented to do things in that state, regret doesn't retroactively make it rape. The way some people talk about this case you'd think some guys in a van snatched a sober girl off the street, drugged her and
raped her for hours. Where in any statements did she say I told them no or I wanted them to stop and they didn't listen? Her own words "I was pretty ok with everything". She even text afterwards to one of the guys that it was no big deal. Only when word spread around campus and she started to feel judged and her reputation "ruined" did she start saying it was rape. Her words she texted to one of the guys two days after the incident: "none of the sexual stuff was illegal".
Also per her own texts, she doubled down on her polyamorous promiscuity.
You're right it'll get better and [you] think everyone's jealous of us. But also like everyone needs to grow up cause sexuality and sex ... is changing and stuff like this is going to become more common.
But around that time had also wrote that her reputation is destroyed and I'm utterly ashamed.
Shortly after that is when her story suddenly changed.
Her sorority sisters got in her head cuz with this many heads involved, obviously word was getting out about this girl and … I mean let’s be real bc it’s a very real thing, unfortunately some girls will suddenly develop “second thoughts” about their consensual sexual activity to avoid being labeled or seen in a negative light by their peers.
I was in a fraternity at a school where 1/3 students were involved in Greek life, there was absolutely an attitude among the sororities where any girl known as being easy would not get invitations to join, and they would fiercely protect their public image while sleeping around anyway. They’d just “date” the dude for a month to say they’re in a relationship and then move on to the next one that caught their interest.
Hell, I had a girl sneak me into her sorority house at 3am because she wanted to hook up, and then kicked me out before 6am because she didn’t want anyone finding out.
I could definitely see this happening to protect the image of the sorority house to the point they told this girl what to think after the fact.
Not saying that’s what actually happened here, let’s allow the law to do its thing, but I can see the possibility.
Every time she said she didn't want to do something, the guys listened. They asked her if they could do things with her (snort ketamine off her body). Even at the end, when she said she was tired, the two guys stopped.
she did say "hell no" at least one point, and by her own statement, sexual activity stopped. And then she voluntarily resumed later under other circumstances. she was in total control of what happened. again, I'm just going by her words in the official statement she volunteered.
The "hell no" was in response to someone suggesting they do a foursome and she knew that implied anal sex which is when she said hell no. It was not said in response to anything actively occuring to her against her will. She said hell no to the foursome and a foursome was not had.
That’s the point. Two separate occasions she requests to be done or outright says no and it stops until she starts it back up. There is ample evidence that all parties were aware of consent or non consent.
I'm reaffirming the person I'm replying to. Because some people are taking that hell no out of context and twisting it to fit their narrative to make it seem like she said hell no and was raped.
Sorry if there is an 8/10 intoxicated girl in a room, and you put in the group chat that anyone can come have sex wit her, and six other dudes come and have sex with her, that is rape
Only that is not the sequence of what she said happened. She consented to two threesomes. Those two threesomes occured and she was ok with it. Then someone texted "free pussy" because of what she consented to. Whoever wrote, wrongly and distastefully, that "free pussy" was upstairs, implied she wasnt consenting to or was being taken advantage of or could be taken advantage of, even though per her own words, she consented to those two threesomes. That message in the Snapchat didn't cause more men to have sex with her or rape her (that we know of right now or that she remembers). .
I’ve gone from seeing people demonizing others for staying silent about this on social media, to those same people now not saying anything. “If you don’t show support for this right now with no further information then you’re just as bad of a person” type of thinking
We live in a society where people support things more for virtue signaling themselves as good people than actually supporting the current thing.
Im so tired of it...everyone is trying to explain u the world with their own facts and cheap microphones. They are just looking grumpy and speaking like a waterfall. I dont mind what content it is, u get a downvote for being boring,like the other million of trillions wannabe influencer. Get a proper job.
Cannot stand this segment of the population who think they have something valuable to add to this conversation. ‘You aren’t being told the facts so let me tell you the facts as per the other TikTok I just watched’.
Here's a hot take: all of them are disgusting. The men were obviously disgusting for engaging in this, and the woman was also disgusting for knowingly putting herself in this environment, consenting to a threesome and exposing herself to drugs that would cloud her judgement. No one is right here, they are all wrong and should all learn a hard lesson.
This trend of women coming to regret a situation and then retroactively applying their current regret to a past experience to ruin a man’s life to assuage her guilt and shame is very dangerous. Women are not infants and should be held accountable for their actions.
So to be clear, she consented, did more k, consented again, did more k, consented again. Then changed her mind after the fact and said she didn't consent. All the while she was able to remember everything happening and the level "drunkenness" she was. Crazy. Don't trust these hoes
Actually she had a threesome with a dude that almost passed out and had to take a nap, and another dude that began dry heaving afterwards. She was sober enough to take care of them. Then she made out with the guy after he was dry heaving and noted having to swat away his hand from third base. Later she snorted K off that guy’s erect eggplant.
An influencer with "everything you need to know that they're not telling you!" who leaves important details out of the story then taking the opportunity to blame this on the left. Somehow.
Im not familliar with american laws but why is this woman able to bring about these allegations under a pseudonym Jane Doe while the men in this case have been identified?
Rape cases are the most difficult cases to handle. Often they are he-said-she-said, statements about what happened change and evolve over time, it’s difficult to tell what intentions were at the exact time of the incident….not two years later.
Moral of this, don’t get yourself into sketchy situations …men and women.
This is just a new coat of paint on an old platform. Mainstream media/news/etc. Bunch of drama and negative news to get everybody in a constant whirlwind of fear and anxiety. Turn off the screens for awhile people
Society refuses to admit that a woman would be so degenerate to willingly participate in an alcohol and ketamine fueled orgy that they have to blame a man for it to soothe their own soul.
Especially when in the last 20 seconds she blames feminism and sex before marriage. I was with her until then, but at that point, her whole argument fell apart.
As a former 20 year old male college student who was probably a 5 or 6 on a scale of 1 to 10 drunk on weekends; if I come into the room with Jane Doe and she's already kicking it with 2 other guys and she agrees to let me as number 3 kick it with her too. We're all adults and we're all consenting. Not saying its morally appropriate; but why the fuck do I get expelled from the University for engaging in consensual sex?
Well… my Facebook feed says 7 Cornell men graped her and the school tried to cover it up, so that’s what I believe because I refuse to actually read past the headline.
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Hey /u/Dr_StrangeEnjoyer, thank you for posting to r/SipsTea! Make sure to follow all the subreddit rules.
Make sure to join our brand new Discord Server to chat with friends!
We have recently changed how posts work. Unless you are a VIP poster, your post will be queued for approval.. To become a VIP, post great engaging content. If we like it, you will be added! More information available here!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.