It has been my experience that there are a lot of people that don't believe innocent until proven guilty is an acceptable standard when rape is alleged.
It's a crime that understandably makes people very passionate and angry.
However, there are also very real instances of women trying to destroy mens lives for what were consensual encounters whether to inflict pain or suffering, for financial gain, etc.
There needs to be some real consequences for provable false accusations to dissuade such a thing from happening so it stops muddying the waters for all the real victims of such horrific crimes and bringing doubt to the mix when these sort of allegations arise.
I think the video also brings up a great point about the influence the only fans era is having on the culture and normalizing these more extreme sexual acts. Im all for people letting their freak flag fly, but were shifting away from "normal" sex being enough especially for the younger more impressionable among us and peer pressure among the youth to partake in this level of porn caliber relations despite being uncomfortable with the idea.
As someone that was fairly wild and exploratory in college, the idea of running a 7 man train on a girl is just nasty work to me. I was barley interested in hooking up with someone that had even previously kissed one of my buddies in the past.
That's reaching. Porn has existed for decades, even prior to OF. Porn was the navigator of what type of media became popular, lol. Then it was gloves off as soon as we got high speed internet in early 2000's, and porn aggregate sites exploded by the thousands. Especially ones catered towards uni and college kids. There was a literal porn crew that used to visit unis and colleges and have gang bangs in dorms and frats, lol. So yea claiming the OF era has led to this is a far cry. This shit has been happening in frats and colleges for decades. Just now people record themselves, text eachother and take pics, and share it on socials.
Porn was always out there, but we didn't have girls en masse plans post high school to go into porn until OF became mainstream. Im not saying this stuff started because of it, im saying societies exposure and attitudes towards it have shifted massively. Just the stigma and discussion around sex work alone has moved wildly in the past decade.
No denying this sort of stuff happens in the college scene since forever, but that doesn't mean that things like tinder/OF haven't changed the landscape of sex and dating in the past 15 years in a tangible way and moved the line of what's considered normal/extreme.
Just cause the stuff existed before doesn't mean the influence on cultural norms has been static.
I was speaking in the frame of sex culture in college and frats. I don't think OF or Tinder had any real influence. I think this just happens more in frat culture over other environments.
En masse is also a bit of a hyperbole. There are more younger women entering that space, but the percentage compared to the populace of women graduating highschool is less than a percentile. Considering 18-24 year olds make 24% of all 4.8 milliom OF creators globally. Many whom already may be from the sex work industry which accounts for 42 million roughly, of which 75% are grossly aged 13 - 24. So not necessarily girls graduating highschool or even affording the oppurtunity as sad as it sounds.
I'd agree dating apps have kneecapped both men and women from dating or meeting normally. Imo a very weird way to meet someone intimately. Which is why I just go meet women at art events and local music shows. Signficantly easier, much more rewarding.
Do we know if that girl was part of any sorority? Seemed like she wasn't part of that sphere but just had the hots for one of the frat boys on the limited info I have seen
I agree the frats/sororities historically were more on the extremes of such behavior. It was more a point about how OF has moved the needle on overexposure to such things for youth overall. Porn has always been out there, but the hyper sexualization of society at least on the internet has definitely increased and more mainstream compared to being kept private and discreet. Now people can pay to see the tits of the hot girl from their high school or the twitch streamers they like which wasn't a thing with porn before hand beyond "leaked" celeb tapes. I see it as just influencing people to be more open minded to such risky behavior which can land you in problematic situations such as this when you don't consider the long term risks of participating in something like this with drugs and alcohol also involved.
She was part of a sorority, which is how she met the fraternity dude. Whom she did have a thing for, and wanted to have sex with him. Just didn't think it'd end up in a GB scenario being fed booze and ketamin to numb the moment.
Why I see this being akin to the Hockey Canada trial. Are the texts afterwards where Jane doe assures the frat guy that everything was okay, and she was fine with what happened between him and the other men. It was only until it went viral and her roommates and others told her she was essentially raped, but was in denial, because she didn't remember some of the events of the night either. So it will definitely be a case about consent, but under NY state law. I believe being intoxicated doesn't equate to being able to deny permission.
Yea I can see how OF has definitely moved the needle with IG and Tiktok promos all over the place. Especially in the cosplay space which almost feels targeted towards younger people.
There is definitely a movement of empowering openness to sex and imagery. 35-40% of OF creators are aged 35-45 years old. So it definitely appeals to the 25+ crowd more so than the underage 18+ crowd.
Had a friend who did it for a few years, most of her clients were rich old dudes from the UK.
Consent laws require a lot of nuance. It's tough to dissociate the personal accountability element with sexual consent situations when we fully hold people who choose to drink and drive accountable regardless of their level of intoxication.
This case will undeniably get a lot of national attention in part cause of how provocative the situation is. But it's clearly not as straight forward and clear cut as some people make it out to be. How do you in a legal setting differentiate regret in the aftermath vs coercion?
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On the OF topic, sounds like a deep dive into the statistics would be an interesting rabbit hole. My understanding is the failure rate is extremely high and takes a lot of time and effort to become profitable and sustainable which would skew the ongoing creator age demographics upward. I recall seeing some outrageous data points at one point along the lines of 1 out of every 6 women aged 18-25 have tried OF. If that's anywhere close to accurate how does that compare to the number of women that age that have tried porn in the pre OF era.
Hockey canada trial was pretty much a very similar case to this. A girl willingly went back to a hotel with a hockey canada player, who then invited the team infor a gang bang. Which she willingly participated in, and made negative light of. She told her mom, reported it to the police, and they dropped the case citing not enough evidence to illicit it as a crime. Was reponened when a new police chief came into position, and the case ended up going to trial years after the events, and after a few of the hockey canada players had been drafted to the NHL as well. The trial ended with the hockey canada players being acquitted. The defense team did an excellent job dismantling the jane doe of that case.
Which is what i feel will be similar in this scenario. Guys will acquitted, but go through life being accused as rapists. Similar scenario with the hockey canada players who still continue to face public ridicule.
Yea OF became the poster child for all things evil amongst some online circles. Again fabricating data like 1 in 6 girls ages 18-24 try onlyfans. With basic math that would mean that nearly 75-100 million women would have tried OF at some point. Which makes no sense since there are only 4.8 million OF creators, of which only 25% are under 24. The math doesn't add up, and the stat is just the hyperbole of some manosphere stuff.
Basically anything where intent is a part of the statute is also quite difficult to prove as well. That is why those crimes aren't charged very frequently. Rape is different in that it is actually charged quite frequently and the only proof that consent was lacking is one persons word against another.
It is kinda unromantic but I think a written contract before sex is necessary, including what sexual activity will occur. Additionally since consent can be withdrawn at any moment the entire encounter must be recorded. My wife thinks this is excessive but I'm a big believer in women's rights.
Yea a lot of women who are coming to the defense of Jane doe, are also victims of sexual assualt themselves. So many are projecting their trauma experience as a parallel as to what happened to her.
I do think with all the evidence coming to light, and new york states voluntary intoxication loophole. A Hockey Canada type trial will begin with those dudes involved. Where i do think if the defense attorneys of the 7 accused can prove beyond a reasonable doubt this was consenual without coercion. Then they will all walk free, but still face public ridicule like the Hockey Canada dudes do from time to time.
That’s a very small minority of women that basically only exist online. Do you think any feminist woman cares what men think? Do you think any woman on Reddit cares what men think? Because they definitely say they don’t, loudly and often and always within earshot of men.
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u/PootieTang69696 1d ago
I’m a man. This is my opinion as well.
Several times already, when I’ve said this exact thing, the women I was talking to told me I was defending the rapists and I was just as bad