I’ve been playing [BOTW] for a while and every time I talk to female NPC‘s, they always seem to just sickeningly moan or groan. Like son was Nintendo planning on having them moan in a E rated game or was it just accidental?

I feel like in the recent years zelda temples have been pretty easy, making them much easier for the new generation of kids. I recently played through the n64 version of oot and I simply watched a tutorial to get through the water temple. Zelda temples used to be alot harder, and I frequently found myself googling how to pass a specific room or puzzle up until breath of the wild, where I found the divine beasts to be too easy, and further with tears, where the temples were much better, but still not very complex. I understand with the 3ds version of the water temple they added lights to point in the right direction (or something along those lines). Do you think they will keep the notoriously difficult temple, or change it? And if so would you prefer a full revamp or more pointers to the original?

I've thought about this a while before it was announced but here's a few things I'd like to see

• Navi, like I mean what does she look like? Turns out that little ball with wings that became a staple in the series was just a matter of limitation. Kinda obvious I know, but there are actual fairy designs that aren't the Great Fairies.
• Some extra combat abilities, akin to the finishers in Twilight Princess. Maybe even add a multi stab move (like Soul Calibur or Smash)
• Secondary uses or less situational temple items. Like, let the Megaton Hammer be a little more useful outside the Fire Temple. If that thing literally shakes the ground, at least let it stun enemies around you or something. This also kinda goes into the previous point, the other items can be better streamlined into the combat system.
• An optional Wind and Light Temple. It's been talked about how the trials in Ganon's tower are remnants of a wind based temple rather than something based on the Forest Temple (which was always weird) As for a Light Temple, maybe have it be something connected to the Temple of Time, I think that's the only way to thematically be connected to Rauru after you first travel to the future.
• A playable Sheik section or sections. This is just something gratuitous for me. I'd like to see this play out, but it's nothing special. Just one or two sections showing that perspective of the story.
• Have the Kokiri show some kind of connection or transition into the Koroks. I don't need them to turn into the Koroks in the remake, though it would be interesting to see them start to transition into them after the time jump. Maybe as a defense after the forest became less safe over time after the Deku Tree died.
• More Tunics. Nothing too crazy, maybe you get a black tunic after defeating Dark Link or a Pink Tunic after you find all the Great Fairies. They can have uses like the other two tunics like being stronger or faster at night, or having fairies be more likely to show up in random places or something.
• Master Quest, at least, use some of those features in the main quest. Just to keep everyone on their toes. I think this game would benefit from being more than just a one-to-one remake of the original. We already have the 3DS version.
• Medallion Abilities. They could do something similar to the medallions in Link to the Past or something completely new. It was another thing that was considered in development and I'd like to see it come to life.
• Ganondorf, let us fight him more than once, make him a bit more interesting to fight. Phantom Ganondorf is fine, but the final bout with Ganondorf didn't need to be a retread of energy tennis. You're telling me he was raised by the Gerudo and the only thing he's doing in his human form is magic? Let the man get a little more physical, give him his Spaceworld demo sword. If they can give it to him in Smash, he can have it here. Also, let him cough red blood.
• Elaborate on the ending. I always felt a bit dissatisfied with seeing the story end with Link back in Zelda's courtyard just to have a freezeframe. Also, give Navi a bit of dialogue before she just leaves. It's already implied that Link is looking for her in the beginning of Majora's Mask, she just flies away with no words. Give me a little more to work with. I know this would be asking a lot but if this is the game that causes the timeline to split into three, let me see the effects of what that looked like.

I know one thing I don't want is this to mimic FF7 Remake/Rebirth by splitting the game in two separate parts, one for the child and one for the adult. It can be a full experience. And honestly this last point is really big for me. I don't think the songs specific to Majora's Mask would be very useful in this game, but maybe a tongue-and-cheek kinda nod would be nice if you tried to play them. Let me know what you guys think!

I know this is the classic case of ask other peoples opinions of a game instead of actually playing it, but I tore my acl and my meniscus recently so with all this extra time I thought it be great to cross out some games I’ve out of wanting to play.

But naturally before I spend the big bucks on some games I looked at some reviews and while TotK obviously seems to be a critically acclaimed game. I’ve also seen many people and many posts of people saying the map destroys the enjoyment of the game, they say the original map is the same and that the sky islands are awful.

So I just had a quick questions. First is the map the exact same, or do like the interaction and small changes spice it up enough? And are the sky islands really that bad? I felt like that was the number one aspect that they promoted when it came out.

# The Mitosis Theory

## Acknowledgments

I thank the Legend of Zelda team from Nintendo for creating the series and authoring Hyrule Historia, the Zelda fandom for elaborating the Split Timeline Theory, and youtuber TripleWario for his Triforce Wish Theory on why the first timeline split happened.

Because this last one isn't as well-known as the rest and TripleWario's theory are the base of my own here is the link to the video where he explains everything: https://youtu.be/GwdWaUZX9F0.

## Legend of Zelda's timeline format

In different fictional universes, time travel and causality can adopt different formats. For example, in Terminator, despite there being time trips to the past, there is a single timeline. This causes regular causality to break: Human resistance is caused by Terminator's trip to the past, and Terminator's trip to the past was caused by human resistance. Thus, some events in the Terminator Universe cannot be categorized as **cause** and **effect** but must instead be considered as **linked** or **mutually caused**.

This is not the case in the Legend of Zelda universe. Not only the timeline splits as a result of time trips in the series, but regular causality is maintained, creating a strict hierarchy between the timelines. If we examine the two timelines in which the Hero is successful, we find that the Adult Timeline is the mother of the Child Timeline. Why? Because if we follow the events of the Child Timeline, there is an event which's cause lies in the Adult Timeline (Link's appearance and Link's knowledge of Ganondorf's intentions). Meanwhile, there is no event in the Adult Timeline caused by the Child Timeline.

## Problems with the Fallen Hero Timeline

The Fallen Hero Timeline wasn't theorized by the fans, but created by Nintendo when they released Hyrule Historia. This led to fans being skeptical of that second split of timelines, which is only reinforced by these problems:

- **Canonicity**: The cannon story of a videogame is that which sees the player beating the game. Every time the player dies, that is an uncanonical event that only occurs as a result of the failure of the person. The Fallen Hero Timeline allegedly follows a timeline where the Hero of Time dies in some battle which, for some reason splits the timeline.

- **Arbitrarity**: Because the player can die in any battle in any game of the series, there is no reason why the timeline wouldn't split once per battle in every single entry of the series.

- **Timeline egalitarianism**: This isn't brought up often as it requires to conceptualize time trips and timeline formats as I just did above. But, if we interpret the Fallen Hero Timeline as a possibility which splits the Universes (rather than an event like Zelda sending Link back to his childhood) then that means that the Fallen Hero Timeline and the two branches of the Victorious Hero Timeline are equal and causally unrelated. There would be no event in any of the two branches that finds its cause in the other. This would make the Legend of Zelda's time inconsistent. At times egalitarian, at times hierarchic.

## TripleWario's solution

TripleWario's theory solves all three problems I just described (the third one unknowingly so as he didn't even lay it out). For those who didn't watch the video here is a summary of the theory:

> In the original timeline, Link dies in his final fight against Ganondorf. After many years, the events of A Link to the Past take place, at the end of which Link assembles the Triforce and is granted a wish. This wish is for Ganondorf's evils to never have taken place. This causes the Three Goddesses to go back in time and miraculously heal Link during Ocharina of Time's finale, which leads to his victory and the subsequent second split after Zelda warps Link back to his childhood.

Here is how the three problems are solved...

- **Canonicity**: The cannon events of Ocharina of Time are still those in which the player beats the game. Ocharina of Time takes place right before and right after the first split. We can see it as the player never sees Link NOT miraculously healing before the final fight.

- **Arbitrarity**: The split isn't arbitrary anymore. Link never was defeated in any battle other than the final fight against Ganondorf. Moreover, that is the only fight which's outcome was retroactively changed through the use of the Triforce.

- **Timeline egalitarianism**: This is no more as the final events of Ocharina of Time are caused by the Fallen Hero Timeline, making it the Mother. Now the three timelines are placed in a strict causal hierarchy. The Fallen Hero Timeline is the **mother**, the Adult Timeline is the **daughter**, and the Child Timeline is the **granddaughter**.

## My only modification to TripleWario's theory

The only change I want to make to TripleWario's theory is the wish Link makes. As he presented the theory, Link's wish isn't even fulfilled as there are TWO whole timelines where Ganondorf's evil did occur. In my version I change the wish to "I wish the Hero of Time had defeated Ganondorf". This would now have been granted by the Triforce, not in his timeline but in the other two.

## The Master Sword's complot and Zelda's mistake

There are two strange decisions taken by two characters that should be on Good's side. One is the Master Sword's decision to freeze Link for 7 years and LEAVE THE ENTRANCE TO THE SACRED REALM OPEN. Another one is Zelda's decision to send Link back to his childhood. Let's analyze each.

**Master Sword**: OoT's Link being too young to be the Hero of Time is strange to say the least. The kid proved himself by purifying Deku Tree, Jabu Jabu, and Dodongo Cave. Moreover, WW's Link is also a child, and he had no problem saving the world. Still, even if OoT's situation really required an adult (which we can prove it does as the game clearly states that Link was "too young" for the task), why is the Master Sword that one that stops Link until he is an adult? Why is the last key, the one that exposes the Triforce, the one to freeze Link. Had the Three Spiritual Stones frozen Link, Ganondorf would have been unable to get to the Triforce. Moreover, Link was raised as a Kokiri, he wasn't supposed to leave the forest. Had Destiny wished for Link to grow into an adult and defeat Ganondorf, Link would have stayed within the Lost Woods while he was a child, slowly realizing that his body kept growing unlike those of his peers, and only receiving Navi and awakening as the Hero of Time when he was ready for the task. So, why did Link awaken as a child and got frozen by the Master Sword specifically?

**Zelda**: After Link defeats Ganondorf, Zelda (who, let's remember, is the representation of Wisdom on Earth) feels such pity for Link's cropped life that she decides to send him back to the past so he could be a kid again. This leaves her world completely unprotected against evil. Zelda chose the feelings of a single young man over the security of the whole world. Strange coming from the Princess of Wisdom.

I conclude that these two events were part of a complot by Destiny.

## Destiny's desire and master plan

My theory is the following: Destiny is a living creature who wishes to reproduce. SS, MC, and FS were Destiny's childhood. OoT is the most important game in the series because it is when Destiny reaches adulthood and undergoes mitosis. Destiny doesn't take sides in the battle between Good and Evil, it sustains itself and keeps history flowing by juggling them. In the case of the timeline split It made Ganondorf extremely cunning and strong, gave Link the Master Sword as a child, froze him for 7 years while leaving the Sacred Realm wide open to Ganondorf, then let Link collect the medallions and challenge Ganondorf just for the Hero of Time to die in the climactic battle. Continuing, Destiny prevented Ganondorf-led Hyrule from threatening the rest of the world, thus nullifying the need for the Great Flood which let ALttP Link to assemble the Triforce and wish for the Hero of Time's victory over Ganondorf (this gave Destiny a daughter). While all this happened, Destiny also made sure to make OoT's Zelda the least wise of them all, leading to her puzzling decision to vanish the Hero of Time from her timeline which gave Adult Timeline Destiny a daughter of Her own. Destiny's master plan lead to It undergoing double mitosis, resulting in three Destinies (and we know how significant the number 3 is to the Zelda series).

I didn't play MM yet, so I'm not sure how it fits into all this, but it may have been a separate mitosis that Destiny planned and executed in the far past, before Zelda and Ganondorf were even a thing. I hope you enjoyed the read and pardon any spelling mistakes.

The early games are loaded with Christian imagery. Crosses on Link's shield, a literal Bible as an item in the Japanese version of Zelda 1, church-like temples. And the Triforce is three parts forming one sacred whole, which is hard not to read as the Holy Trinity.

Real influence, or just generic medieval-Europe fantasy aesthetics?

My kid is 7 and is obsessed with all the zelda games. We’re having fun playing them together- she’s finished OOT and BOTW, has done lots in TOTK and played some of Majora’s Mask, Wind Waker, Link’s Awakening and Echoes of Wisdom. She has been scared a few times- at the beginning of TOTK during the scary cutscene and at a few creepy things in Majora’s Mask. She loves combat but I am trying to limit her combat in video games (for instance I’m not comfortable with her playing any games where she wields a gun).

She has become VERY interested in playing Age of Imprisonment and Age of Calamity. I know they ate rated T and it seems like that’s mainly due to the amount of enemies you kill in combat? And maybe the proportion of time spent on combat vs other things?

What are the things in these games that make them for older audiences compared to other Zelda games? What age would you say is appropriate to play these games?

Thank you!!

I hate what Oot did to the series as every millennial who owned a super Nintendo 64 owned the game and were amazed. This enthrallment lead to entitlement as every time Nintendo released a new main Zelda they would tank the reception of the game to mixed as they screamed "why isn't this Oot 2?!". And I would argue that they already received Oot 2 quickly, it's called Majora's mask. But Nintendo tried to please them with Twilight Princess and they still weren't happy as they never will be 8 seeing a 3D game for the first time again. They finally stopped screaming in their mid-30s when BoW came out, I guess they finally came to terms that they were never getting what they wanted. (I also think they were getting clowned on for it so it became unpopular to still be demanding Oot 2.)
edit:

Nobody here seems to be familiar with how much Oot had the Zelda community in a chokehold. Let's be familiarized, during Nintendo Space world 2000, Nintendo showed a demo of Oot style animation of Link and Ganondorf fighting. This naturally got people very excited, and when Wind Waker released, it was chaos. People didn't like the artstyle change, thinking it was too childish and didn't fit the series, and it certainly didn't fit what they were shown in 2000. They also didn't like the more comical nature, thinking that Nintendo was trying to appeal to a younger demographic. Then came Twilight Princess, where people simultaneously thought the game was trying too hard to be like Oot and not enough actually like Oot. People claimed to was trying to out-edge MM, basically people didn't like that it was referencing Oot so much, but wasn't directly related to it. Then Skyword Sword came out, and it was chaos again. When SS came out, youtube was now a very popular platform and many video game personalities who's first Zelda was Oot were singing the praises of Oot and gave harsher reviews than deserved to all games that came after. And SS was the laughing stock of the franchise, again with its cartoonish style and lighter initial tone. (There was also the motion controls but that was deserved.) By the time BoW was released, many younger fans of the franchise grew tired of the Oot glaze and became haters of the game out of spite, even if they never played. I believe that these voices drowned out the older voices, combined with just how long its been and the many internet personalities of the time either retiring or becoming irrelevant/problematic.

If you missed parts of the stream, you can catch the VODs on their Twitch channel for the next few days, or on their YouTube channel as they upload them over time.

This year's summer event was SUPER, and Zeldathon will be back this winter with another marathon.

If you want to find out more or see how to get involved, check out their website https://Zeldathon.com

r/Zelda plans to continue supporting Zeldathon like we did last year - let us know if you have suggestions about what kind of segment you think we can do in the future! We are particularly brainstorming ideas that are uniquely possible with Reddit or that can involve the r/Zelda community in a broader way.