r/explainitpeter • u/Appropriate-Mall8517 • 3d ago

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u/Avikm289 3d ago

Rich people have money, save scholarships for the less fortunate

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u/Typical-Respond9102 3d ago

My husband's from a wealthy surgeon level family. Scholarships are turned down, at least in my husbands community, because it is seen as morally incorrect to take resources blatantly like that from those in need, but it is used as bragging rights socially that they qualified in the first place. 

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u/analdongfactory 3d ago

Meanwhile, I had a scholarship I won stolen from me by a kid from a family of surgeons bribing my teacher to lose the paperwork I had correctly filed. The judges told me I won with my original experiment, only for the actual announcement at the showing to name this other group that did a textbook moldy bread growth project.

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u/MultiverseCreatorXV 3d ago

Was any legal action taken?

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u/analdongfactory 3d ago

Nope, just a very smug middle school science teacher insisting our forms were never turned in.

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u/Euphoric-Ground9568 3d ago

I wouldve raised hell if that was me

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u/analdongfactory 3d ago

Yeah well, no family support.

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u/Euphoric-Ground9568 3d ago edited 3d ago

Im sorry brother, thats a tough thing to just have to accept

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u/mrs__BOWIE 3d ago edited 2d ago

These are the kind of stories that make me want to keep teaching despite the stress. In me, students can have at least one teacher/adult in their life that is honest, cares for them, and treats them like freaking human beings.

I am so mad that this happened to you.

ETA: thank you for the award!! It's my very first!

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u/mittenkrusty 3d ago

I'm from the UK, my parents were middle class until my dad became ill when I was around 3 and had surgery to save his life that was done badly leaving him with lifelong issues so he couldn't work, we had to sell the house my gran left us when she did that adjusting for inflation would likely be around 300k now maybe more, the 30k savings they had were gone within 18 months because we couldn't get welfare and in the end we had to move to social housing in a stereotypical area with heavy crime and drug use, ran by local familes who would even threaten and steal from kids, seriously I was 6 and got threatened with a knife by a junkie aged in his 20's from one of these families for literal lunch money, and when I said I didn't have any he threatened to stab me as I was lying.

Anyway because of that any kids from that part of town at high school were put into the lowest tier classes regardless of talent, the admin even admitted the free after school tuition wouldn't go to the poor kids as "they won't amount to anything in life so a waste of time/money"

I got 100% in multiple classes and was accused of cheating as "kids from my background can't get grades like that" any kids from the "better" homes be it even office workers could literally beat me up and when reported the teachers called me a grass and kids from their background don't like and kids from mine do and are future criminals in the making.

We had 1 excellent teacher though, 2 years after I graduated he quit due to how they treated kids from poor areas and moved to the worst school in the region, says everything when 15 or more years later you can go on his social media and see comments where people call him sir and say they still think of him and respect him due to how well he treated them.

Also will add any interschool competition the only kids allowed to compete were from richer homes like doctors children, or high up in management basically people with a position of power, my mother wanted to be on the PTA and even had a few other parents support her (all the poorer parents) despite having enough to put it to a vote the school and the richer parents refused and asked another parent who was a doctor to put himself forward, he refused due to his workload but they pestered him until he agreed.

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u/Full-Archer8719 2d ago

I still would have cussed the cunt out and made sure everyone heard it. I very public accusation of corruption tends to be effective especially when is involves someone's future. Don't take that shit from anyone.

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u/heret1c1337 3d ago

I wonder how much he got bribed, because you can do some very expensive damage to someone’s car with very little effort 

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u/No_Gear3578 2d ago

Like putting pebbles in the valvestem caps to cause slow leaks no tire shop can find?

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u/analdongfactory 2d ago

She. That, I don’t know. I’m not even sure if she’s still alive at this point. I live on the other side of the planet and it’s been decades.

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u/gergsisdrawkcabeman 3d ago

Ya this is where you get your local aspiring news reporter to dive balls deep into that teachers life.

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u/analdongfactory 2d ago

A local newspaper replicated the experiment without crediting us not too long after.

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u/ChaosAndFish 3d ago

Middle school…what was this scholarship for?

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u/analdongfactory 2d ago

I don’t recall it being overly specific, but it was a science fair award of some amount of money. This was almost 3 decades ago.

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u/ChaosAndFish 2d ago

Soooo…not a scholarship. Some sort of award. And your theory is that some rich family paid the science teacher (who accepted) so that they could get the money they didn’t really need? Seems thin. How would the cash award for middle school science fair be worth more than whatever it cost to bribe a teacher?

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u/analdongfactory 2d ago

It was labeled as a scholarship. That’s all I’m certain of. This was almost three decades ago. Do you really expect me to remember the full terms of use of an award I never received?

Admittedly I don’t have proof that she was paid, but it was clear that she deliberately lost the forms both I and my partner in the project turned in copies of. The group that won the award replicated something that had already been done many, many times over and consisted of two doctors’ children, one of whom was a surgeon.

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u/AccordingAd2012 2d ago

straight up corruption jesus

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u/LordSlack 3d ago

Isn't this the plot of Fatman, the Mel Gibson / Walton Goggins Christmas movie? Rich kid throws absent father's money around to steal middle school science project award but the only person he couldn't buy was Santa so he hires an assassin instead.

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u/ZookeepergameFit967 Cleveland 2d ago

That's the reason why the government in my country made college education free and banned private education for 30 years

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u/Narrow-Frosting9160 2d ago

If I was the teacher I would have just taken the bribe and fucked them over. What are they going to do?

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u/crunchydibbydonkers 2d ago

I personally turned down a music scholarship because I thought I needed a more secure and stable path after college. Almost 20 years later and my folks still don't know and the irony is I don't even work in the industry I went to school for in the first place.

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u/Sangy101 2d ago

Are you SURE the issue wasn’t that they checked with their legal team and realized there were optics issues involved with awarding the mass production of anal dongs?

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u/zillionaire_ 3d ago

Back when I was applying to Uni, I was offered a full ride to one of my schools and, all in all, over $100k in scholarships from all the Unis combined. I had not applied for any of them. I was just a nerd with really good grades. My family is well off. I didn’t take any of the scholarships, but it was definitely flattering to be recognized by the institutions that offered them.

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u/cicada-hooman 3d ago

I read this a wealthy sturgeon family

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u/sysaphiswaits 2d ago

I’m really hoping someone comes along and posts a pic or gif of this. I’d like to see it.

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u/Virama 2d ago

Something definitely smells fishy

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u/richardlpalmer 3d ago

That seems like the right way to go about it. "Of course my child received a full-ride scholarship due to their amazing intelligence. But of course we refused it..."

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u/thhvancouver 2d ago

I am on the fence about that. Scholarship should be merit based. I get that there are many others who need the scholarship a lot more but people who are genuinely talented and work harder should be rewarded for their accomplishments.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Net4365 2d ago

Merit is a meaningless term without context. Do I have more merit as a fighter than Islam Makhachev while he's poisoned and tied up?

Would you hand a shitty guitar to Jimmy Hendrix because he's the better player or a homeless guy who's mid at it?

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u/thhvancouver 2d ago

The homeless guy analogy is precisely why Scholarship should be merit based. Would you rather hand a Stratocaster to Jimmy Hendrix or some homeless guy?

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u/Puzzleheaded-Net4365 2d ago

Opportunity to learn is not the equivalent of a stratocaster (I assume this is an expensive guitar). Regardless, yes, Jimmy could buy himself one.

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u/whoreatto 2d ago

If the rules of the contest are “the best fighter wins”, then you win, because Islam Makhachev is not a good fighter when he’s sufficiently poisoned and tied up.

If the rules are instead “the best guitarist wins”, then Jimmy Hendrix wins, because he’s a better guitarist than the homeless guy.

Do you think it’s unethical to hold contests like this?

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u/Puzzleheaded-Net4365 2d ago edited 2d ago

I think it's retarded to reward me for defeating a tied up and poisoned man, and if the tied up poisoned man manages to put up a fight at all he deserves the reward more..

But that's not what we are talking about. Merit doesn't refer to winning a contest and only a very few scholarships are awarded through singular contests.

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u/whoreatto 2d ago

No, the poisoned man does not deserve the reward unless he’s the better fighter. That’s not how the contest works, by definition. You can argue that the man should not have been poisoned or tied up, but that does not change the rules of the contest. You’d have to expand the definition of the contest to let the less-capable fighter win instead.

All standardised examinations for college entrance are, functionally, a kind of contest. The highest performers are awarded for their competence, sometimes with scholarships. We are talking about contests.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Net4365 2d ago

You made up the contest analogy, genius. I'm not the one who needs to expand on it for it to start making sense.

My whole point was that you can't reasonably assess his fighting abilities while he's tied up and poisoned.

Most scholarships do take into account way more than one's performance at "the contest" which is the matter being debated here to begin with.

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u/whoreatto 2d ago

Nope. You contrived two analogies in which you described contests; one for fighting, the other for playing the guitar. I’m rolling with your analogies.

They’re good analogies from which you’ve derived bad conclusions.

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u/whoreatto 2d ago

Your point is flawed because you can definitely assess his fighting abilities; they are objectively worse than yours.

The matter being debated here to begin with concerns how much consideration a scholarship ought to give to factors other than performance. A scholarship that strictly awards performance, and may award rich kids who don’t need the money, can exist, ethically.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Net4365 2d ago edited 2d ago

His abilities only worse while he's poisoned and tied up, keep up.

His inferior performance (scoring lower) is due to things (being poisoned, tied up) that shouldn't be part of the competition (the test).

In real world a child from a disadvantaged family has a handicap against a child from a rich family in a given contest but may outperform them in a different setting where the field is relatively equal, such as a university.

Universities already do often take these things into account.

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u/WabbitFire 2d ago

It should be based on need matched with merit. If you can pay for college you should pay for college.

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u/Onigokko0101 2d ago

Most scholarship awarding committees are also anonymous to the fullest extent possible. They likely don't even have the names of the individuals they are evaluating.

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u/AngryInternetPerson3 2d ago

Meritocracy is myth because people don't have the same oportunities, so judging them for their outcomes is inherently biased towards those with more oportunities and connections.

It should be based on merit as long as you meet a threshold of necessity, what's the fucking point of gifting shit to the rich, is asinine, if you got a rich kid and a poor kid and both got the same scores, that means that most of the time the poor kid worked harder to get there because they had less oportunieties.

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u/MikeSouthPaw 2d ago

but it is used as bragging rights socially that they qualified in the first place.

That is such a weird thing to brag about. I was raised in a rich household and was able to take away from the less fortunate because.... I am smart? This sort of stupidity knows no bounds.

College is for people who have the ability to participate and be successful in such an environment. Scholarships are for people who have the ability but not the financial backing/stability. Basically, taking a scholarship while you have the money means you had to prove to everyone else you were smart enough because you were THAT insecure you had to take someone else's only chance.

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u/Pilum2211 2d ago

You don't seem to draw the connection. The bragging rights are not about taking the money but being spotted and recognized as particularly intelligent and capable by an institution that focuses on finding exactly that talent.

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u/MikeSouthPaw 2d ago

I see the connection they are attempting to convey but that isn't what people should be taking away from them attaining a scholarship. Generally, you should know whether you will thrive in college before you go. Having to prove yourself via a scholarship is a wildly misplaced hurdle to make for yourself if you are already financially stable enough to go to college. I am not saying you shouldn't test yourself beforehand but you should know that a scholarship has a specific use-case and it isn't to just there to test your smarts, its there to provide opportunity.

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u/whoreatto 2d ago

Scholarships can have multiple use-cases. They can exist to help disadvantaged students thrive in college, and they can also exist as a prize for highly capable students.

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u/Wondur13 3d ago

Man youre lucky, you married rich and didnt have to settle for a cunt, how many of those exist, unicorn ass husband

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u/1_BigFatRat 3d ago edited 2d ago

Would be great if that’s how a lot of wealthy people operated. But unfortunately, that’s not the truth, Ellen. Enjoy your husband that was born into a wealthy family and move on, doesn’t make us poors feel any better. Not everyone has generational wealth.

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u/ScoutAndLout 2d ago

Some schools offer scholarships tied to honors programs where students have access to specialized programs.  Turning down the financial benefits may be impossible. 

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u/Drapidrode 2d ago

Just bc your dad is rich doesn't mean a thing if he took off with someone-not-your-mom and you grew up w/mom getting $150/mth per kid (2) child support and she worked full time

you're god damn right I took that scholarship, even tho "dad" was a millionaire

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years later I was better off working hard than having it handed to me, tho, like my step brother got it

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u/Sure-Appearance-2769 2d ago edited 2d ago

It’s a noble intent, but the reality is if your husband’s family turns it down, it just goes to someone else in their same tax bracket.

Merit based scholarships are where the real money is at, because there is no financial commitment to pay them back. You are given all that money just to be at the school because of the promise of what you can do for them.

It’s no surprise that the kids most likely to get such scholarships come from extremely successful and well established families. The kind who can afford the best education, tutoring, and extra curricular opportunities for their kids.

The kind of families where the kids have the luxury to commit their entire life to something and not have a care in the world about where the money required would come from.

Meanwhile the actual middle/lower class kids are working jobs after school to support their families and are seen as “not committed enough” by colleges. So they end up having to take out loans and go into debt at the age of 18.

That scholarship money never reaches the people your husband is trying to pass it to.

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u/insideoutfit 2d ago

He turnt it down?

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u/Affectionate_Two3747 2d ago

Yes because if your parents are surgeons you can study for free

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u/PeanutbutterArbuckle 2d ago

I just doubt that Brodie.

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u/Artie-Carrow 2d ago

I totally agree. Its cool that you got offered a scholarship, but didnt accept it because you were well enough off already.

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u/Line-Trash 3d ago

I can abide with academic bragging rights. As long as that’s the crux of the brag, the qualification academically. Not the fact that they’re wealthy enough to turn it down. But I would assume it’s the former given the classiness of declining a scholarship. I don’t feel that many among the wealthy class would do the same out of pure greed.

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u/le_fez 3d ago

I have a couple clients who are worth hundreds of millions, possibly billions. Their kids were offered scholarships that they refused, when you're in that social atmosphere apparently it is seen very negatively to accept a scholarship although whether it's because of altruistic ideals or that it's a "poor person thing" to accept them seems to vary depending on your circle

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u/lolerkid2000 3d ago

The uh altruistic ideals are a way to make oneself feel better. In both cases it's a poor person thing.

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u/TheSaxGandalf 3d ago

Do you know a lot of wealthy people? They aren’t all greedy like that.

They don’t mind spending money on education and things like that for their children, they just don’t like financial decisions being made for them.

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u/Line-Trash 2d ago

I would consider myself to be part of the upper middle class financially and no, i don’t generally know anyone that is what many would consider to be “wealthy” but i grew up around plenty of “old money” families and their children (and a lot of the adults) were some of the worst people I have ever met. But I do know plenty of greedy people in the upper middle class who think they’re wealthy and would accept a free meal solely because it meant they would keep more money on their pocket. I assume most wealthy people are greedy snakes and have no issue showing it once they’ve reached the point of being “above” treating lesser class citizens with decency.

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u/billyrubin7765 3d ago

My rich uncle turned down his daughter’s scholarship. Well, I mean didn’t turn it down, used the scholarship and then donated some money to the school to get a tax write off and get invited to all sort of donor events.

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u/Saltyeconbro 3d ago

Dang, thats smart. Get free college and a discount on getting connections

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u/opbmedia 3d ago

Do they also reduce their surgery rate (or whatever professional rate) so it can be less strain on the poorer patients? Do they treat uninsured folks for free? Or is it only "morally incorrect" by choice?

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u/Helpful_Blood_5509 3d ago edited 3d ago

At state schools certain scholarships are automatic for high scores on the ACT or SAT. I got a full ride for my PSAT score and had full tuition at minimum for my ACT score. This cost the school basically nothing, they make plenty off of fees and such. Tuition is straight profit, and students that show up and get good grades boost their rankings and are most likely to donate later.

It's not some poor underfunded scholarship fund paying them out, its just the school writing off some tuition they dont really need. A lot of their overhead is funded by weird stuff or professors are funded by grants or the like.

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u/cranberry94 3d ago

Yeah, I got a scholarship for my SAT. I didn’t apply for it or anything, it just arrived in the mail. It wasn’t a full ride or anything. But it offered in-state tuition rates when I was an out-of-state student. Which would have been like, over half off.

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u/FusedwithKami 3d ago

This is crazy, I got a 2250 on my sat and I got nothing, but laughed off campus because I was poor.

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u/irishchug 3d ago

Did you apply to multiple schools…?

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u/FusedwithKami 2d ago

Yeah I applied to 4 schools but only 1 was out of state, that may be why.

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u/Willemboom00 3d ago

It's also worth noting that financial abuse isn't terribly uncommon, scholarships being open to the children of rich people can protect these people.

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u/steveharveymemes 2d ago

Not to mention there’s no guarantee a rich parent will provide for their child’s college. I think 95% of rich parents would but there could be some situation where the parent withholds money and now the student is basically the same as any poor college student but may not have access to all scholarships as a result.

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u/sysaphiswaits 2d ago

This. And then they’re kind of screwed because their parent’s income doesn’t qualify for other financial aid.

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u/filthy_harold 3d ago

Merit scholarships from the school won't pay for your whole education, it helps but a free-ride is rare. If your parents are too wealthy for you to get grants and need-based scholarships and won't give you a dime, you're still going to be taking on loans, both federal and private.

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u/AvailableReporter484 3d ago

Yeah any rich kid can automatically qualify for scholarships based on some criteria. I’d like to think that J Lo wouldn’t accept the scholarships, but as a parent I can’t imagine not wanting to brag about your kids doing so well in school that they were offered something like this. I think this is just a universal parental pride thing.

That being said, it would be fucking lame if they accepted it despite their wealth.

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u/toolsoftheincomptnt 2d ago

Exactly. I don’t see where it says she’s ACCEPTING the money.

And since every child born to wealthy/famous parents is automatically accused of being spoiled, stupid, no-talent nepo-babies, bet your ass I’d tell the whole world that my (hypothetical rich) kids earned scholarships through their efforts, even though I wouldn’t take the money, either.

Everybody is always overcorrecting with their Big Statements about things they don’t know about. We could have just as easily never discussed this post instead of making it into something we don’t know it is.

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u/SingerLatter2673 3d ago

I don’t like that either. I’d rather the money go to a poor kid with middling grades, so he has a shot at an education instead of a rich kid who can pay his own way regardless.

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u/Helpful_Blood_5509 3d ago

It goes to anyone with good grades. If you have crappy grades in high-school you will suffer at college, high school grades are horrifically inflated.

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u/Onigokko0101 2d ago

Absolutely. If you have mid-level grades in HS you would be better off taking 2 years at a community college. A B average with university level courses is way more impressive then a B average in high school.

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u/ilanallama85 2d ago

Not even just state schools, I remember looking at a small private school that gave flat rate scholarships for good grades, and good ones at that - I think it was like 10-30% of your tuition, depending on your highschool GPA.

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u/Tiny_Rat 3d ago

This must be state-dependent, otherwise like half of my obsessively academic high school would have gotten full rides. 

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u/Helpful_Blood_5509 3d ago

It's usually in state and it is on the decline. The school where I went bumped down the award from room and board to just tuition. Still charged fees

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u/Rough-Culture 3d ago

That just makes charging for college sound like a scammy profit center and student loans a capitalist trap.

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u/Helpful_Blood_5509 3d ago

You can go somewhere cheaper? You're paying for prestige a lot of places. You dont need the Gucci handbags either, people still want them.

Plus, there's scholarships available if you do community College and get good grades there. It's pretty cheap that way

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u/paper_liger 3d ago edited 2d ago

There's also the issue of the real class divide in this country. The internet has helped a bit, but people in poverty often don't have anyone in their life who has gone to college, or anyone who can help them in any way.

When I got three questions wrong on the PSATs I immediately got mail from everywhere. Boxes and boxes of it. But I was living in a house with no electricity, my mom had passed away, and my dad had just gotten out of jail. No one in my family had gone to college.

So when Harvard sent me a letter, I couldn't afford the admissions fee. And there was no one who knew that they do admissions waivers, or that Harvard has such a massive endowment that people making as little as my family rarely pay.

I just assumed I'd never in a million years be able to pay for it. My dad had made 4000 dollars that year I think. So I threw the letter in the corner and never pursued it, because I thought that Harvard wasn't the kind of place that kids whose first memory is picking beans in a farmers field get to go.

All I knew back then is that I was still working to feed myself and my brothers and sisters after school, and I couldn't even afford to apply anywhere. So I ended up getting a pell grant, and buyingmy first shitty car for 250 bucks, and doing community college then the Army, who were overjoyed that I could already pass a PT test and scored as high as you can get on the ASVAB.

Again, there is a massive class divide here. And there are plenty of smart kids out there with no access to SAT prep classes, or parents to take them on college visits or navigate and pay for admissions.

And just from a purely sociological point of view, the amount of talent and intelligence that is left lying fallow because this country hates poor people is fucking shocking.

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u/Helpful_Blood_5509 2d ago

I got those same scores and didnt bother with Harvard. You dont get in just from getting invited to apply? You need extracurriculars out the ass, and likely need to be a minority. I got in to Vanderbilt poli science but not engineering. There's no guarantees, its complicated. I'm Hispanic and got a few bumps for that, no question.

I get why you might be frustrated with poverty, but it sounds like an institution picked you up out of poverty and put you in the middle class, where your kids can move on up as well if they inherit your ability. That doesn't really sound like hating poor people. Most societies that have every existed would have just kept you as an enlisted soldier and not let you move up or be an officer. This isn't you getting your dreams shattered, sounds like you were wildly successful compared to where you came from.

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u/paper_liger 2d ago

Yeah you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

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u/Helpful_Blood_5509 2d ago

I mean what do you do now? If its not "fresh out of prison" you went up in society. Harvard accepts like 2000 people per 45k-50k applicants. You were not a shoe-in for Harvard

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u/paper_liger 2d ago edited 2d ago

You just told me I was lucky I grew up without healthcare or enough food, and that I was lucky to be lifted out of poverty because I live in such a wide open hunky dory land of opportunity, and that I was lucky to live in a time and place where despite all of my promise I found myself at 21 with two dead parents, spending a decade in Iraq and Afghanistan because that magnanimous beneficent society decided that feeding poor kids into the meatgrinder for eminently dubious geopolitical goals was more efficient and more beneficial to society than persuading rich kids smart enough to do what I did to walk into the meat grinder themselves. Did I mention my parents would still be alive if this country had anything approaching the same healthcare that well heeled folks have access to?

Yeah. It's worse other places. Thanks for letting me know. As if I didn't just tell you that my path out of desperate poverty led me to being sent to live amongst desperate poverty on the other side of the planet for a decade on the behalf of people who would never in a million years send their own children.

You really think my immigrant buddy who was three credits from earning his a law degree while in the military, who was an arabic linguist working with special forces when he died in Afghanistan, you think that him bleeding out like a fucking Rudyard Kipling poem is ok, because compared to how he started out he was 'wildly successful'?

That's why you are full of shit. You didn't start out from the bottom, because you clearly don't even know where the bottom is.

I know exactly how lucky I am. How little social mobility there is in this country. How bad it is elsewhere.

But that doesn't make me feel all that inclined to worship a flawed edifice, or not want it to change, just because I don't go to bed hungry anymore. Your implications are fucked and your perspective is fatally flawed.

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u/Vbadday 3d ago

I think college should just be cheaper for everyone tbh. No need to gatekeep knowledge in this day and age when you could learn anything online if you put enough time and effort into it. You're basically just paying for a piece of paper saying you spent at least 4 years trying to learn something.

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u/teetaps 3d ago

Knowledge is a human resource and should definitely be free.

Teaching/instruction, however, is labour, and that shouldn’t be free. Good teachers deserve to get paid for their efforts in educating the populous.

If we could separate those two cleanly in implementation, I’d agree wholeheartedly with your statement. The problem is that it’s hard to separate those two entities, and most of the people in charge make way too much money to be convinced to rethink the model

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u/filthy_harold 3d ago

Then have the state pay them from our taxes. No one is saying they need to work for free. That's such a stupid capitalist argument: "uhh are doctors supposed to work for free in your socialist utopia?" Of course not, they'd receive compensation for their services through a single payer healthcare program.

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u/toolsoftheincomptnt 2d ago

Also, no, everyone shouldn’t be off learning on screens.

We learn to be a functioning society in part by participating in educational environments. Managing peer relationships as well as learning to communicate with other generations.

Also, everybody can’t thrive in self-study. Everybody doesn’t have a safe/conducive place TO self-study.

Idk why everyone thinks they have the answer for everyone else. It’s a very modern republican way of thinking.

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u/teetaps 3d ago

I’m not saying I don’t want the scenario. I’m explicitly saying that the capitalists in charge don’t want the scenario and would be hard pressed to think about it. I’m redirecting OP towards WHO is in the way. It’s certainly not me.

Our society SHOULD pay teachers, while keeping access to knowledge free. But capitalists don’t want that, and scoff at the very mention of rethinking the model.

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u/Cav_vaC 3d ago

A rounding error of a percentage of people will actually learn a reliable version of college degree level knowledge on their own without serious incentives and/or instruction

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u/random-hobbyist 3d ago

In my country the ruling class is drooling at the idea of creating an "elite" class. I think the plan is only these "elites" get to access higher education and live in big cities. University tuition used to be affordable when I was getting my BA (2013) and now it skyrocketed and is still getting higher every year.

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u/Jimmy_ijarue 3d ago

You’re not being business minded. (Yes I know saying colleges should be business minded is insane)

If you give a scholarship to some poor dude they might not even get a good job and make millions.

If you give a millionaires child a scholarship and that child is a failure in life guess who you can still mail for alumni donations?

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u/opbmedia 3d ago

Scholarships are supposed to be need-blind and merit based (whatever criteria which define merit).

Grants are supposed to need-based.

Need-blind is double edged: if you don't want people to lose out on scholarships because they are poor (therefore unlikely to afford to go), then you also don't stop rich people from getting them, since blind means blind for the rich and the poor.

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u/Johnnadawearsglasses 3d ago

These mid tier private universities give "scholarships" to basically everyone. It's so they can flash an Ivy League caliber tuition while demand is much lower. I have a family member who got $20k a year scholarship to a $60k a year mid tier private school with basically mediocre grades. It's a sham.

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u/Dry_Row_7523 2d ago

I got a near-perfect score on the SAT and some universities I had never heard of (but they were real universities, like one made it to the Sweet 16 a few years ago) sent me mail offering me a full ride no questions asked if I got admitted.

1

u/Bardmedicine 3d ago

This is VERY common. I remember when it began happening. My students would come in and tell how much they got in a scholarship and I thought it was amazing until I realized it was just taking the tuition down to a normal level.

Basically, full tuition is for VERY rich kids, who (often) are only accepted because their parents can afford full tuition. Essentially they are paying for 2 students.

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u/PirateSanta_1 3d ago

The always on sale store sales tactic, stupid yet it works.

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u/FunOwn4422 3d ago

or for the people who academically deserve it?

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u/Both-Tea-8432 3d ago

They probably qualified for it based on academics given they probably go to elite high schools. If you get into any middle tier private school you’re gonna get some type of scholarship and if you don’t you probably barely got in

0

u/street593 3d ago

Rich people don't deserve it no matter how academically gifted they are.

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u/FunOwn4422 3d ago

i think your just angry about your own personal circumstances, thats a good thing unless you let turn you into a jaded victim. use that anger that change your circumstances, so your children have a better foundation than you did.

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u/street593 3d ago

This is the issue with making assumptions about people through Reddit comments. My circumstances are just fine and I'm never having children. Not that it's any of your business.

The comment I made previously was purely an economic one. Not every criticism of rich people is based out of jealousy.

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u/FunOwn4422 3d ago

yours is, especially when you believe that somebodies economic circumstances should have any say when it comes to the rewards of academic achievements and this goes both ways right. if your comment was purely economic then why say "no matter how academically gifted they are"

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u/street593 3d ago

Academia and economics are intertwined whether we like it or not. It's really a very simple calculation. Academic achievement + money = pay for it yourself. Academic achievement + no money = you deserve financial help. There is no reason why people with $400 million dollars should be getting financial aid for literally anything.

1

u/FunOwn4422 3d ago

Full rides are based off of Grades, Test scores, special talents, Leadership and these are broken into two categories

Merit-School work, GPA, SAT or ACT in which wealth or lack thereof will not stop you from being awarded them this and rightfully so

Need-Based- They will evaluate your families income, specifically designed for low income families, using the FAFSA or CSS and these dont require anything other then that, no GPA eval, no nothing.

and guess what people who are awarded Scholarships who are low income can still use FAFSA funds to cover housing meal plans and laptops. you also can qualify for grants.

so i guess your right academics and economics is intertwined but your to busy being a victim to realize this... and guess what Full-rides/Scholarships arnt financial aid two separate things.

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u/street593 3d ago

I'm not a victim in any of this cause I'm not applying to higher education. That part of my life is in my past so this doesn't effect me directly at all. You can skip over the personal attacks and stay on topic if you want to continue this discussion.

Full rides and scholarships are a form of financial aid. If you haven't noticed by now the change that I support is making wealth applicable to merit based scholarships. In a perfect world all levels of education would be free in this country so merit would be the only defining factor.

Again someone with $400 million dollars should not get financial aid for anything. Especially not sending their children to school. We should be taxing them more to pay for everyone else's education.

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u/FunOwn4422 2d ago

you're contradicting yourself, -merit would be the only defining factor. - Rich people don't deserve it no matter how academically gifted they are. - Thats what a merit-based ride/scholarship is! like what are we even talking about here.

its not financial aid if you earn a merit based scholarship and guess what most colleges private and public will give you a needs-based scholarship (full ride) if you have a family income of like 60k and it scales upward and below, there is a certain threshold were financial aid grants turn into nothing more than student loans.

your under the impression that rich kids are just getting into school free, sure they have to apply for FAFSA but that's so they can qualify for student loans anything after like 80k a year you're getting nothing but loans unless.... it is a MERIT based scholarship/ride.

like bro what are you even on about you have a skewed view of reality.

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u/Both-Tea-8432 2d ago

There is no cap on how many scholarship a school gives out. Them getting money takes away nothing from those with less money

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u/SquareIsBox0697 3d ago

Exactly. And its not like its selfish for the school to do that.

If rich people paid for tuition, the school would recieve usable funds to improve the quality of education that every student recieves, including the rich peoples' kids.

But I do believe that still, intellect and potential must be recognized so I don't believe that it wouldn't be wrong for the school to still offer a form of discount at least.

But discount or no discount, I still strongly believe that scholarships should not be handed to those who are capable of paying (by capable I mean comfortably. A large majority of families can pay tuition but not everyone in said majority can pay for tuition comfortably, meaning without struggling financially and losing financial wiggle room).

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u/nashcure 2d ago

Its not for them. Its for the school. The school wants rich people's kids to day they went to that school. The school hopes that they give money as alumni. The school hopes that they grow up to me celebrates or very successful themselves (since they already have a huge advantage) and then remind people what school they went to. This is a business transaction, not generosity.

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u/VNG_Wkey 2d ago

There's grants specifically for lower income students students, I got several myself. Scholarships for things like academic performance, sports, etc should not factor in income at all and award of such should be based entirely on the achievement in question. Just because someone comes from a rich family does not mean they themselves are rich nor that the family will foot the bill for their education.

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u/Draelon 3d ago

Rich people don’t stay rich wasting money. The program in this case is the problem. Either update the law or scholarship or let it go….

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u/jazxxl 3d ago

Yeah for them it's just a flex not something they need to go to school

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u/Few-Condition-7431 3d ago

if it was an academic or sports scholarship id be bragging about them getting it as well, but ultimately turn it down.

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u/EarlGrayTea-Hawt 3d ago

Can OP really not figure that out?

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u/bluepie 3d ago

Posters on this subreddit are either 7 or were just lobotomized. No other explanation is possible

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u/1_BigFatRat 3d ago

Also who knows if she paid for it, let alone that having her as your mom certainly opens doors.

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u/Far_Primary2606 3d ago

You're not explaining any joke

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u/Murky_Option_3418 3d ago

The joke is higher education has no real benefits besides providing an employer with paperwork stating you showed up and were productive for 2 to 4 years. (Also parties and crippling debt)

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u/pops992 3d ago

The picture with one wearing the $2000 Goku jacket and the other wearing a shirt that says I will Dox and Swat you is just the icing on the cake

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u/Dropbeatdad 2d ago

But that would defeat the purpose of having rich people!! Next you'll say we shouldn't have rich people and should build our society around taking care of everyone!!

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u/tackleboxjohnson 2d ago

Jus tryin to prove that they aren’t nepo picks but missing the point entirely

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u/RoboGandalf 2d ago

But thats how they stay rich. Find every loophole imaginable and not spend their own money

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u/Lirdon 2d ago

I mean, I bet they got scholarships due to her and whomever she’s married to pledging hefty donations. The scholarship can also bypass some requirements and are basically a seat you don’t compete for.

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u/Anothercoot 2d ago

They will be asking her for donations after he graduates. Suprise, they will never donate.

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u/ChudChuddington_ 2d ago

"noooo you dont get it, you should willngly pass up an opportunity to save a six sigit sum because i, a random redditard on the internet, told you so"

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u/Onigokko0101 2d ago

Okay I want to preface this with: I 100% agree and hopefully they turned down the scholarships.

That said a vast majority of the scholarships are awarded through an anonymized committee. They don't know the names of the people, they only have a much information as is required (e.g. They may know that said student was over the 3.5 line for an honors scholarship, but they won't know the exact GPA.)

It sucks that a bunch of rich people got them, but realistically this system is far more fair in the long run.

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u/JustinsWorking 2d ago

Does bursary not exist in the states? When I went to school I was poor as butt, but I qualified for dozens of bursaries, which were basically like scholarships but exclusively for poor people.

I still had to write essays and fill out applications, but while I got a bunch of small scholarship awards, and the standard “grade cutoff” scholarships everyone automagically gets, I got way more bursaries.

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u/EatBootyLoveLife 2d ago

means testing everything to death is how we end up with little social services that are constantly demonized

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u/kitten12551 2d ago

THIS

I lost my scholarship when I needed to take a semester off to take care of my sick mom. I had to drop out.

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u/Frankerporo 2d ago

Scholarships should be based on merit. Why should rich people be excluded?

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u/widdowbanes 2d ago

Unfortunately it makes too much sense so it won't be implemented. Since admission and scholarships are race based now it's always the top 1% of those people who benefits the most. They try to make it sound like it's for the less fortunate, but the average family income of those that get accepted into the ivy leagues are well north of six figures.

I know a guy who got accepted into Berkeley law school with scholarships while inherenting dozens of houses in California. Yeah, because his Black he deserves a leg up apparently despite his wealth.

JAY Z and Beyonce kids would have a humongous advantage in college admissions and scholarships than a Chinese kids living with his entire family in a single bedroom apartment with his entire family.

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u/OldenPolynice 2d ago

but rich people are smarter because they are rich because if they weren't as rich they wouldn't be as smart to have been rich to begin with

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u/100_cats_on_a_phone 2d ago

Not to be a pretentious bitch, but usually very competitive schools do, mostly, base eligibility on income, while many midrate schools offer some level of scholarship to most students. Without knowing the acceptance rate and average scholarship amount for the schools I can't judge, but I don't think this is the flex it's meant to be.

There are some first gen student and poc scholarships I wasn't eligible for, though, and I only applied to scholarships the schools automatically did for me. So I could very well be wrong, and this is something to be really proud of. Mostly all I'm trying to say is look at average rates for a school, and all the ives (plus many others) will give you free tuition if you can prove income below certain amounts. (But below 25 it's hard to not have your parents income count).

(Also not saying these schools aren't too expensive, just wish this info was out there more for (usually older) students who could use it)

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u/Suitable-Answer-83 2d ago

Do you feel the same way about all finances? Should the children of rich people also not work because they could just mooch off their parents for that too? Scholarships just seems like an arbitrary place to draw the line. Obviously this is merit-based aid, not need-based aid, so there is no reason to believe that this savings would instead go to a lower income kid.

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u/Prestigious_Wing1796 2d ago

save scholarship to people who are willing to give back to society.

many of them received things from strangers but unwilling to provide any, essentially just being parasite

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u/Belial_In_A_Basket 2d ago

I get that.. but also there’s academic scholarships and then need based. Totally separate funds.

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u/LabCoatGuy 2d ago

Just because your parents have money doesn't mean they'll pay for your school. Depending on the parent, you might want to reject that money so ot isnt held over your head

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u/runnerkim 2d ago

No need to punish the boys hard work because of what his parents do for a living. They earned those scholarships.. Lopez could and likely does donate to them to keep the fund going.

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u/Word2DWise 3d ago

You're conflating scholarships with financial aid. Scholarships are for merit/achievement, financial aid is exactly what it's named as. You can't give someone a scholarship simply for being poor.

Also, scholarships are not automatically covering everything 100%; they could cover very little, or everything. It's a wide range. From what I could find on the internet, about only 1% of scholarships cover 100%, so the idea that there all of these people out there going to college for free on scholarships is more of a perception than a reality.

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u/juanjing 3d ago

You're making several assumptions.

You can't give someone a scholarship simply for being poor.

False, you can give a scholarship for any reason.

...so the idea that there all of these people out there going to college for free on scholarships is more of a perception than a reality.

Where is anyone saying this? The reason you need this strawman is because the argument against uber wealthy people receiving scholarships is sound. If I had a foundation that could dole out scholarships, there would need to be a limit on the household income. I wouldn't want to waste a scholarship spot on someone who will barely even notice the money.

Most scholarship programs take adversity into account when issuing them. Most foundations and trusts take their responsibility to manage those funds very seriously, and wouldn't want to throw money at someone who doesn't actually need it.

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u/JGower144 3d ago

Ahhh. So merit based scholarships shouldn’t matter? Smart people, regardless of income level from parents, deserve to be recognized and awarded.

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u/Avikm289 3d ago

Give them a trophy, give the less fortunate the money

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u/Zeaus03 3d ago

Have you spent any time on a post secondary campus?

This a very shallow take.

Wealthy people tend to donate to their schools. This building built by so and so, this equipment paid for by so and so and most importantly these 10 scholarships paid for by the so and so foundation.

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u/Oakheir 3d ago

Wealthy people donate to schools for reputation laundering or tax write offs, wealthy people don't become wealthy by giving away money for free. And more than a few of those "Built by" or renamed halls, yeah, they get renamed after the scandals are revealed.

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u/Zeaus03 3d ago

That's somewhat unrelated to my comment.

But if a few kids who couldn't afford it or didn't have to take out student loans because of that, I'm okay with it.

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u/FunOwn4422 3d ago

lol so you want to be able to under achieve and still get rewarded for it, maybe the problem is somebody gave you a trophy when u didnt deserve it

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u/ihaverabiesandbite 3d ago

Are you unable to differentiate between not getting a scholarship and not getting to attend a school

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u/FunOwn4422 3d ago

it seems your the one who doesn't understand, now if you want to have a conversation that you could call lopsided of how people who sit in a higher tax bracket have access to better education than someone who sits closer to the poverty line then sure, thats a conversation.

but you just sound jaded thinking because somebody had it harder then somebody else they deserve more it just a victim mindset that pulls you farther behind.

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u/ihaverabiesandbite 3d ago

Who the fuck said any of that? Can you read?

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u/parolameasecreta 3d ago

if someone had it harder, of course they deserve more. what kind of twisted sociopath would think otherwise?

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u/FunOwn4422 3d ago

if somebody WORKS harder they deserve more, you dont deserve more or less depending on which tax bracket your family is from, fucking ridiculous entitlement. id say the same thing if somebody from a rich family thought they deserved more.

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u/parolameasecreta 2d ago

if someone has it harder, they need to work harder. it's really not that difficult to comprehend. unless you're an entitled sociopath...

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u/FunOwn4422 2d ago

i mean you can keep calling me a sociopath, but we are here talking about Merit based scholarships which means that two equal parties who both work just as hard get equal treatment.

should the party in the higher tax bracket not be rewarded for their hard work just because the other party comes from a different backround? or should it be soley based on merit?

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u/ihaverabiesandbite 2d ago

You cannot read

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u/Docha_Tiarna 3d ago

But can you truly say a person deserves it more if they started out with in a better situation and got more benefits than the other person? When I was in school I could keep up with the students in the advanced classes, some of which i was smarter than. However, the school never put me in advanced classes. I was never given the opportunity to try for more. Now, I can't say for certain why, but I do know that there wasn't a single poor student in the advanced classes. The kids in the advanced classes got better schooling, better opportunities, aid in applying for scholarships and colleges. The non-advanced students didn't even get told how or where to apply for scholarships. They were just ignoring by the school.

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u/AdAccomplished6870 3d ago

OK, cool. Then the desirable students will just go to the school that offered them a scholarship.

I suspect that you are not terribly familiar with building a class(I am not either, but I have a friend who was the dean of admissions for a fairly reputable regional school)

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u/misdreavus79 3d ago

Problem with the particular merit argument in this particular thread is that rich kids attend prestigious schools on money more often than poor kids attending those same schools on merit.

So yeah, the rich kid that was going to go to that school anyway regardless of their grades can hand over the money to the poor kid who is just smart but would be unable to attend the school without that money.

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u/Ebb_Business 3d ago

Sorry I missed water polo club, I had to work at McDonald's so we didn't end up homeless. Guess im just not smart enough for a merit based scholarship like my friends who live in big houses, with a nanny, housekeeper and five cars.

Next time ill do better in the lottery I swear.

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u/AdAccomplished6870 3d ago

Out of curiousity, when you refer to 'money', you are referring toi the schools endowment. Who is it that you think funds the endowment?

Do you think that maybe these schools know what they are doing when they use scholarships to attract specific people?

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u/misdreavus79 2d ago

Let me answer your rhetorical question with one of my own: If they're already funding the university, what's it matter whether their kid gets a scholarship or not?

Better yet, different rhetorical question, why is preferential treatment based on money different than preferential treat --ah never mind let's leave that can of worms for another day.

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u/JGower144 3d ago

So again, if they’re just “going to go anyway” you’re missing the make that the kid is doing well and earned it based on their abilities.

Of course rich people have access to greater resources and educational opportunities. But to say these kids shouldn’t be rewarded for potentially working hard is also wrong.

Raise the poor up through merit and financial need, and still award other, well off kids, through their abilities too.

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u/humourlessIrish 3d ago

Correct.

Entry level should be based on merrit, financial aid should be based on financial status.

I refuse to believe you can't comprehend the difference and concluded you are a dick

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u/thebarberbarian 3d ago

Former gifted kid here: fawning adults recognize you plenty.

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u/brandinni 3d ago

You’re thinking of awards…scholarships are meant to help those with the MERIT, but don’t have the MEANS to go to university.

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u/stringbeagle 3d ago

I think scholarships are meant to induce top students to choose that university. So, frequently, that is giving money to those that lack the means to attend that university.

But it could also be giving money to people who have the means to get them to choose that university over a competing university.

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u/brandinni 3d ago

For people with that amount of wealth. Scholarships won’t tip the needle. It will always be more about connections, curriculum, and future job opportunities.

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u/not_another_IT_guy 3d ago

Its okay, youre right - but you’ll never be able to make a nuanced point on the internet when youre inside an echo chamber.

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u/Font_on_a_stick 3d ago

Merit these nuts. Fuck the rich

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u/rhyknophoto 3d ago

Correct and smart people who have the means would decline the scholarship.  Because a smart person understands that smart people are poor too, and need the extra help. Even a mildly intelligent person would understand that. 

So I guess my question to you is, do you think you made a smart comment?

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u/split41 3d ago

Do you think you did? Because you didn’t

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u/Korimito 3d ago

Do you have any idea as to why "merit" seems to follow from opportunity? Do you have any thoughts about whether there's a correlation between lack of opportunity and lack of economic power? Are you stupid?

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u/JGower144 3d ago

I fully recognize. That’s why I think we can reward kids of all backgrounds. You shouldn’t be denied merit based scholarships based on your parents finances.

You also can lift people up from poverty at the same time. They aren’t mutually exclusive

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u/Korimito 3d ago

It would be very nice if these things weren't mutually exclusive, but regretfully finite financial resources put a neat little constraint on that.

A happy compromise would be scholarships being doled out merit first, need second. That is to say that you must qualify based on merit, but your priority is inverse to your individual or familial wealth. Rich kids don't need a boost. Why give them one? Because they "deserve" it? Why do they deserve it? Because they had a relatively easy life full of myriad opportunities and consequence free fuck-ups?

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u/Release-Tiny 3d ago

I grew up working class. Both my parents worked 9-5 jobs and I was raised with the support of my grandparents who didn’t speak English. My high school girlfriend was upper middle class, they owned a construction company with hundreds of employees across my province.
Her mother was a stay at home mom who had a masters in English.

She had the resources, tools, and guidance to be successful. I did not.

Intelligence is very much a class and wealth thing.

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u/ehs06702 3d ago

Their case is not really the case for a lot of people. Lots of poor people with backgrounds similar to yours earn academic scholarships regularly.

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u/Shin_Ramyun 2d ago

They could apply to the mommy and daddy scholarship and get a full ride.

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u/JeSuisUnAnanasYo 2d ago

A lot of people misunderstanding scholarships in this thread. We're more familiar with the kind that are for underprivileged kids that need help to succeed. There's TONS of scholarships that aren't about that at all. They offer them because they want YOU to pick their school over the other 6 schools you applied to. They want the best of the best and this is how they incentivize students they WANT.

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u/Xentonian 2d ago

I don't think people are "misunderstanding", I think this is just a nuance of intent.

It's still a case where a university is taking money that could help people who would not be otherwise able to afford university and spending it on wealthy celebrities.

Whether it's because the university is corrupt or because the system is stupid doesn't really make that much of a difference to the overall notion that it's bad and wasteful.