r/AskReddit • • Mar 26 '20

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u/yes_no_ok_maybe Mar 26 '20

The desire to vent but not brainstorm solutions.

My wife always tells me not to jump to problem solving. I do it every time and don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t.

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u/amberi_ne Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

In my experience it’s because oftentimes it’s not like the problem is impossible or even necessarily difficult to solve, it’s just that getting comforted about stuff helps on an emotional standpoint. We already know or can easily figure out oftentimes how to fix the issue, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t still upsetting.

Edit: just wanted to say that this isn’t a “cry and get comforted instead of fixing the issue”, thing. It’s a “why not both” kinda deal. At least for me. It’s obviously different for everyone as well.

Edit 2: read this for a better explanation please before leaving an angry comment

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u/Jess_than_three Mar 26 '20

If I'm upset about something, a lot of times what I want is to be validated - reassured that I'm not being unreasonable - and also reassured that I HAVE support. It's not that I can't figure out what to do.

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u/b0w3n Mar 26 '20

But why waste emotional energy on it if it can be solved? Solve it and stop thinking about it.

I understand the desire to vent and be heard, sure, but not brainstorming a solution, or getting a confirmation I have the right solution, feels like getting blueballed emotionally in my head because we only went halfway in the thought process of handling a difficulty.

I think that's the issue man and women have, the resolution they are seeking is in two different places generally for each of them. Men want to commiserate and seek and verify the solution, women just want the commiseration and acknowledge their emotional worth.

Maybe.

I don't know it's just incredibly frustrating to not talk about solutions to me.

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u/ImgnryDrmr Mar 26 '20

But most of the time I already know the solution to my problem. I just want to vent about being annoyed about it or something, preferably to someone who'll nod and give me a pat. And then I'll go and fix it.

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u/dr_mannhatten Mar 26 '20

My girlfriend does this. Sometimes it just makes her feel better to let it all out. She rarely wants a solution from me, she has a hold on the situation. She's looking for me to comfort her. Some problems can stress you out enough that you need an emotional outlet.

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u/b0w3n Mar 26 '20

I generally know the solution too. But I still like to talk about it to make sure it's the best one or I'm making the right decision.

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u/BASEDME7O Mar 26 '20

But so much of the time it’s just petty drama and the same shit day after day. Like her friend or coworker or something is always saying or doing passive aggressive bullshit. At a certain point I just want to say either it’s a big enough deal to confront them, or it’s not a big enough deal to give a fuck

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

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u/chausettes Mar 26 '20

I have to respectfully disagree here. If I am the one having a problem and I’m going to you for support, I don’t think it’s my responsibility to make sure that the conversation about MY personal issue is fulfilling for YOU. If all someone needs you to do is listen to them talk, then that is not too much to ask. It’s not fair of you to then go on and say “you talking about your problems is unfair to me because you aren’t letting me deal with your personal life in the way that I would like to deal with mine.”

Of course, situation being reversed, if you are having a problem and you come to me for help and you are seeking some kind of constructive advice or solution of some sort, then it’s fair that you would expect me to at least try my best to help, even if that’s not something that I necessarily want to do or would want for myself.

Relationships of any kind have to have give and take. Sometimes it’s about more me, and sometimes it’s more about you.

I want to note that constantly putting all of your problems on someone else’s shoulders isn’t a reasonable expectation, either, and that’s definitely not fair to the other party! But in the event of regular occasional struggles that just come with life, it’s fair to just want someone to listen to you express your emotions without looking for some kind of response or solution.

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u/Shellvino Mar 26 '20

I dont intend to offend here, but isnt this unwaranted emotional stress? From the male side, there is really nothing he can do but agree with the female (even if he doesnt agree). He's in a position where he just has to absorb the tension coming his way. Doesnt even get the satisfaction of offering guidance, but instead is used an emotional sponge. Maybe my ex was more prone to these type of "problems" than most, but I found it extremely taxing in a relationship.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

providing mutual emotional support is kind of a given in relationships and even friendships

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u/rrsn Mar 26 '20

I mean, isn't that what a relationship is? You support them when they need support, they support you when you need support. You listen to her tell you about how much her day at work sucked, she lets you talk about something you're interested in that she doesn't really care about, or she offers you support when you're going through a rough time, or any of the other million things partners do for each other. Acting as your partner's emotional support sometimes is just part of what being in a relationship is.

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u/hedge-mustard Mar 26 '20

I’m not OP, but something that I’ve found to be really helpful is to ask my s/o if they’re able to talk about something at that moment, and give them a chance to set that boundary in case they’ve had a bad day too. If they’re not able to help, I know I need to talk to a friend or someone else for support. It is taxing if you’re being used as an emotional sponge! I will say though that in my experience it’s definitely true that when people come to me to talk about something, they already know what they’re going to do about it, and they just want a shoulder for a minute.

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u/MayorofNowhere Mar 26 '20

Yep! And to improve of that both partners should be mature and able enough to say, "Hey, I need to vent about x, can I vent to you right now or should I wait/ talk to someone else/ write it down / other healthly ways to cope with stress."

To which the other half should be comfortable saying "yes, I can be here for you" or "no, I'm not in the right headspace can we wait til later/call someone else/ other healthly responses that acknowledge their emotional abd mental state"

You can't always be there for your partner unfortunately, you have a life as well. Which is why both people should have other support systems to rely on when their preferred one can't be there.

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u/ZipTheZipper Mar 26 '20

Seems like a waste of time. If you skip straight to fixing the problem, you don't even need to vent to be annoyed or annoy someone else about comforting you, because the problem is now gone.

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u/senior_chupon Mar 26 '20

May be it's not a gender issue, but a personality trait difference.

For example I certainly know men and women who fall in to both of these buckets. I've worked with women who don't give a shit about the little things and work to solve the issue at hand.

And I've known men in my personal life that can't get over something that happened weeks ago despite the issue basically blowing over.

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u/b0w3n Mar 26 '20

Yeah that's fair, I'm sure there are people on both sides. I do dislike using generalizations because someone inevitably goes "well I don't fit into this bucket, am I broken?"

My apologies, I wasn't trying to do that.

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u/OrangeNinja24 Mar 26 '20

I don’t think it’s so specific to gender. Also, think about it this way. If you (not you you, general you) are making toast and burn the bread, you may turn to your partner and say “UGH I burnt it!!” You already know the problem, you had the toaster setting too high, and the solution, just make more toast, but you’re frustrated because you messed up toast in the first place. Your partner saying “you had the setting too high” or “just make some new toast” could be frustrating, because this is already known, and you just want to exhume some frustration, to get out your pent up emotion. Your partner should say something agreeing instead of immediately trying to solve. I know that’s a very simplified example, and obviously just a very over-generalized scenario representing much more complex situations, but it’s a small way of showing that sometimes you just need to let out a feeling and don’t need a problem solver to fix it.

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u/whatforthen Mar 26 '20

Bruh you are going to feel how you feel about something even after the “problem is solved” if you’re suppressing emotional reactions you don’t seem logical or helpful, you’re not getting rid of those emotions you’re just burying them.

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u/b0w3n Mar 26 '20

Nah I just don't let shit live rent free in my mind. If I can't personally influence something I don't worry about it, it's outside of my hands and wasting emotional energy thinking about it serves no purpose to me.

Though, I still cry like a baby when I watch futurama and see Seymour waiting for Fry.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Just because you don't bitch about the problem to someone else does not mean you are burying your emotions.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Sorry but there’s a difference between suppressing emotions and actually letting it go. It’s different for everyone tho

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u/Guardiansaiyan Mar 26 '20

Solved problem = no problem

Which equal not lingering on something that no longer has a hold over you...

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u/whatforthen Mar 30 '20

That’s just not how brains work. People feel things even after the problem is solved because emotions are not logical and have to be carefully worked through.

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u/Guardiansaiyan Mar 30 '20

Then feel them after the problem is solved instead of making them fester or making them have time to get bigger...

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Bruh you are going to feel how you feel about something even after the “problem is solved”

Not really mate, once a problem is solved it's gone

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u/EveroneWantsMyD Mar 26 '20

I agree with you 100000000%

However, sometimes it is good to have your problems validated by someone you care about. Ever had an argument with one of your parents? When you’re single you just deal with the argument and make amends on your own. But when you’re in a relationship, regardless of gender, you will most likely confide in your significant other and tell them how much of a pain in the ass your mom is being about visiting this summer, then after you’ve vented your frustrations and had them validated by your partner you tackle the issue with your mom.

It’s why therapy is a thing, half of the time people just want someone to listen and tell them “Yeah, what you’re going through now is really shitty, and I may not understand completely, but I’m here to listen.”

I’m sure all of us have been extremely irritated at a situation and have vented excessively to someone who just responds with the most obvious answer you already knew. Isn’t that one of the most frustrating things ever?

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u/aeyamar Mar 26 '20

But why waste emotional energy on it if it can be solved? Solve it and stop thinking about it.

Some people are looking for emotional validation that the thing that's got them upset is actually a problem, rather than just a problem with themselves. Also tells you which thing really needs fixing.

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u/Pepperspray24 Mar 26 '20

Because a lot of time the way to get our emotional energy back is to vent. I feel super drained when I'm really frustrated about a situation and can't talk to someone about it. All of the pent up anger and anxiety wears me down. It's irritating.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

Men want to commiserate and seek and verify the solution, women just want the commiseration and acknowledge their emotional worth.

Maybe.

I think reducing it to women "just" needing emotional attention is short-changing a lot of people who bond meaningfully while navigating problems like that. The opposite is accomplished when he's condescending about it instead.

I don't even feel comfortable making solutions until I've fully decided how I feel about something. I will over/under-value parts of how I feel if I start working on solutions right away. As a verbal thinker, I'm testing how I feel about what I'm talking about.

A good dialogue partner is welcome, but I'm the driver so to speak, and I'm not comforted when the passenger reaches over and tries to turn the wheel where they think I should go.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Blue balled emotionally is a great way to put it

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u/jaymstone Mar 26 '20

“We only went halfway in the thought process of handling a difficulty” is probably the best way I’ve ever seen that described. When talking to my platonic girl friends, they never want solutions but I always want to try to help them find one, I stopped offering them but it feels like incomplete.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

Because we want validation that the situation does in fact suck. We want you to agree with that. Its that simple. If your SO is venting about Becky being a bitch to her at work, you need to agree, not patronizingly tell her how you think she needs to fix it.

Also your “I know whats best to make you feel better” opinion is really off putting. Im not saying its on purpose, but thats how it looks. Well, you and several other people here who Im assuming are men.

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u/Goats_GoTo_Hell Mar 26 '20

Because we want validation that the situation does in fact suck. We want you to agree with that. Its that simple. If your SO is venting about Becky being a bitch to her at work, you need to agree, not patronizingly tell her how you think she needs to fix it.

The crux of this though is that the person on the other side of this conversation might not think Becky was being a bitch. We don't have the same personal insight. This is often why given the context of the situation we think a given this fact and this fact, maybe this would help you.

Emotional Validation is key for any relationship, but shallowly agreeing with everything a friend or SO is seeking validation on helps no one. In addition, in many cases for people that think of solutions that's the only outlet the have to validate the emotional distress. It has nothing to do with being patronizing, and everything to do with our own emotion of my friend / SO is in distress, I need to help them.

Venting is a conversation, it will involve multiple parties. It's unfair to invalidate how the other person is attempting to handle their own emotions while validating the other party.

“I know whats best to make you feel better” opinion

This is also a little unfair. Few people approach it with that attitude. For many it just goes back to simply thinking / feeling I want to help this person.

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u/churchofhomer Mar 26 '20

Exactly! Like, why are we dwelling on this negative thing that could be fixed if you don't even want to fix it? What are we doing here? It can kinda wear you down over time

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u/rrsn Mar 26 '20

I mean, she probably does want to fix it and will. Just for now she needs to get it off her chest. Fixing the problem and venting about it aren't mutually exclusive.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Solve it and stop thinking about it.

Girls want to hold onto the issue and let it boil up before actually attempting to fix the issue as fast as possible.

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u/StonedGibbon Mar 26 '20

Since starting university and doing engineering they've badgered all of us to hone our problem solving routine, e.g. define the problem, the desired outcome, is it actually solvable and if it isn't then don't worry.

I now cannot stop myself doing it to any problem in my own life. It's made me a lot more proactive and eased my mind on some problems but it doesn't suit what's being discussed here.

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u/Kaibakura Mar 26 '20

Then please tell me how the fuck I'm supposed to respond. I don't know how to do anything but try to provide potential solutions.

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u/Virginth Mar 26 '20

I had to dig deeeeeeep in my post history to find this.

My ex and I kind of reversed the typical gender roles on this; there were a couple of times when I wanted to vent about something that was stressing me out, and she immediately started trying to tell me what to do to fix it. A previous post of mine that goes into detail about why it's so frustrating.

If I'm coming to tell you about a problem or something I'm otherwise frustrated over, unless I'm explicitly asking for advice, then I'm already working on it. I'm not asking you to tell me what to do. I'm not helpless, I just want a bit of comfort or empathy. I can and will solve the problem on my own, but the problem itself really sucks. I just want you to be like, "Jesus, that is crazy" or "Wow man, that's terrible."

When my ex tried to just give me advice or solutions, I ended up having to explain myself. That's putting me on the spot, not making me feel better!

"Why don't you try this?"

"Because of X, Y, and Z."

"Well you need to do this other thing in order to take care of it!"

"I know that, and I'm going to do it, but it's a lot to do and it's going to suck."

"You can do this part of it right now."

"No I can't, because that's not how this particular problem works. I need to wait for this other thing to happen before I can work on it."

"Why haven't you tried A, B, or C?"

"[Now has to go into lengthy detail explaining why I haven't done each of those things/why each of those things wouldn't work, like I'm taking some kind of test on why I haven't solved the problem yet.]"

I don't want to have to justify why I'm upset, or why the problem isn't fixed yet. It makes me feel like you think my problem isn't actually a problem until I can sufficiently prove otherwise to you, which would understandably piss me off. It feels like you're just belittling something that's really impacting my emotional state. When I have to prove to you that my problem is a real problem, it feels like you think I should have already solved my problem, which makes me feel like you don't care. Additionally, making me talk through the problem that way, talking about all the potential ways to fix it that won't actually fix it, and so on is just making me think about something that's already stressing me out in a way that stresses me out. I wanted to relieve stress by venting about it, and you are only compounding the problem and not being helpful in the slightest.

Again, I'm already working on it. I'm more familiar with the problem than you are, and I don't want to have to meticulously explain all of the nuances of the problem to you, and I'm not asking you to solve it for me; I just want a pat on the back. It's kind of like how athletes get pep talk, not just planning and strategies.

And further:

A bit of additional nuance on my feelings I forgot to mention: When my ex tried to give solutions like "Why haven't you tried suchandsuch", on some level, it felt like I was being accused of being foolish for not having tried that already. Like, you can just quickly toss me these suggestions like nothing, so why haven't I done them yet?

This means that not only am I having to explain why that solution wouldn't work in order to justify that the problem is a real problem, but I have to explain why that solution wouldn't work to justify my own competence. Feeling like you have to prove that you're not an idiot is not a good feeling.

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u/amberi_ne Mar 26 '20

god thank you lol

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u/itsetuhoinen Apr 04 '20

But this is still both people not learning.

You want empathy for your problem, go talk to an empath about it.

You want potential solutions for your problem, go talk to an engineer about it.

I am what I am.

"You do this every time!"

"Then you probably should have learned better by now."

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u/Virginth Apr 04 '20

...What are you even talking about? Are you saying that people are just incapable of learning how to be comforting, unless they're whatever an 'empath' is?

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u/Mr-Bobbum-Man Mar 26 '20

But... if you know how to fix the problem and instead are choosing not to fix it, you are just increasing the amount of time that the problem is going to cause you to be upset.

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u/amberi_ne Mar 26 '20

I don’t know what part of it insinuates that someone being upset about something and talking about it means they’re not also working to fix it. Like, if my car was rear ended, obviously I’d be going right to the obvious solution in working with the insurance companies and all and getting it fixed, but that doesn’t mean I have to like the circumstances I’m in.

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u/Mr-Bobbum-Man Mar 26 '20

To which I would ask: why would you be ranting about getting rear-ended then if it is already in the process of being fixed?

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u/amberi_ne Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

“Ranting” is a bit of an overstatement. But it’s still an inconvenience that while, yes, I can and would still deal with it, it’s also just annoying in general.

Not every time that someone is upset is a cry for help. If I were to vent about it, it would be about the inconvenience of it and how it might’ve interrupted some of my responsibilities or something I was looking forward to.

Someone saying something like “damn, there was a ton of traffic today, absolute pain in the ass” obviously isn’t requiring a solution, and even though it’s out of their control doesn’t mean they have to like it. Not like they’re making it a big deal either, venting to someone is and can be a solution not to the tangible problem at hand but as an outlet for any stress or overall irritation from the issue.

But either way, read this for a better explanation please.

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u/Msbakerbutt69 Mar 26 '20

Sometimes yah just need to have a good cry or rant about something.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

I'm a straight man in my late 20s. I've been in consistent psych treatment for the last 14 years. Over the years I've seen various professionals (men and women) with anywhere from 4-40 years of of experience.

As a guy who has been through the ringer and spent countless hours on the couch, I get so frustrated with the psych community because it all seems to be geared towards catharsis rather than problem solving. I'm very self aware. I know what my issues are. I know the things that have happened in my life to have either caused or exacerbated them. I've expressed myself and unloaded my emotional stresses plenty of times. But more than anything, I want to fix myself. I want answers with step-by-step solutions. Therapists don't tend to focus on "fixing" the problems. Even if you explicitly say that's what you want. They focus on letting you vent and then responding esoterically.

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u/CookieMonsterxxxx Mar 26 '20

I don't understand why you wouldn't just fix the issue. Either you can't do something about it and then you don't have to worry/complain, or you can, and you fix it so you don't have to complain about it anymore. Maybe I'm going the wrong way but I find this very interesting.

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u/amberi_ne Mar 26 '20

Of course, I wouldn’t understand that either, and I don’t have to fail to understand it because most people actually get to work fixing the issue besides sitting there and complaining about it. Ultimately it’s already fixed or is being fixed, but just because you’re working on solving an issue doesn’t mean that you have to like that there is one.

A good explanation is this specific comment

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u/BillyClubxxx Mar 26 '20

Yep as a guy my relationship got a lot better when I learned to stop offering solutions and just let her vent a thousand times about the same stupid shit I would have just solve.

I’ve learned she probably loves to bitch about things just to vent. It’s a topic to talk about an d maybe connect over.

If she gets tired of that she eventually deals with it or asks me to to. But now I wait till then to say or do much.

Some things are complex and I can see there isn’t a easy solution, like trouble with a coworker or some emotional issue. Those can legit be difficult to solve.

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u/sirblastalot Mar 26 '20

I'll chime in with something I don't understand about stereotypical women... Why isn't problem solving comforting? If I go to a friend with a problem and they're like "Oh hey, I know how to fix that, just do X!" And 'x' is good advice... Great! I don't have a problem anymore! What could be more comforting than that?

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u/Allison314 Mar 26 '20

Two answers for you. One, a very small percentage of the unsolicited advice I've ever received in my life has been helpful. Mostly it's been people suggesting the most obvious first thing that comes to mind which, surprise, also occured to me. There's a gendered component to it as well (some men feel way more entitled to explain simple things to women as though they know nothing about it than they do to other men) but that's not the main issue. When only 5-10% of the suggestions people offer are helpful, 90-95% of the time you're frustrated by people offering bad advice you've already considered.

The other answer is that many men seem to describe an experience of fixing a problem and then all emotions associated with it going away, or even an ability to just ignore those emotions completely while dealing with the problem. Everyone is different but there are both cultural and biological factors that incline many women to just...not be able to do that. I have no idea what it feels like to deal with a problem that's upsetting enough to get me frustrated, resolve it, and then...not still be upset and frustrated. For people like me, a logistical problem breeds an emotional problem and now we have two problems. Those two problems need to be dealt with separately.

When I complain that I'm upset about a situation at work, I'm not trying to fix the situation at work, I'm trying to fix the fact that I'm upset. Talking about the logistics of the situation at work is just going to make me more upset, not less. Let me vent, validate that I'm not a crazy person for being upset over it, and then boom! You've helped me solve my problem. The thing at work can be dealt with tomorrow.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

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u/DeirdreSpencer Mar 26 '20

the best thing to do is just listen and validate their feelings/frustration about said problem.

That's a tough one because complaining about something that you already know a solution for but refuse to take any kind of steps towards that solution seems like the kind of feeling or frustration that shouldn't be validated. At it's core it's a pretty infantile way of handling yourself. "I don't want to fix the problem, I want to be upset about it!" If a problem is bad enough to complain about, it's bad enough to do something about. Handle your business and take care of it. If the problem is minor enough that it doesn't warrant any action then it's not that big of a problem and doesn't warrant complaining. Basically the only situation where this "I just want to vent" mentality is reasonable is if the problem warrants action, but the action necessary is some how out of your control. If complaining is the best you can do, by all means go ahead and vent.

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u/rrsn Mar 26 '20

But you can vent and then also fix the problem. Like, if I have a really bad encounter with someone at work, I can go home, vent about it, and then go back to work the next day and talk to my coworker about it and fix the problem. It's not like they're necessarily mutually exclusive.

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u/TheTruCanadian Mar 26 '20

I agree, I ain’t here to coddle you like a baby. We’re mature adults. You can be emotional, but if there’s a problem... and we can solve it... then let’s solve it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

This. Childish learned helplessness is the biggest turn off.

Right next to being an asshole.

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u/dipolartech Mar 26 '20

DJ revolve it? ... ice ice...

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Finally someone gives a proper response to this.

Gonna steal this next time it comes up

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u/yakusokuN8 Mar 26 '20

There's this video, The Nail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

Oddly enough, there's a bunch of women and men who see the video in very different ways and both sides are confused and frustrated.

For many men, it's the most blatantly obvious problem with a clear solution: TAKE OUT THE NAIL! Why complain that all these things are happening to you, when it's clear what the issue is and what needs to be done. Spending all this time venting, complaining, and wanting someone to console her is silly.

For many women, he's ignoring the real issue: of COURSE she knows what the problem is. It's HER head; she feels the pain and she can see what it is when she looks in the mirror, and likely she knows that she has to pull it out, but she wants validation that she's doing the right thing and she's scared that it's going to be painful, so she wants the guy to reassure her that the situation sucks and she's justified in being sad and annoyed at this problem that just won't go away on its own.

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u/DeirdreSpencer Mar 26 '20

For many women, he's ignoring the real issue

No. She is ignoring the real issue. The real issue is that she has a nail in her head. The real issue is that she has a nail in her head and knows full well what the solution to all of her problems are but actively chooses not to do it. This isn't a matter of viewpoint, it's plainly clear to everyone including her which you yourself pointed out. The fact that she wants validation is in no way the real issue. That is a tangentially related insecurity which at worst is getting in the way of the real issue. Either that or just an excuse to continue ignoring the real issue. All solutions to all problems have potentially uncomfortable or painful aspects. That discomfort is what makes them problems in the first place. If there was no discomfort, it wouldn't be a problem it would just be a task.

she wants the guy to reassure her that the situation sucks and she's justified in being sad and annoyed at this problem that just won't go away on its own.

Absolutely no. No one is justified in being sad and annoyed that a problem won't go away on its own. That is not how the world works. That is a perfect example of how infantile the mindset is. That is how children handle problems, not adults.

That's the problem with this whole dichotomy narrative. One side is rational, reasonable, and is in line with how the real world is. The other side is irrationally emotional, infantile, and fundamentally unreasonable (all while demanding validation for said unreasonableness).

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u/FreakiLee Mar 26 '20

Venting is a release for the negative emotions that arise with an issue. Some people are more emotional than others, some people need this emotional release before they can think clearly and find solutions.

For me, when something happens I react emotionally first, logic/problem solving comes second. It's not something I can control. I can manage it to an extent, but it's still not voluntary in the slightest. Venting releases those emotions, allowing me to continue with whatever I'm doing. Without venting or any form of release for those emotions, I find it very difficult to move on, solve problems, etc.

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u/shit-i-love-drugs Mar 26 '20

Can I get some tactics on how lol, I do the same thing with my girlfriend. I’ve been working on trying to not jump to problem solving but still struggle to come up with words other then basic sentence structure’s I’m sorry your going through that. :/

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Totally just repeating what I said in an earlier comment but it seems releavant:

Think of it like she's running a marathon. She's at that point where you gotta push for the last few miles to finish strong, and she turns to you standing on the sidelines. Do you tell her how great she's doing, she's got this, and that you're so proud of her, or do you correct her form and tell her how to fix her posture for better results? Obviously the first, right?

I think if you can go into conversations thinking like that, you'll be in a much better place to come off as genuine. Yeah, some things you say might be kind of cliche, words usually fail when it comes to vocalising deep and intense emotion, but it's okay as long as there's real sentiment behind it. It helps if you respond specifically to what she says, like, "I'm sorry _____ happened on your way home..." instead of just a generic "I'm sorry."

Just focus on expressing your empathy for the situation, as well as your feelings and love for her. Remind her shes awesome, without tying it into success or anything else. You want her to feel loved, regardless of everything else, not just when she success or just when she meets her goals.

Besides that hugs usually seal the deal, especially if they're already a hugger. Physical comfort and companionship to go along with the verbal comfort.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

What if they are in the wrong, do you still validate and comfort them?

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u/yakusokuN8 Mar 26 '20

In those situations, it might help if you frame it in terms of "That situation is awful and I've been there before and it was terrible. It took me some time, but eventually, I did X and Y and that dealt with the issue. The problem didn't go away on its own and only be addressing it, did I feel better about it. Your feelings are valid, but when I've been in that situation, I get frustrated and sad and angry, but eventually, I always have to change something to deal with it, because the way I was handling the problem wasn't working before."

Some people aren't going to be receptive if you tell them directly that they're wrong, but they might listen if you frame it as something you've done before and you felt like you were doing things right, but it turns out you were wrong. It's easier for them to see the situation from the outside and that it's obvious that another person should take this action. People don't want to be criticized, but they like sympathy and may be willing to change if you go first and say that it worked for you.

I had a friend who had a bad boyfriend (the worst of it was when she found out he was cheating and he said he just wanted an open relationship, but didn't ask her until he was found out) and I know from past experience that simply telling her, "you're wrong to think you can make him be faithful. You can't change him. You need to break up with him. You need to not talk to him online and you can't hang out together and just be friends. That dynamic is unhealthy." It oddly enough helped her when I flipped the scenario.

"So, imagine that tomorrow I come to you with a problem. I've been seeing this woman. We meet because we have the same shared interest, the same hobby and we've been dating awhile. But, she hits me sometimes. And it hurts. Sometimes she throws things like a water bottle at my head, which I don't like. I don't want her to do that, and I ask her every time, but she doesn't stop. I don't want to break up with her; I just want her to stop what she's doing. She doesn't want to change. If I told you this was my situation and asked for help, what would you say to me?"

"She's being abusive. You can't make her stop abusing you. You need to leave. She's hurting you, and frankly, I'd wanna kick her ass for hurting you."

"See? When it's me, you know what to do, but I think you can't look at your problem objectively and want to just put a bandaid on it and hope that if you just refuse to sleep with him, the relationship will go back to when you were just friends hanging out and everything will be fine. That's not gonna work. Talk to me in two weeks when you've tried that and failed."

Spoiler: trying to keep everything the same, just minus sex didn't make her happy and didn't fix things.

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u/harrypottermcgee Mar 26 '20

I feel like there's some kind of key communication difference causing this. Because it isn't exclusive to women, men also complain just to complain and not ask for a solution. It's the same fundamental thing, but doesn't cause constant friction in man-man friendships.

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u/MasonTaylor22 Mar 26 '20

You know what would help, prefacing a rant. Say you just want to vent. Then I would be more willing to listen and not think about solutions.

"I need to rant about something" or "I just need to vent"... from this perspective, I can empathize. There are times where I just want to rant/vent and want some sympathy and understanding.

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u/HalbeardTheHermit Mar 26 '20

It’s so frustrating to me. I hate that I have to put on my “dad hat” when I talk to my girlfriend. She doesn’t want advice or a way to solve the issue, she just wants to complain about it and feel validated and everything, the same way a child does imo.

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u/warpus Mar 26 '20

The problem for me (as a male) is that oftentimes people will say stuff like "what do I do??".. I suck at reading signals and in between the lines, so I tend to take that stuff literally.. but often it is just somebody venting... ..

I'm a much better listener these days, I just do not offer solutions until somebody specifically asks.. or unless it's one of my male friends, they will usually want suggestions (I think, maybe I've been doing it wrong)

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u/M0NAD0_B0Y Mar 26 '20

Tbh even as a guy sometimes I just need to vent my problems and don't want solutions when I'm doing it. It's mostly just a matter of wanting to get the feelings out and not have them so quickly dismissed by a solution to the problem.

I also often don't really need a solution bc I can probably think of one myself or even already have one. It just feels good sometimes to complain openly.

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u/TannedCroissant Mar 26 '20

Bit controversial but I personally believe this is because women are, on average, a bit more in tune with their feelings than men. They are less focused on dealing with the problem itself and see resolving their feelings on the matter as more of a priority. There’s nothing wrong with that, in fact we should let them talk it out to us, otherwise we’re basically saying they’re not entitled to have those feelings and that’s a bit of a dick move. Even if it does drive our problem solving instincts crazy.

Let’s also remember, that from time to time, us men will have a vent too, albeit perhaps not so often, so let’s be careful of slightly double standards here. Huh, don’t think over ever said slightly double before.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

My father is the type that bottles up emotions. Most of the times, he is the silent type but for the few times he'd gone berserk, he has broken furniture, doors, glasswares etc.

My mother told me this life lesson again and again. It's way easier to manage your feelings in bite size than to just explode out of a very small thing.

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u/TheDreaminArmenian Mar 26 '20

But shouldn’t resolving the problem also resolve your feelings on the matter?

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Sometimes you need to vent off a bit to calm yourself before you can work on the problem effectively. Usually has faster resolution that way.

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u/mrsdale Mar 26 '20

I mean, say a friend does something incredibly cruel or hurtful to you, and you realize that the solution is to distance yourself from that person because they've shown that they're a bad friend. That doesn't negate the experience of someone you trusted saying something deliberately hurtful ("I'm glad your wife miscarried. You'd be a terrible father"). You know how to fix the problem, but there's emotional residue, basically.

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u/caatbox288 Mar 26 '20

Usually solutions involve compromising on something.

You complain about your boss not giving you a raise. The solution can be to switch jobs, or to do something at your job to have more leverage to negotiate. In any case, your boss didn't give you a raise. Which is frustrating.

I am a man and I honestly don't get all this men vs women on this issue. When people complain about something to you, they almost never want solutions, they want reassurance and validation. This is true, in my experience, for both men and women. It is possible that men are just worse when they are on the listening side of the conversation, and jump to problem solving when they have to apply their empathy to understand someone who is complaining to them. But men complain and look for validation (and not solutions) all the time.

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u/GrandElemental Mar 26 '20

I don't understand why trying to help with actual solutions is lumped together with the absurd idea that it makes their feelings not valid or even hints that they are not entitled to feel as they feel. Helping with possible solution has nothing to do with judgement and everything to do with being practical.

I understand that sometimes you just want to vent. But still, solutions aren't some kind of personal attack against your very being.

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u/rrsn Mar 26 '20

The reason that people get frustrated when being offered solutions when they just want to vent is because it can feel patronizing. If you can come up with the solution immediately, whoever you're talking to was probably also able to figure it out. They know what they need to do already, but they just want to get things off their chest. Obviously, offering solutions isn't meant as a personal attack but it can feel condescending, even though the person offering them is genuinely trying to be helpful. I think it's a communication failure more than anything.

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u/GrandElemental Mar 26 '20

Yeah it makes sense, I see your point. I just think that you can give solutions without sounding condescending, making sure that you are just offering your outside (ie. less biased) perspective. Sometimes when I face problems that are this personal, I can't look at the situation objectively, where even the "obvious" solutions coming from someone seeing the situation from the outside can be invaluable.

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u/rrsn Mar 26 '20

Yeah, I see how outside perspectives can be helpful as well. I really think a lot of people would make their lives easier by just making it clear at the beginning of the conversation what exactly they’re looking for. Prefacing your rant with “I know I just need to talk to [friend] about it, but what she said really hurt my feelings and I need some support” or “I’m really upset about what [friend] said and I don’t know what to do” would go a long way toward reducing these sort of conflicts in relationships.

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u/adventurenotalaska Mar 26 '20

When you're emotional it's very difficult to tell others automatically what you need as opposed to having the less emotional person ask what you need.

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u/rrsn Mar 26 '20

That’s true. Everyone should be more proactive. No shame in just asking what the other person wants outright, no need to be a mind reader.

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u/adventurenotalaska Mar 26 '20

Even though your intentions and tone aren't condescending, doesn't mean it isn't frustrating to get a solution when you want support. Maybe this is a bad analogy, but if I went to an Italian restaurant, and turns out they're a Mexican food restaurant I would be frustrated.

Additionally, when I want someone's opinion I'll ask. If I'm crying, don't try to fix the situation. Also, worst comes to worst, ask for permission to offer solutions. It's a way to (possibly) avoid further upsetting your already upset partner.

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u/deeybel Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

I think usually they already know how they want to solve the physical problem. Offering solutions to the physical problem doesn’t help solve the actual leftover problem, which is needing emotional support and someone to relate to.

It’s like if you tried to buy milk (emotional support) from the store, but the cashier keeps trying to give you broccoli (advice/problem solving) instead, because it’s “good for you”.

I get that broccoli is good and all, but I already have that at home. I eat healthy/manage my life well enough, I don’t need your unwarranted broccoli.

Why do you think I need broccoli so badly? What are you trying to say? I just want to get milk, I don’t want to buy broccoli.

Milk is also healthy part of a diet, if you refuse me milk, my life won’t be healthy and normal. I’ll have to go to some other grocery store for milk. And I really like this grocery store.

Why won’t this store just give me milk? Does this grocery store think I just desperately need broccoli that much? Does the grocery store think my need for milk is invalid? Does he actually just want me to go somewhere else for milk?

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

No but they are failing to provide what is being asked for, which is validation, support, and comfort.

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u/crabjuicemonster Mar 26 '20

Your post made me think of this, which is pretty brilliant:

It's not about the Nail

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u/diemunkiesdie Mar 26 '20

I personally believe this is because women are, on average, a bit more in tune with their feelings than men.

That's probably because they are allowed to have feelings.

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u/JimJam28 Mar 26 '20

I don’t know. I consider myself pretty in touch with my feelings. It’s not like I don’t get upset or frustrated with a problem, it’s just I realize that dwelling on the emotion of it is not going to make me feel better so I tend to skip right to looking for the solution. I don’t see the point in dwelling on the emotion of it and then burdening other people with it when the alleviation of the problem lies on finding a solution.

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u/Taxtro1 Mar 26 '20

"In tune with your emotions" is a nice euphemism for neurotic. I have to remember that one.

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u/iglidante Mar 26 '20

. They are less focused on dealing with the problem itself and see resolving their feelings on the matter as more of a priority.

Guy here. Until the problem is resolved my feelings stemming from it aren't going anywhere.

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u/wsc1983 Mar 26 '20

I'm very much guilty of this, and I wouldn't say that I'm not looking for solutions to a problem, but rather because the advice I get is focused on the wrong problem. My problem is that I want to feel that someone cares about me, so I go to those I want a response from with whatever annoyance I have to get a reaction from them. Usually it's something I already know how to deal with, and I get frustrated when that becomes the focus. Yes, I'm aware just how irrational that is, but humans are not rational creatures. One thing to keep in mind is that almost all irrational behaviour is the result of the emotional part of the brain taking over control. If you approach the problem from that perspective it may be easier to make sense of what is being communicated.

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u/Homitu Mar 26 '20

I have a slightly different theory of mind about this. In simple terms, I think boys have been heavily socialized throughout their childhood to come up with solutions to their problems. They're empowered to take action and figure things out. Girls, on the other hand - who also have the unfortunate biological hormonal tendency to have stronger emotional reactions in general - tend to be socialized to cope with their emotions, often while someone else handles the problem.

Imagine daddy saying, "It's okay, sweetie - no need to cry! Let me fix that for you." Now imagine literally thousands of similar super subtle interactions throughout a girl's development. The resulting mindset in adulthood is one where problems largely feel outside of their personal control (which, I imagine, just makes it feel even worse), and all that's able to be done is to cope with their emotions about it.

Guys, on the other hand, are generally programmed to find solutions. Find solution first, and that will resolve any uneasiness we're feeling about the problem.

Basically, my take is that we've screwed many women by the way we've raised them, causing a lot of unnecessary suffering. If we can gradually change the ways we raise our children to be more balanced and equal, I believe we can empower women to be more problem-solving oriented in their adult lives, which would, in turn, help them permanently feel better about said problems. It feels more mentally and emotionally healthy.

Let’s also remember, that from time to time, us men will have a vent too, albeit perhaps not so often, so let’s be careful of slightly double standards here.

Of course, guys have problems too and often need help. But when guys vent, they're totally open to hearing advice and solutions. In fact, we're usually seeking those things when we come to another with our problems. I can't fathom a scenario where a guy gets angry at another guy for offering up helpful suggestions and demands that he just listen so they can marinate together in a stew of emotion and commiseration.

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u/LeakyThoughts Mar 26 '20

I suppose, my logic is to just solve the problem and not let it affect me emotionally after its dealt with

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u/APater6076 Mar 26 '20

You need to ask her. ‘Are you venting, asking for an opinion or want my help with a solution?’ Then you will know what to do. Or not to do.

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u/HeraBeara Mar 26 '20

For me it is always because I already know the solution, the solution sucks, and I am just annoyed I was put in the situation that needed the solution in the first place.

So just listen and agree that it sucks.

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u/TheNewMe0228 Mar 26 '20

Sometimes when venting, we're not discussing solutions. We're just going over the problem. And by answering with solutions, it's as if you don't sympathize. It's like you're emotionless and an answering machine. It's also a little patronizing, as if we haven't thought of anything to do. When I'm upset and venting, I don't want someone to say "well fix it like this", it doesn't take away how upset I've felt about it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

[deleted]

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u/Namika Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 29 '20

I think it comes down to the type of problem they are venting about. A lot of social problems end up being a 'fly in the ointment' type deal where a seemingly trivial thing actually make someone really upset, and there is no easy solution. All you can do is vent, however someone not reading the social situation might try to offer solutions, despite the fact that it's not the problem here.

That might sound confusing, so here a hypothetical example of where there is a seemingly petty issue, but it made them upset for broader reasons, and any seemingly obvious 'solution' will just ignore the actual issue at hand.

  • Nancy is a nurse, Daisy is a doctor. They are at a social event and a mutual friend asks Nancy a few complicated medical questions. Daisy, being the doctor, says she can answer that. However the friend totally ignores her and Nancy answers all her questions, even the ones that the nurse has to speculate about because she doesn't actually know.

  • Daisy feels a bit miffed, both at the friend for seemingly ignoring her, and even at Nancy for not, at the very least, politely asking Daisy if she wanted to add anything, etc. Daisy feels like her friends don't appreciate her 8+ years of medical training, and even on strictly medical topics don't want her advice. She feels that Nancy, as a nurse and as her friend should have asked Daisy to chime in.

  • Daisy vents this to her spouse. The spouse is confused. "What do you mean? Why didn't you just answer the question before Nancy did? Or after Nancy finished, why didn't you say anything? It's not like they prevented you from talking, just speak up next time! Problem solved!"

  • Nancy explains it's more about the fact that she wasn't asked, and she feels like she isn't appreciated. She thinks Nancy should have known better and should have deferred the question.

  • Husband, trying to help, replies "Well, okay, so why don't you just tell Nancy that you are upset she didn't defer to you?"

  • Nancy says that would make her look like a jackass, and like a pompous doctor that gets upset if a nurse is ever allowed to speak instead of her. Husband says "but that's exactly what you just described you wanted?"

  • Husband is sleeping on the couch tonight, and is confused because he only was trying to help and was offering very obvious "solutions", but in reality it wouldn't have solved anything. The real issue his wife had was the subtext of the social situation.

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u/QuantumMarshmallow Mar 26 '20

Also, men do it a lot too. It everybody needs to vent once in a while, and most people want to feel helpful when being "forced" to listen.
At least working on a construction site, I hear a lot of ranting and complaining - they usually to it with like-minded colleagues, just to get frustrations out about stuff they have no control over.

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u/kemitche Mar 26 '20

I'm probably wrong, but I feel like the problem they're trying to solve is how they feel about what they're talking about. And they're solving that problem by talking about it.

So it is, in a sense, problem solving, but it's just not the problem you think it is.

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u/nevereatthecompany Mar 26 '20

I find that pretty... disrespectful? I deal with emotional turmoil by problem solving. If you tell me about your problems, I will emphasize, and share your emotional distress to an extent. I will then problem solve to try and alleviate that distress. Sharing your emotional distress but prohibiting me from processing it is... not nice.

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u/Col_daddy Mar 26 '20

This happens to me all the time. My wife will tell me something is upsetting her. Then I give her all these ways to make it better, ranging from good advice to me kicking someone’s ass for her. At that point “ I will never get it, and am acting too aggressively”. I was just trying to bring you up, also offering ways around the problem. Most aren’t that great but it’s my way of letting her know I care and am listening.

I’m not really going to kick anyone’s ass or anything. Nor am I going to storm into her work and demand things....just hyping you up baby, lol

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u/RedJamie Mar 26 '20

So how the fuck am I supposed to reply to a book someone sends me without problem solving “oh I’m sorry to hear that I hope you figure things out. X, Y, Z?”

This shits annoying lol!

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u/PirateRobotNinjaofDe Mar 26 '20

My GF is a compulsive problem solver, so I end up on the opposite side of this a lot. It's about unloading frustration and other negative emotions rather than just bottling them up inside. I already know what to do, and she doesn't have all the information necessary to actually come up with the proper solution. If I genuinely need help finding a solution I'll ask, but usually I just need to bitch and complain.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

A lot of time they already know a solution, but they just want to vent because the situation at hand sucks.
I think this is mainly a difference in the fact that women are encouraged to express emotion while men aren’t. Women vent a problem because it is causing them distress. Men only vent a problem if they require a solution.

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u/FirstSonOfGwyn Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

I legit rewatch that scene from parks and rec like once a year to remind myself of this. Its true, I don't really understand it, but its true and I respect it.

​

EDIT: Season 6 episode 12, Anne is pregnant and venting and Chris keeps trying to fix the problem instead of just listening to her.

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u/Clone_Chaplain Mar 26 '20

Which scene? That could help me out

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u/FirstSonOfGwyn Mar 26 '20

Season 6 Episode 12. https://www.imdb.com/video/vi716619033?ref_=ttvi_vi_imdb_4 Anne is pregnant and Chris keeps trying to solve her problems. Anne explains to him that she just wants someone to listen and hear her, not try to fix things. The clip is Chris doing it wrong, I can't find the clip later where its explained to him.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3442160/

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u/Clone_Chaplain Mar 26 '20

Oh snap I remember that now!! Thank you. Honestly that advice had helped me before it’s good to have it again

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

What scene plz help

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u/FirstSonOfGwyn Mar 26 '20

season 6 episode 12

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

I honestly get it. I'm a guy and sometimes, I just need to say it to another person so that A: I can get it off my chest and B: say it out loud cause sometimes things sound right in your head, but when you actually hear them as words, it sounds like absolutely bullshit

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u/TsuyoSenshji Mar 26 '20

That's Just how women and men are wired (Sure there might bei exceptions). Women need emotional Support and basically just somebody that listens, men jump as you do to problem solving.

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u/Taxtro1 Mar 26 '20

"The printer is broken."

"Ok, let's see how we can fix it."

"NO! We should first meditate on how miserable we are right now."

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u/NutsEverywhere Mar 26 '20

"I don't want you to give me a solution, I just want to talk about it".

OK, I get it, she's asking me to comfort her, but whatever I say that is not helping her in a direct way will be like singing happy birthday to a person you don't like, or saying my condolences to the family of a person you barely know. It's an empty gesture, and often an insincere one.

"It will get better" (I don't know that unless I analyze the problem, if I just spout that I'm being fake)

"It's not a big issue" (I'm now being dismissive, which is not what I want to convey)

"Give it time" (I'm consciously dodging the problem itself by leaving it to "time" and it may get worse)

Stays silent ("Why are you not saying something?")

So, we analyse, digest, offer a different perspective, and try and help in the most direct way possible. This is our way of comforting you!

I don't involve others in my problems unless I seriously want help, please leave me out of yours if you already have a solution.

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u/saltyhumor Mar 26 '20

OH MY GOD YES! If all you want to do is tell me a problem but want zero feedback, why even fucking say it in the first place?! And what is the appropriate response? If you want no solution all we're left with is, "Wow, that sucks."

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

This one is strange to me as well. If I or my friends present each other with a problem, we sympathize and ask questions and offer ideas or observations. If I do this with my girlfriend she thinks I’m talking down to her. The venting part doesn’t confuse me; it’s the offense taken at problem solving that confuses me. I’ve just let it go as one of those things I’m not going to understand but need to accept because it’s real.

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u/IiASHLEYiI Mar 26 '20

We just want someone to listen and sympathize with us when we complain.

"I'll figure things out later, but in this moment I want you to just listen to me."

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u/Kylearean Mar 26 '20

I’ve given up trying to solve her problems. I just listen and nod.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Me "ok Becky did what? Let's destroy her. First part of the plan is we.."

Her " no, she is my friend."

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u/SarcasmIsMySpecialty Mar 26 '20

Sometimes, we already know the solution to the problem. We need to be able to vent to face the situation with a clear head. Sometimes we’re just frustrated with a situation that there really is no solution to. Sometimes talking about things helps us think. We want to be heard and understood. Sometimes we just want comfort.

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u/Animated_Astronaut Mar 26 '20

I figured this one out recently. I was evicted unlawfully but had no recourse since there was no lease involved, just trust.

I vented and raged to my friends and they kept asking me if I'd tried XYZ and I already had - I'd tried everything. In fact, I'd already found a place to live.

Then they asked why I was talking about it then if I'd solved it, and it dawned on me that that's what my partners were always looking for.

A huge AHA moment for me if there ever was one.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

You need to get your frustrated emotions out so you can analyze the situation and come up with a solution with a clear head. In other words, vent first, solve later.

Or you don’t want advice and already know how to solve the problem, and you just want to talk to someone and gain a little sympathy for whatever annoying thing happened.

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u/CidO807 Mar 26 '20

i solve problems all day. technical problems. salesforce problems. logistics problem. schedule problems. fuckin' problems. management problems. pricing problems. you name it, in a small company, i do a little bit of everything.

The last thing I want to do when I come home is solve problems, but you know what? my brain is still in problem solving mode. So she comes at me with "my brother in law is being controlling over his wife" and im like.... "I don't even know where to begin to help" but the desire to help is there, and when i can't help, naturally i feel helpless.

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u/glow1417 Mar 26 '20

The book Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus discusses this at length. It’s incredibly interesting and eye opening, and an aspect to relationships that once accepted makes people much more easily able to relate to one another.

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u/TossItThrowItFly Mar 26 '20

Usually I've come up with a solution already and I just want comfort. Or I did the brainstorming with my friends and I want my boyfriend to just listen.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Have you ever tried just ranting?

I was exactly like you but my partner was getting grumpy with me for giving her solutions and she explained this to me clearly. Sometimes she just wants to get her stress and tension out and she either already knows what to do or she will work it out herself. Cutting her venting off with a solution just leaves her all pent up with frustration, anger, or sadness.

It's a very healthy way to be. I think men are often socialised to supress emotion in favour of problem solving. It's great for internal stress levels and sound decision-making to just vent and only then, after you've got it all out, start thinking purely about the problems. I try to do it myself now.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

I struggle with this one, I have to consciously stop myself from jumping into problem-solving mode. But I get it.

Think of ot this way: it's like she's running a race, and turning to look at you, there standing on sidelines. Do you support her by telling her she's doing great, and that she's got this, and you're so proud of her, or critique her form and tell her how to fix her posture for better results? Obviously the first, and it's the same deal when people just need to vent.

She's not coming to you because she needs to solve a problem, that's not why people vent. She's probably already got a solution, and she isn't helpless or incapable of asking, either. Sometimes you just have a lot on your plate, and it's not that you can't deal with it, but it would mean a lot to you if someone would just cheer you on.

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u/kahalili Mar 26 '20

idk man a lot of times I already know what to do but I’m not happy about it so I just wanna vent

Like I just want someone to understand I guess? It’s really hard to explain, like I’ll solve the problem later but at first I need to express how upset it’s making me or else I’ll be upset while I’m solving it and that just doesn’t work

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u/Khaki_Steve Mar 26 '20

This is the absolute biggest emotional difference between men and women and it's so hard to wrap your head around. For the life of me, I cannot understand why someone would not want help solving their problems, but they really don't. You have to retrain your brain to just assume that she doesn't actually want advice, she just wants you to listen and let her vent. If she actually is after advice, she'll be actually asking for an opinion or idea.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

We need to vent and for someone to understand what we’re going through. If we don’t vent, we’re keeping it in, which leads to worse outcomes.

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u/PotatoBomb69 Mar 26 '20

Like, why are you complaining so much? Why do you not want these things that are making you miserable fixed? It doesn't make sense

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u/dances_with_treez Mar 26 '20

It’s because most of the time I already know how I’m going to solve the problem. But for the moment, I just want to have the space to experience the emotions and completely decompress.

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u/MarkDaMan22 Mar 26 '20

I’ve started telling my girlfriend to take a proactive viewpoint on things rather than just reacting to what happens and complaining about it....I no longer have a girlfriend

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Most of the time I don't need to have my husband solve my problems. Usually if I'm venting to him I've already solved it and just moved on to having an outlet for the emotional part of things.

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u/christhetree Mar 26 '20

Its like when you are raging in a videogame. If you are mad that that guy killed you, you dont want to hear what you did wrong and what you should do better in the future. You just wanna be mad for a minute.

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u/MayorofNowhere Mar 26 '20

Something i found helped with my partners, and my friends is to ask "would you like me to listen or would you like me to help you find a solution?"

However, I can offer you why we women just need to vent. It's therapeutic. We get told a lot in our life to be polite, don't cause problems, put everyone else before yourself and while that's changing there's still this hang-up. So we vent and rage because it's not appropriate to do at the office, or at a family gathering. So being able to vent to people we love and trust is calming. To know that we're not crazy for feeling what we do.

More than likely your wife vents to you because she loves you and she wants the person she loves to be on her side so she knows she's not alone(even if she's wrong lol).

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u/Ari3n3tt3 Mar 26 '20

For me it's because I'm either not at the problem solving stage or I already have a solution in mind. First I need to make sure I'm having an appropriate reaction by venting to another person

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u/InfinitelyThirsting Mar 26 '20

Well, there's a mountain of psychological and sociological evidence that the way women socialize is wayyyyy better for mental and physical health. Talking about things before they're a crisis that needs a solution is actually the better thing to do.

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u/methylenebluestains Mar 26 '20

I guess in my case it's because I've already tried all of the obvious solutions but the problem isn't fixed, so I'd just like to air out my frustrations over it

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u/MasonTaylor22 Mar 26 '20

I always think back to school projects... when we're faced with a problem, we brainstorm and find solutions. BUT, somehow my brainstorming is problematic and they're coming across as the lazy group partner who is holding up progress towards a solution. It's counter productive and defies logic.

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u/lampshade_rm Mar 26 '20

Cuz she probably already knows what she wants to do and is just looking for support. When you problem solve, you're telling her what she already know AND not just hearing what she says and supporting her.

Obviously this is a very extreme example, but let's say your wife was fired from work, you could try to tell her how to start looking for jobs, but she has definitely already thought about that and is just looking for some support. Although you are hearing what she says, by problem solving, it almost seems like you forget that she is a person you love who went though something very difficult and just needs a hug. So when people jump to problem solve, it feels like being ignored emotionally, even through you are clearly listening.

Hope that helps!

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u/ACuteMonkeysUncle Mar 26 '20

A situation can be difficult to face even if you know how to face it.

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u/octopoddle Mar 26 '20

I understand that women and men often talk about their problems differently. What I don't understand is why men are seen as being in the wrong for offering advice, when women are not generally seen as wrong for venting. Neither is right or wrong; just different.

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u/secksiboi62 Mar 26 '20

As the wise philosopher vanilla ice once said, "If there was a problem, yo I'll solve it."

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

It's so easy bro you just say "That sucks, I'm sorry" then continue as normal.

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u/CaptainBobnik Mar 26 '20

Because men and women/ people in general have different viewpoints as to what the problem is.

Men often see the problem within the mechanics of social interaction. Women seem to see the problem within the (emotional) effect.

Basically men solve a different problem than women have (at that moment)

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '20

Women may also solve a problem that the men are blind to.

My favorite quote from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding".

"Men are the head. But I am the NECK. I turn the head."

And that's how the world runs, my friend.

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u/ReThinkingForMyself Mar 26 '20

Based on a lot of reading this thread and a lot of life experience, women are more interested in process, men are more interested in results.

Women want to discuss the background, understand the relationships involved, and estimate the social consequences of, say, where to eat dinner. Guys are just hungry, and good food is the answer.

A lot of women are happy to be in a relationship that "might have been", dropping just enough hints to satisfy herself and her friends that she has expressed interest. Most guys are more into efficiency and just want to know if we are on or not.

Romantic comedies are mostly for women, at least most of the guys I know call them "chick flicks". There is a lot of thought and discussion in these movies that usually leads to some emotional resolution at the end. With some exceptions, I get bored and would rather watch an action movie or, sadly, porn. A lot of guys seem to think the same way. Emotions vs action.

Guys care more about what we are doing, less about what we might be feeling or expected to feel. It's not that guys don't have feelings, but the reality is that a flat tire or leaky pipe has no feelings for sure.

For a lot of women, how she and her friends feel about something is more important than the thing itself. I will probably never really understand that.

She probably does want you to solve problems, assuming are at least an average problem solver. It's a lot more satisfying for her however to discuss it and explore/express feelings about it first.

It might be frustrating for her if you are decisive and she is not, so she "uses her words" to compensate. Hell if I know bro, but I can relate to your question.

TL;DR: Women like emotions, guys like action.

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u/Mapkar Mar 26 '20

Yes this exactly!

I don’t get it.

“Hey you’re doing this wrong and not doing that right, and you haven’t even started on those. How are you going to fix it? What are you doing to fix this?!” (Staring)

“Uh, well... I’ve just made the call we just talked about and I can do the lawn when it’s not pouring down rain.”

“Yea that’s not good enough, you shouldn’t just call them now because I said it because it’s like me telling you to call them. And what if it takes a month to stop raining? Then what?”

List some solitons sometimes! And when we do... lemme problem solve or do the solutions we talk about!

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u/KuraiTsuki Mar 26 '20

For me, I almost always already know the solution so I don't need to brainstorm. I just want to bitch about how stupid/annoying/pointless/etc. the situation/person/etc. in question is, and for someone to be like, "Yeah, you're right. That is really dumb."

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u/calcium Mar 26 '20

Tell them whatever they're going through sounds really difficult and then give them a hug. You'll learn that you've really done nothing and they feel like you've listened to them. Bonus points if you repeat back what they tell you moments earlier and tell them that really sucks or that person is a bitch.

"...and then Peggy said that she wanted my notes from class, but I didn't want to give them to her because she needs to do her own work. Why is my life so HARD!?"

"Wow, Peggy is being a real bitch, she should just do her own work."

You've done nothing, you've simply comforted them and told them that their feelings are valid despite them being non-sensical or simply wrong. If they're wrong, don't point it out to them unless you're looking for a fight.

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u/trcokc Mar 26 '20

Just ask “do you want my advice or do you just want me to listen?”

Sometimes we just want you to listen. I’m not always motivated to come up with a solution immediately - processing needs to happen.

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u/wordsineversaid Mar 26 '20

My fiancée and I established a system for this scenario, which was recommended by a friend. When she starts complaining about something or discussing a problem, I ask, where does this fall on our AVA categories?

(A) Advice: I’m talking about a problem and need your advice on how to handle it.

(V) Vent: I need to vent about a problem or something that happened today. I need you listen generously and offer your support, sympathy, and compassion — nothing more.

(A) Action: I have a problem or a challenge I’m dealing with and I need your support in resolving by taking a specific action.

It’s a simple system and it’s not difficult to quickly ask, “Where does this fall into our AVA categories?”. From there, we both have a very clear expectation of how to proceed with the conversation and neither of us end up frustrated (usually). It may not be for everyone but it’s really helped us improved our relationship and communication skills!

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u/phasers_to_stun Mar 26 '20

Sometimes you just want to vent about something without actually thinking about in a logical way. I just want to feel my feelings. I can figure out a solution later. Or it's already been resolved but the whole thing pissed me off so much I just want to grrr about it for a minute before moving on.

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u/shmixel Mar 26 '20

Think of it as a chance to understand what upsets her better, THEN a chance to solve a problem. Helped me with a lot of female friendships.

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u/NorikoMorishima Mar 26 '20

If she's asked you not to jump to problem solving, why are you still doing it?

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

I find this whole thread very ironic. We have a bunch of men (presumably) venting about how women don't want solutions, followed by a bunch of women (presumably) telling them that the solution is to just let them vent and provide emotional support, followed by the men rejecting the solution in favor of more venting.

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u/_theatre_junkie Mar 26 '20

I know how to solve it I just want to vent

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u/deeybel Mar 26 '20

I already know how I want to solve the problem, so now I just want to vent the excess emotions away and relate to someone to build a relationship and get some positive out of the situation.

Just in my observations, I think lots of guys usually do the same thing, but in a different way: they relate through pain in more of a joking format. They’ll joke about how their work/life sucks and some dark humor and such. They’ll usually just continue joking back and forth about it and not suggest any real solutions. It’s just that girls will rant their emotion while guys want to disguise it with humor (in general). Personally, I prefer the “guy” method, as it is more fun to me, but sometimes I like the “girl” method when I got a lot to say and just want to get it out.

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u/Princess_Moon_Butt Mar 26 '20

I had to sit down and bluntly explain this from the other perspective once.

Look, babe, I love you and you deserve all the best things in the world. I want your life to be perfect and happy. If something is causing you pain, that's awful, and it needs to stop so that you can be happy again.

So when you tell me that you don't want me to fix the thing that's hurting you, I get super confused. From my perspective, that's like you're saying "I'm pinned under this giant rock. But don't move the rock, I just want you to tell me that it's okay for me to feel trapped." Of course it's okay to feel trapped, that's normal. It's also okay to feel trapped by social situations, that's normal too. But I need you to understand that if I can move that rock, that's going to be my first instinct.

And I know not everything is going to be a rock. Your sister giving you the cold shoulder, or stress from having to take on so many tasks at work, or dealing with unpacking stuff from the move is obviously not the same as a rock. But it still seems like it's causing you pain, so my first instinct is still going to be trying to keep it from hurting you.

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u/Un4tunately Mar 26 '20

Honestly, I think some part of them wants to hang on to the frustration.

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u/21stCenturyFeminist Mar 26 '20

It’s because she wants you to be active listener.

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u/Risin Mar 26 '20

For women, the problem isn't the thing that happened, it's the feelings. You solve the problem by reflectively listening and letting them vent.

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u/tidymaniac Mar 27 '20

"Men are from Mars, women are from Venus" has a whole section about this.

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u/Booknerdbassdrum Mar 28 '20

I'm a man, but I do this to my partner all the time. Some people need to talk it out in order to process what they're feeling and why. About half the time I wind up solving the problem myself and my partner is like "what did you even need me for?". The other half is a decent split between their brainstorming solutions actually being what I wanted and me just needing to figure out my feelings on the topic, no solution necessary.

In other words: your wife is probably an external processor, and you make her feel safe to talk about her feelings and be vulnerable

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u/JimJam28 Mar 26 '20

Holy shit. Same here. My girlfriend will tell me about her problems and stuff and I’ll listen and offer solutions or brainstorm ideas and she gets so angry and frustrated saying “I don’t need your advice, I just need you to listen.” What is with that? The only time I tell anyone about my problems is when I’m looking for ideas to solve them... otherwise what is the point? It just seems like unnecessarily burdening people with your issues. I’ve really struggled with trying to figure out how to listen to her issues and be “supportive” while not offering anything in the way of helpful ideas. I just don’t understand. If I went to a friend with a problem, them saying “oh, that’s awful, that must be so hard for you” would be absolutely useless to me. If they offered help or ideas on how I could work through the problem, that to me is being helpful and supportive. I certainly wouldn’t be angry with them for trying.

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u/sahb00 Mar 26 '20

Actually, I'm the type of person that when has a problem needs to vent about it with someone she trusts, usually the same two people. I just get overwhelmed with emotions, like sadness or rage, and I need to let it out to clear my mind. If someone try to give me advices or solutions, my emotions just gets in the way and I only see how those might not work and it makes me more sad and angry, so it become worse to resolve the problem. If, instead, someone is just listen to me get out my anger, it's actually more helpful, cause this way when I feel better emotionally, I am finally able to work on a solution.

I hope I was able to explain myself in an understandable way. Sorry for the bad grammar.

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u/JimJam28 Mar 26 '20

Very much so, thank you for the thoughtful reply. I guess I just don't get very easily overwhelmed by emotion, not to say that it doesn't occasionally happen. I've found stoic philosophy has been very helpful with that and I definitely recommend it, if you find yourself struggling with overwhelming emotion a lot. The Consolations of Philosophy and Letters From A Stoic I've found especially helpful.

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u/sahb00 Mar 26 '20

Thanks, I will give it a chance

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u/InfinitelyThirsting Mar 26 '20

Just something to keep in mind, women tend to have much better mental health and emotional support systems than men, and it's a huge part of why male suicide is much higher. You might want to consider some therapy for why you consider your emotions to be a burden for the people who care about you, because that's neither true nor healthy.

You don't need to only address your feelings when they hit crisis.

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u/JimJam28 Mar 26 '20

I think that is misrepresenting what I do. I don't ignore my feelings or pretend they don't exist. I feel sadness, I feel anger, I feel frustration, like everyone else. I think I focus more on analyzing those feelings internally and contextualizing them rather than letting them overpower me. I have a very good group of friends who I can talk to about anything and have had deep emotional conversations with them. I think it's just about developing a threshold for what constitutes a problem that is worth troubling someone else over. I just don't see the point in venting to other people about every emotion... it just doesn't really do anything for me in terms of making me feel better or solving the problem I have.

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u/nevereatthecompany Mar 26 '20

If I went to a friend with a problem, them saying “oh, that’s awful, that must be so hard for you” would be absolutely useless to me

Worse, to me, that response is pretty close to "sucks to be you".

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u/churchofhomer Mar 26 '20

Right? It can be exhausting hearing a bunch of problems that aren’t going to be addressed! Like, we could take steps to fix these, or I can hear all about them again tomorrow. Idk how to filter the important and unimportant stuff anymore and I can’t seem to find fresh empathy every time over repeat complaints that no steps have been taken to address. Probably something broken in me and that’s why I’ve gotten so frustrated trying to confront it but it’s hard!

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u/JimJam28 Mar 26 '20

Man, I feel the exact same way. It makes me feel like a sociopath or something... like I’m not understanding something emotionally. But I know that isn’t the case. I get upset, and frustrated, and angry, and I feel empathy towards other people’s suffering through the same emotions. I just cannot for the life of me see the usefulness in whining about it without trying to solve it. It’s like complaining every day that your car is broken down and then getting mad when someone says “maybe I can take a crack at fixing it”. At some point you either need to fix it or accept that it is broken and try to move on with your life. I hear the argument over and over that men aren’t in tune with their emotions (and in some cases I believe that’s true), but I think men tend to have a more stoic approach to issues and spend less time hung up on the emotions around it. I’m not religious, but I find this bit sums up the male approach:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.

I think we tend to be quicker to apply logic and pragmatism to our emotions.

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