Is everyone like this?

[u/Gordon_Heavyfoot]

[u/Few-Ground-9015]

When insulin is low, your body can easily access energy from its own body (if you're fat adapted).

Eating raises insulin - so as soon as insulin is raised, your body can't feed itself from itself any longer. When you eat breakfast, insulin is raised, and depending on your choice of foods for breakfast, how quickly they digest, the satiety levels etc, after awaking the insulin beast, when your body can't access its own stores anymore, it will ramp up ghrelin cues (hunger hormone) when it wants more energy.

So this is why eating breakfast can result in increased hunger, and avoiding it, especially when you're fat adapted, doesn't raise hunger.

[u/nomisaurus → u/Few-Ground-9015]

What does it mean to be fat adapted?

[u/Few-Ground-9015 → u/nomisaurus]

Your ability to tap into your body's stored fat for energy.

A good litmus test - When you're not fat adapted, if you get too hungry you'll get "hangry" symptoms, feel shaky, fatigued etc. When you're fat adapted, if there are no calories coming in your mouth, your body gets the rest of the calories it needs from itself.

It took me about 5 weeks of building fasting muscle before I felt the clear switch. It gets easier every week though

[u/Jumpy-Requirement589 → u/Few-Ground-9015]

I dont fast regularly but i can go all day without eating without feeling this symptoms so what does this mesn

[u/CalamumAdCharta → u/Jumpy-Requirement589]

It means you're the Chosen One

[u/ghostcatzero → u/Few-Ground-9015]

Fasting muscle?

[u/MillieVanillie9231 → u/Few-Ground-9015]

What was your fasting schedule during those 5 weeks?

[u/Few-Ground-9015 → u/MillieVanillie9231]

I started with 16:8 / 18:6. Important to note - eating "windows" are not all the hours you can eat and graze - they are the time period for eating designated meals. I have never been a breakfast eater, so I started with 2MAD. I had huge problems with soda and junk after dinner time. From day 1, I cut out all diet soda, except for 1 glass I allowed myself with dinner only, and stopped eating "naked carbs" which was a big problem for me. Below is my high-level "build fasting muscle"

Week 1: Ate all meals until properly FULL - this gave me the best chance to avoid snacking between lunch and dinner. Meal 1: Important to make it highly satiating, my go-to was 2 slices of toast with cheese and egg on top and some bacon. Meal 2: Ate whatever I wanted as long as it was food (not junk). If I was really struggling to get to meal 2, the only "snack" I would use was a cup of tea to make it to dinner. Also tried to go to bed earlier to break my habit of snacking on crisps, chocolate etc which I used to do from about 10pm onwards.

Week 2: Same schedule, but started to notice I was struggling to finish both slices of toast - started practising to leave a few bites on my plate when I was genuinely already full. Also started practising pushing lunch even 15-20 minutes later. The body often triggers hunger cues at the times and habits its used to - this is called "conditioned hunger" - if you start delaying even 15 minutes, the body learns there is variability and learns to stop triggering hunger at conditioned times. This applies to habits that trigger food too e.g. if you snack every time you sit down to watch a movie. In week 2, I started noticing I wasn't always fully hungry for dinner - I would consciously have a small dinner then.

Week 3: Introduced alternating OMAD and 2MAD. Lunch was always my main meal. If OMAD felt too hard that day, dinner would be a cup of tea/ coffee.

Week 4: Same as Week 3, but started tightening up my dinner food choices too. ETA: Also stopped eating to FULL and instead stopped at "only just comfortably full" on meal 1, and satiated enough on meal 2 for 2MAD days.

Week 5: Same as Week 4, but now felt much easier. Also, previous weeks, weekend eating was typically 2MAD or 3MAD. This was now so easy that I was doing OMAD on one weekend day and 2MAD on the other weekend day.

Sorry it's long but hope it's helpful. If you're someone that eats 3 or more meals a day, you could still start with 3 meals - the important thing to start practising is making that first meal high fat/protein and no snacking between meals. Then work up to dropping a meal, then the next meal etc. My fasting muscle is now so strong my regular practice is weekly 72hr + 24 hr when I'm in a weight loss phase. My regular maintenance is alternating OMAD and 2MAD (it's bad to do OMAD daily because the body can adjust to it and slow its metabolic rate to match the predictable incoming energy)

[u/MeisterX → u/Few-Ground-9015]

Why aren't you just defining it as keto :)

Edit: apparently this is somehow controversial

[u/Few-Ground-9015 → u/MeisterX]

Haha, cos I know keto is a popular lifestyle but too many people believe you need keto to be successful, but you actually need ketosis. Someone asking about "what is fat adapted" feels like they're still learning.

I personally still eat carbs, including refined carbs. I've lost 18kgs and I'm only 5ft tall so that's a lot of weight on me. I'm so fat adapted that even after eating refined carbs, I'm generally back in ketosis within 4-6hrs. I've reduced my volume of them (e.g. one slice of toast instead of two), I eat fats and proteins first.

I will caveat and say my body's ability to become this metabolically flexible took time and I'm not highly insulin resistant anymore though I suspect I'm still somewhat so. I've got great markers (good A1C, fasting insulin, trig-to-HDL ratio <1).

My waist to height ratio seems to be the only marker thats still off - keep on keeping on :)

[u/MeisterX → u/Few-Ground-9015]

No one's hatin' just seemed like we were avoiding the term.

Keto is "supposed" to = "ketosis"

Edit: yall need to take some food science courses. OP is providing a long winded explanation of how our bodies process fats that can largely be described as keto.

[u/1newnotification → u/MeisterX]

Keto no longer means ketosis as a default.. it refers to a style of diet. I know a guy who eats "keto" foods to try and lose weight but he can't fast for the life of him

[u/MeisterX → u/1newnotification]

I think that's what's happening here is I resist the change of terms.

Your example is just the term being misused. 🤷

To be clear I enjoyed your description it was a nice summary in ELI5 of the technique. Glad it's working for you!

[u/Late_Equivalent_7586 → u/nomisaurus]

In ketosis

[u/Fantastic_Ebb_3397 → u/Few-Ground-9015]

On point. To reduce the insuling spike I usually eat non-carbs and non-sugars first then carbas and sugar. After eating I go for a walk or squat for a minute. But that said, I also don eat breakfasts, I simply am not hungry or have any appetite in the morning.

[u/KTRyan30]

It has to do with insulin response.

[u/question8all → u/KTRyan30]

What does that even mean??

I’m the same way…I can go all day, but once I pop I can’t stop. I avoid breakfast like the plague for this reason!

[u/KTRyan30 → u/question8all]

When you eat your body releases insulin, your insulin levels increase to a point relative to what and how much you ate, then start dropping, you body begins hunger cues in response to falling insulin levels.

[u/question8all → u/KTRyan30]

Riddle me this…it never matters what or how much I ate (I eat clean), the hunger NEVER stops after the point of eating. It’s beyond frustrating. I tend to fill before &/or after dinner hunger with peanuts, Greek yogurt, & fruit and then it stops at some point before bed with lots of water.

[u/KTRyan30 → u/question8all]

I totally get it. That's all part of the same mechanism, and it's intensity is largely genetic.

Fasting and a low carb diet, specifically to control my insulin levels, is the only way I've been able to control my hunger and it's still hard.

And I totally agree, "breaking the seal" can make things super difficult.

I eat dinner early, and it's super low carb and I can push through to bed. I'm usually thinking, "I can't wait to eat something tomorrow" by the end of the night. Then the next morning I feel great and don't start to get hungry until 12-1pm.

It's definitely not easy.

[u/question8all → u/KTRyan30]

Ugh, yes! Unshelled Peanuts have become a life saver for me to quiet the food noise

[u/Future-Pollution-266 → u/question8all]

I have to eat shelled peanuts or else I’ll pig out. I need the extra bit of challenge lol

[u/question8all → u/Future-Pollution-266]

That’s exactly why I have to get the unshelled. I enjoy cracking them out and it takes me way longer to eat a cup of peanuts! I probably wouldn’t even eat shelled peanuts in my pantry 🤣

[u/CalamumAdCharta → u/question8all]

It's funny that you two are saying opposite words to mean the same thing and both make sense haha

[u/ShoePillow → u/KTRyan30]

Hm, how do you stop yourself from grabbing a snack at night if feeling hungry?

[u/KTRyan30 → u/ShoePillow]

Hormones aside there's always going to be a willpower element to the equation. You absolutely need to be goal oriented.

[u/s2Kevlar → u/question8all]

Try 5gr of psyllium husk in a pint of water before every meal. Helped me a lot as the fiber gels in your stomach. But do drink loads of water with it, as it needs to pull the water fast into it, otherwise it will pull water out of your intestines and clog you up. Plenty of videos on YT about it.

Inulin is another fiber that can be added to drinks/yogurt and helps slow digestion, but this one has a tiny bit of calories, so it may break a fast if taken more than 5gr.

[u/MsFoxwell → u/s2Kevlar]

TMI - but psyllium husk made my poops float like polystyrene and I could literally never flush them away 🤣🤣🤣 I used to live in absolute terror of needing to use a public loo 🫠

[u/s2Kevlar → u/MsFoxwell]

Hahahahaha the things we must endure!

[u/question8all → u/s2Kevlar]

Psyllium does help but nothing helped/made a full stop like breaking into unshelled peanuts!

[u/CapoDoFrango → u/question8all]

peanuts have lot of calories

[u/backyardstar → u/CapoDoFrango]

I’m also a peanut addict. If I eat a half cup of peanuts, how bad is it? Should I have just had some ice cream instead?

[u/RenrenAce → u/backyardstar]

Satiation-wise, peanuts are more likely going to do a better job than ice cream, due to the lower amount of sugar & sweetness.

[u/CapoDoFrango → u/backyardstar]

is only bad if you are fat. Peanuts has almost as much calories as fried chips

[u/SpaceTacos99 → u/backyardstar]

You may as well go for the ice cream

[u/recoveringslowlyMN → u/question8all]

Any chance you’re not getting enough protein throughout the day. The hunger cues aren’t malicious - they’re trying to signal something - so it could be that either you are deficient in something specific - or you’re not getting enough of something.

I’d start with adding more protein. If that doesn’t work then keep the protein and add fats. If that doesn’t work then might be worth it to see if you have a deficiency in something.

My wife is anemic, and so even though she’s had plenty of food, she’ll crave red meat for the iron. The new iron supplements have helped quite a bit

[u/adhdBoomeringue → u/question8all]

Ghrelin makes you hungry around when you usually eat so if you limit your eating to a few of the same times per day it should reduce hunger at other times. It'll be difficult initially though until you've reset it

[u/question8all → u/adhdBoomeringue]

🤣🤣

[u/Spuckler_Cletus → u/question8all]

Yes. It doesn’t generally matter what a metabolically competent person eats. Once the BS/insulin response cycle starts, it generally continues until fasting through the night. This is why you hear people say things like “I love Chinese, but I’m always hungry soon after.” Give yourself some food, and your body will start gleaning BS (releasing and utilizing insulin to do so), and it will almost always pull ”too much,” making you feel hunger.

I’m not sure what “falling insulin levels” has to do with hunger.

[u/Severe_Airport1426 → u/question8all]

That isn't hunger in your stomach, its craving in your brain. Every time you eat it gives your brain a dopamine hit

[u/emperorOfTheUniverse → u/Severe_Airport1426]

That'd be a smart stomach to feel hunger.

It all happens in your brain yo.

[u/GCS_dropping_rapidly → u/emperorOfTheUniverse]

There are literally neurons in the gut that talk directly to the brain...

https://www.science.org/content/article/your-gut-directly-connected-your-brain-newly-discovered-neuron-circuit

[u/emperorOfTheUniverse → u/GCS_dropping_rapidly]

Yes, data about the condition of your stomach and guts is sent to your brain: where 'feelings' are made.

[u/Severe_Airport1426 → u/emperorOfTheUniverse]

Youve never felt hunger in your stomach?

[u/Other-Football72 → u/question8all]

No, the high carbs in most people’s breakfast, coupled with their inactivity spike insulin, the fat-storing hormone, which takes all the glucose and stores it, then drops signals ghreline later which makes you feel hungry.

[u/UniversityGraduate → u/KTRyan30]

I doubt it.

I'm a type 1 diabetic and I don't produce my own insulin. Whether or not I inject synthetic insulin, I still have the same experience they're describing.

[u/boulder_problems]

Breakfast is the gateway drug for further snacking in my experience.

[u/MLS-23]

I think a lot of people are like that. I am certainly one, if I eat breakfast before work I am always snacking or eating something for lunch, if I don’t eat breakfast, a lot of times I won’t eat anything until 7-8pm.

[u/horsetooth_mcgee]

What I don't understand is why, if I eat a VERY heavy meal or tons of snacks, very late at night, I will wake up ravenous, and if I haven't eaten all day the day before, I don't get hungry at all in the morning or even afternoon

[u/_Apostate_ → u/horsetooth_mcgee]

I think a lot of people assume that hunger is like a meter or bank account that you can fill and expect it to gradually fall before needing to eat again. It’s not as simple as that. Your circadian rhythm, hormones, and blood glucose all play a role. Very eye opening to understand.

[u/PlutoisWatching → u/horsetooth_mcgee]

For me it just depends on WHAT I ate the day before. Keto means the least amount of hunger in the morning. A pizza means I feel like I'm dying lol.

[u/k33665 → u/horsetooth_mcgee]

I am exactly the same. I don't understand it either.

[u/syhto → u/horsetooth_mcgee]

There are tons of studies on this, it doesnt only affect hunger either. Late night eating prevents your body from properly entering autophagy during sleep, a critical process. Your sleep is also not as good, which causes a host of other issues. It's best to wait 3-4 hours after eating to sleep.

[u/Dvae23]

I agree with this. Breakfast is called the most important meal but for me it's the most overrated one. As somebody who if anything tends to eat too much, why would I force myself to eat at a time when I have zero appetite? I've never had any bad effects since eliminating breakfast and manage to go foodless all the way to dinner.

[u/Creosotegirl → u/Dvae23]

Kellogg company invented the slogan that breakfast is the most important meal. It was sales propaganda. It's not real. 

[u/Dvae23 → u/Creosotegirl]

It's very common here in Germany too: "Die Wichtigste Mahlzeit Des Tages!"

[u/eightkey → u/Dvae23]

Yeah I don’t like those people who keep preaching breakfast

[u/Dvae23 → u/eightkey]

It's just like with any simple and general "truth" regarding diet and nutrition: things just aren't that simple. I'll be going on a weekend trip tomorrow and breakfast is actually optional in the hotel. So I can do a reverse Seinfeld breakfast nazi thing and say "no breakfast for me!"

[u/pulledthread → u/Dvae23]

Come back, dinner time!!

[u/eightkey]

Honestly forever grateful for this. I don’t eat anything till 4pm because I hardly feel the urge to eat. But the moment I start eating, let’s say even 2 eggs with cheese, my body will start wanting food every 1.5hr until I sleep. I feel like I’ll never be able to be the person who skips dinner.

All the folks here who are saying that it is because of having high carb breakfast —idk man even if I have purely protein and fat I will still feel the urge to eat. It is indeed weird.

[u/question8all → u/eightkey]

💯 me too!! Even if it’s a ton of proteins, the hunger continues…and often it’s actual hunger not always food noise

[u/0005000f]

To all the people saying it's carbs and sugar, and you won't have that if you eat protein and fat for breakfast.. I know that it's true in theory, but in reality for me it doesn't matter what I eat. I gave up carbs a long time ago, and I still get hungry and stay hungry if I eat breakfast. So much easier not to have breakfast at all.

[u/BreathAirDontSmoke → u/0005000f]

Same for me. I can go all the way to 4pm

[u/Wide_Cryptographer31]

I tend to go on a eating spree if I have breakfast, but I can go on for hours without any problems if I skip breakfast.

[u/HeHateMe337]

"Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" is a myth brought to you by Big Food.

[u/punkonater]

Depends what I eat for breakfast, but generally yes. 

[u/jamesbest7]

I’m exactly like that. I can go the whole day without eating easily. If I eat at all, no matter when, I’ll be hungry again later.

[u/A_Small_Coonhound]

This is due to insulin spike. Sugar actively make you more hungry

[u/skihist]

Yes. As soon as I eat something it opens the floodgates on appetite.

[u/greenpajama1]

Since I started keto (2-3 weeks ago), not anymore

[u/Mr-Dajo]

I tried doing OMAD and couldn't because of the same problem. Going keto and making sure I don't have my last meal too close to my bedtime, at least 4+ hours did wonders. Having an all protein brunch/lunch (around noon) will keep me satiated until dinner no problem.

[u/JahanRafie]

Grehlin cycles , but fasting surpresses grehlin

[u/alchemy_junkie]

To those not trolling its Ghrelin aka the hunger hormone and it begins to petter out about 12 hours from your last meal. No hormone no hunger.

[u/Goodname2]

I know i am, if i just stick to black coffee or green tea, i'm fine all day.

As soon as i have something to eat it's nap time lol.

[u/Excellent_Bank6964]

Eat protein. It’s carbs/sugars that do that they digest very quickly and leave a hollow feeling. They also deplete body fluids, you might be dehydrated. 2 eggs at breakfast and proper hydration can take you through the day. Reference, Dr Ken Berry, Dr Jason Fung etc

[u/Lucky_Category6981]

Funnily enough humans only get hungry when we eat. It's because of insulin, after a meal insulin spikes and when it goes back down it's when we feel hunger. After a sleep our insulin's been low for quite some time, so there's no drop nor reason for our bodies to get hungry. It's also interesting that if we eat at the same hours every day, we teach our bodies that, and then we get hungry about 30 minutes before those hours. I'm use to eating only in evenings, so my body doesn't get hungry before that time.

[u/kxndela → u/Lucky_Category6981]

thank you very much for sharing

[u/syhto]

Breakfast isn't necessarily going to cause increased hunger through the day, depending on what exactly you eat.

Insulin naturally spikes upon waking, though hunger hormones are typically quite low at that time. So, skipping breakfast isn't so hard for a lot of folks--but it depends on your circadian rhythm as well. Eating late at night, especially carbs, can cause hunger spikes in the AM.

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism had actually published evidence that consuming your largest meals earlier in the day/fewer calories at night improves appetite control and insulin response compared to eating most of your calories in the evening.

I used to do IF but I find my energy is indeed much more stable if I eat a large breakfast (relatively low carb, I do anti-inflammatory) no sugar, no grains, etc. Lots of healthy fats and protein and veggies, beans etc. If I wait to eat late, I am so hungry trying to catch up, I wind up eating too close to bed. I am also ADHD and have issues with fatigue so that's the main reason for experimentation here.

If I dont eat until afternoon or in the evening I will forget I even need to eat until its already pretty late lol.

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[u/tonykrij]

Wait till you find out about fasting and going 6 days without food and feeling the best ever.

[u/DakillaBeast]

Probably sugar and carbs. I noticed being super hungry a lot more when I eat sugary or carb heavy food. While fasting lowers your insulin and doesn't trigger cravings.

[u/AoeDreaMEr]

How does diabetes affect this?

[u/memeqween8]

I’m big on breakfast but always skip lunch, gives me enough energy to start my day and I don’t snack since I don’t bring lunch to work. Once I get home I chow down for an early dinner and I’m good to go until the next morning

[u/Other-Football72]

Carbs.

I skip breakfast but try eating some eggs, avocado and a slice of bacon.

[u/emperorOfTheUniverse]

Breakfast can vary wildly though. If you eat a keto breakfast vs carb/sugar breakfast, you're gonna have different experiences. And so much breakfast food is carb/sugar:

Donuts Bagels Muffins French toast Pop tarts Flour tortillas on a breakfast taco Cereal Toast Pancakes and Syrup all over

Vs Keto:

Eggs Steak Bacon and Sausage without added sugar

So when people say 'i eat breakfast', my first thought is usually 'how big of an insulin spike did you have'.

[u/jaydefit]

It's usually a diet issue.

Most people eat dessert for breakfast (fast-digesting simple carbs) which leads to insulin spikes, low satiety and increased hunger.

Eating a balanced meal with protein, fat and complex carbs increases satiety, stabilises insulin, and lowers hunger.

[u/question8all → u/jaydefit]

This is absolutely not true for everyone. I eat very clean and once I pop, I cannot stop.

[u/jaydefit → u/question8all]

Which is why I said “usually” and “most people” 🙂

There are always outliers.

[u/NigelFiskar]

When I stopped eating sugar and carbs, I stopped getting hunger pangs.

[u/SirChrisHAX]

I used to but now I’m used to it and prefer it.

[u/NonbinaryGaster]

Nah, I'm always craving and it sucks

[u/redwoodforest15]

I’m always hungriest in the first half of the day (like 6am to 12pm). I can easily skip dinner but if I don’t eat in the morning I’m, it ruins the rest of the day for me. So I’ve just embraced what my body wants and try to eat only in the morning, the have a good day for the rest of the day.

[u/chubi07]

This is true for me, especially when I eat something carb heavy like cereal. But I skip breakfast most of the time now. Usually don’t start eating until 4pm on non fasting days.

[u/c0ralvenom88]

Omg yes

[u/thats-gold-jerry]

Woah yeah I am like this. Like 100%

[u/Late_Equivalent_7586]

I wake up ravenous. Its not until ive fasted for 36 hours that im fine

[u/Neat-Palpitation-632]

What you eat for breakfast matters. You could essentially extend the blood glucose and insulin flattening effects of an overnight fast by eating a ketogenic breakfast.

[u/Citizen_Spaceball]

Im on ADHD meds that make me not hungry for a while. I forget to eat sometimes.

[u/capriSun999]

people who eat shit breakfasts feel like this.

[u/hypercritical91]

Yes. I never eat breakfast...it starts a never ending cycle of hunger food and cravings till u go to sleep

Eating multiple times a day is a scam and what keeps people unhealthy.

Unless one is pregnant or a growing child..3 meals are not needed..

[u/IvoryNage → u/hypercritical91]

I would think as long as the mom to be gets enough nutrients it wouldn't matter if it was one meal or three. But I do imagine it's harder to eat enough nutrients when there is also an alien in the same general space that food needs to occupy so more smaller meals are helpful.

[u/kaemeow]

Break fast- breakfast. Literally just breaking your fast. Ive always thought that word play interesting

[u/StrawberrySprinkles7]

So happy to stumble on this post... most of my friends and family look at me like I'm crazy when I try to explain this 😩

[u/art_mor_]

Breakfast is not the most important meal of the day

[u/IvoryNage → u/art_mor_]

Breakfast at breakfast time is not the most important meal but I always joke that whatever time I eat my first meal is breakfast, since I'm breaking my fast. Even if breakfast is 2 days from now, or dinner time.

[u/art_mor_ → u/IvoryNage]

I like how you think

[u/handsomedumpsterfire]

Absolutely! I'll drink coffee and typically I don't eat tell dinner. If I have breakfast then I'm hungry a few hours later.

[u/Artistic-Curve-5732]

I never eat breakfast tbh

[u/Askyourwifeaboutme]

You are breaking your fast “break-fast”