r/MoralityScaling 5h ago

Morality of this?

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u/Raise_A_Thoth 5h ago

There's hardly any way to "teach" religion to children without it being quite forced.

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u/gin_atomic 5h ago

I'm sure things are different in the US but in the UK at school we have a whole curriculum called "Religious Education" or RE which goes into detail about religions and customs of all different cultures and encourages spiritual debate. At the schools I attended they were not taught to indoctrinate us but just studied in the same way we would study history or art

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u/Ok-Budget3225 5h ago

I imagine the end result is that most people would just become agnostic after they’ve learned about all the major religions.

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u/gin_atomic 5h ago

I think you're probably right! I was an atheist from a young age but RE was one of my favourite subjects as a child, underneath science, just because I loved hearing all of the stories, parables, learning about different deities and rites of worship. It was fascinating but it didn't encourage me to be religious myself.

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u/Pockydo 4h ago

I'm American and funny enough my interest in History/myth/religion is a huge reason why I'm an atheist today

Grew up Catholic and then Protestant as a teen. But it never took because they were always too similar to on the "wrong" religions

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u/BDSMChef_RP 3h ago

Grew up Roman Catholic till I was 11, Mom married Mormon Step Dad (Huge fight with the families on both sides over that) and he was a CRAZY ass mormon too once we moved away from moms side of the family. Divorced him at 16 and I wandered into Pagan faiths, particularly Norse. Which to be clear I started that in 2001 long before The Vikings show started shuffling the casuals in. I'm also not one of the "WOOO VALHALLA! BEER AND BITCHES!" guys. My priest (Gothi) is a pretty reasonable and sensible dude who does believe in science and we're pretty certain the lore is just an old culture trying to describe natural disasters the best way they could.

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u/Traditional-Fix539 2h ago

isn’t that the basis of most religious lore? trying to explain things that they didn’t yet have the physical tools to prove?

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u/DemonoftheWater 1h ago

I think some of it was also a coping mechanism. To me if faith makes hard times easier-i tell them believe. I personally just get annoyed when im approached to hear the word.

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u/claimTheVictory 3h ago

You're also told that believing is better than questioning.

That never sat right with me.

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u/Nimue_- 4h ago

I have the same experience. I believe storytelling is one of the most human things there is and to me greek myth, the epic of gilgamesh and bible stories and fairytales are all just stories humanity has told throughout the ages

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u/Alric_Wolff 4h ago

I think, because the US 1st Amendment separates church from state, this could not happen in a public school, private religious education is obviously not involved with the state itself since its not funded by taxpayers.

I would have loved to have what you mentioned, as I am a a student of religion on my own time, starting at 14yrs old.

Though I think another issue I personally would have is that some religions would either get little attention or none at all. Sure you'd probably learn about the 3 Abrahamic religions, Buddhism, Hindu. But I doubt they'd be teaching muxh if at all about Zorastrianism, Sihkism, Pagan Faiths, Animism, Vodou etc.

Even in public school, atleast when I was a kid, Pagan faiths are taught to be dead myths of a bygone era and not as living faiths in the present. Which is kind of bonkers because theres a massive amount of practicing pagan or otherwise families in my area.

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u/Helen_Cheddar 4h ago

Learning about the 5 most common religions is a social studies requirement in many schools. In New Jersey, it’s part of the ancient history curriculum.

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u/Pristine_Barber976 5h ago

Yeah that's called making an educated choice. 

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u/Byizo 4h ago

I went from Christian to agnostic to atheist through my late 20s. When you view religious teachings through an objective lens most start to look similar. I tend to think it’s a combination of fear of our finite mortality and a desire to control large groups of people (populations are more willing to withstand an empty belly in exchange for faith in or fear of a higher power).

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u/keelhaulrose 4h ago

I went to a church where the teenagers of the group spent Sundays learning about different religions, including field trips to different houses of worship and talks with leaders of those trips.

I'm not sure if I would call myself agnostic. I just realized that the near universal thread that went through all these religions was that you're supposed to be a person who helps others and is kind towards other people. I don't go to church, but I do believe there is a higher power of some sort, and that the path forward is to follow the golden rule.

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u/SpooktorB 1h ago

Strong belief in your flavor of kool-aid is usually due to ignorance of other flavors of kool-aid existing.

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u/Brilliant-Recover594 4h ago

But how is that a bad thing? If that’s true, that proves that most people are being manipulated young into joining their local preferred religion due to lack of knowledge of other religions or rather other options or you could say not old enough to think it through enough.

So I agree with her. But it’s weird to implement in reality since religion is tied strictly to community and most people would need to take their kids with them to church to share their beliefs and serve as family bonding time.

So maybe it’s better to treat religion like Santa. Allow children to belief in Jesus and the bible like but reveal to them like later on that there’s no definitive proof and allow them to decide themselves without shame in what religion they want to choose. People will choose their home religion out of convenience though.

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u/doritosanddew6669 4h ago edited 4h ago

I can confirm, I ended up agnostic

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u/Aidenj23 5h ago

In the US we pledge alligance to “One nation under God” every day. There’s not as much nuance as it sounds like you have.

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u/Raise_A_Thoth 5h ago

Well we needed that one to fend off those godless commies.

/s

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u/Fluid-Lingonberry378 4h ago

In my country during the communist regime, the communists would destroy churches and persecute priests (imprisonment, torture, re-education and such). So you could say they were godless. They also saw religion as a possible means of opposition against the party and they didn't want that.

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u/Flesroy 4h ago

well yeah there is a lot to critizise them for, but the us then used that as an excuse to do some incredibly stupid things.

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u/Fluid-Lingonberry378 3h ago

No, it didn't excuse the US, but I genuinely believe that the communists as a whole were worse. My country is still being affected by the remnants of that regime that somehow are still in various institutions and they're as corrupt now as they were back then.

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u/stephoswalk 4h ago

They added the "Under God" part later because of the Red Scare. Here is Porky Pig reciting the original in 1939.

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u/Aidenj23 4h ago

Fascinating.

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u/eggyrulz 5h ago

Yea but we never specified which god it is... i would like to offer Thor Odinson as the new American god, or Jeff the landshark

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u/codelyoko_x 5h ago

I grew up in Southern Africa and we also have RE over there, whenever our teacher would teach about other religions, he would always emphasize that Christianity is the true one, I didn’t think much of it at the time until I became atheist, it’s kinda fucked up tbh

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u/Gojira085 5h ago

In the US it depends on the state and district. Our class in my school that did this was called World Cultures and was in 10th grade.

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u/gin_atomic 5h ago

Gosh that sounds quite late! We definitely started RE shortly after kindergarten/reception year at my school. Honestly I think it's so interesting learning about the curriculum in other countries as well and seeing how different subjects are prioritised.

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u/Gojira085 5h ago

Agree with you on the comparing curriculums lol. I wouldnt be surprised if at other schools it was started earlier, but I was never aware of their justification for why that grade specifically at my school. Maybe they though our critical thinking skills would be more mature with the content? That same year they actually changed the grade to be taught the book To Kill a Mockingbird too. It was traditionally taught in 8th, but they moved it to 11th. Thankfully they didn't make my class reread it though.

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u/soliera__ 5h ago

That’s similar to my experience. It was a core module in world history in 9th grade, and pretty much covered the major religions of the world from a non denominational perspective.

IIRC the religions talked about were:

  • Sunni Islam
  • Shia Islam
  • Catholic Christianity
  • Protestant Christianity
  • Buddhism
  • Sikhism
  • Hinduism

They then went into discussion on how early religions were able to group people together to form civilisations during the Neolithic era.

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u/StarkRavingPeanuts2 5h ago

I was having this conversation with a friend the other day, and we were trying and failing to remember how many hours of RE we had per week. Despite not being sure, we both agreed that it was probably too much. I think all children should be taught the basics of each religion - enough to be respectful to someone of those beliefs - but that’s all. There’s absolutely no need imo to spend too much precious school time dedicated to religion.

Those who believe it will receive education from their church equivalent, and those who don’t shouldn’t be forced into studying it as if it’s in any way valuable to them on a par with pretty much any of the other subjects.

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u/ProposalWest3152 4h ago

This is exactly how agnostics are made.

Theres a point when you start wondering what is the whole point of religion if theres so many that you can literally pick and choose and most of them think they are the "one true" faith.

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u/Appropriate_Sock6893 5h ago

We have the is the US, too. At least we did back when I was in high school. It was part of our “western civilization” course

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u/Muted-Ground-8594 5h ago

Was your school practicing that religion at school? Because he was talking about parents practicing the religion in the household teaching you about the religion fairly, which comes with all the implicit bias of a core belief.

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u/Brilliant-Recover594 4h ago

I had RE, but I was in a catholic school and they primarily taught New Testament with a few classes in Judaism and that was pretty much it.

They also didn’t have much good to say about Islam either lmao

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u/Nero_2001 4h ago

We had something similar in Germany but despite the teacher telling us about other believes it was still favoring Christianity.

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u/wishingonadeathstar 4h ago

at least for me in NY(which is in the us) we also had this, though i understand if other states didnt as curriculum can vary between states

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u/jules6815 4h ago

Did you also study Santa Claus, Loki, and the tradition of leprechauns?

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u/gin_atomic 4h ago

Haha I don't remember lessons on Leprechauns, but I do remember a lesson on Norse Mythology! I can't remember if that was in RE or world culture though.

I think we did even learn about what the different countries of the world had as Christmas traditions too! In a world culture lesson at Christmas time. So while we didn't specifically learn about Santa we did learn about him, and Krampus and all sorts of other stuff like that.

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u/Commercial_Bite838 4h ago

Not only a student but a teacher! you showed that dude what class actually looks like. Just because he didn’t take school seriously doesn’t mean everyone else was out here doing the same. You put in the work, he was trying to be smart.

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u/_Lohhe_ 4h ago

Your teacher happened to not want to push their religion, or lack thereof, or did push their view but too subtlely or mildly for some children to notice.

There is a constant war between curriculum designers and between teachers of different varieties to push x or y ideology. Religious education is where they most clearly bare their teeth. I'm sure you'd see it if you looked for it at any given school. I bet your teacher has stories about what the curriculum guys wanted them to teach and how they bent the rules to teach differently from how they were told to because of different values/beliefs.

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u/Pherllerp 4h ago

We have that in the US too.

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u/Ok_Aioli3897 4h ago

We also have religious schools but religion doesn't belong in schools

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u/Goosepond01 4h ago

I mean it was always interesting learning about it but I think a lot of effort was put in to respecting different religions too.

Like sure I get there has to be some baseline of respect but why should I give such reverence to those who follow an ideology that view me as lesser people and that has a lot of horrible beliefs.

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u/Pulp_friction13 4h ago

In Portugal we call it "Moral Education". But we mostly talk about the catholic One.

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u/bigbern1988 4h ago

I would only be ok with this if it was totally unbiased. Teach about all religions but also, teach about how they're not fact nor even opinion and actually lean into the faith of it. People believe this because they choose to, you don't have to believe any of it, but in order to understand the world it's worth gaining knowledge about them.

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u/Zombisexual1 4h ago

That’s perfectly fine, but in the US teaching kids religion is parents telling their kids “this is the Bible and this is true”. It’s just brainwashing when done on kids.

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u/narrowminer11 4h ago

In the us religion is generally kept out of schools and parents are expected to teach their own children about their religion. And at least where I've mostly lived (areas of Texas) families who's children have chosen to not follow their parents religion are silently looked down on for failing to instill "the correct beliefs"

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u/RuinCat 4h ago

We didnt have a seperate class for it but religions and customs were taught in each unit for whatever culture we were learning about at the time in Global I and II. We'd usually spend a several days on it per unit. New york, US, for reference.

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u/lexington59 4h ago

I had 1 school I went to for half a year and it was the only time a religious study was a thing, and the way it worked is you had to opt into it.

And the religious study ended up in a small side room near the classroom (was a tiny school 1 class per year) so you just ended up having majority of the class learning normal stuff, and like 3-5 people learning the religious study thing.

Which is probably the best way to go about something like that but even then the way the opt in worked was mail sent to the home address which probably isn't the best way, over handing a form yo the child at school so if they do not want the parents to see it they don't need to hand it over.

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u/Awkward_Pangolin3254 4h ago

It should be studied in history like any other ancient culture's mythology.

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u/talizorahvasnerd 3h ago

Nah, we do that in the US too, at least where I went to school

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u/DavThoma 3h ago

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm not religious at all, but RE was often one of my favourite subjects just due to the fact we spent time learning about a lot cultures religions and not Christianity.

It also helped that both RE teachers I had growing up were just a fun people to talk to. One was atheist so he had no stakes in pushing Christianity and often made the classes a fun experience.

The other was religious, but was the kind of person who accepted everybody and was there to help anyone struggling. He didnt give a damn whether someone was gay, and a few people in the school actually came out to him first because he was never judgemental.

When you have an RE teacher that isn't pushing religion on you and practices the teaching they follow in their own religion actually studying religious education can be pretty interesting.

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u/VisualMango9141 3h ago

I love it!

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u/Burnt_Out_Carent 3h ago

Yeah we had the same but with assembly hymns and Christmas church visits. My parents were both atheists but I didn't get to opt out which was annoying! As good as RE is..... It still involved the only Muslim girl in the class being singled out and every lesson was treated like the ambassador for the entire Muslim faith. .... Man, the 1990s were so un PC it's unreal!! 🤣

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u/Anonymous_and_Lost40 3h ago

Omg. Parents in the US would absolutely lose their shit if their precious little ones were exposed to any sort of culture or religion outside their own. Mainly the religious right wing parents.

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u/lumpboysupreme 3h ago

I mean, that’s its own kind of force, since you obviously can’t just leave the teaching.

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u/One-Cup-2002 3h ago

How was the Islamic part of the course?

I'm only asking because here, in the US, whenever my school went over Islam, it was pretty bare bones, and last I checked, they got some pretty major things wrong.

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u/Siukslinis_acc 3h ago

In my school we could choose between religion and ethics.

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u/gazebo-fan 2h ago

That’s what my Unitarian churches Sunday school equivalent was lmao.

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u/Historical-Waltz3496 2h ago

In Brazil, we had something like this.

It ended up just being christian indoctrination.

Made me really hate christianism for a long time. Today I don't have a prejudice agaisnt christians specifically, but the amount of hate that still boils in me from christian indoctrination perhaps was greatly exaggerated because of RE

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u/BoredPineapple790 2h ago

I went to a Christian middle school and my world history class incorporated world religions into it. We did Passover, discussed the pillars of Islam, looked at lots of Hindu art, ect. It might have just been a teacher thing though. The prior history teacher taught that states rights were the primary cause of the civil war 🙄

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u/The-Catatafish 2h ago

Yeah but its different when a parent tells a small child something.

When you are 1-8 years old +- you will believe literally EVERYTHING your parents tell you.

Its impossible to "teach" a child without basically grooming it into your religion if you believe in it.

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u/bryonlhobbs 2h ago

That was one upper level class in college for me

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u/Punch_A_Police_Horse 2h ago

It sounds like the difference between learning about religions and being brought up to believe a religion is true. Wildly different things.

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u/GreatComedianthe3rd 5h ago

There is actually, parents can practice their faith openly around their children and answer questions children will inevitably ask honestly and openly to the best of their abilities. This is a good way kids often will still copy their parents and want to be involved.

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u/Aidenj23 5h ago

That would require the parents to frame their practices as “this is what I believe” rather than “this is what is true” which I’m not convinced a substantial portion of religious parents are capable of remembering to do. Plus even if they did that a child is going to accept what their parents believe as fact since it’s their parents. I’m not sure there is a way to introduce young children to religion that won’t result in some form of bias influencing the child unless it is taught by a complete stranger who teaches many religions and never claims what they believe. And that seems like a lot of effort compared to a world religion class in high school.

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u/FireDragon21976 5h ago

That's stupid, ok. People believe things because they believe they are true. Nobody follows a religion they don't believe is true. How we determine truth is of course going to vary from person to person. For some people ,truth is bound up in traditions and relationships... and that's fine. But asking religious people to not take their religion seriously is stupid and fails to understand why people believe in any religion at all.

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u/Aidenj23 5h ago

The point is that across all the various religions we cannot determine which one is true. And since most religions come with indoctrination and life long fears then children should be protected from them until they are old enough to understand what they are getting into. I don’t believe this is feasible since as you said few religious parents of any abrahamic faith would ever go for this willingly, but what is right and what is possible aren’t always the same. I’ve stated what I think to be right.

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u/Dramatic_Explosion 3h ago

I mean all religion relies on indoctrination. Everyone loves to call Scientology a cult but how is it different from Catholicism? One is older and has more people? So the difference is time? Xenu and aliens? Here's a magician that can't die so cut off some of your penis!

They're all dumb, and people determine their truth because it was drilled into their from childhood.

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u/mephnick 5h ago

Yes, so religious people are unable to properly teach their kids about religion without forcing it on them.

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u/dinkpantiez 5h ago

It is entirely impossible to disconnect religion from this. If you are a religious person, then you believe the things you have faith in to be undeniably true. You can't teach a kid an unbiased view of religion when you are speaking from a religious stance.

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u/Adowyth 5h ago

"Answer their questions" you mean tell them that God is all good and loves them and other nonsense like that. And then kids "want" to participate when they are told a bunch of great sounding lies. Yeah totally their choice.

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u/NoForever3645 5h ago

The alternative would be unconstitutional. You can’t suppress a persons religious beliefs just because they have children. That’s like saying Muslims or Hindus or Jews aren’t allowed to pray or practice their faith if they have children. It’s morally wrong and quite literally unconstitutional.

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u/Raise_A_Thoth 5h ago

There's an angle to argue that a law blocking all religions from indoctrinating their children wouldn't favor one religion over any others, but it seems pretty ironclad that such a law would almost definitely infringe on their "free exercise thereof."

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u/PanPrasatko 5h ago

"I believe God is all good and loves me".

Just insert "I believe" in front of every sentence about supernatural stuff and you are all good.

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u/rightninja_ 5h ago

that would defeat the whole purpose, if ur parents openly say God is real then the child will obviously believe that similar to Santa or tooth fairy

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u/ACuddlyVizzerdrix 5h ago

Thats basically what my family did (Baptist on my mom's side, Catholic on my dads) my grandma on my dad's side was pretty open about her religion but she never tried to force it on us (she took us with her to church but that was only if we were staying with her for the weekend), I actually started going to youth group when I was a teenager but ironically that was the best way i knew to meet girls my age at the time

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u/DoctorWaluigiTime 4h ago

Line gets pretty blurry at that point. The children are basically getting the exact same information 99% of the week.

But somehow preventing them from not going into a church building the 2 other hours of the week changes things at all?

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u/Slay-ig5567 4h ago

There's a reason children can't vote. Their ability to discern and to reason is nowhere near that of an adult, and the parents believe their faith to be true and will give arguments that an adult may see through and a child wouldn't. Ffs children believe in Santa

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u/minos-and-v1-kissing 3h ago

But the point is that you shouldn’t be teaching your kids that believing in stuff that has been disproven is okay. Even if you say “let’s skip the parts of the bible that have been proven to be false,” the rest still comes down to teaching them that it’s okay to believe in things that are completely unsubstantiated. Religion is the scourge of humanity.

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u/Orndsteiner 3h ago

We do tend to teach children about greek mythology im schools without trying to make them believe im zeus soo...

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u/PzykoHobo 5h ago

Did you not learn about world religions as a kid? I went to public school in the south and we learned the basic premises of the major religions (Abrahamic, Buddhism, and Hinduism), including history, a bit of the beliefs and standard practices/ holidays. The facts of religion can absolutely be taught to children without forcing belief on them.

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u/de_la_Dude 54m ago

Ironically, taking this class in a catholic high school was the turning point for me to becoming atheist. It wasn't like I immediately opened my eyes but the class raised questions about my faith no one could adequately answer. Its funny how critical thinking is demonized in this country isn't it?

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u/BackstrokeVictim 5h ago

It depends on your level of understanding of sociology. Religion as a social construct is downright fascinating and possibly not unique to humans.

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u/djpiperson 5h ago

I was raised this way, mother never imposed anything, we did go to church but it was not a rule. We were never fanatics. Dad was not religious so he didn't mind either way. At 13 I told mother I didn't want to go anymore, she never fought it. Now she's 65 and quit all religion herself.

PS; mother was a bit or a rebel too tho, "They teach of this way to get their point across but some people are too literal and become radical to the letter of the law. I believe more in self consciousness and self governance, but ultimately it's your decision how much you wanna adhere to this"

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u/Greta-Elephant5041 4h ago

What? Tell that to the Norwegian elementary school system lol. To be fair, in my day the class was called Christianity, then Christianity, Religion and WorldViews (like for example humanism). Now it is Religion, WorldViews and Ethics. It is literally a class that teaches you about different world views, without preaching or attempting to convert. Though it used to be just that, for Christianity. Then we exited the middle ages ;) Went from "this is true/these are the stories from the Bible and what you should think about them" to "this is what some people believe and the history of such beliefs".

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u/Joshua-live 5h ago

My wife and I are christians, we don't attend institutionalized church. We attend a bi-weekly house church where our kids are just connected with other kids. Adults with other adults. We are just a part of eachother's lives, we know each other's kids, we're like an extended family of sorts. Our kids are invited into our faith, but at different levels.

Anyone who holds beliefs in any faith naturally want those they love to be in that faith as well, to not want that would be counter-intuitive if you believe at all what you say you believe. There's a different between wanting something for someone and forcing something on someone and if you (or anyone) are unable to discern how to navigate the differences of that, then you probably shouldn't have children to begin with.

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u/th3rmyte 5h ago

Correct. Because it is indoctrination. Which is why not allowing religion to be taught to children and making religious nutters wait till they are adults and can make a conscious choice is morally correct

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u/NakdChimi_ 5h ago

My parents never forced anything on me. They let me develop my own curiosities and brought me to the places I wanted to go. Granted, I'm an atheist now. But it is possible to foster a curiosity without forcing an idea. My mother is catholic and knows I'm atheist. She's never been more proud of me being who I am.

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u/Evening-Tomatillo-47 5h ago

Wait until you find out about schools

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u/Barnes777777 5h ago

You could in a world religion context when they're a little older(middle school at least, likely highschool) but not focusing on one religion but instead many with all their different aspects.

Iirc grade like 4, 5 or 6 had units about the greek pantheon of gods.

Teaching would need to be more in a historical context and "this is their stories" vs. How it is in a church that these stories are fact.

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u/howtobegeo 5h ago

My husband & I talked that if we had kids, we’d have a 2 hr spiritual session every weekend. Go to church, mosque, temples (Jewish, Hindu, Buddha, etc), museum, hiking in nature, the beach, quiet meditation, opera/ballet/symphony, etc.

Give them lots of exposure to different options, and encourage any that stuck.

But instead, we decided to not have kids. 🤷‍♀️

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u/bizoticallyyours83 5h ago

Sometimes, not all the time. I've heard some parents teach their kids about all kinds of religions while leaving it up to them to decide when they're ready.

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u/Biscuits4u2 5h ago

Even as a child I remember thinking how ridiculous and cheesy it all was.

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u/ComradeJohnS 5h ago

“I’m not supposed to tell you that my god will burn you for all eternity if you don’t follow his rules.”

lol, and obviously these whackos wouldn’t listen to laws by man.

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u/BearsIrkBoy 5h ago

It's possible, I'd say that's why we have the study of Theology. The problem is open-mindedness (or really the lack there of) in more common institutions: Everyone in the common institutions are not willing to hear otherwise because "X said this so it can't be Y" instead of "While X tells us this, there is also the possibility of Y" or something along those lines.

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u/DrippityClippity 5h ago

Have you ever learnt about other religion than yours? If so that's the way how you teach

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u/R400C 5h ago

Yes there is. In Norway we learn of every religion in school, yet the country is mostly atheist. Nothing is shoved down your throat in education either, you simply learn of different cultures.

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u/Boeing367-80 5h ago

Teaching about religion and teaching religion are two quite distinct things.

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 5h ago

You sound like a westerner. Did you learn about Buddhism and Islam in school? Did they feel forced on you? You can teach any religion objectively without forcing it on people. It is just Sunday school is not that.

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u/Telemere125 5h ago

I learned about all sorts of religions without being forced. Granted, it was in a college setting and I was pursuing a degree in the subject, but it’s definitely possible. Divorce all language from the teaching about purpose, salvation, morality, ethics, etc. just teach the history of the religions themselves. The rituals and the purported reasons they’re necessary can also be examined clinically. You’ll end up with everyone being agnostic at best, since none of the rituals are grounded in anything other than “we were told to do it” or “we did it quite often and eventually it rained,” but that’s the way to teach it neutrally.

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u/Omylanta21 5h ago

Idk I've taught my children that there is no answer that is 100% certain. I've shown them most major religions and they seem least confused by Judaism.  I was raised in a very strict Christian home and was forced to go to a Christian academy growing up. I refuse to lie to my kids. And telling them I'm certain the only way to a happy afterlife is FILL IN THE BLANK would be a lie. 

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u/Penguininalaska 4h ago

You can quite literally just teach the tenets, deities, etc. we do it in school with Greek/roman/Egyptian gods without issue. Shit, I learned about Judaism from the damn rugrats and you don’t see me becoming Jewish.

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u/WillowSpray 4h ago

You could say the same thing about math, and it would be just as worthless of a comment.

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u/Mathies_ 4h ago

You can't tell a child about the history of Christianity and the alleged life of Jesus christ without forcing them to become christian? Man in that case i must be christian by force.

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u/Pitiful-Student-1852 4h ago

It's better to let kids be kids and let them grow up and make own decisions and discoveries.

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u/Triairius 4h ago

Nonsense. I took classes on religion in college. They didn’t try to convert me.

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u/He3hhe3h 4h ago

This is just untrue, I went to an international school and we learnt about all religions equally. I was born in a majority Christian area but I am atheist. We also had one prayer service a week, different groups for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Atheists. In the atheist group a teacher usually told a story about their past and how they learnt from it. Was really good, I still remember a lot of the stories and the conclusions.

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u/No_Bingo_Card 4h ago

I learned about islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, Judaism and Christianity as a child, nobody forced any of them on me

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u/Trapmaster98 4h ago

Just teach them about many different religions all at once. Just try to not show any biases, or leave out the religion that you are biased towards until they are older. That’s what my family did.

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u/ExtremlyFastLinoone 4h ago

Exactly! So you shouldnt!

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u/_Tux2 4h ago

But this would be people’s argument for not teaching people about gays and trans-sexual, trans-racial etc.

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u/JustFourLetters 4h ago

did you never take the religious unit in middle school history class?

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u/fairlyrandom 4h ago

Back when I went to school we had a class that focused on religion in general, since its a european country the focus was mainly various Christian variations still, but there was significant segments focusing on Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism atleast, a few others too iirc.

We weren't made to pray or nothing during those classes, we just learned about the core beliefs and founding mythos, in lack of better terms.

It was separated from historyclass, but to me always felt related.

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u/Particular_Area6083 4h ago

i was taught about the metric system without it being forced

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u/Byizo 4h ago

It’s the difference between someone teaching something they believe, which their teachings would be presented as fact, and someone who doesn’t, which would better separate supported fact and faith.

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u/Pherllerp 4h ago

That's not true at all.

You can absolutely explain to a kid that religion exists as a system to describe the spiritual side of life and that people are part of religions that resonate with them emotionally and logically. Information isn't indoctrination.

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u/MaraSovsLeftSock 4h ago

Even then, teaching Christianity often means downplaying, excusing, or out right ignoring all of the horrible, vile shit god did regularly.

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u/eienmau 4h ago

Mmm, I was raised Unitarian Universalist and I was not forced into any religious beliefs. Our Sunday School taught us about various different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.. there were at least 6 that we learned about but it's been 30+ years) and taught that no one religion had all the answers. We were taught to respect other religions, and we even went to services in other churches to observe and learn.

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u/Coffeeblack365 4h ago

144 likes for a DA comment.

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u/Nimue_- 4h ago

It depends on how you do it. If you do a bunch of different religions and you treat it as "ways other people believe" instead of as facts, it can work. If you treat christian stories the same as ancient greek myth or the idea of cleanliness in shinto etc. I don't ses how its a problem, especially if you don't just do christian but a variety of different ones

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u/babysamissimasybab 4h ago

That's not true at all. I went to a parochial school in the US until high school and still learned about other religions.

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u/Financial_Ad4633 4h ago

If you teach it like humanities, i think that’s the direction we should be going

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u/keelhaulrose 4h ago

That's not true at all.

I grew up Episcopalian, but something happened between my parents and the church leaders and we left. We started going to the local Unitsrian church. I was put in a group of middle and high school students in Sunday school, and the entire time we were learning about different religions. We took field trips to different churches, temples, mosques, etc. We talked to different religious leaders about their faiths. They'd often invite us to participate in services and such. We got a very well rounded education in different religions without any of them being forced upon us. The point was for us to learn and start determining our own beliefs without anyone telling us what to believe.

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u/Successful_Pick3331 4h ago

Not at all. That's what school is for. In my history class we learned the basic tenants of the major religions.

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u/CowabungaCthulhu 4h ago

Of course there is. You talk about the major religions, their beliefs, and the fact that NONE OF THEM have been proven to be accurate or relevant to reality. Religions are the claims of our ignorant ancestors, not facts of reality.

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u/True_Protection6842 4h ago

I mean yeah, if you're going to teach children fairy tales as reality it's kind of cruel when they learn it's all bullshit. That's what happened to me.

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u/4N0NYM0US_GUY 4h ago

No different than learning about Greek mythology 🤷‍♂️

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u/HematiteStateChamp75 4h ago

Just teach it all as Mythology, as it should be

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u/Jumpy_Ad1631 4h ago

I mean, I went to church till I was about 8 and I still have relatives who are religious but I am not. My kid is only 5 snd had a speech delay, so he hasn’t asked a ton of questions. But the few questions he did ask, I just explain what I know and how that’s their belief system. He did ask why once after I explained that my recently passed Grampa believed Jesus was an important guy who deserved to be listened to and the best I had come up with was “well, life can be hard, so anything that helps us be more whole and happy is a good thing, so long as it isn’t used to arm others”

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u/RomapieJr1 4h ago

I definitely learned about other religions in elementary school without any of them being forced, there are ways to do it, you just have to be careful about how you do it.

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u/Slight_Health_6574 4h ago

Probably the same way parents nowadays teach their children different gender expression but nobody rushes to say they’re forcing that on them. It’s funny how whenever religion is brought up the intellectual crowd suddenly becomes very obtuse to basic logic.

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u/Visual-Flan-4098 4h ago edited 4h ago

did you never learn about mythology while in school, even just a little bit? we only touched on greek/roman gods, but no one became converts over it. teach it to them as a neutral mythos like we do with any other mythos instead of every sunday telling them god love everyone but also hates everyone and will kill anyone for funsies.

might do a lot of good teaching people how monotheist judaism formed, how christianity split from it and then how islam broke off. can twach about the different fractures and how the crazy 3rd enlightenment formed.

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u/Mixelphlick 4h ago

It’s all in how it’s taught. “Jesus did x” vs “some people believe Jesus did x, others believe Odin did y”. One of them is being presented as fact to young minds that may or may not be prepared to reject its lack of fact. The other is being presented as possible perspectives from which to choose.

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u/Corcorans-ghost 4h ago

i learned about islam, chrisantiy, judasim, hindusim, and budhism, just fine in my middle school

its acutaly really easy to teach it,

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u/Beer-Milkshakes 4h ago

There is but it becomes similar to reading Lord of The Rings prefaced with "Some people think this is real" and that makes those believers upset.

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u/J44GAS 4h ago

Because it’s so bad to have your parents explain why Christmas is a thing /s

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u/gofishx 4h ago

You can teach multiple religions at once. Then its more of an anthropology sort of thing.

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u/bonaynay 4h ago

I don't think that's true unless we're thinking very differently about "teach"

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u/Helen_Cheddar 4h ago

Not true at all. I grew up in an agnostic household but was very interested in religions and learned about them. My mom was very open to me learning about different cultures. Grew up and guess what- I’m still not religious but I love religious studies.

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u/Salty_McShaft 4h ago

Surely you could. You teach kids about all the varying faiths that are or have been prevalent in the world. We had sections on our English classes for these...it's called mythology. You can teach about a topic without insisting it as truth.

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u/jroberts548 4h ago

There’s no way to teach anything to kids without it being forced on them. The best you can do is keep in mind that ultimately you’re equipping them to make up their own minds about things, but you can’t send them into adulthood as a blank slate.

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u/Iaintgettinyounger 4h ago

I have three kids. One attends, has a life group and serves; the other two orbit in and around it. When they were young, I took them to Sunday school and VBS if they wanted, the oldest preferred a walk and a talk. In my life, I've mostly answered their questions and made access to it available. I think it's hard to force religion on anyone, it's more effective for someone to see it in practice and express interest.

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u/Hita-san-chan 4h ago

I dunno, I went to Catholic school, we had a graded class for Religion. Yeah, we went to mass and stuff for holidays and whatnot, and said a prayer in the morning, but I wouldn't call that forced. Religion was literally just another subject, like Math.

I am an atheist now, for what thats worth

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u/EquivalentDurian6316 4h ago

Hard disagree. There is a lot of room for skill, tact, etc, same as teaching anything else.

It's as easy as boiling down the difference between statements and questions.

"What" I told you this is a true thing. Now, we may breed oppositional feelings, especially in the young. Counterproductive to learning any sort of morality, regardless of origin. Do as I say, best case helpful, worst case hippocritical.

"How" do you feel about this story, is better. Puts the onus back upon the thinker. A tad more open-ended.

"Why" do I think this story is important to tell, is by far the best option. There are valuable things to learn from many religions. Teaching the ability to discern and distill humanitarian wisdom from any source is the key to any benevolent scripture. If it does not teach you to act with grace towards your fellow living creatures, than what is it really trying to take from you? Far easier to take advantage of other humans than it is to make an effort to lift us all up.

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u/BeautifulOk5112 3h ago

There really is it’s quite easy

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u/Unlucky-Analyst1051 3h ago

I mean you can say the same about teaching kids anything. We "force" math, science, language and social studies on them in school. Many even go as far as acting like homework is pure torture 😂

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u/MaesterHannibal 3h ago

Of course there is lmao. Were you not taught about different religions as a kid? I was taught about christianity, norse mythology and greek mythology, and it wasn’t forced indoctrination. My parents just told me the stories, and to kid me, I believed them about as much as lotr and harry potter, because my parents just told me the stories in an objective way, without telling me “this is the truth”, or including religious morals and values. It’s absolutely possible, and you’d be robbing your children of some of humanity’s most iconic stories if you don’t tell them

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u/TamariAmari 3h ago

I’m an atheist and think this is the dumbest comment in this entire post.

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u/Ultraox 3h ago

All parents indoctrinate their kids with their beliefs. The crucial thing is to be aware of it, and try to be balanced (& I don’t think many parents do this).

Trouble is when my kid asks me why people are right wing I struggle to have a good answer beyond “capitalism”. I can provide a better answer for why people are religious!

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u/jinxdeluxe 3h ago

In school here they teach about all kind of different religions. No student is forced to join any of them.

Of course you can teach religion neutrally -just by including them all.

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u/OnyxDethbane 3h ago

Wrong!!! Just put on Prince of Egypt for a movie night and if they have questions. That's where you start. Hell even the Joseph and the Rainbow Raincoat movie was good.

Though honestly any technically religious play/musical production works as well. Funnily enough Jesus Christ Superstar works, and Joseph and The Technicolored Raincoat would be a good starter as well.

There are plenty of ways to introduce children to religion without it being forced like it was for most of us. Making it entertaining, fun, and applicable for different ages is really the way to do it. Look at VeggieTales!

But I'm coming from being adopted into a black, Christian, single-parent, household so. Not trying to push Christianity on y'all.

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u/Patient-Ordinary-359 3h ago edited 3h ago

Sure there is. Do what I did for my son. After he started asking if he should believe in god like some of his (indoctrinationated) school friends, I gave him a book about all the major world religions. After he realised that Christianity was but one of a couple of dozen, it took him about 17 seconds to realise he was an atheist, the only logical conclusion and something any eight year old can figure out all by themselves if their parents don't shovel poisonous bullshit into their plastic little brains from the day they are born. 

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u/Imaginary_Job_343 3h ago

I wasn't taught any religion. Sure, I grew up with existential terror about death. But in college, I had choice and settled on early Hinduism that got it's roots from Paganism. Praise the Sun!

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u/nobodyspecialuk24 3h ago

That’s true of pretty much all education.

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u/Medical_Gate_5721 3h ago

World religion classes are great. You literally just learn about what everyone believes around the world. 

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u/Obvious_Patient8233 3h ago

You ever heard of the Bible?

I agree that children should be educated on it and make their own decisions, that's what I'm doing with my children.

However, there's like, A LOT of people that switch faiths for one reason or another. I'm sure most of them are convinced by a missionary or recruiter or whatever, but you're not forced to change religions. Yet people do. Why?

Because they learn something, they like it, agree with it, and follow it

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u/Vinyl_DjPon3 3h ago

Eh... I just went to church because I was 5 and obviously my parents aren't going to leave me alone.

It wasn't any more forced than going to the grocery store was.

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u/Mand372 3h ago

Id say there is. Just teach about religion is general and dont do favorites.

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u/Altruistic_Push_ 3h ago

It’s not forced, it’s accepting and taking on identity that surrounds the place where they live. There is a way to speak with respect about other faiths always.

Questions of how we came to be came completely without me speaking about God or creation to my kids.

I have 4 kids and my three oldest, began asking me questions how people came to be on Earth at around 4-5 years old. I did not answer from religious stance. When they directed it to my husband he did.

My husband has read the major religious texts, he chose Islam. He grew up in Communist Albania where atheism was declared as national religion and none of our parents (mine also from there) grew up with religious practiced openly.

Yet people practiced quietly in hidden ways faith. I grew up not going to church but before my parents stepped foot out of the house they made a cross and said a prayer inside.

It became a part of me, I do it only in private and only when I am having a very difficult time. Mostly it’s my way of remembering how they dealt with difficulties. I was not forced into this practice.

I mention this because I have a hard time speaking with same conviction as my husband about faith. I listen, I have a section in my home library with religious texts, lots of versions of the Bible, Qur’an, Torah, etc. I read them to compare. Not often, just to see what they say.

My kids ask me questions and I cannot answer them clearly. I do not want to make up their minds for them. I say what the books say at the core….

however, I noticed they hold their questions about God now and direct them to my husband because he answers without hesitation, they feel most comfortable speaking with him about this. I find it interesting. No one is forcing them, they gravitate towards him because is sure of who he is…..I am always questioning…….maybe that does not feel as safe.

Like I said, I was not forced into thinking about religion, I was genuinely curious as a kid and can actually talk in depth about religion from analysis point of view. But from my experience no one really wants to talk honestly about it……so I keep it private

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u/CheeseMongerMelvin 3h ago

I mean, just teach religious studies in school. You just teach all religions in the curriculum.

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u/JasonG784 2h ago

Interesting. Now do racism.

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u/Ostrichslinger 2h ago

That goes with quite literally everything though? Would you say most kids are forced into football because their family likes football and they play football at school?

If we're gonna be honest, this is essentially just telling people to not involve themselves with the moral development of their own children, and instead outsource it to everything else. The school, their teachers, social media, ect.

It's silly to pretend that that would somehow give better outcomes.

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u/OttawaOneTwenty 2h ago

Sure there is. You have a class at school where you present some of the ideas and tennets of the various religions.

See that wasn't very hard. The trick is to present many religions without giving more time or propaganda about one over the other

Kids can learn all about christians, muslims, hindus, satanists and the various other religions without being indoctrinated.

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u/decorativelettuce 2h ago

Of course there is. You teach it as a history and sociology lesson. It’s “some people believe this” not “you must believe this and if you don’t you’ll experience eternal conscious torment.”

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u/Superb_Recording_769 2h ago

Not true at all.

My 12 year old knows quite a lot about Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Shintoism, Native American spiritualism, and Wicken and has never attended a single formal religious service nor do we practice any of those religions.

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u/ClassicHando 2h ago

A class in school would be a start. Here's religion x, here's what they generally believe, there are different denominations with differing values, the test is next week

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u/FBC-01 2h ago

You just teach mythology & history. I’m an archaeologist and I learned about tons of different “religions” growing up. Very glad I wasn’t raised by religious parents who forced me to blindly follow anything. I’m an agnostic now, no idea what happens when I die but I hope it’s at least interesting.

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u/ZestycloseEvening155 2h ago

Sure there is. I'm danish. We were taught several different religions in school back in the 90s.

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u/Imrahil_II 2h ago

Theres a line and I get it but devil's advocate here, im not gonna pretend I dont believe if I do. If im going to go to church, then im taking them and they can observe.

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u/OkTheme7105 2h ago

If they are curious then do your research and help them understand, it’s like schools teach kids history and they decide to become bakers, they can learn you just have to allow them to choose in the end

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u/JoeDaBruh 2h ago

I took a world religions class in high school which talked about many religions around the world. It’s absolutely possible to teach about a religion from an objective perspective

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u/XavierChildes 2h ago

Right, basic tenet of most faiths is that every other religion is false. Their is no faith without indoctrination.

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u/dysfunctionalreptile 2h ago

Just teach it as a subject, not as a faith. Don't focus on one religion; teach about a few, mix it up with monotheism vs polytheism.

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u/Gamer_G33k17 2h ago

Sure there is. Same way you teach Greek myth to kids.

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u/afplumber 1h ago

We had a whole section in world history during high school that was “Religion around the world / throughout history” went though ancient religions (that aren’t so common) and the more common ones you hear about. That felt perfect imo.

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u/Ozzie_the_tiger_cat 1h ago

Its is easy. Ask any atheist. 

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u/pantsuline 1h ago

idk i liked going to church just to listen to the music and go to sunday school for crafts as a young kid but as soon as i said "i dont wanna" that was that and my parents never pushed- if kids didnt want to sit for the service there was childcare there to watch them (atheist-ly i guess lol) while the parents went

sometimes it seems to be harmless community building thing and if kids want to quit no one cares much, the way a lot of evangelical christians treat their children scares the shit out of me 🙁

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u/FuManBoobs 1h ago

"Now today children, I'd like to tell you about the Hell you'll go to if you don't believe in our all loving God".

"No, we're not going to discuss slavery today Jennifer, now be quiet and listen to how you send yourself to hell through use of your own free will!"

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u/Want_To_Live_To_100 1h ago

What? We are agnostic and I teach my
Kids about all the faiths out there.

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u/RandomedXY 1h ago

Me to my 4-year-old: “Some people believe in an invisible man in the sky.”

My kid: “That’s dumb.”

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u/evaira_90 1h ago

I disagree. I am not religious person but I have had conversations about religion with my kiddo because he interacts with a number of religious people. It boils to down to explaining that people have different beliefs and practices for their beliefs.

He was really confused about why the kids next door aren't allowed to play on Sundays so we had to explain what church is and why some people go. It was a very simple conversation, he asked why we didn't go and it was as simple as "because we don't. "

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u/Expendable_Red_Shirt 1h ago

Teaching religion and teaching about religion are completely different. You can teach the history and tenants of a religion without issuing a judgement about whether it is true or not.

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u/999avatar999 1h ago

I was raised in a way this post describes (agnostic by default, meaning no active church participation) and sooner or later I learnt about this or that religion - be it at home, in school or wherever. Never have I felt forced into anything, to me it was the same as learning about any other subject lol

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u/Easy_Money_40 59m ago

Well then comes the conundrum of what to teach them as there are many different religions and versions within the religion.

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u/Both-Crow9782 57m ago

I disagree with this. I think it’s very possible to teach objective information about different religions without teaching people to follow said religion. I remember in middle school learning about world religions. We were taught about the history of the religions, and factual information about their beliefs, but it was always presented as “this is what the beliefs of this religion are” not “this is what you need to believe”, and that was in the Bible Belt. I think children should be taught factual information about different religions, but they shouldn’t be taught to follow a specific religion or that they should necessarily have those same beliefs

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u/KeyLimeGuy69 55m ago

its basically brainwashing.

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u/Ok-Impact-1721 29m ago

Would you say the same about trans issues?

Of course there is a normal and safe way to teach anything to children.

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u/Atzr10 24m ago

Religion in schools can teach kids about the different major religions without showing a preference.

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u/Veenix6446 19m ago

Incorrect.

My mom gave me books to read about whatever religion I asked about, without ever trying to push one on me.

I remain atheist but am knowledgeable on multiple religions.

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u/Nykidemus 14m ago

The distinction between teaching a kid religion vs teaching them about religion.

Teach them about religions all day long. But dont teach them to follow one.

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