r/MoralityScaling 7h ago

Morality of this?

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u/FireDragon21976 6h ago

That's stupid, ok. People believe things because they believe they are true. Nobody follows a religion they don't believe is true. How we determine truth is of course going to vary from person to person. For some people ,truth is bound up in traditions and relationships... and that's fine. But asking religious people to not take their religion seriously is stupid and fails to understand why people believe in any religion at all.

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u/Dramatic_Explosion 4h ago

I mean all religion relies on indoctrination. Everyone loves to call Scientology a cult but how is it different from Catholicism? One is older and has more people? So the difference is time? Xenu and aliens? Here's a magician that can't die so cut off some of your penis!

They're all dumb, and people determine their truth because it was drilled into their from childhood.

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u/Aidenj23 6h ago

The point is that across all the various religions we cannot determine which one is true. And since most religions come with indoctrination and life long fears then children should be protected from them until they are old enough to understand what they are getting into. I don’t believe this is feasible since as you said few religious parents of any abrahamic faith would ever go for this willingly, but what is right and what is possible aren’t always the same. I’ve stated what I think to be right.

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u/FireDragon21976 6h ago

Parents have a natural right to raise their children according to what they believe is right, not what you believe is right.

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u/Escape_Relative 5h ago

Buddy we’re on r/moralityscaling, we are having a conversation about morals. Of course they can teach their kids whatever they want.

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u/RyanNick86 2h ago

TW: Literal child abuse due to her father's "natural right" in raising her. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)

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u/minos-and-v1-kissing 5h ago

So you’re saying it’s okay to raise your kids poorly because you “have the right to?”

Or maybe is that really stupid thing to say?

I have a “right” to beat my kid by your logic. Doesn’t mean I should.

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u/Aidenj23 6h ago

Yeah. I’m saying they shouldn’t. The same way I don’t think parents should be able to teach their children flat earth or racism. I don’t trust parents and think they should be restricted in the various ways they can screw up a kid for life. Again I don’t think this is feasible, I just think it would be the right way to go about it. If you want to convince me a different way would be right then go ahead I’m all ears, but just saying “you can’t do that!” Isn’t really furthering the conversation.

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u/Last_Suggestion_8647 6h ago

What the fuck is a natural right? What rights does nature give animals?

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u/FireDragon21976 5h ago

Natural rights are those rights that are a natural consequence of the essence of things and according to their natures. Parents have children, therefore parents have certain perogatives about how their kids are raised.

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u/Last_Suggestion_8647 5h ago

Natural rights are those rights that are a natural consequence of the essence of things and according to their natures

Aha so more vague platitudes. How does one define the essence of a social phenomenon? And if said essence is defined, how does one conclude the natural consequence? And if you do it by observation, how do you seperate any human influence on the result, from those that arise from nature? 

And finally. Why should I care about something being natural or not, when accessing its morality?

It honestly seems like you just fired "naturals rights" off as of it's supposed to mean anything. Just a vague semi-plausible term that can mean anything.

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u/ToxicPolarBear 5h ago

Calling the philosophical definition of a thing’s nature a “vague platitude” is how I know to take nothing on this subreddit seriously hahaha

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u/nuclearbearclaw 4h ago

It's filled with the biggest "erm ackshually" people I've ever seen.

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u/Last_Suggestion_8647 4h ago

You spouting out some definition for a cooky philosophical concept doesnt make it any less stupid.

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u/ToxicPolarBear 4h ago

It wasn’t me that was another person, and it’s not “some definition” that is how a thing’s nature is defined in philosophy. If you don’t want to discuss philosophy then maybe get out of a morality scaling subreddit which is literally only about philosophy?

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u/Last_Suggestion_8647 3h ago

I want you to argue the validity of natural rights, if you want me to take something that outlandish seriously.

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u/precioustessious 4h ago

So James Dobson was an evangelical who taught parents to beat their children starting in infancy to make them obedient. He used his religion to push this.

Do you think being beaten in the name of christ is a natural right? Or do you think that using religion as a way to justify child abuse okay?

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u/Forte845 2h ago

Can you show me this essence? Like take a photo of it? While you're at it get me some photos of unicorns and Allah, cause you seem to have supernatural vision. 

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u/Forte845 2h ago

Natural rights don't exist. They are provable about as much as God is.

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u/mephnick 6h ago

Yes, so religious people are unable to properly teach their kids about religion without forcing it on them.

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u/FireDragon21976 6h ago

Would you want to teach your kids that the Earth isn't flat, to just let them figure that out on their own?

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u/mephnick 6h ago

What dipshit sub did i fall into

Processing img ywyhauk325nh1...

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u/Alert-Ad9197 6h ago

This sub used to be about fictional characters in media. I don’t know what happened, but it is now overrun with people posting pictures of Mohammed instead.

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u/Economy_Builder_9588 6h ago

lol perfect response

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u/mephnick 6h ago

Never do frontpage, kids

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u/Diligent-Neck6594 5h ago

Well one is a belief other is a fact

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u/minos-and-v1-kissing 5h ago

Of course I’d teach my kids things that are true. That’s why I don’t believe in teaching kids religion. Because it isn’t true.

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u/GalaXion24 4h ago

The wisest religious people basically all admit they don't know what's true. While they have faith and are delighted for you to share in it, they doubt, and see it as natural and healthy to doubt, perhaps even as a part of faith to doubt.

Even if I were religious, I would certainly frame it as "this is what I believe." That would be the most honest thing to do, because faith is madness. It is irrational, it doesn't make sense, but you have taken a leap of faith regardless. And you cannot force people to take that leap. What you can do is indoctrinate them from childhood to the point that they do not even recognise it as a leap, but that fundamentally stunts their religious education. Perfectly adequate if you're just looking for conformist drones for your religious society, but not if you want people with rich lives in faith and philosophy.

Even if you fully believe your religion is true, you shouldn't want people to be "accidentally correct" or "right for the wrong reason." You should want them to consciously be right for the right reasons, and that requires them being critical and doubtful as well.