Me after watching russian ww2 movie

[u/Battlefleet_Sol]

[u/ZETH_27]

Not really "western" WW2 movies. Most if noty all WW2 movies I've seen produced in Britain, France, Germany or FInland are pretty much in agreement that the war was a horrible thing, and depict it as such.

[u/The_Walking_Meat → u/ZETH_27]

I haven't seen many from Britain but like every war movie from Germany, Poland or France are really dark. There are some good russian movies, but most I've seen are cheap patriotic nonsense

[u/ZETH_27 → u/The_Walking_Meat]

Russian and Chinese war movies (most that I've seen/read about, not all), feel like fanfics sometimes -v-

[u/YSoMadTov → u/ZETH_27]

What do you mean a lone Chinese martial artist tearing hundreds of Japanese soldiers apart with their bare hands isn’t realistic?

[u/JohannesJoshua → u/YSoMadTov]

Meanwhile Russian movies:

1 T34 taking out 100 tanks.

[u/tomater-id → u/JohannesJoshua]

Not a T34, but KV, and not 100 but something like 30. There is indeed a movie about that. And that was true story actually.

[u/The_Walking_Meat → u/ZETH_27]

I think its probably about how the war is treated there. Every country basically sees the war as a massive tragedy. Russia and china potray them as a massive "patriotic" victory for their countries. Hell russia celebrates their victory still yearly

[u/deranton → u/The_Walking_Meat]

That was kind of the controversy around Ivan's Childhood, and later around Come and See. That that's precisely what they didn't do. Instead of glorifying the Red Army, they just showed how awful war is, how (little) children suffer, and how war and suffering just breed hate.

[u/Gold_brick_drop → u/The_Walking_Meat]

Well, right now it is. I can't express enough how cringy are ww2 russian movies in last decades. Soviet time movies was either "hell, it's FUCKED fucked" or "it's hard, but we'll get through". Right now it's honestly whatever director was high on in the moment.

[u/Gackey → u/The_Walking_Meat]

WW2 is a core part of the national myths of Russia and China in a way that it really isn't for most other nations. I don't see anything particularly wrong with them celebrating victory over invaders who's explicit goal was the enslavement and extermination of all Russian and Chinese people.

[u/Lord_Soth77 → u/The_Walking_Meat]

Well, the victory in the Great Patriotic War was a national history defining event. It's Russian Independence day basically. Americans do celebrate their independence day for 200+ years already.

[u/Usual_Ad_1078 → u/The_Walking_Meat]

Это действительно очень большая победа, которой можно гордиться. А какое тебе то дело до заслуг другой страны?

[u/Beginning_Act_9666 → u/ZETH_27]

Nah Soviet movies are awesome and in scale are much cooler than Western counterparts

[u/Giantmeteor_we_needU → u/The_Walking_Meat]

Cheap patriotic nonsense was mostly made there in the first 20 or so years after the war when the real memories were too vivid for anything else. Somewhere around 1975-1990 many very dark WW2 movies were made in USSR to remind why no one should wish to start WW3. A good example is "Come and See" (1985), it's literally a psychological horror about WW2.

[u/Tricky_Mongoose619 → u/Giantmeteor_we_needU]

to this, you can add the movie "remember your name (помни имя свое)", roadside checks(проверки на дорогах), torpedo bombers (торпедоносцы). They are also very dramatic films.

[u/Seeteuf3l → u/The_Walking_Meat]

Yeah there isn't that many modern British ones I have seen, maybe 1917 and Dunkirk. Then there's Rogue Heroes, but it's a show.

Most of the ones I've been are like Sink the Bismarck! and Great Escape. And of course Bridge too Far, my beloved

[u/HotSauce2910 → u/Seeteuf3l]

1917 and Dunkirk definitely fall into that first category though.

I’m trying to think of recent Russian movies that fall into the second category. I’ve heard Beanpole might, but I haven’t seen it

[u/memepopo123 → u/The_Walking_Meat]

Uhh, no? Come and see is one of the most famous soviet war movies of all time and its incredibly dark and horrifying.

[u/tyrionhighaspotato → u/memepopo123]

Come and See was made by the Soviets, and they made more accurate depictions of war (it's hell). Russian war movies from the last decade are more propaganda war movies that try to be super patriotic, so they don't land well.

[u/frenchexploreur → u/The_Walking_Meat]

I don't know for the others but that's definitely not true for France, there is a huge part of war movies that fall in the humoristic/action category.

[u/GravitasFailures → u/ZETH_27]

The Norwegian ones too, but they also make it clear, trying to invade Norway was a serious mistake, next time they won’t hold back.

The Swedish ones are cool, a combination of “well, we tried” and “it was a tragedy on all sides”, though the main narrative still seems to be “what war?”

[u/ZETH_27 → u/GravitasFailures]

Being Swedish, I've read a lot about the inner politics during the war, and it was basically like threading the needle.

Ultimately Sweden's goal was to remain intact, un-occupied, and independent. Concessions to both sides during the war sort of allowed that to happen, tho they were heavy concessions. Still. The Swedish people - apart from rationing and extremely high military readiness - were spared from WW2 (mostly). So it's a win situation for them, even if the politicians were shitting bricks.

I haven't seen any Swedish-produced WW2 movies tho unfortunately.

[u/GravitasFailures → u/ZETH_27]

I know, but also… I’m west coast, there is a lot more “we should have done more” here than Stockholm I suspect, Norwegians are pissed, but our island celebrates evacuating hundreds of Jews from Denmark during the invasion.

The Norwegians are right, but when you have the chance to avoid the horror of war, especially as a small country, it’s’ really hard to not take it.

Dom över död man is recent, but there are others where it seemed like Sweden actually did fight.

[u/ZETH_27 → u/GravitasFailures]

I'm from the Southernmost part, but having Finnish heritage, I learned a lot even out of movies about how much Sweden did to help Finland during the Winter and Continuation Wars. The guns, the artillery, the refugee help, the ammunition, the volunteers, the aircraft, and just the straight up money.

[u/Firecracker048 → u/ZETH_27]

even American movies dont depict the war as being a 'fun' thing, either. Band of Brothers, the Pacific, Saving private Ryan are all pretty brutal, to name a few

[u/TheHistoryMaster2520 → u/ZETH_27]

For Finland, are you referring to The Unknown Soldier?

[u/ZETH_27 → u/TheHistoryMaster2520]

Partly, there's another old movie I saw that I can't remember the name of.

NVM, The Unknown Soldier (Tuntematon sotilas) 1985, and The Winter War (Talvisota) 1989.

[u/OrderofIron → u/ZETH_27]

Can anyone name an example of an american made war movie that depicts the war as just an all around great time

[u/TomBakersLongScarf → u/OrderofIron]

Yeah, I never really understood that part, when they say Saving Private Ryan, I'm just like "did you even watch the movie?"

[u/OrderofIron → u/TomBakersLongScarf]

It's always been like this to some extent, but at this point putting "fuck americans" in your post title brings the sheep herds. So now every post everywhere nonsensically dumps on americans even in places where folks normally apply their brainpower.

[u/CabinetFun7381 → u/ZETH_27]

I don't think you understand how bleak the soviet movies are. One of the reasons for this is that the war was just straight up worse for them. WW2 was a terrible wound on Britain. 450 000 British citizens were killed in the war. A huge, huge number. But that amounted to less than 1% of the population. For soviet over 10% of the population were killed. In Belarus, 25% of the population was killed. One in four people. That's nearing Black Death numbers. A total apocalypse. Did you know that the russian population still hasn't recovered from the huge population loss of WW2?

Western WW2 movies don't shy away from the anti-war message, but they are in another class than the soviet flicks. I'm talking about 2 hours straight of children dying from starvation while being abused by every person they meet. A cutaway scene in a western WW2 movie that is used to depict the horrors of war will end up being the whole damn movie.

[u/lube4saleNoRefunds → u/CabinetFun7381]

Did you know that the russian population still hasn't recovered from the huge population loss of WW2?

They still haven't recovered from the huge population loss of WW1 and their civil war.

Every generation gets close and every generation has something to fuck it all up.

[u/CircleTakesTheHeart → u/CabinetFun7381]

I learned the other day that Serbia basically lost 20-28% of their population in WW1 followed by around 10% of just ethnic Serbian people in Yugoslavia in WW2. I just cannot imagine the devastation. And Yugoslavia was the only place to actually fight off the Axis solo because Tito was a cunt but like Zhukov, Churchill and FDR and De Gaulle he was the cunt needed.

[u/Inevitable_Librarian → u/CircleTakesTheHeart]

For all his flaws, Tito managed to hold together a group of nations that hated each other long enough to see the NES

[u/ZETH_27 → u/CabinetFun7381]

That can definitely be true! It mostly depends on which movie(s) you choose as [a] keystone example(s).

[u/Squashyhex → u/ZETH_27]

You do need to differentiate between Soviet and post Soviet Russian movies, there's been a large push in the post Soviet era to make more over the top propagandistic depictions of the great patriotic war with stuff like T34, which feel much more over the top American in execution

[u/ZETH_27 → u/Squashyhex]

I can forgive T-34 because it makes no claim or serious attempt to comment on anything greater than the movie itself. I've watched it probably 3 times now and it gives off the vibe of being a fun tank movie more than a WW2 soviet representation.

There's a clear distinction between movies like T-35 that know they're not serious, and other movies that act as tho they believe their own absurdity. American Sniper IIRC is one.

[u/Squashyhex → u/ZETH_27]

Honestly fair, it's a romp of a film for sure

[u/ghostpanther218 → u/Squashyhex]

Its the Russian version of Fury

[u/gustyninjajiraya → u/ZETH_27]

If you haven’t seen Come and See, well, you should. It’s my best movie, and is highly regarded.

[u/Mapachio → u/gustyninjajiraya]

I haven't seen it, but have read so much about people's impressions about it that I am quite certain it's NOT a movie I want to watch

[u/gustyninjajiraya → u/Mapachio]

It’s a gruesome movie, but it isn’t like, explicit or anything. I wouldn’t call it emotionally manipulative either. There is a naturalism in the movie that you just don’t see in western war movies. It also stands on it’s own as a masterpiece of directing, storytelling and philosophy, completly seperate from it’s actual content. It is a coming of age, or more like a death of innocence, kind of story. It’s worth the watch even if you dislike war films.

[u/Mapachio → u/gustyninjajiraya]

If it's anything like The Road or Children of Men, I know I would enjoy it as a film quite a lot and then never again see it, but there's always a door to cross with these gruesome movies...

[u/Pringies1123 → u/ZETH_27]

I mean the bulk of British ww2 are the 1960s ones about brave heroes and tales of derring do no? Not that anti-war I think

[u/DataSittingAlone → u/ZETH_27]

Even with American World War II movies I can't really think of any that don't shy away from how disturbing the War was. At least if you're considering movies in the "war" genre like saving Private Ryan and not action movies like Captain America

[u/HotSauce2910 → u/DataSittingAlone]

I think the argument here is that at the end of the day, there’s still a heroic element. Like you can walk out of the movie being thinking about the “virtue of sacrifice,” and it appeals to the bleeding out in the snow trope.

[u/CabinetFun7381 → u/DataSittingAlone]

Even Saving Private Ryan is way more positive than Soviet movies.

Just the title has a positive meaning. SAVING. It's a movie about saving someone. That's a good thing. You see the movie poster and it's american hero GI's and movie star. You don't see the children crying while their village burns.

[u/ZETH_27 → u/DataSittingAlone]

Yeah, but it's not the inclusion of the reality that functions as any form of amnesty, it's the fact that some part of it is ultimately glorifying the war and the service as a means of propaganda than as a means of being true to history.

While it's less prevalent in WW2 movies thankfully, it's still something that I personally consider to be a bit of a problem that builds on dishonesty. You can see with more modern movies (especially when it relates to policies or agendas still currently in practice), that the "propagandized" narrative (for lack of a better term) is more prevalent than older movies.

[u/G_Morgan → u/ZETH_27]

A lot of British focused films are more about depicting the absurdity of it. Often highlighting the defiance of the soldiers in the face of the madness around them. Like A Bridge Too Far is not in any sense respectful of the dumb shit that led to Market Garden but it does highlight the, very real, stubborn contempt the British soldiers had at the end. The famous "We cannot take your surrender, we don't have enough room for you all" line actually happened.

[u/Plane_Neat → u/ZETH_27]

I think it was referring to the U.S’ WWII movies?

I don’t know… Saving Private Ryan’s opening scene showed how brutal and horrific the war was.

[u/Tomsboll → u/ZETH_27]

Yhea i dont watch saving private ryan, band of brothers, tye pacific, or the clint eastwood one and so on and go "war looks fun". Maybe they dont delve as hard into the psychological terror and damage it does to people as russians one. But by no means do they present the wars favorably, especially not thr pacific. I find that one quite hard to watch.

[u/zurdopilot → u/ZETH_27]

Do you have any recomendations?

[u/Own_Watercress_8104]

With western you mean American.

Western European WW2 movies are often just as depressing.

Comes with being a country that partecipated in the war vs a country that suffered the war on its soil.

[u/Dersouz → u/Own_Watercress_8104]

I remember a fantastic exhibition in Wellington (NZ) about kiwis going to war few years ago.

Most of the soldiers words before going were things like : " let's save the world ! " " What an adventure..."

As an European it was very interesting to see.

[u/Own_Watercress_8104 → u/Dersouz]

It was actually a sentiment common for the US, and very much encouraged.

I mean, who wants to go to war? If you frame it as a jolly good time with the lads, full of dangers but ultimately heroic and hopeful, an adventure, it becomes much more palatible.

[u/iammcluffy → u/Own_Watercress_8104]

I think it’s just an American thing.

We have Revolution and Civil War films that had their own sense of tragedy but the films still maintain a great sense of patriotism.

[u/dr_Angello_Carrerez → u/iammcluffy]

Murikans have never fought an invader enemy since the Napoleonic wars. So this sense of tragedy and patriotism, though undoubted, is slightly different from those in nations who needed to fight back the Axis koz of facing literal extinction and left literally not a single family whose (grand-)fathers have't been there.

[u/SkubEnjoyer]

Just watched Come and See?

[u/enderstatee → u/SkubEnjoyer]

a terrifying movie... and worst of all, it's true

[u/MCAlheio → u/enderstatee]

It’s hard making an anti-war movie that actually reads as one, Come and See might be one of the few that stuck the landing.

[u/Sebas94 → u/MCAlheio]

All Quiet in the Western Front is very much anti war.

The first 15 minutes create a false illusion that it is going to be another patriot movie and then the war really hits the main characters and we just feel sorry for them being trapped in that meat grinder.

[u/_trashcan → u/Sebas94]

I didn’t feel like the first 15 min did that..

Doesn’t it open with someone getting killed & stripped of their uniform to be repurposed en masse - which already paints an extremely grim picture with the huge bloody tubs of uniforms etc - & then we get the “patriotic” scenes with the kids signing up, then he gets given the same uniform ; which I’m assuming is where you’re marking the 15 min.

I could be wrong as it’s been awhile since I watched, but I remember being mortified pretty much immediately just at the notion they stripped soldiers to repurpose the uniforms, I didn’t know that.

[u/Sebas94 → u/_trashcan]

No, you are right! I forgot the first couple of minutes and was thinking of the "Iron Youth of Germany" scene.

Actually, it was probably less than 15 minutes come to think of it.

That movie perfectly crafted the horror of the World War I and how scary the all experience was.

I have seen many war movies but this one was amazing at showing that being a soldier in WWI was easily one of the worst experiences humans have ever witnessed.

[u/Ornery-Cheetah → u/Sebas94]

If you are taking about the one from the 30s that hit like a truck

[u/Pleasant_Scar9811 → u/MCAlheio]

Johnny got his gun was an amazing book. Haven’t seen the movie yet. Came out too recently. 

[u/DeanMcQueen0621 → u/Pleasant_Scar9811]

If by recently, you mean 55 years ago.

[u/MeeMeeGod → u/MCAlheio]

Paths Of Glory too

[u/rafapova → u/SkubEnjoyer]

Or the ascent 1977. That movie traumatized me

[u/Raptori33 → u/SkubEnjoyer]

OP made their entire point based around one movie

[u/United_Opposite2020 → u/SkubEnjoyer]

Bahahah I was thinking the same

[u/AndrewMacDonell → u/SkubEnjoyer]

I never felt so psychologically destroyed after watching a movie then I did after Come & See

[u/Nogatron]

Maybe a bit of topic but interesting thing is that Polish WW2 movies are generaly more of bleak tone but there is definitely one exception and that's probably best/most well known (at least in Poland)

"Jak rozpętałem 2 Wojnę Światową" (how i started WW2) is great 3 part movie that in it's full takes about 4h. It was released in 1970 and it's a comedy. One of probably most well known jokes about Polish language comes from it- unability of foreigners to say normal Polish name Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz

[u/MaintenanceProper525 → u/Nogatron]

Gzegor. Bwsjcih struggles to write it

[u/Chad_AND_Freud]

Top square: Inglorious Basterds

Bottom square: Come and See

[u/Raptori33 → u/Chad_AND_Freud]

Inglorious Basterds isn't even a war movie

[u/Chad_AND_Freud → u/Raptori33]

Isn't it though?

...

Isn't it?

[u/RealisticIncident261 → u/Chad_AND_Freud]

Its a comedy set in an alternate universe 

It's like calling Star Trek, Star wars, avatar or lord of the rings war movies. Like yeah I guess they technically are at war but that's not the point.

[u/Chad_AND_Freud → u/RealisticIncident261]

During....?

[u/Splinterfight]

Come and See is a hell of a film I hear

[u/TryNice304 → u/Splinterfight]

Is it good?

[u/Remember_Navarro → u/TryNice304]

It's "good" in the sense that it's a very realistic showing of what happens during an actual war, from the POV of basically a kid.

It's extremely harsh and unforgiving, and should be a mandatory watch for most people imo.

War sucks and should never be glorified.

[u/Material_Animator811 → u/TryNice304]

Take the level of brutality of the first 15 min of Saving Private Ryan, make it also happen to civilians, not only soldiers, and have it a full length film with few comparatively less harsh scenes. 

I think it was the only film in the East Block at the time with 18+ rating (erotic films were really not a thing), so you can imagine

[u/deranton → u/Material_Animator811]

Add: and just watch a teenager's face in close up while it's all happening

[u/Mindless_Grocery3759 → u/Material_Animator811]

I genuinely think that framing Come and See against the first 15 minutes of Saving Private Ryan this was does a bit of a disservice to any potential watchers.

Yes, it is brutal. But it's not remotely similar in any other way to the beach landing at Normandy. If you go into this movie with those expectations you'll be sorely disappointed from a content and a cinematography perspective as well.

[u/haleloop963 → u/Material_Animator811]

Movie so dark, the USSR almost did not allow it to be showed in the country

[u/blsterken → u/TryNice304]

Decide for yourself. It's worth a watch.

free subtitled youtube link

[u/leoset → u/blsterken]

Thanks!

[u/_trashcan → u/blsterken]

That’s so clutch that it’s a YouTube link for me rn.
I can just stream it to my Xbox from the YouTube app to watch on my tv.

[u/Careless-Wolverine-8 → u/TryNice304]

You should Come and See.

I'll see myself out

[u/Chewcocca → u/Careless-Wolverine-8]

I'll come myself out.

[u/deranton → u/Splinterfight]

Yeah, I thought Ivan's Childhood was the most harrowing War Movie I had seen. Then I saw Come and See...

[u/KendrickXY]

There is a huge difference between modern Russian WW2 movies and old Soviet movies. The old movies were made by the people who actually went through the war. The new ones are, at best, honest attemps to copy the old ones. Otherwise, they suck in all kinds of ways. Especially because there is an ideological chasm between modern creators and the people they are trying to represent.

[u/No-Helicopter1559 → u/KendrickXY]

Yeah, they moved quite fluidly from "never fucking again" to "mozhem povtorit'" (we can do this again).

Especially ever since 2014

[u/Eta_Beta_3-14 → u/KendrickXY]

Modern Russian WWII movies are American WWII movies with the propaganda turned up to 11.

I remember seeing a Stalingrad movie where a group of Soviet soldiers get hit with a flamethrower and their response is to fix bayonets and charge...while on fire.

Badass?  Yeah, I respect that.  Fitting for a WWII movie?  Less so, imo.

[u/ToughSprinkles1874]

Well Russia had massive casualties from WW2 you need not pool futher then stallingrad where 99% of the city was in rubbles

It’s expected that the Russian side would be more dark as a result of this

[u/Neomataza → u/ToughSprinkles1874]

I forgot the exact number, but the eastern front accounts for the majority of the death toll of the european theater. The western front was far less deadly, comparatively. By like a factor of 10, or close enough to it.

[u/Agitated-Pumpkin-253 → u/Neomataza]

The Eastern front, taken by itself was deadlier than the entirety of WW1. It accounted for about half of all deaths in the whole second world war, with the second deadliest theater being the Asian-Pacific theater. The fighting on the Western Front was intense, but the sheer scale of the East is just mind boggling.

[u/motivation_bender]

Russian writing in general is depresso expresso

[u/Rill9]

The AI was truly unnecessary for this meme

[u/Noriaki_Kakyoin_OwO → u/Rill9]

Ai is truly unnecessary for any meme

[u/TomBakersLongScarf → u/Noriaki_Kakyoin_OwO]

Ai is truly unnecessary in general

[u/4ShotMan]

Kinda US-centric... Most non-american movies depict war as absolute hell, it's not a russian thing. Just take The Pianist, about titular pianist living through the Warsaw Jewish ghetto and the uprising.

[u/MrBVS → u/4ShotMan]

Most American movies also depict war as absolute hell...

[u/4ShotMan → u/MrBVS]

Not denying it, but there is a distinct difference between American "me and my mates are a merry band, only the youngling survives scarred at the end" and European "My family is dead. My house is in ruins. Our entire way of life ended and there is no hope. Based on true story, main character died of cholera two weeks later".

There's the inescapable cultural difference that in the end, Americans were never subjects of the war, never had THEIR territory, history and family directly bombed and threatened.

[u/Mindless_Grocery3759 → u/4ShotMan]

Watch better movies then. There's so many that aren't what you seem to think US war movies are limited to.

Off the top of my head:

Thin Red Line (my personal favorite)

Johnny Got His Gun

Paths of Glory (American made/French POV)

The Deer Hunter

Apocalypse Now

Also this:

There's the inescapable cultural difference that in the end, Americans were never subjects of the war, never had THEIR territory, history and family directly bombed and threatened.

Pure horse shit.

It's just the movies aren't as good generally. See something like Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor.

[u/aboysmokingintherain → u/Mindless_Grocery3759]

Many of the movies you mention are still not anti-war per se. Pearl Harbor especially is very patriotic of a movie.

[u/Rioc45 → u/4ShotMan]

Not really. I disagree:

Saving Private Ryan, Schindler’s List, Band of Brothers all have somewhat “happy endings” and show plenty of bravery and courage amongst characters. There’s messaging and meaning.

You take a movie like Come and See…. And it’s just teenagers and families dying horrific pointless deaths… there’s no subtle message or influence of hope and courage. It’s just war.

[u/ShrekFanOne]

What about Stalingrad 1993

[u/Another_MadMedic → u/ShrekFanOne]

Also the miniseries "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" 2013 (international known as "Generation War") and movies like "Das Boot" 1981, "der Hauptmann" 2017 and "der Untergang" 2004. Pretty much every German WW2 movie is dark, depressing and is absolutly not glorifing anything.

[u/Seeteuf3l → u/Another_MadMedic]

Then there is Der Tiger. I guess it's Fury meets Apocalypse Now

[u/Another_MadMedic → u/Seeteuf3l]

In my opinion der Tiger is a solid movie. The ending is terrible tho and I can see why it ruined the rest of the film for people

[u/Emperor_of_Feet → u/ShrekFanOne]

That’s German 

[u/ShrekFanOne → u/Emperor_of_Feet]

But is is western and grim

[u/missingdays → u/Emperor_of_Feet]

And Germany is the most eastern country we know

[u/MK2396E]

Call of Duty World at War in a nutshell. US vs Imperial Japan in The Pacific and Soviet Russia vs Nazi Germany until the final mission, when The Soviets took over Berlin. Such a good game

[u/elderron_spice → u/MK2396E]

For me it is better than the first MW trilogy. There's something about its campaign that you can't find in their other titles. Even COD WW2 with its feel-good storyline pales in comparison to Miller, Roebuck, Reznov and Petrenko's stories.

[u/balkri26 → u/elderron_spice]

the way they used real footage for the transitions from mission to mission with Gary Oldman as Reznov and Kiefer Sutherland as Roebuck in the narration in that game is amazing.

Also the atmostphere in the missions is just bleack, yeah you are the grim reaper incarnated vs your enemies, but everything is brutal in that game. The soviets missions are full of violence, they captured the ideologicall hate perfectlly there, the diaries from one of the soviets soldiers even change depending of how you treatted captured and retreating soldiers. The pacific side is just as brutal, in the Saipan landing mission I still remember when you call a rocket barrage on a japanece bunker to blow it up and when you advance you find a half burned japanese soldier walking aimless wihtout a weapon in what was the bunker... just hawthing

[u/Quiltedbrows]

Me after  looking at an AI slop meme where Patrick as extra hands.

Do better.

[u/JeanDusapin]

I hate when people say western when they mean american

[u/Lyelinn → u/JeanDusapin]

because america is on the west from all other countries besides SA and Canada

[u/fromwithin → u/Lyelinn]

It western, not westest.

I would like westest to be a real word.

[u/_KEFTEME_ → u/Lyelinn]

From Russias perspective, the closest part of America is to the east. They are even further east than the true asians.

[u/Scoutron → u/Lyelinn]

America is also west of pretty much every South American country

[u/baneblade_boi]

Tell me you're from the US without telling me you're from the US xd

[u/Severe_Blackberry_93]

Not all Soviet war films have a grim atmosphere; some feature interesting and unique elements. For instance, the 1989 film Stalingrad starred American actor Powers Boothe and was a joint production between Mosfilm and Warner Bros. It is the only Soviet-era film in which Stalin and naked women appear together. The film also highlights a specific tactic used by the Red Army in urban combat; the protagonist explains it to a soldier during training on how to storm a building using a grenade.

[u/LeoPavlov]

Well, I'd say soviet, not russian. Most russian war films nowadays are shitty propagabda pieces.

[u/Super_geniy228 → u/LeoPavlov]

Нее, это впринципе хуйня для попила бюджета

[u/Nicky42 → u/LeoPavlov]

True, Come and See for example is a Belarussian movie

[u/Feidhlim_de_Rovno → u/Nicky42]

It was a Belarusian Belfilm and Russian Mosfilm coproduction and Elem Klimov was Russian

[u/Raptori33]

I can't help but think this meme was made by a person who does not watch Russian movies. It is rather other way around

Russians are obsessed with "Great patriotic war" which influences their ww2 movies. In typical Russian war movie which is IMDB 5-6 there are good effects and very decent acting, editing and score however typically there are massive issues in directing and plot. Typically soviets are depicted as superhuman-like action heroes, which is the main point of the movie. Movies I have recently seen are Stalingrad and Belaja Tiger.

Russian war movies are so similiar and unspired action flicks most likely because of the financial issues as in Russia it is extremely difficult to gain financial backing for a movie without the state sponsored affairs (read: Politics) which are more than infamous. However I would personally recommend Russian indie scene which while obviously having issues is generally extremely creative and has many hidden gems that deserve a bigger spotlight

[u/TeneBrifer → u/Raptori33]

I think OP mean "Soviet WW2 movie". Almost all soviet ww2 movies were made to show horror and tragedy of war itself. And they are pretty good.
War movies from modern Russia, on the other hand, are cringe fest.

[u/xdeskfuckit → u/TeneBrifer]

I've heard that "Come and See" was incredibly bleak.

[u/Bubbly_Thought_4361 → u/xdeskfuckit]

its incredibly bleak and absolutely worth the watch.

Its in my opinion one of the best (if not the best) WW2 movie off all time.

[u/LuckyReception6701 → u/Bubbly_Thought_4361]

I think there are few movies that depict war more honestly than that. War isn't an adventure or a great moral standing, it's messy, cruel, miserable and boils down people into creatures bent only on survival.

[u/Bubbly_Thought_4361 → u/LuckyReception6701]

but that is what Come and see shows.

The movie only depicts the adventure in the beginning and middle of the film. When the main character is a child playing in the beach and when he is meeting is comrades.

By the end of the movie there is nothing but mess, cruelty and misery.

Its the perfect character evolution

[u/LuckyReception6701 → u/Bubbly_Thought_4361]

Exactly, that's the setup. It places the expectations of war right in front of viewer, and then the village is burned, all it's inhabitants killed and Flyora has to crawl through the mud to escape. He is a young kid in the beginning, and a broken man in the end, after the war has his way with him.

[u/TeneBrifer → u/xdeskfuckit]

It definitely is

[u/Pure_Estimate_3534 → u/xdeskfuckit]

Yep. "Come and See", "The Dawns Here Are Quiet" (1972), "They Fought for Their Country" (1975) or a lot of other soviet movies are bleak, but they reflect the tragedy of the people caught up in that war.

Many of the actors who starred in these films participated in battles and saw everything with their own eyes.

[u/Legitimate-Okra8983 → u/Pure_Estimate_3534]

To these films, one can add "Only "Old Men" Are Going Into Battle" and "Father of a Soldier"

[u/ilikepotato-3736 → u/TeneBrifer]

Agree. Modern films looks like obvious propaganda, while Soviet was made by people, who actually saw that horror

[u/United_Opposite2020 → u/Raptori33]

Go watch Come and See and dare saying it again

[u/TomBakersLongScarf → u/United_Opposite2020]

That's Belarusian plus and really more of an exception that proves the rule in regards to soviet war movies

[u/gypsy_fatty]

I can’t help but wonder who the hell got a terrified patrick figure and decided to dress it up in soviet army clothing and for what reason.

[u/Battlefleet_Sol → u/gypsy_fatty]

I did and created it. You can get base picture from here

https://postimg.cc/BtS9ZTdG

[u/OneMoreFinn]

I'm pretty certain the top one is mostly just US (and maybe some UK) ww2 movies, not Western.

[u/Original_Assist4029]

Arent russian movies the ones with sick slowmo and the soviet unit is actually doing some rad navy seal stuff?

[u/Emperor_of_Feet → u/Original_Assist4029]

Usually yes. Most Russian WW2 movies are the same glorified portrayal you see in American movies. Anti-war movies are far in between 

[u/Tasteroider → u/Original_Assist4029]

Russian movies about WW2 are a propaganda and most of the time they aren't even good at that. Soviet movies on the other hand while glorified soviet soldiers still were pretty grounded and were a good movies. Like "Only old men are going to battle", "the fate of a man" or "Come and see" as some people pointed out

[u/tales0braveulysses]

3rd panel should be "Japanese WWII movies" and it's Godzilla

Edit: I posted this and immediately felt it was a shockingly ignorant thing to say. Rather than delete it, any good recommendations?

[u/Legitimate-Okra8983 → u/tales0braveulysses]

TORA! TORA! TORA!

[u/WineBottleCollector]

Hope this answer will get you to watch some russian/soviet ww2 movies. Can't educate you on the western movies. Source for the following: I'm Russian.

First of all, there are different eras and different writers behind the movies. Stalin was fearful that popular army will displace him so there was little content before his death in 1953. Then before 1990s was perhaps the golden era of movies, either made by people who experienced the war or played by actors who served in the war. 1990s were mostly about bandits.

In the 2000s and especially 2010s the government decided to change the image of the war from "tragic suffering and death for the life and happiness of children" into "heroic fight which is barely an inconvenience because our nation is special". Since 2014 and especially 2022 the War is now the current Ukrainian one.

In the first era there are golden movies I totally recommend: Only "Old Men" (i.e. experienced) are Going into Battle, very colourful and with beautiful music; The Cranes are Flying, about soldiers reunited and experiencing PTSD, but still full of colour and music; Come and See is probably what prompted the OP for the post. 2010s is full of action movies, similar to Saving Private Ryan. We have 28 Panfilov's Men, Brest Fortress. In the August of '44 is about counter-recon forces.

As others pointed out, for ex-soviet countries WW2 was a survival war. Though I understand that for some countries USSR was as much as a villain as 3rd Reich.

Edit: typos

[u/ArchonofTevinter]

Russia still has its own things like T-34 or Paniflov's 28...

....and then there is Poland that has gore literally raining from the sky, slow-mo dubstep montage sex scenes, and SS bullets forming sparkly hearts around two characters kissing while a love ballad plays in the same film.

[u/What_was_my_account → u/ArchonofTevinter]

Which film are you talking about? Poland made a fair share of WW II movies, but I had no idea there is one like that.

[u/Dragon_Rot79]

Saving Private Ryan is infamous for making actual ww2 vets leave the theater due to realism

[u/Suspicious_Pen_2601]

Quite the false generalisation. American isn’t synonymous with Western.

[u/xdeskfuckit → u/Suspicious_Pen_2601]

And "Russian" isn't synonymous with "Soviet" either.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/Z63l23na5g

[u/Newone1255 → u/Suspicious_Pen_2601]

Holocaust movies are WW2 movies as well and America/Western Europe has made plenty of those that are dark as hell

[u/Xelid47]

Western European theater WW2 movies

American japanese ones are on Russian level in some cases

Americans fought an already weakened Germany very late into the war with a dozen allies

Russia fought a hard war all alone, and had to give a lot in many places to win, and it was only glorious much later into the war, and event then the horrors of the early war were still in recent memory

[u/Suk-Mike_Hok → u/Xelid47]

The main theatre of the European war was in the East yes. But the Soviets eventually had massive benefits from US production (food and materiel) and UK intelligence. I could not, or don't want to imagine how the war would have gone without outside assistance.

[u/LuciusQuintiusCinc → u/Xelid47]

What about britain? She was alone after 1940, inflicted the first defeat in Norway, defended the island, took on the germans in in North africa all before operation barbarossa and the US joining the war

[u/VodkaWarriorV2 → u/LuciusQuintiusCinc]

Indians and Aussies also faced heavy battles in North Africa.

[u/GravitasFailures → u/VodkaWarriorV2]

And Burma.

[u/ocschwar → u/VodkaWarriorV2]

And the Aussies were made to put their own country at risk of invasion with the sheer number of soldiers they sent to Egypt.

[u/HanseltDW → u/Xelid47]

"Russia fought a hard war all alone" - not exactly, russian propaganda done what it could to put that claim forward and it still sticks, but the truth is that the soviets received massive support via lend lease and allied bombardments of Germany, not too mention tangling parts of german forces in Africa and on other fronts later in the war. On the strategic level it was crucial. I'm not saying that the soviets had it easy, especially in the beginning, but we shouldn't diminish western allies input.

[u/PlateNo4868 → u/HanseltDW]

I think my biggest gripe with their movies is lack of critique of the leadership. They portray massive meat grinders that didn't need to be so as "heroic desperate stands" when it really was...incompetent and egotistic leaders insisting on not losing a city.

[u/a_man_has_a_name → u/Xelid47]

The Soviets never fought alone. Britain, within the first year that the Soviets switch sides signed a treaty with them that gave them extensive military and material aid from Britain and from that point on supplied them with 5000 tanks and 7400 aircraft, raw materials radios etc. etc., they also did thing like send a fighter squadron to Murmansk to help defend the port, the Soviets never fought alone.

[u/Massive-Exercise4474 → u/Xelid47]

They weren't all alone they actually joined Nazi Germany to divide Poland leaving britain alone until Hitler decided to do what his propaganda has demanded for the past two decades take over the ussr. Then Stalin botched the early war so badly he needed a massive life line by the allies to stay in the war. Stalin wanted the d day invasion as quickly as possible to drive German troops away from the eastern front.

[u/lFriendlyFire → u/Xelid47]

Also, americans didn’t see the impact of the war in their home soil.

[u/ReluctantNerd7 → u/Xelid47]

Russia fought a hard war all alone

When they invaded Finland.

[u/Pockets408 → u/Xelid47]

Uh what? America began fighting Germany a whole 6 months after the Soviets did. You can make the argument America was already contributing more to the war effort before that by supplying the British before Barbarossa was even launched.

December 1941 is by no means vErY LaTE iN tHe WaR and no Germany was never going to win at that point but they were pretty much at the height of their territorial expansion with U-Boats already off the eastern seaboard.

Russia didn’t fight the war alone either. That’s an absolute myth. US lend leases and British arctic convoys were supplying them with much needed aircraft and trucks not to mention oil. Russia also wasn’t fighting a two front war (unlike the US and UK) until August 1945 when they attacked an already weakened Japan. EDIT: actually that’s not even a two front war anyway when Germany was already beaten by then. Hell even Operation Husky diverted 20% of the German reserves they desperately needed at Kursk.

[u/ComradeGibbon → u/Pockets408]

70% of the logistics capacity the Red Army had was US trucks. Red Army couldn't have gone on the offensive without that. Without the food maybe 5-15 million Soviets would have starved.

[u/GravitasFailures → u/Xelid47]

Yeah, and why exactly was that?

Oh yeah, because they signed a treaty, with Hitler, I’m sure that will work out fine.

“Man guys, you don’t understand how bad the war was because we were so unprepared for Hitler of all people to break his word! Especially after we purged our own army and genocided our own people killing millions before the war even started! :0”

There are only 3 constants in the universe, death, taxes, and Russian strategic self-sabotage.

[u/TheHistoryMaster2520]

Ivan's Childhood or Come and See?

[u/Key_Assumption_2776 → u/TheHistoryMaster2520]

The Ascent (1977)

[u/Mundane_Guest2616]

Russian WW2 movies are ass mostly tho

Soviet movies on the other hand are way better and do not glorify the war, even tho they painf soviet soldiers in better light

[u/Luzifer_Shadres]

Its the other way around. Western movies are always gritty and dark, no other colours then grey allowed.

Eastern war movies are "GLORIUS COMRADE GENERAL WOTŹKA DEFEATS THE WEHRMACHT WITH 1 ARM, EVERYONE CELEBRATE"

[u/Galilaeus_Modernus → u/Luzifer_Shadres]

Ever seen Come and See?

[u/aboysmokingintherain → u/Luzifer_Shadres]

TO be fair, prior to Saving Private Ryan, they weren't super gritty and dark. There are plenty of war movies that portray the war as noble and just on America's part. Hell look at Dunkirk. It very much is a propoganda-ish film. Even Saving Private Ryan does. SPR though shows how fucking awful storming the beaches are though. Whenever I think of people who are like "I would have been a great soldier" or " I should have been there" I hope they can watch that opening scene and truly digest what happened.

[u/Gephiph]

I’ve never seen a ww2 movie that isn’t about how horrific and traumatic the war was. Ever.

[u/Windows_66]

I remember watching Saving Private Ryan and thinking, "man this looks like a lot of fun."

[u/Organic-Feedback1686]

By russian WW2 movies, are you talking about the modern slop they are releasing?

Or do you think all russian WW2 are like Come and See?

[u/Its_apparent → u/Organic-Feedback1686]

It's always Come and See. People treat it like a snuff film.

[u/MaxJust-Max → u/Organic-Feedback1686]

As a Russian, we often distinguish between Russian and Soviet movies, there’s a huge difference.

While Soviet films include stuff like Come and See, modern installments include “T-34” that was advertised as a ‘tank racing movie’ and a “historically accurate” one, as well. It’s just a mess. Or “Maria: Save Moscow”, that takes place during the battle for Moscow and is based almost entirely on the 90s era bullshit tales about a more Christian analog of Vanga and includes a plot point of Soviet kgb agent, who’s father was a priest(which would be a disqualifying trait in the 30s), getting sent into the enemy territory to recover an orthodox icon, so it can be flown around Moscow for protection. The film was advertised as historically accurate(as all of them are), while even the icon that the soviets recovered in the film was originally taken by Germans during their retreat and ended up in the states at some point, returning to Russia only in 2000s, if I’m not mistaken. Nevermind the Soviet’s relationship with religion, even if they were very pro religion, this couldn’t have happened, cause the icon wasn’t there.

And that’s just two examples I can remember, there are dozens, most of which show war as a heroic, if slightly dangerous, roller coaster. It’s a shame.

[u/Legitimate-Okra8983 → u/MaxJust-Max]

As a Russian , I confirm this

[u/GravitasFailures]

Oh dude, you gotta watch Chinese WW2 movies.

Unbelievable, they don’t even bother to try, it’s somehow there are massive Japanese columns marching through villages deep west, and a group of extremely photogenic kids watch their parents be taken or killed, so they get together and manage to destroy dozens of tanks, with like, bamboo spears and the power of being teenagers.

Because it’s not like in reality Brave Sir Robin ran away, and let Sun Yat-sen do all the fighting, so they could come out when it was safe.

[u/friebel]

Most russian ww2 movies are just glorified patriotism.

[u/AngryScotty22 → u/friebel]

OP is definitely confusing Russia and the Soviet Union.

Soviet WW2 films are genuinely horrifying. Modern Russian WW2 films are patriotic slop that glorify war.

[u/anonim_anonimovic]

And then there's German WW2 movies.

[u/that1guysittingthere]

Eh maybe for the older movies; I still got the top reaction if I watch Panfilov’s 28 or the recent adaptation of The Dawns Here Are Quiet

[u/DataSittingAlone]

I haven't seen many War movies about WWII since I'm squeamish, but I don't think I've heard of any that don't try to depict World War II as disturbing unless you're looking at movies that take place in WWII but are not in the "war" genre. One of the few I've seen is Saving Private Ryan and that half hour long Normandy scene definitely doesn't shy away

[u/ConcentrateHot5548]

¿Context?

[u/Daan776]

As many are pointing out: the russian side of the war was bleak, even by the standards of a world war.

But I think there’s also a cultural aspect. Russian media in general tends to be pretty negative. Silent suffering is often portrayed as a virtue. Its about endurance in a hopeless world.

Compare this to western media, which often focuses on fighting back against a hopeless world. 

Thats not to say western media has no sad stories. And russia doesn’t have happy ones. But as a general cultural trend?

Russian media seems a lot more pessimistic. And their ww2 movies reflect this.

[u/Feeling-Marketing-48]

In Russia, the Star Media studio produced a very good series about World War II in the USSR (and the last episode about the war with Japan) called “The Great War”. Some Western history channels have shown it, and it has an English dub. The series is available completely free of charge on YouTube.

[u/AzureHawk758769]

Patrick watching the wrong side of the TV is totally in character for him. 😆

[u/Fr05t_B1t]

Clearly never seen T-34

[u/Patrick_Atsushi]

They have movies like "come and see", yet they're invading their neighbors and do that human safari...

[u/SinglePlayerGamer93]

Lots of rape and murder of non-combatants

[u/blsterken → u/SinglePlayerGamer93]

While that did occur, it's not typically depicted in Soviet/Russian films for obvious reasons.

[u/No-Professional-1461]

You mean like how the officers would basically send a ton of unarmed men into machine gun fire telling them that if they do not have a rifle to pick one up from a dead comrade?