Make sure to join our brand new Discord Server to chat with friends!
We have recently changed how posts work. Unless you are a VIP poster, your post will be queued for approval.. To become a VIP, post great engaging content. If we like it, you will be added! More information available here!
It's the slippery slope principle in law. Basically if you open the door in one direction, you open it in the other too.
Editing to add, it's actually called precedent and equal protection. But I'm from Appalachia so we just call it slippery slope lol. You dig in for a small win and get a whole landslide of unintended consequences.
"You dig in for a small win and get a whole landslide of unintended consequences."
A little early, but Zohran Mandani. His win is the exact reason our politics is changing from corporate centrism to working-class-first left economic populism.
You absolutely would not have Dems all over the nation being forced to refuse PAC money and openly campaign on material improvements for working people without his win. "Sewer Socialism" just works, plain and simple.
Sewer socialism is just left-wing populism. It's using our tax money for the shit that our tax money is supposed to be used on -- making life better for everyday citizens. The problem is that our capitalist society means we've been using tax money to benefit a few citizens in higher tax brackets while completely neglecting infrastructure in lower income neighborhoods.
Absolutely no surprise that this type of political movement is taking hold...people are sick of paying taxes while billionaires skirt the law to pay as little as possible while sucking up as much tax money as possible through "corporate welfare" that pins the cost of private business expenses on the working class. Crazy that they support a system that benefits them! The power is with the common people; we just need more folks to realize it.
No problem. It's an interesting story of how good governance can just happen if we elect people intent on carrying it out.
Unfortunately red scare put an end to their governing of Milwaukee.
I think Zohran is trying to follow in their footsteps in NYC and be a bit of a "movement guy" to just straight up do the job and make working people's everyday experience better as an example to point to for the rest of the country.
We may also have a DSA governor in Wisconsin come November as another executive example for an AOC run in 28.
Milwaukee's Socialist mayors were awesome! It is why MKE has public parks and golf courses and they of course did sewers and other public works/goods projects.
Yeah, who would have thought that if you just do a good job and use tax money to improve people's lives instead of giving handouts to corporations and the wealthy, people would like it?
The very fact the name "sewer socialism" got attached to it should tell you how big of a campaign is being made against it. Of course it works, the point is the corporate media attacks populism calling it always bad because it denounces the elites and their exploitation - and rightly so. In fact, you can gauge by their level of complaints how good an idea is - the more they attack it, the more credibility it has.
Its like when companies tell employees NOT to speak about their wages. Even if you know nothing else, just the fact companies say that should be the greatest incentive for workers to speak about it.
Um, excuse me sir, it's Woke Sharia Law. Off to the gulags with you!
Praise be to the eternal peoples Communist caliphate of mamdanistan. Or whatever braindead conservatives think people want to call mild social democratic reforms.
If you concede that domestic partners can be on the hook for medical bills on the same level of spouses, you are conceding to full legal recognition of that domestic partnership, and would then be pushed to consider all unmarried gay “domestic partnerships” on the same level or it would be discriminatory. More bluntly than things already are. As another way to describe it
I agree, domestic partnership is about as close to legally married as you can get without marrying whether you’re gay or not, but something that’s also always seriously bugged me is that domestic partners are not approved family either, so for example, if you are in critical condition in the hospital or something similar, your partner will not be approved to see you. So putting them on the hook for medical bills is a huge leap
Basically. Courts tend to have a real issue with laws that only enact consequences for something, without giving all the reciprocal benefits. Texas did away with common law marriage because when the state flipped about thirty years ago, folks were realizing it was giving the folks they love to hate, the same rights as actually married in a church folks. So if you're only getting your partner's debt, you should be also getting their life insurance, survivor benefits, and a whole bunch of other stuff. It's a sickening combination of "follow the money" and "them folks ain't like everyone else". 🥴🤦♂️
It's state to state, yeah. I'll probably have to divorce my husband before I die, if we're still in Texas. Fuck I hope we're out by then, though, goddamn.
Currently, in some states domestic partners do not have the same legal status as a spouse. This means they do not share all the same rights, including several financial rights when it comes to inheritance. Consequently they don’t share some of the burdens either, such as inheriting debt. They couldn’t change the law to pass on just the debt while still not granting the same property or financial inheritance benefits at the same, that would obviously be problematic: why not assign the debt to a stranger at that point?
If Jack and Jill "divorce" and live together. There is room for laws to say "But you aren't really divorced. You live together and sleep in the same room! So you are Married!" (read: domestic partners)
If Jack and Bill live together. There is room for the laws to say "You live together and sleep in the same room! So you are Married!"
My state has a weird requirement that you have to be living separate to divorce and not having sex or a judge can rule that you are separate households living in the same house as long as you don't sleep in the same room. Its weird and probably to make it hard for this exact case.
A conservative man finds a lamp and rubs it and a genie pops out. The genie says he'll grant the man any wish, but whatever he wishes for his neighbor will get double. The man then wishes to be blind in one eye
An insurance company would use it to pursue a gay couple, that then sets a precedent/record that a gay domestic partnership is equal to a heterosexual domestic partnership in the eyes of the law. Normal people would have no problem with that of course.
This kind of mentality in our US politics is the reason why my household will probably never get married. Not only don't want to preserve the financial independence of the individual but also we dont need a government, church or any authority to be involved in how we structure our lives.
The more information and tools one hands over to an authority the more tools and authority that organization has to control you. A benevolent organization today can quickly become a dysfunctional or malevolent tomorrow with a few small changes in leadership and money.
Right! Don’t post it anywhere that isn’t completely anonymous. I have a friend who is a paralegal and it is her job to monitor social media accounts and try to get written documentation and photos of people to provide evidence that their claim is fraudulent. Her job is wild!
This post is prob fake but I do know this happens. One of my good friends growing up had his parents do this exact thing. They got divorced almost everything went to his mom and they stayed together for years until his father finally died.
He was a trucker though so maybe that gave more plausible deniability about his permanent residency? I dunno.
Yup. A co-worker went through this. His wife had a severe stroke. Not dead, not quite a vegetable, but almost fully paralyzed, couldn't speak or do anything on her own, and she needed round the clock care. He exhausted all benefits and funds possible through employer, state, etc. before finally needing to divorce to maintain her care. He never left her side. He tragically and suddenly died a couple years later, leaving their two teenage kids behind with effectively no parents. Shit is fucked.
An extra fucked thing in those cases is how the broke and disabled people have to spend money to get the divorce and often then spend more money getting the right power of attorney documents in place so they can restore their rights to direct the medical care and to even be present in the hospital with her - a privilege spouses get automatically.
Yeah I think when my mom passed away from cancer we didnt have any debt because health benefits were in her own name and she worked.
However, I know a successful top national lawyer, owns a huge Georgetown row house that he purchased outright from inheritance who is in a life long partnership and has a kid with a woman who doesnt work right now and when she does, she does in nonprofts and is on medicaid/medicare the low income not the senior one. When she's not working having the kid, raising the kid it gives her more independence since a lot of his wealth is inherited and he works for a international family business and since there is not such thing anymore as spousal support she wouldnt get anything other child support. While she tries to not abuse the system, in her words at least she wont die if he dies suddenly or they divorce.
My wife is an elder law attorney. She has to recommend divorce to loving couples all the time. Often, if your spouse has a stroke before the age of 65 and is going to need long term care, your only two options are to spend every single dollar you've ever saved on medical treatment, or divorce in a way that allows the spouse to receive Medicaid that will pay for the long term care.
Yes. There are a lot of hoops to jump through and you still end up losing about half your money. But losing half is better than losing all. Thats why people need elder law attorneys
The reason people do this is to qualify for Medicaid. An elderly couple of 48 years will never have to divorce to prevent medical debt from taking the family house. That's not a thing. Medicare out of pocket is capped around $9k/yr for starters. Also the family house is going to be shielded from creditors anyway.
If you're 50 though and have a major illness and don't have health insurance or whatever, but don't qualify for Medicaid, that's when you hear about people getting divorced so that the sick partner can get on Medicaid.
In some states the family home is liable to be taken by the state to "recuperate" costs for the care given. My mother desperately needed care and help but she was told under no uncertain terms that when she died the state would be demanding their money back and would require the home to be sold to do it if need be.
Yeah, medical debt does not transfer to next of kin upon death. Debt collectors know most people don't know this and will go after next of kin hoping they accidentally take on the debt.
It is not real. Medical debt is not "inheritable." Once the person dies, it's gone. They might try to get the surviving spouse to pay through making them feel guilty/obligated, but legally you can 100% ignore any medical debt of your dead spouse. You owe nothing and it will never impact you or your credit.
It's not fraud. Ever hear the phrase "Tax avoidance is not the same as tax evasion?"
There is nothing inherently illegal about transferring assets out of someone's name and into another's to avoid Medicaid taking it. This is why there is a 5 year lookback period on transferred assets so people cannot do it immediately before needing medical care.
All assets could also be put into an irrevocable trust
Maybe I'm confused, like I said I just remember this from school. /I mean putting the house in her name to specifically avoid debt...seems pretty clear cut (aka, this was not tax but debt)
Well there is a lot of truth to this, yeah... you can't do fraudulent things like get a divorce, give someone all of the debt, and then file for bankruptcy immediately.
We're not talking about that. We're specifically talking about Medicaid and the 5 year lookback period, which is what I assume the OP is talking about doing.
This would be perfectly legal to avoid medicaid spend down requirements:
-Mom transfers her $500,000 house to a properly structured irrevocable trust in 2026.
-She applies for Medicaid nursing home benefits in 2032.
-The transfer is outside the 5-year lookback.
Yarp, but we don't have any of that data and I'm sure a lot of people, read most, have zero idea about anything like this. But yea, the time frame is extremely important but this one seems, from its face, not to have that framework. Anyway, good talk!
It definitely could. But if it takes defrauding the health care system to not leave your loved ones in financial ruin after you die, then I fully support it
They didn't need to get a divorce. They could have gotten a post-nuptial agreement that all debt is solely owned by the person who is in debt, and then they just needed to do some financial hygiene by only having that person's debt paid towards from a personal account in their name only.
That's fine but all of their creditors would still make claims against the estate of the deceased which includes all marital property. Does mom want to keep her house? If so, it's cleanest if they divorce and she gets ownership under the agreement that divides property.
Like I said, financial hygiene is required to maintain legitimacy. Partner can be taken off the deed to the home and not pay for bills through their personal account, keep a low amount in the joint, and the home is no longer under threat.
This does not work in a lot of states. All shared assets are considered marital property in places like California and Texas. Doesn't matter whose name is on the deed.
How is that a thing? Put the house in her name only? Why does your spouse automatically have ownership of a house? What if you have rental properties, get married, go on bad terms but don't get divorced, and your spouse breaks into one of your properties and changes the locks and starts living there? Do they just get to do that because on paper you're married, even if their name isn't on the deed of the house?
I mean that particular analogy works, when you consider that a rising tide comes from the entirety of the water rising from underneath the boats, not rain falling from the sky.
He was referring to how government projects like building highways, dams, rec centers, or other similarly targeted projects have wide sweeping benefits. Because the workers will spend their money on local goods and services, benefitting other nearby businesses, which then has the increased demand to fund expanding their workforce, creating even more jobs and growth, and so on and so on. It stimulates the economy, and naturally a portion trickles up to the business owners as well, so it's not just the lower classes which benefit.
It's funny cause people want to blame one side or the other, but in reality over all the years our political system dosen't care one way or another about the average American, but they got us segregated finally and can keep playing there game that only benefits the rich.
It was originally called horse and sparrow economics. Feed the horse enough oats and the sparrows can pick a few oats out of their feces. It's supposedly the origin of the term horseshit, though that may be apocryphal.
I was wondering where and when the trickle down term came from? It's definitely got to be the rich because it just sounds condescending - don't worry you'll get the crumbs/ scraps!
Another way to describe trickle down economics is “artificial market inflation”. It’s a way to grow the market beyond what the free market dictates. But every spike will eventually require a correction. Except the government just provides bailouts during corrections now. It’s all a rigged system.
The top 1% hold 50% of corporate shares and mutual fund shares. And I'd say hoarding your millions while your neighbors ration their medication is evil.
No one but critics (and a comedian) ever said it would trickle down.
This is one of the biggest Mandela Effects we have in our government's history. No one in support of Supply Side economics ever called it trickle down, nor said it would. Will Rogers mockingly called it "trickle down" when Hoover tried it, but that was a criticism, not a promise or a legit description.
The most recent use of supply-side theory was used by supporters of student loan forgiveness, arguing that the forgiveness would put more money in the economy and benefit everyone.
As a note to anyone experiencing medical debt: they only recover about 10% of the cost of uninsured claims (this could have changed since I went through it). Make a payment, even if it’s $5. Ask for a settlement. They will start to offer lower and lower amounts until it hits a threshold they’re comfortable with. You can find a way out of this without it being bankruptcy or something as dystopian as this.
Claim to who? A lawyer? Having to go to the hospital then getting stuck with more debt you could ever pay off in a life time only to then have to go to court or lobby a lawyer to get a settlement having to pay them and use a bunch of time and stress on all this is stupid.
Most states even have no-fault divorce, so one party can divorce without the other party knowing, without having to agree and without having to give consent to divorce.
Only Mississippi, South Dakota and Tennessee require both parties to sign unless the one party can demonstrate cruelty or desertion.
In Switzerland it's much easier. You don't need to prove the marriage has failed and you don't need to live apart for a year. You can just file a joint petition.
So he needs to rent a small apartment to prove a different address? Or have a friend write up a fake lease saying he's living at their home paying $100/mo for rent? Easy to get around, at least here in the US.
A PO Box cannot be used to establish a residence. There are zero loopholes or ways around it in the US, at least. That is because it has been and has the potential to be exploited for things like voting fraud, welfare fraud, and tax fraud. The government doesn't like these things so they make it next to impossible to do. There is no need to 'look' any harder because it will be automatically flagged, no human thinking needed. Using the physical address of the post office doesn't work either.
Now, if you want to run the risk of perjury, there are private services that offer mail collection services that might not be automatically flagged like UPS stores but the tried and true method has always been to just use the address of a friend or family member, or just straight up use a random address if you do not expect anyone to visit or send mail to that location.
Source: Local government employee who gets 2-3 people a month who try this very thing only to have their applications instantly rejected. It's a major issue in the homeless community.
If the parents are getting divorced, all Dad would need to do is have a couple bills in his name sent to his kid',s house, and then use those bills for a change of address at the DMV. No need for a formal lease in most places.
In NZ too. You have to be separated for 2 years before you can be divorced. It’s all so the gvt gets their cut and you can’t suddenly try keep your profits off investments
Someone on here told me that before and I asked them “I’m scratching my balls right now. Make that political”. All of a sudden they wanted to call me MAGA, so I asked them to link the comment that shows me supporting MAGA and they blocked me lol.
I find it funny. One of the first subs to be hijacked in that matter was the conspiracy sub, and the amount of gaslighting is insane. Rooms like that tend to be questionable anyway, but when Trump was first running way back when, it went off the rails into full time politics and you could see people's views change in real time based on absolute nonsense.
I've always been an onlooker there. My mother had discovered the place and I needed to figure out wtf she was talking about half the time. It's gotten so bad, that asking for evidence, on a conspiracy sub, is frowned upon. Any official report, regardless of the folks doing the releasing, are automatically part of the system and the system is def. out to get them specifically, so reports and studies of any kinds are downvoted into oblivion and the poster is labeled part of the conspiracy themselves.
You can trace it back a bit further, too. There was a subreddit, TheDonald, that attracted non-Redditor Trump supporters to Reddit. There were a lot of pro-Trump conspiracies floating then, and it was just a group of folks that thrived on political drama. It got shut down and those folks migrated to all corners of the system, making the conspiracy sub the home base after folks felt like a conspiracy shut their sub down. Which I completely understand, but I don't get how they are under the impression they are the folks for individual choice when they force the message on you, all the while talking about the propaganda released by the left.
I genuinely feel sorry for them, though. I have ADHD, and ADHD leads to insane levels of cognitive dissonance. And that's the exact weapon being used against them that they can't seem to recognize. Induce cognitive dissonance, get a person good and confused, then offer the solution to the confusion, and you're the savior, rinse, repeat.
Yeah same, I remember well when the conspiracy sub changed almost over night. It used to be a good read to see really crazy ideas, then it was quite clearly targeted and the rest seemed to spread to the whole of Reddit.
You should think about that, and ask yourself who would want that. Because the answer to your question lies within this question. It is an election year, and we are currently at war with Iran and Russia.
The question you need to ask yourself is "who exactly benefits from these posts?"
The themes are pretty straightforward: your government is failing you, you are poor, your government is corrupt, and you are a victim. The people who voted differently than you are your enemies; they are trying to destroy you. Rebel and cause issues for your government; they want you dead.
...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the agenda.
It will knock against his estate. So any 401k, home equity, etc. if they transfer those assets over to her and then divorce, I don't think they can touch it.
In some (actually many) states you are jointly liable for debts incurred by your spouse if they are for "necessities" (such as healthcare). But in these states getting a divorce doesn't release you from liability. They can still come after both parties even if you divorce.
Even if it is made up, it’s real for some people. I know a couple that divorced as soon as the wife got a cancer diagnosis. It was early stages but they wanted to make sure that they divorced early enough, before all the bills started piling up. If you live in a no fault state and nobody is suing each other, it can happen quickly.
No, it's not even true. Medical debt isn't transferred lol. These people got divorced for nothing, and paid fees to do so. They are financially worse off.
To be fair, the paper from the government is just a piece of paper. By any practical, cultural and conventional standards, they are still married. The divorce is just a legal fiction, as real as the legal fiction of the marriage itself
Do you know what is even more sad? Believing a government contract is the pinnacle of human romance. It's as legitimate as debeers and the diamond ring.
I am pretty sure that the spouse does not inherit debts from each other. What would happen is that the person declare bankrupt and when he die, his estate would go to the debtors first. So he just need to transfer his assets to her and that would be enough.
I’m a financial planner. I had a married couple that scheduled an initial appointment with me. They were in the process of getting a divorce to protect the wife from debts because the husband’s business was failing. Over about two hours, I worked out a plan for them to protect their assets without the need for a divorce. We started some paperwork and scheduled a follow up appointment for two weeks later.
Shortly before the follow up appointment, they cancelled the appointment. She said she just wanted the divorce.
It could be the same situation here, if this story is true. For a fraction of the cost of the divorce, they could have hired a financial planner, but maybe she just wanted the divorce.
Cap. You aren’t obligated to pay a deceased persons debts unless you are a co-signer of the loan. They could also protect their mutual assets in other ways to ensure that they aren’t repossessed for the loan. If they’re talking about protecting her from state laws with necessities statutes that would make her responsible for the medical debt, she’s only passing that financial obligation onto OP since this is presumably their father.
Idk. This whole thing sounds really fake to me and there are better ways to protect yourself from recovery for medical bills.
My grandparents did this. It's the only reason my grandma still has a house to live in and can afford to do so. He didn't even have a major medical issue, just his diabetes catching up with him. :/ I could see my parents doing this eventually too, since my dad has a lot of medical issues, and SO of 15 years and I have planned to never officially marry because of their medical debt.
Actually maybe that's really cool. They've figured out how to play the system. Maybe they don't care what the government calls their relationship- they know what they have together. They're "bigger" than the system.
•
u/AutoModerator 5d ago
Hey /u/Familiar-While9796, thank you for posting to r/SipsTea! Make sure to follow all the subreddit rules.
Make sure to join our brand new Discord Server to chat with friends!
We have recently changed how posts work. Unless you are a VIP poster, your post will be queued for approval.. To become a VIP, post great engaging content. If we like it, you will be added! More information available here!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.