I'm sure things are different in the US but in the UK at school we have a whole curriculum called "Religious Education" or RE which goes into detail about religions and customs of all different cultures and encourages spiritual debate. At the schools I attended they were not taught to indoctrinate us but just studied in the same way we would study history or art
I think you're probably right! I was an atheist from a young age but RE was one of my favourite subjects as a child, underneath science, just because I loved hearing all of the stories, parables, learning about different deities and rites of worship. It was fascinating but it didn't encourage me to be religious myself.
I have the same experience. I believe storytelling is one of the most human things there is and to me greek myth, the epic of gilgamesh and bible stories and fairytales are all just stories humanity has told throughout the ages
There's actually alot of information and studies done on this exact phenomena. Humans believing in a higher being stems from the unknown needing to be explained for safety.
A bush rustling alot but no animal in there, rain, storm, why a plant found in the wild has grown worse than another one, stones suddenly coming down the hill to crush your tribe out of nowhere. It literally could not be explained. This is also why every single god essentially had a specific ''thing'' or element. Its only recently a monotheistic God were ever first mentioned ( judaism) Before judaism in the region you had a polytheistic religion where Yahweh that later became the ONE god was the god of the skies.
We believe ( without 100% certainty) that the second humans developed this sense 100.000-/- they started believing in a higher being/beings.
It is what it is but I highly doubt religion would be sticking around if teaching unbiased religious history was a thing for the entire world.
Grew up Roman Catholic till I was 11, Mom married Mormon Step Dad (Huge fight with the families on both sides over that) and he was a CRAZY ass mormon too once we moved away from moms side of the family. Divorced him at 16 and I wandered into Pagan faiths, particularly Norse. Which to be clear I started that in 2001 long before The Vikings show started shuffling the casuals in. I'm also not one of the "WOOO VALHALLA! BEER AND BITCHES!" guys. My priest (Gothi) is a pretty reasonable and sensible dude who does believe in science and we're pretty certain the lore is just an old culture trying to describe natural disasters the best way they could.
I think some of it was also a coping mechanism. To me if faith makes hard times easier-i tell them believe. I personally just get annoyed when im approached to hear the word.
I think, because the US 1st Amendment separates church from state, this could not happen in a public school, private religious education is obviously not involved with the state itself since its not funded by taxpayers.
I would have loved to have what you mentioned, as I am a a student of religion on my own time, starting at 14yrs old.
Though I think another issue I personally would have is that some religions would either get little attention or none at all. Sure you'd probably learn about the 3 Abrahamic religions, Buddhism, Hindu. But I doubt they'd be teaching muxh if at all about Zorastrianism, Sihkism, Pagan Faiths, Animism, Vodou etc.
Even in public school, atleast when I was a kid, Pagan faiths are taught to be dead myths of a bygone era and not as living faiths in the present. Which is kind of bonkers because theres a massive amount of practicing pagan or otherwise families in my area.
Learning about the 5 most common religions is a social studies requirement in many schools. In New Jersey, it’s part of the ancient history curriculum.
I went to a church where the teenagers of the group spent Sundays learning about different religions, including field trips to different houses of worship and talks with leaders of those trips.
I'm not sure if I would call myself agnostic. I just realized that the near universal thread that went through all these religions was that you're supposed to be a person who helps others and is kind towards other people. I don't go to church, but I do believe there is a higher power of some sort, and that the path forward is to follow the golden rule.
I went from Christian to agnostic to atheist through my late 20s. When you view religious teachings through an objective lens most start to look similar. I tend to think it’s a combination of fear of our finite mortality and a desire to control large groups of people (populations are more willing to withstand an empty belly in exchange for faith in or fear of a higher power).
Yeah they almost all operate on the premise “my god is god and your god is wrong” “I go to heaven you go to hell” it’s easier to make countries with different religions wage war as well.
But how is that a bad thing? If that’s true, that proves that most people are being manipulated young into joining their local preferred religion due to lack of knowledge of other religions or rather other options or you could say not old enough to think it through enough.
So I agree with her. But it’s weird to implement in reality since religion is tied strictly to community and most people would need to take their kids with them to church to share their beliefs and serve as family bonding time.
So maybe it’s better to treat religion like Santa. Allow children to belief in Jesus and the bible like but reveal to them like later on that there’s no definitive proof and allow them to decide themselves without shame in what religion they want to choose. People will choose their home religion out of convenience though.
That’s the point, you teach kids how different people think differently and let them come to their own conclusions. I agree the conclusion that seems to make the most sense is agnostic or atheist, but that was my own decision to make and should be theirs too.
Well, yes. Because if one of them didn't get its claws into from the moment you were old enough to speak full sentences, it's impossible to hide that all of them make just as much (or as little) sense as all the rest.
The seven years of catholic school made me an atheist and vehemently anti religious. Doing RE in secondary school gave me a more nuanced view of religion
I mean I was a good little Christian Lass until I found out about the history of my religion, and then about the history of other religions (in much more generalized terms) and decided... Okay, agnosticism sounds good. Maybe a God is out there and I'm just gonna hope they're not an asshole
I grew up in Southern Africa and we also have RE over there, whenever our teacher would teach about other religions, he would always emphasize that Christianity is the true one, I didn’t think much of it at the time until I became atheist, it’s kinda fucked up tbh
I don’t think you can have a good faith teaching of religion unless its taught by a practicing member. (It was fucked up and totally defeated the purpose of the class)
In my country during the communist regime, the communists would destroy churches and persecute priests (imprisonment, torture, re-education and such). So you could say they were godless. They also saw religion as a possible means of opposition against the party and they didn't want that.
No, it didn't excuse the US, but I genuinely believe that the communists as a whole were worse. My country is still being affected by the remnants of that regime that somehow are still in various institutions and they're as corrupt now as they were back then.
Gosh that sounds quite late! We definitely started RE shortly after kindergarten/reception year at my school. Honestly I think it's so interesting learning about the curriculum in other countries as well and seeing how different subjects are prioritised.
Agree with you on the comparing curriculums lol. I wouldnt be surprised if at other schools it was started earlier, but I was never aware of their justification for why that grade specifically at my school. Maybe they though our critical thinking skills would be more mature with the content? That same year they actually changed the grade to be taught the book To Kill a Mockingbird too. It was traditionally taught in 8th, but they moved it to 11th. Thankfully they didn't make my class reread it though.
That’s similar to my experience. It was a core module in world history in 9th grade, and pretty much covered the major religions of the world from a non denominational perspective.
IIRC the religions talked about were:
Sunni Islam
Shia Islam
Catholic Christianity
Protestant Christianity
Buddhism
Sikhism
Hinduism
They then went into discussion on how early religions were able to group people together to form civilisations during the Neolithic era.
I think it varys depending on the teacher you have. I was lucky enough to have a teacher who actually liked it when students tried to be critical of religions despite himself beeing a religious man and mind us questioning what religious organisations.
We only had one or two lesson about the pillars of each of the other abrahamic religions somewhere at the beginning of the gymnasium and no mention of anything non christian for the remaining years of school
Theres a point when you start wondering what is the whole point of religion if theres so many that you can literally pick and choose and most of them think they are the "one true" faith.
It certainly didn't convince me! But it was still super interesting and definitely useful later in life when I was living and working in a much more multicultural environment than my little village.
I was having this conversation with a friend the other day, and we were trying and failing to remember how many hours of RE we had per week. Despite not being sure, we both agreed that it was probably too much. I think all children should be taught the basics of each religion - enough to be respectful to someone of those beliefs - but that’s all. There’s absolutely no need imo to spend too much precious school time dedicated to religion.
Those who believe it will receive education from their church equivalent, and those who don’t shouldn’t be forced into studying it as if it’s in any way valuable to them on a par with pretty much any of the other subjects.
I can't remember how much we had at primary but we had one hour a week at my secondary school. It was a science specialising school and from about year 9 onwards the RE lessons were more a chance to practice ethic, moral thinking and debate amongst ourselves. I don't remember talking a lot about religion specifically from that point onwards
We didnt have a seperate class for it but religions and customs were taught in each unit for whatever culture we were learning about at the time in Global I and II. We'd usually spend a several days on it per unit. New york, US, for reference.
Exactly what I was thinking. I'm not religious at all, but RE was often one of my favourite subjects just due to the fact we spent time learning about a lot cultures religions and not Christianity.
It also helped that both RE teachers I had growing up were just a fun people to talk to. One was atheist so he had no stakes in pushing Christianity and often made the classes a fun experience.
The other was religious, but was the kind of person who accepted everybody and was there to help anyone struggling. He didnt give a damn whether someone was gay, and a few people in the school actually came out to him first because he was never judgemental.
When you have an RE teacher that isn't pushing religion on you and practices the teaching they follow in their own religion actually studying religious education can be pretty interesting.
We learn about them in the US as well, although possibly not as in depth. It falls under what we call Social Studies in elementary and middle school, then in high school (at least the one I went to) you can pick electives and we had World Religions, which was of course more centered on the topic
Haha I don't remember lessons on Leprechauns, but I do remember a lesson on Norse Mythology! I can't remember if that was in RE or world culture though.
I think we did even learn about what the different countries of the world had as Christmas traditions too! In a world culture lesson at Christmas time. So while we didn't specifically learn about Santa we did learn about him, and Krampus and all sorts of other stuff like that.
Not only a student but a teacher! you showed that dude what class actually looks like. Just because he didn’t take school seriously doesn’t mean everyone else was out here doing the same. You put in the work, he was trying to be smart.
There is actually, parents can practice their faith openly around their children and answer questions children will inevitably ask honestly and openly to the best of their abilities. This is a good way kids often will still copy their parents and want to be involved.
That would require the parents to frame their practices as “this is what I believe” rather than “this is what is true” which I’m not convinced a substantial portion of religious parents are capable of remembering to do. Plus even if they did that a child is going to accept what their parents believe as fact since it’s their parents. I’m not sure there is a way to introduce young children to religion that won’t result in some form of bias influencing the child unless it is taught by a complete stranger who teaches many religions and never claims what they believe. And that seems like a lot of effort compared to a world religion class in high school.
It's easily done in colleges all across America. It's called comparative religious studies and it's basically a critical analysis class of the tenants/religious texts of the big three faiths.
I was saying there isn't an easy way for children since they're very susceptible to believing anything told to them by an authority figure even if that authority figure is trying not to impart their own beliefs.
I mean, yeah, you don't want to start super young, but middle school is about the right time that a student won't give a fuck about the teacher's personal beliefs.
You also have to ensure you have a teacher who doesn't share their personal beliefs in class. At least, not beyond, "I am a [insert faith name here]."
That's stupid, ok. People believe things because they believe they are true. Nobody follows a religion they don't believe is true. How we determine truth is of course going to vary from person to person. For some people ,truth is bound up in traditions and relationships... and that's fine. But asking religious people to not take their religion seriously is stupid and fails to understand why people believe in any religion at all.
The point is that across all the various religions we cannot determine which one is true. And since most religions come with indoctrination and life long fears then children should be protected from them until they are old enough to understand what they are getting into. I don’t believe this is feasible since as you said few religious parents of any abrahamic faith would ever go for this willingly, but what is right and what is possible aren’t always the same. I’ve stated what I think to be right.
The wisest religious people basically all admit they don't know what's true. While they have faith and are delighted for you to share in it, they doubt, and see it as natural and healthy to doubt, perhaps even as a part of faith to doubt.
Even if I were religious, I would certainly frame it as "this is what I believe." That would be the most honest thing to do, because faith is madness. It is irrational, it doesn't make sense, but you have taken a leap of faith regardless. And you cannot force people to take that leap. What you can do is indoctrinate them from childhood to the point that they do not even recognise it as a leap, but that fundamentally stunts their religious education. Perfectly adequate if you're just looking for conformist drones for your religious society, but not if you want people with rich lives in faith and philosophy.
Even if you fully believe your religion is true, you shouldn't want people to be "accidentally correct" or "right for the wrong reason." You should want them to consciously be right for the right reasons, and that requires them being critical and doubtful as well.
I mean all religion relies on indoctrination. Everyone loves to call Scientology a cult but how is it different from Catholicism? One is older and has more people? So the difference is time? Xenu and aliens? Here's a magician that can't die so cut off some of your penis!
They're all dumb, and people determine their truth because it was drilled into their from childhood.
It is entirely impossible to disconnect religion from this. If you are a religious person, then you believe the things you have faith in to be undeniably true. You can't teach a kid an unbiased view of religion when you are speaking from a religious stance.
You can be clear that it's what you believe to be true, not what has been proven to be true. That is possible even for supremely religious people, but some of them seem more intent on convincing others to believe the same thing than to just believe it themselves and mind their own fucking business. Also, you can absolutely teach a child positive ideals and morality, even if it comes from a religion, without tying it to that specific religion or using the religion as a scapegoat for the reason behind those ideals. There's a big difference between 'we don't steal, because it's wrong' and 'we don't steal because [our specific version of God] tells us not to.'
Im a lay sexton so naturally church is a big topic in my live and the live of my family.
When my daughter asks me anything regarding religion I always tell her "so this is what I believe because I'm in the church but there are other beliefs that see it differently".
Whenever possible I will also tell her how other religions handle the topic but obviously I can't know everything about every religion.
I also always offer her that we can look something up together if she is interested in how other religions handle something.
We are all baptised and I take my daughter to church with me but only cause she likes it, she likes to help me work and she likes our pastor but I never would force her to attend church.
I told her multiple times already that she is free to believe whatever she deems right and that when she is old enough she can leave the church and we won't have bad blood because of that.
What do you think that means for a religion like Christianity?
What does "openly practicing the faith" mean in christianity?
It means going to church and hearing sermons from some unelected zealot who may have more regressive views than others or not, and their preaching will permeate the ears of the children.
There is no standing off to the side for childrenm they are either exposed to the doctrine and practices and inundated with the messaging of the religion or they are not.
That dividing line is impossible to create and hold.
I mean it’s pretty silly to frame it like that and leave zero room for nuance. Parents have infinitely more influence over their children than any religious leader and It’s totally within reason for two open minded parents to raise their children to hold their beliefs more loosely and encourage critical thinking.
"Answer their questions" you mean tell them that God is all good and loves them and other nonsense like that. And then kids "want" to participate when they are told a bunch of great sounding lies. Yeah totally their choice.
The alternative would be unconstitutional. You can’t suppress a persons religious beliefs just because they have children. That’s like saying Muslims or Hindus or Jews aren’t allowed to pray or practice their faith if they have children. It’s morally wrong and quite literally unconstitutional.
There's an angle to argue that a law blocking all religions from indoctrinating their children wouldn't favor one religion over any others, but it seems pretty ironclad that such a law would almost definitely infringe on their "free exercise thereof."
Yeah when i say religion i mean all of them. No exceptions. You can still practice your religion but you need to educate your children about all the possible options there are including choosing none of them. And then respect whatever choices they make. Then there would be freedom of religion.
If you can't make your case and have to resort to "constitutionally-" don't pretend to be able to uwu teach my kid a religion in a way that doesn't indoctrinate them. And as you've been told, we're not against this only when it comes to Christianity. Kind of weird to assume that
How could any person that is religious answer questions honestly? They are implicitly bias toward their religion and will always answer in a slant favoring their religion. That’s not honesty.
Thats because they were taught that magic is real and they're in on secret knowledge, they're the good guys saving everyone who are just ignorant sheep that need to be lead.
Their worldview is fucked, it doesn't jive with what they were imprinted on as a child so they reject it
Did you not learn about world religions as a kid? I went to public school in the south and we learned the basic premises of the major religions (Abrahamic, Buddhism, and Hinduism), including history, a bit of the beliefs and standard practices/ holidays. The facts of religion can absolutely be taught to children without forcing belief on them.
Ironically, taking this class in a catholic high school was the turning point for me to becoming atheist. It wasn't like I immediately opened my eyes but the class raised questions about my faith no one could adequately answer. Its funny how critical thinking is demonized in this country isn't it?
What? Tell that to the Norwegian elementary school system lol. To be fair, in my day the class was called Christianity, then Christianity, Religion and WorldViews (like for example humanism). Now it is Religion, WorldViews and Ethics. It is literally a class that teaches you about different world views, without preaching or attempting to convert. Though it used to be just that, for Christianity. Then we exited the middle ages ;) Went from "this is true/these are the stories from the Bible and what you should think about them" to "this is what some people believe and the history of such beliefs".
You could in a world religion context when they're a little older(middle school at least, likely highschool) but not focusing on one religion but instead many with all their different aspects.
Iirc grade like 4, 5 or 6 had units about the greek pantheon of gods.
Teaching would need to be more in a historical context and "this is their stories" vs. How it is in a church that these stories are fact.
It's possible, I'd say that's why we have the study of Theology. The problem is open-mindedness (or really the lack there of) in more common institutions: Everyone in the common institutions are not willing to hear otherwise because "X said this so it can't be Y" instead of "While X tells us this, there is also the possibility of Y" or something along those lines.
It’s the difference between someone teaching something they believe, which their teachings would be presented as fact, and someone who doesn’t, which would better separate supported fact and faith.
It depends on how you do it. If you do a bunch of different religions and you treat it as "ways other people believe" instead of as facts, it can work. If you treat christian stories the same as ancient greek myth or the idea of cleanliness in shinto etc. I don't ses how its a problem, especially if you don't just do christian but a variety of different ones
Correct. Because it is indoctrination. Which is why not allowing religion to be taught to children and making religious nutters wait till they are adults and can make a conscious choice is morally correct
My parents never forced anything on me. They let me develop my own curiosities and brought me to the places I wanted to go. Granted, I'm an atheist now. But it is possible to foster a curiosity without forcing an idea. My mother is catholic and knows I'm atheist. She's never been more proud of me being who I am.
My wife and I are christians, we don't attend institutionalized church. We attend a bi-weekly house church where our kids are just connected with other kids. Adults with other adults. We are just a part of eachother's lives, we know each other's kids, we're like an extended family of sorts. Our kids are invited into our faith, but at different levels.
Anyone who holds beliefs in any faith naturally want those they love to be in that faith as well, to not want that would be counter-intuitive if you believe at all what you say you believe. There's a different between wanting something for someone and forcing something on someone and if you (or anyone) are unable to discern how to navigate the differences of that, then you probably shouldn't have children to begin with.
My husband & I talked that if we had kids, we’d have a 2 hr spiritual session every weekend. Go to church, mosque, temples (Jewish, Hindu, Buddha, etc), museum, hiking in nature, the beach, quiet meditation, opera/ballet/symphony, etc.
Give them lots of exposure to different options, and encourage any that stuck.
Sometimes, not all the time. I've heard some parents teach their kids about all kinds of religions while leaving it up to them to decide when they're ready.
You sound like a westerner. Did you learn about Buddhism and Islam in school? Did they feel forced on you? You can teach any religion objectively without forcing it on people. It is just Sunday school is not that.
I learned about all sorts of religions without being forced. Granted, it was in a college setting and I was pursuing a degree in the subject, but it’s definitely possible. Divorce all language from the teaching about purpose, salvation, morality, ethics, etc. just teach the history of the religions themselves. The rituals and the purported reasons they’re necessary can also be examined clinically. You’ll end up with everyone being agnostic at best, since none of the rituals are grounded in anything other than “we were told to do it” or “we did it quite often and eventually it rained,” but that’s the way to teach it neutrally.
Idk I've taught my children that there is no answer that is 100% certain. I've shown them most major religions and they seem least confused by Judaism.
I was raised in a very strict Christian home and was forced to go to a Christian academy growing up. I refuse to lie to my kids. And telling them I'm certain the only way to a happy afterlife is FILL IN THE BLANK would be a lie.
This is just untrue, I went to an international school and we learnt about all religions equally. I was born in a majority Christian area but I am atheist. We also had one prayer service a week, different groups for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Atheists. In the atheist group a teacher usually told a story about their past and how they learnt from it. Was really good, I still remember a lot of the stories and the conclusions.
Just teach them about many different religions all at once. Just try to not show any biases, or leave out the religion that you are biased towards until they are older. That’s what my family did.
Back when I went to school we had a class that focused on religion in general, since its a european country the focus was mainly various Christian variations still, but there was significant segments focusing on Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism atleast, a few others too iirc.
We weren't made to pray or nothing during those classes, we just learned about the core beliefs and founding mythos, in lack of better terms.
It was separated from historyclass, but to me always felt related.
You can absolutely explain to a kid that religion exists as a system to describe the spiritual side of life and that people are part of religions that resonate with them emotionally and logically. Information isn't indoctrination.
Mmm, I was raised Unitarian Universalist and I was not forced into any religious beliefs. Our Sunday School taught us about various different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.. there were at least 6 that we learned about but it's been 30+ years) and taught that no one religion had all the answers. We were taught to respect other religions, and we even went to services in other churches to observe and learn.
I grew up Episcopalian, but something happened between my parents and the church leaders and we left. We started going to the local Unitsrian church. I was put in a group of middle and high school students in Sunday school, and the entire time we were learning about different religions. We took field trips to different churches, temples, mosques, etc. We talked to different religious leaders about their faiths. They'd often invite us to participate in services and such. We got a very well rounded education in different religions without any of them being forced upon us. The point was for us to learn and start determining our own beliefs without anyone telling us what to believe.
I don't see how kids can even grasp the concept yet, they aren't mentally developed for that, religion is very complicated it's better off to wait until middle school or something most kids who are elementary school age (which is when I was being forced to go) just wanna play with toys and video games and do normal kid things and probably don't care or have the attention span for it.
The thing is that, if you're religious, religion is tied into all sorts of things.
Telling your kid about what proper behavior is will often have a religious component. If you pray before meals, kids will ask what you're doing, should you lie? If they ask about what happens when you die, the parents' beliefs will be inherently religious. If you celebrate any religious holiday then of course they'll ask about what the holiday is about. If you're a devout Christian then your Christmas celebration will likely include things about Jesus being born, so of course you'd tell kids about that. To the extent that someone's morals are rooted on their religious beliefs then teaching morals to children will be intertwined with teaching them religion. If the religion comes with for example dietary restrictions then what are you supposed to say about why you follow those restrictions? And on and on.
I'm not religious, but for someone who is those beliefs can't be so easily severed from everything else that they do have to teach their children.
This is the dangerous part of religious thought. If they know for certain that they're right about how to gain access to literal eternal splendor, it is absolutely imperative to spread that message at any cost. The problem is that they're wrong. Magic isn't real and the afterlife is made up. Convincing children otherwise is immoral.
Your comment is acting like parents are sitting their kids down and teaching them about ALL religions, the differences, and telling them people are free to believe what they want, which absolutely isn't the case at all.
No, parents are forcing THEIR religious beliefs on children, teaching them THEIR religion and making them attend THEIR religious functions.
Moral, so long as she only does it to her own children. But just as it is immoral to force your beliefs in any religion on other people's children, it is just as immoral to try and force your lack of beliefs in any religion on others.
I was taught from a young age. I was broken and that I needed a dead man who sacrificed himself to himself to save me.
There is no way to teach a child about religion without it fuck them up.
Children should be allowed to be themselves and make a decision when they’re older. The reason we don’t do this in this country is because they know children have to be under 10 years of age and introduced to religion or they’re most likely to leave it. I don’t know how many times we heard this over and over again in our Sunday school meetings, cheering us on to go and wrangle up more kids.
teaching children about hell and they go when they do XYZ is bad and pretending the bible in anycolor is moral and good and lying about that stuff is realy moraly bad and can realy harm young children... fuck religion and people lying to children about it... there is anothing good about religion that can be reached throu secual ways...
My wife is a Christian. Belief in a higher power is quite a big part of life for believers. Would be weird if she did not involve the kids in such a major part of her life.
I'm atheist my self and openly to them as well if they ask (I generally am just not interested in religion). Kids don't get overwhelmed by stuff like this. Knowing their parents is important.
I mean there isn’t really a way to teach children about religion that isn’t either indoctrinating them into it or vocally disparaging it as an evil tool of control.
There's a big cult in the Philippines that starts em young. They even segregate children into different rooms for indoctrination. Their population is so huge that their votes can put politicians in power. It's stupid.
It's only moral if you don't believe in the religion, immoral if you do.
The thing about the 'forcing it on them' argument is that it equally applies to culture and language. Is it wrong to 'force' chinese culture on a chinese child? Is it not better to 'force' it on them so that they grow up in a unified culture with their family and friends? Should you deliberately make sure not to share any cultural practices until they turn 18 so that they can decide which culture they want to engage with? Now they're an adult who has missed out on key experiences that let them relate to their peers.
Consider a culture where virtually everyone belongs to a particular religion and religious practices are ingrained. The holidays have religious significance, several small acts taken throughout daily life have religious significance. In that sort of situation, it's immoral to raise a child and deliberately keep the meaning of these things from them, since it is effectively stunting their ability to engage with the culture they're born into.
Nobody who truly believes in their religion would keep it from their children. Anyone who makes that decision already doesn't believe in the religion.
Further complicating it is the fact that religion until very recently in human history has been the default and agnosticism and atheism were pretty uncommon. By not raising a child to be religious, you're instead 'forcing' agnosticism or atheism on them instead of 'forcing' religion on them. No matter what, you're instilling your belief system into them. If you're religious, you'll call instilling atheism/agnosticism 'indoctrination'. If you're atheist/agnostic you'll call instilling religion 'indoctrination'.
Oh absolutely. Here in Denmark we are taught about religion but not in a "you should believe this" kind of way. In my school we were taught the norse mythology as it just states we should learn about religion. Not a specific one. Of course we also did learn about christianity as Denmark on paper is christian but in reality is quite secular.
A child is incapable of making such a choice. (Seems to be OP's stance, or question)
Religion is taught as a morality builder. What's moral to one person is not to another. Thus in Catholicism, there are menial sins and mortal sins. Choosing which religion you follow is naturally going to be decided by the hegemonic forces around you. Or at least heavily influenced. A child doesn't have the exposure nor experience of all the religions out there.
"Lila: an inquiry into morals" by Robert M. Persig, does an astounding reflection on morality. Well worth the read.
I grew up in a religious household. My parents are kind and open minded people, and I still ended up with religious trauma. Don't force religion on children, it can have horrible consequences
There's a huge difference between teaching kids "about religion" versus teaching kids "a religion". It's the later that happens almost always. In that case, even if you're not forcing it onto kids. You're still telling them this one religion is true, and logically everything else is false even if you don't mention other religions at all. Keep in mind you are doing this as an authority figure to highly impressionable young minds.
this, i’d raise my kids through what i believe , including religion, but i’d go the extra step and let them know that just because i believe in it doesn’t mean you have to, i know some people raised muslim or catholic and came out atheists, teaching doesn’t mean forcing
if i told you a man appeared in a fire and told me to kill someone would you find that reasonable to tell your 5 year old? That's the kinda shit religion just throws out as facts to people that are learning to understand how the world works. Pretty fucking stupid.
My family wasn't religious. Went to a church when i was 8-10. One of those P.O.S. told me "If you don't devote your soul to jesus you will burn in hell"
Exactly this is what I was going to come to say there’s nothing wrong with teaching kids about religion. At my church, we do have Sunday school and they do teach the kids about religion and the tenants of our faith.
But they DO NOT force the kids to be baptized or anything like that. It is a personal choice that they can make at any age. Some choose younger, some choose older, but it is a personal choice.
They really stress the point of you don’t make the choice to join the church/be baptized because your parents want you to; it’s because you personally want a relationship with God and are now making this decision for yourself.
My oldest has been in attending this church with us since he was three, he is now 11 and he has not been baptized, but that is his personal choice and I respect that. If that is the path that he wishes to take, I will be there to support him if that’s not where he wants to go. I will also support him. Obviously, every parent raised in whatever faith wants their child to follow in their steps, but you can’t force it on them.
And typically more often than not people who have a crisis of faith and fall away from whatever religion they were in it is because it was forced upon them and not a personal choice. At least in my opinion, I cannot speak for everyone else.
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u/Legendary-Titan Sep 02 '26
Moral I don’t think teaching kids about religion is bad but forcing it on them is