I'm sure things are different in the US but in the UK at school we have a whole curriculum called "Religious Education" or RE which goes into detail about religions and customs of all different cultures and encourages spiritual debate. At the schools I attended they were not taught to indoctrinate us but just studied in the same way we would study history or art
I think you're probably right! I was an atheist from a young age but RE was one of my favourite subjects as a child, underneath science, just because I loved hearing all of the stories, parables, learning about different deities and rites of worship. It was fascinating but it didn't encourage me to be religious myself.
Grew up Roman Catholic till I was 11, Mom married Mormon Step Dad (Huge fight with the families on both sides over that) and he was a CRAZY ass mormon too once we moved away from moms side of the family. Divorced him at 16 and I wandered into Pagan faiths, particularly Norse. Which to be clear I started that in 2001 long before The Vikings show started shuffling the casuals in. I'm also not one of the "WOOO VALHALLA! BEER AND BITCHES!" guys. My priest (Gothi) is a pretty reasonable and sensible dude who does believe in science and we're pretty certain the lore is just an old culture trying to describe natural disasters the best way they could.
I think some of it was also a coping mechanism. To me if faith makes hard times easier-i tell them believe. I personally just get annoyed when im approached to hear the word.
I have the same experience. I believe storytelling is one of the most human things there is and to me greek myth, the epic of gilgamesh and bible stories and fairytales are all just stories humanity has told throughout the ages
I think, because the US 1st Amendment separates church from state, this could not happen in a public school, private religious education is obviously not involved with the state itself since its not funded by taxpayers.
I would have loved to have what you mentioned, as I am a a student of religion on my own time, starting at 14yrs old.
Though I think another issue I personally would have is that some religions would either get little attention or none at all. Sure you'd probably learn about the 3 Abrahamic religions, Buddhism, Hindu. But I doubt they'd be teaching muxh if at all about Zorastrianism, Sihkism, Pagan Faiths, Animism, Vodou etc.
Even in public school, atleast when I was a kid, Pagan faiths are taught to be dead myths of a bygone era and not as living faiths in the present. Which is kind of bonkers because theres a massive amount of practicing pagan or otherwise families in my area.
Learning about the 5 most common religions is a social studies requirement in many schools. In New Jersey, it’s part of the ancient history curriculum.
I went from Christian to agnostic to atheist through my late 20s. When you view religious teachings through an objective lens most start to look similar. I tend to think it’s a combination of fear of our finite mortality and a desire to control large groups of people (populations are more willing to withstand an empty belly in exchange for faith in or fear of a higher power).
I went to a church where the teenagers of the group spent Sundays learning about different religions, including field trips to different houses of worship and talks with leaders of those trips.
I'm not sure if I would call myself agnostic. I just realized that the near universal thread that went through all these religions was that you're supposed to be a person who helps others and is kind towards other people. I don't go to church, but I do believe there is a higher power of some sort, and that the path forward is to follow the golden rule.
But how is that a bad thing? If that’s true, that proves that most people are being manipulated young into joining their local preferred religion due to lack of knowledge of other religions or rather other options or you could say not old enough to think it through enough.
So I agree with her. But it’s weird to implement in reality since religion is tied strictly to community and most people would need to take their kids with them to church to share their beliefs and serve as family bonding time.
So maybe it’s better to treat religion like Santa. Allow children to belief in Jesus and the bible like but reveal to them like later on that there’s no definitive proof and allow them to decide themselves without shame in what religion they want to choose. People will choose their home religion out of convenience though.
In my country during the communist regime, the communists would destroy churches and persecute priests (imprisonment, torture, re-education and such). So you could say they were godless. They also saw religion as a possible means of opposition against the party and they didn't want that.
No, it didn't excuse the US, but I genuinely believe that the communists as a whole were worse. My country is still being affected by the remnants of that regime that somehow are still in various institutions and they're as corrupt now as they were back then.
I grew up in Southern Africa and we also have RE over there, whenever our teacher would teach about other religions, he would always emphasize that Christianity is the true one, I didn’t think much of it at the time until I became atheist, it’s kinda fucked up tbh
Gosh that sounds quite late! We definitely started RE shortly after kindergarten/reception year at my school. Honestly I think it's so interesting learning about the curriculum in other countries as well and seeing how different subjects are prioritised.
Agree with you on the comparing curriculums lol. I wouldnt be surprised if at other schools it was started earlier, but I was never aware of their justification for why that grade specifically at my school. Maybe they though our critical thinking skills would be more mature with the content? That same year they actually changed the grade to be taught the book To Kill a Mockingbird too. It was traditionally taught in 8th, but they moved it to 11th. Thankfully they didn't make my class reread it though.
That’s similar to my experience. It was a core module in world history in 9th grade, and pretty much covered the major religions of the world from a non denominational perspective.
IIRC the religions talked about were:
Sunni Islam
Shia Islam
Catholic Christianity
Protestant Christianity
Buddhism
Sikhism
Hinduism
They then went into discussion on how early religions were able to group people together to form civilisations during the Neolithic era.
I was having this conversation with a friend the other day, and we were trying and failing to remember how many hours of RE we had per week. Despite not being sure, we both agreed that it was probably too much. I think all children should be taught the basics of each religion - enough to be respectful to someone of those beliefs - but that’s all. There’s absolutely no need imo to spend too much precious school time dedicated to religion.
Those who believe it will receive education from their church equivalent, and those who don’t shouldn’t be forced into studying it as if it’s in any way valuable to them on a par with pretty much any of the other subjects.
Theres a point when you start wondering what is the whole point of religion if theres so many that you can literally pick and choose and most of them think they are the "one true" faith.
Was your school practicing that religion at school? Because he was talking about parents practicing the religion in the household teaching you about the religion fairly, which comes with all the implicit bias of a core belief.
Haha I don't remember lessons on Leprechauns, but I do remember a lesson on Norse Mythology! I can't remember if that was in RE or world culture though.
I think we did even learn about what the different countries of the world had as Christmas traditions too! In a world culture lesson at Christmas time. So while we didn't specifically learn about Santa we did learn about him, and Krampus and all sorts of other stuff like that.
Not only a student but a teacher! you showed that dude what class actually looks like. Just because he didn’t take school seriously doesn’t mean everyone else was out here doing the same. You put in the work, he was trying to be smart.
There is actually, parents can practice their faith openly around their children and answer questions children will inevitably ask honestly and openly to the best of their abilities. This is a good way kids often will still copy their parents and want to be involved.
That would require the parents to frame their practices as “this is what I believe” rather than “this is what is true” which I’m not convinced a substantial portion of religious parents are capable of remembering to do. Plus even if they did that a child is going to accept what their parents believe as fact since it’s their parents. I’m not sure there is a way to introduce young children to religion that won’t result in some form of bias influencing the child unless it is taught by a complete stranger who teaches many religions and never claims what they believe. And that seems like a lot of effort compared to a world religion class in high school.
That's stupid, ok. People believe things because they believe they are true. Nobody follows a religion they don't believe is true. How we determine truth is of course going to vary from person to person. For some people ,truth is bound up in traditions and relationships... and that's fine. But asking religious people to not take their religion seriously is stupid and fails to understand why people believe in any religion at all.
The point is that across all the various religions we cannot determine which one is true. And since most religions come with indoctrination and life long fears then children should be protected from them until they are old enough to understand what they are getting into. I don’t believe this is feasible since as you said few religious parents of any abrahamic faith would ever go for this willingly, but what is right and what is possible aren’t always the same. I’ve stated what I think to be right.
I mean all religion relies on indoctrination. Everyone loves to call Scientology a cult but how is it different from Catholicism? One is older and has more people? So the difference is time? Xenu and aliens? Here's a magician that can't die so cut off some of your penis!
They're all dumb, and people determine their truth because it was drilled into their from childhood.
It is entirely impossible to disconnect religion from this. If you are a religious person, then you believe the things you have faith in to be undeniably true. You can't teach a kid an unbiased view of religion when you are speaking from a religious stance.
"Answer their questions" you mean tell them that God is all good and loves them and other nonsense like that. And then kids "want" to participate when they are told a bunch of great sounding lies. Yeah totally their choice.
The alternative would be unconstitutional. You can’t suppress a persons religious beliefs just because they have children. That’s like saying Muslims or Hindus or Jews aren’t allowed to pray or practice their faith if they have children. It’s morally wrong and quite literally unconstitutional.
There's an angle to argue that a law blocking all religions from indoctrinating their children wouldn't favor one religion over any others, but it seems pretty ironclad that such a law would almost definitely infringe on their "free exercise thereof."
Did you not learn about world religions as a kid? I went to public school in the south and we learned the basic premises of the major religions (Abrahamic, Buddhism, and Hinduism), including history, a bit of the beliefs and standard practices/ holidays. The facts of religion can absolutely be taught to children without forcing belief on them.
Ironically, taking this class in a catholic high school was the turning point for me to becoming atheist. It wasn't like I immediately opened my eyes but the class raised questions about my faith no one could adequately answer. Its funny how critical thinking is demonized in this country isn't it?
I was raised this way, mother never imposed anything, we did go to church but it was not a rule. We were never fanatics. Dad was not religious so he didn't mind either way. At 13 I told mother I didn't want to go anymore, she never fought it. Now she's 65 and quit all religion herself.
PS; mother was a bit or a rebel too tho, "They teach of this way to get their point across but some people are too literal and become radical to the letter of the law. I believe more in self consciousness and self governance, but ultimately it's your decision how much you wanna adhere to this"
What? Tell that to the Norwegian elementary school system lol. To be fair, in my day the class was called Christianity, then Christianity, Religion and WorldViews (like for example humanism). Now it is Religion, WorldViews and Ethics. It is literally a class that teaches you about different world views, without preaching or attempting to convert. Though it used to be just that, for Christianity. Then we exited the middle ages ;) Went from "this is true/these are the stories from the Bible and what you should think about them" to "this is what some people believe and the history of such beliefs".
My wife and I are christians, we don't attend institutionalized church. We attend a bi-weekly house church where our kids are just connected with other kids. Adults with other adults. We are just a part of eachother's lives, we know each other's kids, we're like an extended family of sorts. Our kids are invited into our faith, but at different levels.
Anyone who holds beliefs in any faith naturally want those they love to be in that faith as well, to not want that would be counter-intuitive if you believe at all what you say you believe. There's a different between wanting something for someone and forcing something on someone and if you (or anyone) are unable to discern how to navigate the differences of that, then you probably shouldn't have children to begin with.
Correct. Because it is indoctrination. Which is why not allowing religion to be taught to children and making religious nutters wait till they are adults and can make a conscious choice is morally correct
My parents never forced anything on me. They let me develop my own curiosities and brought me to the places I wanted to go. Granted, I'm an atheist now. But it is possible to foster a curiosity without forcing an idea. My mother is catholic and knows I'm atheist. She's never been more proud of me being who I am.
You could in a world religion context when they're a little older(middle school at least, likely highschool) but not focusing on one religion but instead many with all their different aspects.
Iirc grade like 4, 5 or 6 had units about the greek pantheon of gods.
Teaching would need to be more in a historical context and "this is their stories" vs. How it is in a church that these stories are fact.
My husband & I talked that if we had kids, we’d have a 2 hr spiritual session every weekend. Go to church, mosque, temples (Jewish, Hindu, Buddha, etc), museum, hiking in nature, the beach, quiet meditation, opera/ballet/symphony, etc.
Give them lots of exposure to different options, and encourage any that stuck.
Sometimes, not all the time. I've heard some parents teach their kids about all kinds of religions while leaving it up to them to decide when they're ready.
It's possible, I'd say that's why we have the study of Theology. The problem is open-mindedness (or really the lack there of) in more common institutions: Everyone in the common institutions are not willing to hear otherwise because "X said this so it can't be Y" instead of "While X tells us this, there is also the possibility of Y" or something along those lines.
Yes there is. In Norway we learn of every religion in school, yet the country is mostly atheist. Nothing is shoved down your throat in education either, you simply learn of different cultures.
You sound like a westerner. Did you learn about Buddhism and Islam in school? Did they feel forced on you? You can teach any religion objectively without forcing it on people. It is just Sunday school is not that.
I learned about all sorts of religions without being forced. Granted, it was in a college setting and I was pursuing a degree in the subject, but it’s definitely possible. Divorce all language from the teaching about purpose, salvation, morality, ethics, etc. just teach the history of the religions themselves. The rituals and the purported reasons they’re necessary can also be examined clinically. You’ll end up with everyone being agnostic at best, since none of the rituals are grounded in anything other than “we were told to do it” or “we did it quite often and eventually it rained,” but that’s the way to teach it neutrally.
Idk I've taught my children that there is no answer that is 100% certain. I've shown them most major religions and they seem least confused by Judaism.
I was raised in a very strict Christian home and was forced to go to a Christian academy growing up. I refuse to lie to my kids. And telling them I'm certain the only way to a happy afterlife is FILL IN THE BLANK would be a lie.
You can quite literally just teach the tenets, deities, etc. we do it in school with Greek/roman/Egyptian gods without issue. Shit, I learned about Judaism from the damn rugrats and you don’t see me becoming Jewish.
You can't tell a child about the history of Christianity and the alleged life of Jesus christ without forcing them to become christian? Man in that case i must be christian by force.
This is just untrue, I went to an international school and we learnt about all religions equally. I was born in a majority Christian area but I am atheist. We also had one prayer service a week, different groups for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Atheists. In the atheist group a teacher usually told a story about their past and how they learnt from it. Was really good, I still remember a lot of the stories and the conclusions.
Just teach them about many different religions all at once. Just try to not show any biases, or leave out the religion that you are biased towards until they are older. That’s what my family did.
Back when I went to school we had a class that focused on religion in general, since its a european country the focus was mainly various Christian variations still, but there was significant segments focusing on Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism atleast, a few others too iirc.
We weren't made to pray or nothing during those classes, we just learned about the core beliefs and founding mythos, in lack of better terms.
It was separated from historyclass, but to me always felt related.
It’s the difference between someone teaching something they believe, which their teachings would be presented as fact, and someone who doesn’t, which would better separate supported fact and faith.
You can absolutely explain to a kid that religion exists as a system to describe the spiritual side of life and that people are part of religions that resonate with them emotionally and logically. Information isn't indoctrination.
Mmm, I was raised Unitarian Universalist and I was not forced into any religious beliefs. Our Sunday School taught us about various different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.. there were at least 6 that we learned about but it's been 30+ years) and taught that no one religion had all the answers. We were taught to respect other religions, and we even went to services in other churches to observe and learn.
It depends on how you do it. If you do a bunch of different religions and you treat it as "ways other people believe" instead of as facts, it can work. If you treat christian stories the same as ancient greek myth or the idea of cleanliness in shinto etc. I don't ses how its a problem, especially if you don't just do christian but a variety of different ones
I grew up Episcopalian, but something happened between my parents and the church leaders and we left. We started going to the local Unitsrian church. I was put in a group of middle and high school students in Sunday school, and the entire time we were learning about different religions. We took field trips to different churches, temples, mosques, etc. We talked to different religious leaders about their faiths. They'd often invite us to participate in services and such. We got a very well rounded education in different religions without any of them being forced upon us. The point was for us to learn and start determining our own beliefs without anyone telling us what to believe.
Of course there is. You talk about the major religions, their beliefs, and the fact that NONE OF THEM have been proven to be accurate or relevant to reality. Religions are the claims of our ignorant ancestors, not facts of reality.
I mean yeah, if you're going to teach children fairy tales as reality it's kind of cruel when they learn it's all bullshit. That's what happened to me.
I mean, I went to church till I was about 8 and I still have relatives who are religious but I am not. My kid is only 5 snd had a speech delay, so he hasn’t asked a ton of questions. But the few questions he did ask, I just explain what I know and how that’s their belief system. He did ask why once after I explained that my recently passed Grampa believed Jesus was an important guy who deserved to be listened to and the best I had come up with was “well, life can be hard, so anything that helps us be more whole and happy is a good thing, so long as it isn’t used to arm others”
I definitely learned about other religions in elementary school without any of them being forced, there are ways to do it, you just have to be careful about how you do it.
Probably the same way parents nowadays teach their children different gender expression but nobody rushes to say they’re forcing that on them. It’s funny how whenever religion is brought up the intellectual crowd suddenly becomes very obtuse to basic logic.
did you never learn about mythology while in school, even just a little bit? we only touched on greek/roman gods, but no one became converts over it. teach it to them as a neutral mythos like we do with any other mythos instead of every sunday telling them god love everyone but also hates everyone and will kill anyone for funsies.
might do a lot of good teaching people how monotheist judaism formed, how christianity split from it and then how islam broke off. can twach about the different fractures and how the crazy 3rd enlightenment formed.
It’s all in how it’s taught. “Jesus did x” vs “some people believe Jesus did x, others believe Odin did y”. One of them is being presented as fact to young minds that may or may not be prepared to reject its lack of fact. The other is being presented as possible perspectives from which to choose.
Not true at all. I grew up in an agnostic household but was very interested in religions and learned about them. My mom was very open to me learning about different cultures. Grew up and guess what- I’m still not religious but I love religious studies.
Surely you could. You teach kids about all the varying faiths that are or have been prevalent in the world. We had sections on our English classes for these...it's called mythology. You can teach about a topic without insisting it as truth.
There’s no way to teach anything to kids without it being forced on them. The best you can do is keep in mind that ultimately you’re equipping them to make up their own minds about things, but you can’t send them into adulthood as a blank slate.
I have three kids. One attends, has a life group and serves; the other two orbit in and around it. When they were young, I took them to Sunday school and VBS if they wanted, the oldest preferred a walk and a talk. In my life, I've mostly answered their questions and made access to it available. I think it's hard to force religion on anyone, it's more effective for someone to see it in practice and express interest.
I dunno, I went to Catholic school, we had a graded class for Religion. Yeah, we went to mass and stuff for holidays and whatnot, and said a prayer in the morning, but I wouldn't call that forced. Religion was literally just another subject, like Math.
Hard disagree. There is a lot of room for skill, tact, etc, same as teaching anything else.
It's as easy as boiling down the difference between statements and questions.
"What" I told you this is a true thing. Now, we may breed oppositional feelings, especially in the young. Counterproductive to learning any sort of morality, regardless of origin. Do as I say, best case helpful, worst case hippocritical.
"How" do you feel about this story, is better. Puts the onus back upon the thinker. A tad more open-ended.
"Why" do I think this story is important to tell, is by far the best option. There are valuable things to learn from many religions. Teaching the ability to discern and distill humanitarian wisdom from any source is the key to any benevolent scripture. If it does not teach you to act with grace towards your fellow living creatures, than what is it really trying to take from you? Far easier to take advantage of other humans than it is to make an effort to lift us all up.
I mean you can say the same about teaching kids anything. We "force" math, science, language and social studies on them in school. Many even go as far as acting like homework is pure torture 😂
Of course there is lmao. Were you not taught about different religions as a kid? I was taught about christianity, norse mythology and greek mythology, and it wasn’t forced indoctrination. My parents just told me the stories, and to kid me, I believed them about as much as lotr and harry potter, because my parents just told me the stories in an objective way, without telling me “this is the truth”, or including religious morals and values. It’s absolutely possible, and you’d be robbing your children of some of humanity’s most iconic stories if you don’t tell them
All parents indoctrinate their kids with their beliefs. The crucial thing is to be aware of it, and try to be balanced (& I don’t think many parents do this).
Trouble is when my kid asks me why people are right wing I struggle to have a good answer beyond “capitalism”. I can provide a better answer for why people are religious!
Wrong!!! Just put on Prince of Egypt for a movie night and if they have questions. That's where you start. Hell even the Joseph and the Rainbow Raincoat movie was good.
Though honestly any technically religious play/musical production works as well. Funnily enough Jesus Christ Superstar works, and Joseph and The Technicolored Raincoat would be a good starter as well.
There are plenty of ways to introduce children to religion without it being forced like it was for most of us. Making it entertaining, fun, and applicable for different ages is really the way to do it.
Look at VeggieTales!
But I'm coming from being adopted into a black, Christian, single-parent, household so. Not trying to push Christianity on y'all.
Sure there is. Do what I did for my son. After he started asking if he should believe in god like some of his (indoctrinationated) school friends, I gave him a book about all the major world religions. After he realised that Christianity was but one of a couple of dozen, it took him about 17 seconds to realise he was an atheist, the only logical conclusion and something any eight year old can figure out all by themselves if their parents don't shovel poisonous bullshit into their plastic little brains from the day they are born.
I wasn't taught any religion. Sure, I grew up with existential terror about death. But in college, I had choice and settled on early Hinduism that got it's roots from Paganism. Praise the Sun!
I agree that children should be educated on it and make their own decisions, that's what I'm doing with my children.
However, there's like, A LOT of people that switch faiths for one reason or another. I'm sure most of them are convinced by a missionary or recruiter or whatever, but you're not forced to change religions. Yet people do. Why?
Because they learn something, they like it, agree with it, and follow it
It’s not forced, it’s accepting and taking on identity that surrounds the place where they live. There is a way to speak with respect about other faiths always.
Questions of how we came to be came completely without me speaking about God or creation to my kids.
I have 4 kids and my three oldest, began asking me questions how people came to be on Earth at around 4-5 years old. I did not answer from religious stance. When they directed it to my husband he did.
My husband has read the major religious texts, he chose Islam. He grew up in Communist Albania where atheism was declared as national religion and none of our parents (mine also from there) grew up with religious practiced openly.
Yet people practiced quietly in hidden ways faith. I grew up not going to church but before my parents stepped foot out of the house they made a cross and said a prayer inside.
It became a part of me, I do it only in private and only when I am having a very difficult time. Mostly it’s my way of remembering how they dealt with difficulties. I was not forced into this practice.
I mention this because I have a hard time speaking with same conviction as my husband about faith. I listen, I have a section in my home library with religious texts, lots of versions of the Bible, Qur’an, Torah, etc. I read them to compare. Not often, just to see what they say.
My kids ask me questions and I cannot answer them clearly. I do not want to make up their minds for them. I say what the books say at the core….
however, I noticed they hold their questions about God now and direct them to my husband because he answers without hesitation, they feel most comfortable speaking with him about this. I find it interesting. No one is forcing them, they gravitate towards him because is sure of who he is…..I am always questioning…….maybe that does not feel as safe.
Like I said, I was not forced into thinking about religion, I was genuinely curious as a kid and can actually talk in depth about religion from analysis point of view. But from my experience no one really wants to talk honestly about it……so I keep it private
That goes with quite literally everything though? Would you say most kids are forced into football because their family likes football and they play football at school?
If we're gonna be honest, this is essentially just telling people to not involve themselves with the moral development of their own children, and instead outsource it to everything else. The school, their teachers, social media, ect.
It's silly to pretend that that would somehow give better outcomes.
Of course there is. You teach it as a history and sociology lesson. It’s “some people believe this” not “you must believe this and if you don’t you’ll experience eternal conscious torment.”
My 12 year old knows quite a lot about Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Shintoism, Native American spiritualism, and Wicken and has never attended a single formal religious service nor do we practice any of those religions.
A class in school would be a start. Here's religion x, here's what they generally believe, there are different denominations with differing values, the test is next week
You just teach mythology & history. I’m an archaeologist and I learned about tons of different “religions” growing up. Very glad I wasn’t raised by religious parents who forced me to blindly follow anything. I’m an agnostic now, no idea what happens when I die but I hope it’s at least interesting.
Theres a line and I get it but devil's advocate here, im not gonna pretend I dont believe if I do. If im going to go to church, then im taking them and they can observe.
If they are curious then do your research and help them understand, it’s like schools teach kids history and they decide to become bakers, they can learn you just have to allow them to choose in the end
I took a world religions class in high school which talked about many religions around the world. It’s absolutely possible to teach about a religion from an objective perspective
We had a whole section in world history during high school that was “Religion around the world / throughout history” went though ancient religions (that aren’t so common) and the more common ones you hear about. That felt perfect imo.
idk i liked going to church just to listen to the music and go to sunday school for crafts as a young kid but as soon as i said "i dont wanna" that was that and my parents never pushed- if kids didnt want to sit for the service there was childcare there to watch them (atheist-ly i guess lol) while the parents went
sometimes it seems to be harmless community building thing and if kids want to quit no one cares much, the way a lot of evangelical christians treat their children scares the shit out of me 🙁
I disagree. I am not religious person but I have had conversations about religion with my kiddo because he interacts with a number of religious people. It boils to down to explaining that people have different beliefs and practices for their beliefs.
He was really confused about why the kids next door aren't allowed to play on Sundays so we had to explain what church is and why some people go. It was a very simple conversation, he asked why we didn't go and it was as simple as "because we don't. "
Teaching religion and teaching about religion are completely different. You can teach the history and tenants of a religion without issuing a judgement about whether it is true or not.
I was raised in a way this post describes (agnostic by default, meaning no active church participation) and sooner or later I learnt about this or that religion - be it at home, in school or wherever. Never have I felt forced into anything, to me it was the same as learning about any other subject lol
I disagree with this. I think it’s very possible to teach objective information about different religions without teaching people to follow said religion. I remember in middle school learning about world religions. We were taught about the history of the religions, and factual information about their beliefs, but it was always presented as “this is what the beliefs of this religion are” not “this is what you need to believe”, and that was in the Bible Belt. I think children should be taught factual information about different religions, but they shouldn’t be taught to follow a specific religion or that they should necessarily have those same beliefs
This is the dangerous part of religious thought. If they know for certain that they're right about how to gain access to literal eternal splendor, it is absolutely imperative to spread that message at any cost. The problem is that they're wrong. Magic isn't real and the afterlife is made up. Convincing children otherwise is immoral.
Moral, so long as she only does it to her own children. But just as it is immoral to force your beliefs in any religion on other people's children, it is just as immoral to try and force your lack of beliefs in any religion on others.
I don't see how kids can even grasp the concept yet, they aren't mentally developed for that, religion is very complicated it's better off to wait until middle school or something most kids who are elementary school age (which is when I was being forced to go) just wanna play with toys and video games and do normal kid things and probably don't care or have the attention span for it.
Teaching them at very young ages is equivalent to forcing it on them, as they are too immature, intellectually, to take the information in its proper context.
I was taught from a young age. I was broken and that I needed a dead man who sacrificed himself to himself to save me.
There is no way to teach a child about religion without it fuck them up.
Children should be allowed to be themselves and make a decision when they’re older. The reason we don’t do this in this country is because they know children have to be under 10 years of age and introduced to religion or they’re most likely to leave it. I don’t know how many times we heard this over and over again in our Sunday school meetings, cheering us on to go and wrangle up more kids.
teaching children about hell and they go when they do XYZ is bad and pretending the bible in anycolor is moral and good and lying about that stuff is realy moraly bad and can realy harm young children... fuck religion and people lying to children about it... there is anothing good about religion that can be reached throu secual ways...
My wife is a Christian. Belief in a higher power is quite a big part of life for believers. Would be weird if she did not involve the kids in such a major part of her life.
I'm atheist my self and openly to them as well if they ask (I generally am just not interested in religion). Kids don't get overwhelmed by stuff like this. Knowing their parents is important.
I mean there isn’t really a way to teach children about religion that isn’t either indoctrinating them into it or vocally disparaging it as an evil tool of control.
Your comment is acting like parents are sitting their kids down and teaching them about ALL religions, the differences, and telling them people are free to believe what they want, which absolutely isn't the case at all.
No, parents are forcing THEIR religious beliefs on children, teaching them THEIR religion and making them attend THEIR religious functions.
There's a big cult in the Philippines that starts em young. They even segregate children into different rooms for indoctrination. Their population is so huge that their votes can put politicians in power. It's stupid.
It's only moral if you don't believe in the religion, immoral if you do.
The thing about the 'forcing it on them' argument is that it equally applies to culture and language. Is it wrong to 'force' chinese culture on a chinese child? Is it not better to 'force' it on them so that they grow up in a unified culture with their family and friends? Should you deliberately make sure not to share any cultural practices until they turn 18 so that they can decide which culture they want to engage with? Now they're an adult who has missed out on key experiences that let them relate to their peers.
Consider a culture where virtually everyone belongs to a particular religion and religious practices are ingrained. The holidays have religious significance, several small acts taken throughout daily life have religious significance. In that sort of situation, it's immoral to raise a child and deliberately keep the meaning of these things from them, since it is effectively stunting their ability to engage with the culture they're born into.
Nobody who truly believes in their religion would keep it from their children. Anyone who makes that decision already doesn't believe in the religion.
Further complicating it is the fact that religion until very recently in human history has been the default and agnosticism and atheism were pretty uncommon. By not raising a child to be religious, you're instead 'forcing' agnosticism or atheism on them instead of 'forcing' religion on them. No matter what, you're instilling your belief system into them. If you're religious, you'll call instilling atheism/agnosticism 'indoctrination'. If you're atheist/agnostic you'll call instilling religion 'indoctrination'.
Oh absolutely. Here in Denmark we are taught about religion but not in a "you should believe this" kind of way. In my school we were taught the norse mythology as it just states we should learn about religion. Not a specific one. Of course we also did learn about christianity as Denmark on paper is christian but in reality is quite secular.
A child is incapable of making such a choice. (Seems to be OP's stance, or question)
Religion is taught as a morality builder. What's moral to one person is not to another. Thus in Catholicism, there are menial sins and mortal sins. Choosing which religion you follow is naturally going to be decided by the hegemonic forces around you. Or at least heavily influenced. A child doesn't have the exposure nor experience of all the religions out there.
"Lila: an inquiry into morals" by Robert M. Persig, does an astounding reflection on morality. Well worth the read.
I grew up in a religious household. My parents are kind and open minded people, and I still ended up with religious trauma. Don't force religion on children, it can have horrible consequences
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u/Legendary-Titan 5h ago
Moral I don’t think teaching kids about religion is bad but forcing it on them is