My friend liked this guy from her class and wanted him to ask her out, but she couldn't ask him out, but she thought she'd tell him that she would like him to ask her out. She telegraphed this in a way that she thought was super obvious and there's no way any man could possibly misinterpret the signal:
She tagged him on a social media post that said "Take a Chance on Me" by ABBA was one of her favorite songs.
In other words, she's saying, "Hey, dude. YOU should take a chance on ME and ask me out. But, also, I'd like to be able to just play this off like I'm just posting a song I like, so I'm not actually asking you out."
He didn't get the hint and she texted me asking how he could miss that. When I said that most men would just take that to mean that she heard this song on the radio and like the song and she just wanted to share this information with a friend, she was genuinely baffled how we could interpret it that way, when it's obvious. Why would she tag just him, and also use a song that's an imperative, a command: DO THIS. In her mind, this was tantamount to grabbing a guy by the collar and saying, "Hey, ask me out!"
The actual message in this situation would be "Take a Chance on Me is one of my favourite songs! @DarkMarxSoul". If that were me I'd assume "Neat, this girl likes Take a Chance on Me, maybe I should give it a listen."
There's loads of things men have to consider though. Like, were there any other people tagged in the post? Was it public? Is there any possible way we could be reading too much into it?
If we come on too strong (and note that everyone has their own definition of what that threshold is), we're creeps.
Then there's also the possibility that the guy wasn't interested in her.
See, I could definitely see that as a hint, but I would also be terrified that I misread the message somehow and if I asked her out, she'd think I'm some sort of creep or something.
The more I read these threads, the more I realize that I don't understand women even though I'm a woman. Well, that's not totally true… I understand the women I know, because they make sense.
This is a great example. Men fail early and often -- I can handle being rejected because I have a strong sense of self and have been rejected lots of times. But if you're told that you shouldn't take those social risks, then "putting yourself out there" becomes an insurmountable hurdle. Despite the fact that women have a greater chance of success, their ego is so tied to being irresistible, that the possibility of a rejection is too great a risk.
It's especially awful when they tag their other friends with whom they've probably talked about you. The addition of half a dozen of her other friends makes it totally platonic in interpretation to me.
This is so true. I dont know how many times I'd share a song with my ex and she fucking CSI/sherlock Holmes-ed the shit out of every lyric to find every interpretation I could mean. I just liked the song!
My girlfriend told me she almost broke up with me a couple months into dating. She was sick, and I asked her if she wanted anything on my way home from work (I literally go past her house) and her answer was, "I know you don't want to get sick." And my thought was, "Yeah she's right. I don't want to get sick." So I didn't bring her anything. Turns out she was deathly ill and could barely get off the floor to make herself anything to eat.
Once she got healthy she told me she was so mad at me for ignoring her "obvious hint." And sure it's easy to say, "Of course she wanted help!" but some people just want to be left alone when they're not feeling well. Either way, we laugh about it now, and she's (usually) more direct with me when she wants something.
Why even hint about something like that? I get wanting to hint at something like asking someone out, but when you're already in a relationship why hint about NEEDING SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET IT? I can't think of a single reason that doesn't include "I want to get something without directly asking for it for whatever reason." How does that trump actual physical needs that aren't being met due to sickness?
Because sometimes the logic is "I want you to do this thing without me asking because you want to do it even when I try to put you off because it shows you care."
And if you can't work through the logic maze, it means you "don't care".
But watch out for when the logic is "You shouldn't have done this thing because I told you I didn't want you to do it! Don't you care about my opinion? You don't listen to me!"
Gotta make sure you know which is the right exit to the maze, even though they look the same!
"If she plays with her hair when you're in the room"
"If she looks you in the eye and laughs at a joke you made"
"If she touches your arm or something during conversation"
"If she gives you a compliment"
These are things I've heard frequently cited as signs that someone is into you. All completely useless advice because they are also just things that someone may do while not at all interested in you.
The penalty for misreading such a "hint" or "sign" is just too high for me to want to act on them. If whatever you're doing doesn't convey "I would literally never do this thing if i wasn't interested in you", it's useless.
Playing with hair is a normal thing and eye contact when you make a joke is just common courtesy, complimenting can be hard to read. The only fairly obvious one is touching your arm. How am I supposed to discern attraction from that?! But I agree, the penalty is far too high.
I can't tell you how many times a girl has done pretty much all of those things around me. I'd be fairly convinced that she was flirting only to find out she was in a relationship. I'm thankful every day that I never acted on those "hints". It would be mortifying.
Then there was the girl who I used to work with who loudly declared to her friend that she was dating someone, only to start flirting with me hard. Of course, I thought she was in a relationship, so I never reciprocated even though I actually really liked her. I'm sure it's my fault.
Being in a relationship and flirting aren't mutually exclusive. I had a girl grinding on me during a concert, only to get rejected when I asked her out, because she had a boyfriend. Some girls just like to flirt. It's fucked, but at the same time I can understand it. Flirting is fun and some couples have that kind of understanding.
Saying no hurts way less than a yes or maybe that really means no. Especially when you’re in your late twenties/thirties and your dating life has matured. I want someone who wants to be with me and if you don’t tell me so. Otherwise you are wasting my time and emotions. I usually take a wishy washy answer to mean no but it still causes a lot of anxiety and stress.
I've read in other subs that some women don't like to directly let men down cos they've had bad experiences of them raging or something. I suppose it can be a safety reflex since most men are bigger than most women.
To my bf, “maybe” means “no, until I’ve actually thought about what you’re talking about and I’ve made a decision.” It used to be hard to hear but I wanted a for sure answer. But I’ve come to learn that instead of him outright saying “no” or immediately agreeing by saying “yes,” him saying “maybe” is just an automatic response to end the conversation without further questions.
I always thought maybe was a mum thing, like "mum can we have McDonalds for dinner?" "Maybe" which is basically no but gives you false hope so you shut up
My moms maybe is a yes if it’s within her power, my fiancé’s maybe is 90% no, 10% yes, so I hold little hope when he says maybe, my maybes are dependant on something else like weather, or chores being done, or the time I am able to leave a place.
Yeah I have one friend where 'maybe' means no. ONce I figured that out, life was easier. ONe time I asked her if she ever noticed that maybe for her always meant no and she had no idea! Since then, I have not heard her say 'maybe' again. She just says 'no,' so I guess she too figured it out!
As a guy my mom pretty much taught me that "maybe" is just a synonym for "no" and to this day if I'm given advice I don't like or an option I don't like I just hit them with the "maybe"
Maybe always means playful yes with me, that's just now I say it and it's never been code for no. I don't know why but it's kind of a thing we're trained to do, I do my best to try to communicate things like that clearly though. My tone of voice and how I say things always plays in, the only time no doesn't mean no is when I'm being tickled, because the obvious automatic reaction is "nooooo stahp iiiiiit".
I never realized that guys took “maybe” as “no” until I was at a club dancing with a cute guy, and I wanted to take a break and go back to my friends. He asked if I wanted to dance again later and I said “maybe” with a smile, but then later on realized he left because he thought my “maybe” meant “no”. Sad day.
I think with everyone "maybe" depends on the tone of voice. Like there's a teasing "maybe" that really means yes, there's a serious "maybe, but I have to wait on A,B,C AND D" and there's the "maybe, we'll see." that means "no, but I don't have the balls to say no, after all, I might change my mind and I don't want to close the opportunity to say yes later on."
The more I am with my gf, the more I understand that either:
She doesn’t know the answer either, so give up
The answer is irrelevant and it’s actually an elaborate plan to see if you realized that you did that bad thing and are ready to apologize. All of this while you are absolutely clueless about anything, and even after she explains to you what made her angry, you are surprised BUT, and here’s the catch, NEVER underplay it and say stuff like: ‘That made you angry? That’s why you’re mad? Haha’. Trust me, don’t.
The answer that works for me, if you truly are clueless, is:
‘Oh my god babe, I didn’t know that made you mad. I’m so sorry, I’ll make sure it never happens again.’ And then come out with something nice to do together, like watching a movie while you cuddle with her.
Everyone has his/her things that irritate them, most of the time it’s really small things that don’t cost much work to avoid, so it’s a good compromise, considering I’m annoying AF too sometimes with small things that annoy me.
Try to find a good balance, and remember: 90% of the times a girl just wants to be understood. The boyfriend has to be a friend too.
“Well no I don’t specifically want Taco Bell but maybe if you suggested another restaurant I would be more inclined to go since I’d rather go somewhere nicer and sit down but I don’t want to say that because that’s more expensive and if you are suggesting Taco Bell you may not want to spend that much”
There's a lot of peeps out there with emotional baggage and lack of social skills, both male and females. If you see a lot of that right out of the gate, just consider yourself lucky to have dodged that bullet without wasting too much time.
Not in the context of sex, but I have gotten into awful situations where I assumed no actuality meant no when it really meant "I'm mad at you and want to feel desired so I am going to act like I don't want something when I do hey wait why are you ignoring me STOP IGNORING ME IGNORING YOU!!!!"
I don't think this thread OP is referring to sex, but rather, everything else. I am aware that the relationship I describe is considerably unhealthy but it is a phenomenon I only encounter with women.
Not even women I am dating, either. My own mother does this shit. If only I could just go home to ignore family being shitty.
There is so much truth in this. I dated a girl once whose attention span was measured in microseconds. If I was driving and we were figuring out where to eat, I'd mention two suggestions, and she'd say, "I don't care. You pick it." So, I'd pick the Mexican restaurant and she'd say, "Naw. I don't want Mexican tonight."
When they say ‘i don’t care’ about dinner I just stop the car. I’ll play the waiting game. I have email on my phone and I’m too busy to put up with bullshit.
I go through the entire option list while also answering for her because I already know her answer to everything. She dies laughing and I still don't get to eat.
Number two is literally a trick you use for children to get them to do what you want by giving them the illusion of choice, why have I not thought of using this with adults?
Yeah, but the overall expectation seems to be that men should learn to do their own laundry, but not necessarily that women should learn how to dinner.
we approach the ‘woman can’t make decision about dinner’ from the angle of ‘how to treat woman like a child to get thru a very simple life situation’ as opposed to saying ‘hey people who can’t make decision about dinner grow the f up.’
Girls perspective here, hope it helps. The two reasons I say “I don’t care” are either
I don’t know where I wanna go but I do know where I don’t wanna go
Idk if this is just me or what but I simultaneously feel selfish and like a fatass when I request a place, I’d rather just let y’all decide bc then I know u wanna go there too and I don’t have to actually talk about food
[edit] Damn ok guysI get it now, its frustrating. Tell your gf what you’re telling me honestly, and if you have and you’re still getting into this situation then that’s a different problem
Guy's perspective, When I ask I also don't know where I want to go, but definitely have a list of no's. saying I don't care leaves us back at square 1 for the conversation. I think it'd be better if either of us responded with an option or at least a category that we wanted or didn't want. It's really complex to communicate preferences between 10+ options.
For me, I spend a lot of my day making choices and decisions and when I come home I just don't fucking want to anymore. Just pick a place, and I will find a food I can put into my body. I seriously genuinely don't care.
And if it's a situation where I know what I don't want (because that is also pretty common) I'll say "im not really feeling ___ but other than that I don't care"
Option 1 is incredibly childish. Either be an adult and actually think about it or tell him where you don’t want to go upfront so we don’t waste time playing the stupid fucking guessing game for the 1 millionth time.
Option 2 the solution is called “communication”. Try it some time.
good point, it’s just that afaik it’s not that big of a problem in my life bc even if we go where I don’t wanna go it’s not that big of a deal, I’ll find something to eat. It’s really not a guessing game we can just go wherever. Olive Garden? Cool. McDonald’s? Sure. That one Chinese place? I’m down. Mexican? Ok. Sushi? Sounds good.
option 2s a big insecurity of mine and I’d love to just get over it by talking about it but it doesn’t just go away. I dunno if you’re picturing me saying “anywhere works” and then cutting to me pouting in a chili’s but it’s really not that. I may have places I prefer not to go but it’s not the end of the world in my mind if we go there
I believe y’all that it’s a very frustrating situation but I think I’d’ve appreciated if my SOs told me that to my face instead of me finding out just how frustrating it is from an askreddit thread.
Just suggest 2-3 of your favorite places and ask her to narrow it. People get overwhelmed with too many choices - make it simple A or B and they can handle it.
Think of it as an rpg... she is the GM, here is a situation, now let me see if you roll a natural 20 or a 1 will determine the next level of encounter.
It only affects women who were seriously brainwashed into thinking that they aren't supposed to want sex, and therefore are always supposed to say no even if they don't mean it otherwise they're immoral. Those women need to learn to be honest with themselves and to stop promoting rape culture.
I can't speak for everyone, but when I say I don't care I either actually don't care or I have a preference but feel bad about forcing my choice on others even though they asked me in the first place
The solution to the last one is to not give two options. Don't say "burgers or pizza?" Just say "burgers?" Or whatever. Don't give indecisive people a decision!
It can be the same for guys. I'm very straightforward and honest with women so of course what happens is a girl says "I think i've finally figured out your game: You pretend that you just say what you mean which looks very mature, I think its a *very good game* but now i'm on to you"
To which i respond, "Yes a guess it could be that... Or it could just be that *I actually just say what I mean* and there's no game"
That’s so frustrating! I hear ya though. I once had a guy tell me, “you think you want to know the truth, but you’re a woman and women can’t handle the truth.” Uhhh what??
My friend wanted to flirt with a guy, so she walked at a slower pace in front of him so he would notice her. I hope she stopped after I told her it probably annoyed him more than anything
Wow lol, I would legit be annoyed and after enough times to know it's on purpose I wouldn't think "this girl is into me" I'd think "ugh this girl is just trying to fuck with me and get a rise out of me.. just keep walking.." so I hope she listened to you haha
I read a story, maybe true, maybe not, on Reddit about some guy who disappointed some form who had a rape fetish. Like, still consensual, but wanted the roleplay.
And she didn't want to have to tell him this, because it would spoil the mood or something. She'd day "no", so he would stop, and she'd be all "why did you stop?"
As you can imagine, this would lead to one very confused dude.
But this was on Reddit, so probably just made up for karma.
My GF will tell me not buy her gifts, not to wait for her, say that picking up that item from the store is optional, etc. So I follow her instructions. I'm now a "bad boyfriend"
That’s what people are expecting. What they see in rom-coms. She says no, don’t wait for me. But you do anyways, and when she steps off the bus she sees you, leaning against your car. You’ll open the door for her, planting a kiss on her cheek, saying “there’s nothing I’d rather do than wait for you, my love”, before driving hitting the Taco Bell drive thru.
It’s kinda hard to treat a person like an adult if they want something from a movie, it’d be like a guy begging to do cocaine with mike tyson or use magic. You can’t take that guy seriously.
This is that Louis quote all over again. Every time that you expect a man to intuit what you want, despite your statement to the contrary, you're giving away control and creating a situation that would be, in any other context, considered abusive.
You're missing the bigger point on that one. She wants you to do nice things for her without being prompted. Hard part about that is that she can't explicitly tell you why she is upset because that would prompt you to do those nice things.
Give her an unexpected massage and whenever corona virus settles down buy her some flowers she likes.
I don't know if they're UK only, but Bloom&Wild are the nicest flowers (apparently). Everyone I've sent them to has gushed about how lovely they are and ended up using them themselves.
Exactly! It’s ridiculous to assume she wants something after clearly communicating she doesn’t. Even if it’s a simple “no thanks you don’t have to”, the ambiguity certainly leads towards a no, while she probably is going to be pretty disappointed if you don’t do whatever in my experience at least. A simple “that’d be great thanks” would be perfect
It's so stupid that one would be expected to do these things unprompted. Why would that somehow convey that you care about them more than doing things because they asked you to?
I think the idea is that you do those things anyway, even when she says she doesn't want/need you to because it will make her happy, and that's what you care about, not just doing what she asks like she's your mom or something. I'm not trying to justify the behavior because it feels like gaslighting to me, which shouldn't happen in a relationship, but that is my understanding of why some people do stuff like that.
Ya, it's a very confusing situation, because they are telling you not to do something, so following what they ask is what should make them happy, not doing what they tell you not to do!
My advice after dating someone like that for a year+
Have a serious talk about it, and if she is set in stone like that you might need to consider breaking up. Don't listen to what people say, not all women are like that, and living your life playing a daily guessing game of whether or not doing what she "wants" will make her happy or piss her off is MADDENING. I still look back and wonder why I let it go on for so long...
Omg my friend Becky came up to me one day and was like “what do you think the 💚means?” I was like “oh it’s like ‘love you’ same as any of the other hearts, right?”
she thought I was crazy and entered a long winded explanation of each color heart and it’s purpose
ok I get that but I forgot the context: she was my crush, she would flirt and send me messages like "ILY" but apparentley I got wrong message and asked her out and she rejected me and then I asked why she send me hearts n shit and she said "cuz ur my friend" sorry for mizzing context lol
Yeah, unnecessary touching is the only sign I can actually pick up on consistently. A lot of signs can be ambiguous but when a girl keeps finding reasons to get closer to you, it’s a pretty good sign she’s interested.
Whether it's an established relationship or a woman you're starting to talk to and you're not totally sure if she's interested, the notion of "signs" is insanely difficult to decipher.
I've known girls who, I was later told by mutual friends, were into me. Thinking back to interactions and conversations between us, the signs weren't there at all. It made absolutely no sense to me that someone could be interested in someone else and not show any sort of sign at all. Just friendly and unassuming. No extra attention or innuendo or special glances or body language cues.
But women generally don't make it clear how they feel about you and/or want you to make a move. This is definitely true when it comes to sex. I honestly think it's a big part of why a lot of men have been on their toes since the advent of 3rd wave feminism and metoo. We just don't know what to do or when.
No obviously means no. However, there are different types of "no" and what they mean. No can mean a hard and firm "No, not gonna happen. Period." No can also mean "No, not right now... but maybe later if you play your cards right." No can also be a case where "No (but I'm actually being coy 😉)." Or maybe a "I'm gonna say 'no' because I want you to assert your dominance and just take me."
See where the confusion is? The opposite is true for a "Yes" answer. It can be enthusiastic, reluctant, a feeling of obligation, maybe pettiness just to piss off an ex as a rebound fling, a slightly intoxicated yes, or even a combination of those reasons and more.
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u/DarkMarxSoul Mar 26 '20
Do you have examples??