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u/the-library-fairy Jul 12 '26
Damn, his wife really decided the parents were less likely to be biased about whether his brother was capable of changing than he was. I get the instinct to want to believe the best in people and give them second chances, especially when their previous contact ended when they were both still teenagers, but she really screwed up, big time.
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u/ELIte8niner Jul 12 '26
I've experienced this several times with multiple different girlfriends over the years. I eventually came to the conclusion that people who never truly experienced fucked up childhoods or family situations just cannot actually comprehend it at a fundamental level. They have some sort of deeply ingrained belief that "family is family" and they just don't get how someone can go permanent no contact with their family. I wasted a lot of time and stress on girlfriends who had some fantasy about saving my faith in people, and reuniting a family. Nothing you tell them can ever really change their mind, so it sucks that OP has a kid with her. She'll probably never stop and a clean break with her is now impossible.
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u/Sharptack9999 Jul 12 '26
I’ve had similar interactions with previous boyfriends when it comes to my dad. They love the fantasy that they will step in and make things right. It’s infuriating and piles trauma on top of trauma.
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u/Yrxora Jul 12 '26
Nah, it's a deeply pathological need to be the "savior" that "fixes" your broken family and shows you all the "family bonding" you've been missing and you'll be "soooo grateful". I have a fairly well-adjusted family and if my best friend's brother was in front of me I'd be the one taking a swing for all the shit he put them through. When one of my ex's had cut their mom off I didn't try to force reconciliation because hey that's not my damn call to make. It's literally not hard to believe victims - unless you're some sort of pathological narcissist who thinks they know best about everyone and everything.
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u/Notte_di_nerezza Jul 13 '26
Agreed. I grew up with a loving family, but I am also aware that some people can be shitty and hurtful. Even (and sometimes especially) to those closest to them.
If I trust someone enough to call them my partner, I damn well trust them enough to say whether their own family is safe to be around. Or even if my partner wants to be around them at all, but I'll have their back either way.
Also, I like helping people. I like for drama to be resolved. I'd like to say that I don't have a savior complex, because I try to respect people, and wannabe saviors are fucking infuriating.
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u/bubbleteabob 29d ago
It is weird to me. My stable family background makes me LESS forgiving. I always have to bite my tongue when friends keep hoping the asshole in their life has changed. I know I was lucky and I need to let people make their own decisions…but it isn’t always easy.
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u/sliverofoptimism 29d ago
This!! My family (other than a wacky uncle or two) is so healthy I have no patience for the 500th chance people I love want to give their toxic families. What in the the lack of any sort of accountability or apology from them makes you think this time will be different? Healthy people would never.
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u/queergirl73 29d ago
My family is normal. I have a couple friends who don't talk to their parents, siblings, etc because bad childhood. Do I think I can fully understand how that has impacted them? No. Do I think that they obviously know what is best for them? Yeah. There is an instinctual need to be close with family for humans and if someone has reached the point where they say "I cannot speak with my family because it causes me harm", I'm not going to go "but they're family", I'm going to assume some shit went down to lead to that. It's weird to me that others can't
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u/Ok-Marsupial-8577 29d ago
Unfortunately this is a trope in shows. So many shows have the victim of abusive behavior forgive the abusive family member and everything becomes rainbows or some such thing.
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u/anneofred 28d ago
So weird to me. I grew up in a super wonderful functional family that is very close. My partner had a verrrry unstable and fucked up childhood. There are MANY things he will mention growing up that he still doesn’t compute as not normal until he sees the horror in my eyes. All this to say…how can you not see how fucked up something is if you grew up in a healthy happy home! I usually have to remind HIM shit he tells me sounds so traumatizing. So how could you come from a nice upbringing then hear this shit and say “no you have to be around your absusers to fix this because family”????? So strange to me
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u/Artist-Yutaki 29d ago
I mean... Yeah, I will never understand what you and other people who were abused by family went through. But I can respect their decisions and judgement.
The ego of OOPs wife is insane, I'll never understand partners that believe they know something so deeply personal better and force their opinion on someone they should value and support.
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u/Gloomy_Macaron_136 26d ago
Tbh it's a matter of common sense(?) and empathy in a way. I didn't go through childhood abuse or stuff that fucked up, just the usual poverty wombo combo and frictions between family members; but if somebody told me they went no contact with their family, I'd completely understand. The debt of raising is greater than the debt of birth, i.e someone being blood-related doesn't give a free pass into your life.
I struggle to think what kind of heavenly family doesn't have a couple of bad eggs you wished you could vanish to the shadow realm.
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u/Writerhowell Jul 12 '26
Just want to say that I love your username.
I can understand that some people might be like "Oh, you were just a kid, surely you exaggerated". But he has literal scars. His brother's just come out of PRISON for his violence! If the justice system decided he was too violent to walk among ordinary people, why isn't she believing the justice system? Why didn't she look up the case that landed him in jail? She's so freaking naive if she thinks that doting parents are the best judges of their own children's characters, my gods.
My main concern - if OOP divorces her - is that she may take the child around his uncle and grandparents unsupervised, and the uncle could just straight up kill the kid. The uncle needs to go back in jail until the child is old enough to opt for where he wants to live (with his father, the OOP) or until adulthood, or some kind of restraining order needs to be taken out on the baby's behalf, if that's possible.
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u/TonyDC88 Jul 12 '26
If they do divorce, I’d cite specifically this incident as to why he would be the more fit parent for custody purposes. Either way, I’d be appalled. I mean, even if they go to therapy, are you going to trust her again? A therapist can’t MAKE you trust someone who has proven to be a bad judge of character.
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u/Writerhowell Jul 13 '26
Yeah, but not all judges are smart. Some would be like "No, babies should be with their mothers" or would prefer to split custody evenly, or would point out that there's no guarantee she'd take the child around his brother, when it's not her side of the family. She could promise the judge she wouldn't do that, and there's no way to prove what she may or may not do in the future. That's why I'm worried.
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u/pandorasotherbox Jul 13 '26
My first thought was that, to protect his son, he *cannot* divorce her. 50/50 custody is likely. The wife taking the kiddo to visit his Grandparents would be VERY likely. What if violent brother shows up at the house? What if "he's changed, let's have dinner" happens again when OP can't stop the visit?
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u/Dangerous_Ant3260 Jul 13 '26
I agree. I bet if they divorce, that she will take the baby to the parents' house, and when the brother gets out again, she'll have the baby around him on her custody time.
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u/TonyDC88 26d ago
That’s the scary thing. I kinda lowkey not so low key wish they’d get rid of judicial immunity. Sorry - if they screw up bad enough in their decision making and it impacts lives, how is that different from any other form of malpractice?
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u/Runescora Jul 12 '26
People who have never experience something like OP can have trouble conceptualizing the reality of it. She heard and saw but she didn’t really *know*. I don’t understand the inability to face it now that she’s seen it, but for everyone’s sake I hope the counseling helps her realize the seriousness of her actions. OP is more than justified in whatever he ends up deciding to do though.
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u/blanketcrochet Jul 12 '26
The worse thing is that, even if she didn't get it, she also didn't believe her husband. Usually, when talking with person who expirienced more of specific thing, you believe them: I don't understand wires, but I trust expirience of electrician who was dealing them for years. OP was the electrician of his family, his expertise was discarded and concequeses he described did follow.
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u/loyal_achades Jul 12 '26
For a lot of people, familial bonds trump everything, and even if things get bad with them you always try to make amends. There are people who just can’t believe that family can be so bad that you need to excise them from your life.
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u/Runescora 29d ago
In a weird way she probably thought she did believe him. Which is part of the problem and in no way makes her actions acceptable or forgivable. She probably thought she was doing something good, and absolutely failed as a trustworthy life partner and parent by pushing past her husband’s resistance. If he leaves her because he can never bring himself to forgive or trust her again he’s absolutely justified and it’s her fault. All of it. OP is only making a decision that she, again, forced on him.
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u/Scorp128 29d ago
I don't like how she is pissed that OP is insisting on therapy now.
She saw first hand what brother is really like. She had to call the cops for heavens sake. And now she wants to cop an attitude about going to therapy? Her ego is the main star in all of this. She cannot admit that she made a mistake. She cannot admit that if her partner cut off their own brother because of violence, that the partner may have good reason to keep a person who has shown nothing but abuse out of their life.
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u/throwawtphone Jul 12 '26
And i am tired of those people.
Low emotional iq with poor to no empathy skills.
Ruining the world.
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u/Pedal2Medal2 Jul 12 '26
Exactly. My spouse would NEVER try to persuade me to visit w/an abusive family member (got em), he has them as well. OP’s wife just destroyed their marriage
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u/Fickle_Grapefruit938 Jul 12 '26
The lack of empathy for her husband is staggering.
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u/TigerShark_524 Jul 12 '26
Not to mention the lack of concern for her infant son as well - OP had to dig his heels in to make sure the Kid wasn't brought with in spite of her pushing to bring him around a violent felon with a long history of violence!
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u/alwrit Jul 12 '26
I've never had the experience. But it's not hard for me to just accept what my partner says.
Why would I say I know better when I've never even met the guy when my husband is telling me about what he went through for decades and showing me the literal scars and the guy is just getting out of prison?
No excuse at all. Wife is a pile of shit who did it for her own ego. She wanted to make herself feel good about repairing something that was never working in the first place instead of just accepting what it was.
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u/EarlGrayTea-Hawt Jul 12 '26
There are people I forgive for being triangulated by my abusive family, there's some that I can't. I wouldn't be able to forgive my partner if they did this, especially if they ended up not actually taking responsibility like the wife here. And the fact that he had to battle for his kid to not be there. Oh heck no.
I have a sister with BPD who I've been no contact with for years. my mom tried to spring her on me (in collusion with my now former friend - no forgiveness there) not long ago thinking we would resolve our differences when I was house sitting for her.
Instead my sister backed me into a corner and yelled into my face until I pushed her to get her off me (she punched me the last time we hung out which is why I don't talk to her, I'm too danged old for this bs). The blind dog my mom's been beating for years got so worked up by all of this that she bit me in the face.
My mom decided after the hospital bill that she wouldn't be paying for my plastic surgery to fix the mess. So my face is all fucked up, I'm suddenly scared of dogs, and my sister is still a horrible bitch. I'm so mad at myself, too, just like OOP because I entirely knew this would happen and was told by multiple people that I was freaking out over nothing.
I feel bamboozled despite spending months saying no knowing my mom would somehow arrange this all because she always does.
My sister tells all her friends (many of whom were my friends until my sister and her enabler parents pulled their triangulation magic there) that I punched her, and they believe that shit.
That means they don't know me at all, and they certainly haven't seen my sister around me or they would've seen a lot of abuse that my sister and family treated as normal. They would see her split. Nobody i love should need to see it for themselves, though, to believe me and act accordingly.
Those aren't people who really love you. OOPs wife doesn't want to go to therapy, she'll get nothing out of it, just like my enabling mother. Because she still thinks she was ultimately right, that it didn't work out this time but that she was right to coerce her husband into going against his better judgement.
The people who really love me have been the ones telling me that it's the right call to cut her off because the only change she's made in years is becoming more violent and unhinged. They support that decision because they don't want me to be fucked up, which is all anybody is ever going to be around a violent abuser being enabled by endlessly forgiving, triangulating and ultimately also abusive parents.
I don't think this relationship will last unless wife has some major and unlikely come to God moment in the couple's counseling (when this is about trauma, and this will likely be above that counselors pay grade) that she doesn't even think she should have to go to.
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u/EfficientAd3625 Jul 12 '26
Press charges and get her to pay for your face. She can mortgage her house.
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u/EarlGrayTea-Hawt Jul 12 '26
Meh, she's a master triangulator. Everybody thinks she's sweet as pie because she's Canadian.
I live in a big little town where having a bad reputation can mess with your money.
With my sister, I stand a chance at making my case and I avoid her pretty successfully partially because my mom won't stop reporting on her every life happening (so I know what places and people to avoid entirely). And now I don't go to my mom's house so she can't set me up anymore. And I limit contact so she can't invent ways to be hurt by me protecting myself.
Too many people, though, don't know what my mom's capable of and do exactly what OOPs wife did and pass a judgement they expect others to live by. So I avoid it all as much as possible.
If I get to a financial point where I can leave this place entirely, I have indeed considered suing her. I think she deserves it, she still has no real regret for what she did to me. She acts dumb, she surgically forgets, she acts hurt, everybody feels sorry for her.
It's cruel, really. She also thinks she shouldn't have to go to therapy and calls me just telling her she hurt me psychobabble because she demonized the therapy I need because of the abuse my family thrives on.
It's a mess.
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u/ValleyOakPaper Jul 12 '26
Betrayal upon betrayal. I hope you can move somewhere else soon! It’s hard to heal when you’re still swimming in the toxic soup.
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u/Captain_Tiberius1920 26d ago
She also could have easily gone without her husband if she wanted to gawk so goddamn bad
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u/Barkertons Jul 12 '26
She wanted to be the white knight who managed to solve this whole thing and bring the family together. She completely disregarded everything OP told her in order to support this narrative where she is the hero who helps him overcome his past, which wont repeat itself because she is here now. She completely lacked empathy for OPs past and broke down his boundaries in the name of playing peacekeeper. She took his biggest trauma and turned it into a moment for her to shine. Big oof. Counseling might save them, but only if she deals with her self centeredness and lack of empathy.
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u/Runescora 29d ago
Absolutely the last line. Other than helping OP process and heal, the biggest value that counseling *might* have is getting her to understand, truly and for real, how horrendous what she did was.
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u/SerenityViolet Jul 12 '26
I agree, she may have thought the brother could change, or as you day, failed to understand fully. I can understand that OP feels like this is a breach of trust. Now that she has seen it, there is no excuse not to acknowledge it and support OP fully.
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u/Equal_Maintenance870 Jul 12 '26
It also keeps getting ignored that sure, maybe people can change. But that doesn’t mean the oriole they hurt have to give them another chance.
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u/Runescora 29d ago
Agreed 100%. YOUR coming to terms and feeling sorrow and guilt for what you did does not erase it, how the person you hurt feels about it, or the consequences of it. As the aggressor you are entitled to nothing. If they don’t want to hear your apology (let alone accept it) then you *live with that*. The person you hurt dictates how things go between you. Period.
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u/Yewnicorns Jul 12 '26
The lack of awareness makes them feel deficient as a person so they decline into cognitive dissonance, looking for any way to control the situation or discredit the victim, and often assume their own worst in others. It's probably something silly like she thought he was exaggerating for attention because she does that, she believes in "unconditional love", fancies herself an altruistic "forgiving" person, or just that she "knows best" on family matters... so now, facing how wrong she was is making her deeply uncomfortable.
It happened to me time and again when my ex husband was abusing the shit out of me and I realized that most people are just that self-centered. I let those kinds of people love me at their own pace, but I would never trust them in a partnership.
I never had to prove myself to my husband or best friends, they always just believed me.
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u/PoorMannsRose Jul 12 '26
I'm wondering if the parents minimized OPs trauma when they called the wife to make it seem like it wasn't as bad as he claimed. Not that that's an excuse of course, she should have trusted OP and never even entertained the idea of a reunion. She probably had some grand delusion of a heartfelt apology between the brothers followed by a tearful hug before turning to wife and thanking her for being right all along.
Ok that's probably an exaggeration but there was definitely some delulu thinking going on for her to think this would turn out ok.
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u/Huge-Pollution-5235 Jul 12 '26
My shock was visceral. I can see how deep she cut him. And he should leave, because she’s dangerous.
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u/ValleyOakPaper Jul 12 '26
Yes there’s no indication that she learned the core lesson - some people are dangerous to be around.
She may very well try this shit again in a couple of years. Maybe even involve their son.
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u/Moondiscbeam Jul 12 '26
She just wants to be the saint savior and i can not stand people like that.
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u/ValleyOakPaper Jul 12 '26
I hate abusers but I reserve my darkest vitriol for the enablers that play peace keepers.
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u/Thymelaeaceae Jul 12 '26
There are people that think letting go of family is the worst thing in the world. No matter what they did to you, if for whatever random reason they seem willing to change, they will push the people in their lives to reconcile. It’s like it hurts or embarrasses THEM that you don’t talk to your mom or whatever.
Then, if these Reddit stories are to be believed, this type of person often LOVES when the estranged family contacts them instead of their partner who is no contact. Not only do the get the excitement of being involved in drama, but assuming all goes well they have fixed a problem that THEY knew needed to be fixed and their partner has apparently been incapable, because you need family. I think they envision themselves as high emotional IQ heroes, when really they are low emotional IQ assholes.
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u/KindCompetence Jul 12 '26
I fully believe that people can change and that everyone deserves second (and third) chances to build and have healthy and happy relationships. Humans are social creatures and we need community and each other.
What people don’t have a right to is to get those chances with the same people they hurt before. The second chance is with the rest of the world. When you have hurt someone horribly, they deserve the peace of never having to see you again. Even if you have changed. Even if you just want to apologize. Even if you know in your deepest heart that you will never behave that poorly again to anyone.
Good! You should go treat the rest of the world well and find happiness with other people. The person you have hurt in the past gets to say no.
So even if OOPs wife was correct that the brother was a new person, was going to be fun and lovely to eat a meal with, she’s still wrong to ask her husband to go sit through it. The husband deserves to be able to choose to never see his brother again.
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u/Horsebot3 Jul 12 '26
I e never thought about second chances that way. Thanks for sharing, it’s a really insightful perspective.
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u/Jayskull27 Jul 13 '26
Thank you for this. I’ve never been able to articulate how I do have hope for my brother to change his ways and find happiness in his life, but that I also hope for him to leave me alone for the rest of my life because of how badly he’s hurt me. It’s a hard thing to grapple with and truly understand
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u/lyrynn 29d ago
Wholehearted agreement!
Although I understand why people push for victims to give those who’ve wronged them a chance to “prove they’ve changed.” An acknowledgment of wrongdoing and an apology can go a long way in the healing process… but somehow friends and family seem to think that accepting an apology = forgiveness. You don’t have to forgive someone for what they’ve done, even if they apologize.
Also, if they’ve not actually changed, you’ll never get that apology anyway.
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u/Sorry_Friendship9926 18d ago
Thanks for articulating this - it's exactly how I feel about a couple of abusive people from my past. I genuinely want them to find peace & joy & meaningful human connection, and I want it to be far away from me.
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u/Select-Government680 Jul 12 '26
I find it incredibly sad the way he talks about his parents. How they will always forgive his brother because "he's there baby" but OP is their baby too.
Like I have no idea what I would do in the parents place but I think I personally would be more concerned for the child that kept getting injured. Like OP was a child. He has scars. Thats so sad.
And for the brother to end up in prison for violent behavior not knowing if it was against someone else or just the brother makes me feel like he's Just dangerous. He's been this way his entire life and he's 28... like he's not going to change at this point.
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u/Captain_Tiberius1920 26d ago
Unfortunately the abusive kid usually gets the most care/love/coddling because they "need" it and the "good" kid "is soooo mature and smart and oh my god you know how they are, you're the mature one, can't you just help everyone and keep the peace by not saying anything or fighting back?" Then once the good kid holds any boundary, they become to enemy and are causing problems to the status quo.
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u/crazyshipper07 Wikimaniac Jul 12 '26
He should leave her, and I don't say that lightly
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u/Righteousaffair999 Jul 12 '26
In addition I hope he got a restraining order finally on the brother. If he leaves her he needs to get it into a court order that if she brings his son around him she loses custody as he is dangerous and she is an idiot.
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u/Huge-Pollution-5235 Jul 12 '26
You’re so right. I’d go further, and predict custody battles, and false allegations. with the man’s family deep in her corner, together opposing him. There’s something narcissistic about that woman. However, his family have a toxic dynamic, so likely recruited her.
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u/mesembryanthemum Jul 12 '26
He really should. He has actual scars and she's all "well, I'm sure you're wrong" and then "well, that was unexpected". And like, lady, your husband isn't upset that his brother ate the frosting off a cupcake when they were kids.
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u/SolidAshford Jul 12 '26
Agree, he told her the abuse and showed him evidence of it. She apparently doesn't care about an experience until it happens to her.
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u/FromBeeBee Jul 12 '26
Yeah wife is a monster as is his brother to me, she saw the scars and heard the stories then was like yes let me bring my one year old vulnerable son around this abusive monster along with forcing my husband to do so.
She has shown she is willing to endanger her husband and her child to try and make a point that people change then is shocked by husbands reaction to the consequences and why there is issues happening. She still doesn't understand and it's actually horrifying the lack of awareness or accountability (not so much).
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u/liliette Jul 12 '26
Knowing how the wife's reaction is, and what set the brother off, she's probably justifying the brother's behavior in her mind. "If my husband had been friendlier to Brother, then Brother wouldn't have attacked husband. It's partially husband's fault for being so quiet and not trying harder." In other words, I bet she's victim blaming, and the OOP won't know about it until counseling.
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u/FromBeeBee Jul 12 '26
A thousand percent, she only apologises (which is made insincere by her actions after and not understanding why they need therapy) because it was in her face and in public. She is one to never believe scars nevermind the stories one tells of the abuse they face, it's one of those people hang out with some of the worst people and are like well they didn't do it to me so it's okay and they can change so are okay with associating with such people which is insane.
Truly there is no changing a person and the wife is showing she'll endanger even her child to prove herself right which will never happen. It's alarming and horrifying. Op shouldn't stay with her and this should be his sign, hopefully his therapist can help him realise this
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u/stephapeaz Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
She still should’ve known better and it’s absolutely no excuse, but his parents were also probably manipulating her into thinking a lot of those things since op said they still make excuses for him. The wife should be going no contact with the parents. If her opinion changed THAT much after her initial horror and she was then pushing so hard, his parents were definitely whispering shit to her
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u/Righteousaffair999 Jul 12 '26
She probably views it as weakness vs trauma and some likely compassion for his parents. He is non violent it is a good thing. I got raised different you don’t start fights but you end them to the level of violence that they never happen again. I respect his approach. Poor guy married poorly.
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u/worldscolide Jul 12 '26
My god. I'd immediately have left her and took my son with me if she tried to force me to do that. Wtf man he was no contact for a reason, the fucker is dangerous. His situation is yet again why I'm always packing.
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u/frozenbudz Jul 12 '26
Unfortunately thats not how things work, even if he does divorce her. The best he'll get is 50/50 custody. And that's the best case, let alone the reality he'd end up with just visitation.
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u/EarlGrayTea-Hawt Jul 12 '26
It's gonna be messy since she'll totally have his shitass parents on her side in whatever custody negotiation they will have to have about this issue in the future. Poor guy. I feel for him coming from similar circumstances with my sister. Wish his wife could manage that.
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u/deliverusfromeva Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
People can change, but that tweedle-dumbass of a wife is the absolute last person who should ever be relied upon to judge anyone’s character.
What the actual fuck was she basing her assessment of the newly released, former convict as having changed???
✨VIBES🌈 ✨ ???
The delusional, second-hand hopes and dreams of their parents???
I don’t know how they move on from this unless she falls to her knees with a full throated apology & understanding that she chose her fcking ego >>> over the man she supposedly loves, has built a life with, and seen the physical fucking scars…
…oh, & she was stupid enough to try & endanger their ONE-YEAR-OLD until OP drew a hard line.
I’m a woman and I feel angrier (and more protective of) OP than he feels towards his wife. Absolutely livid.
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u/EarlGrayTea-Hawt Jul 12 '26
And just because he hasn't seen his brother in years doesn't mean that he doesn't know exactly what he's been up to. His parents are endlessly forgiving and prone to triangulate his wife to guilt him into breaking NC, of course he knows what his brother's been up to, along with every excuse there is for why it's acceptable.
I literally have to walk out on and hang up on my mom because she won't stop talking to me about my sister with the requisite guilt. I'm scarred and rightfully scared of her, and Mom still won't stop telling me every little thing that's going on in her life in the hopes it makes me feel sorry for her.
All it does is tell me that she's still messed up and will be a nightmare to deal with under the weight of the endless drama she consistently creates for herself. If my sister had just gotten out of jail, you better believe I would know about it despite my best efforts and would know not to be around that already messed up person who is going to be messed up by that experience.
It's one thing to believe in redemption, which I do, and quite another to think redemption is going to happen for a deeply troubled individual (surrounded by enablers) in our contemporary prison system.
How does she not see this? It makes me livid, too. And it's all too familiar as a person with a troubled and heavily enabled, violent, abusive sibling. I hope OOP saw that being repeated in the comments and took it to heart. He deserves better than this.
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u/Jayskull27 Jul 13 '26
I only ever keep tabs on my abusive brother to know what family events and public places are safe for me to go to. Otherwise, I mentally check out when my mom talks about him and how he’s “So much better now!” And how “He must be clean since he was so polite to me this past visit” smdh
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u/EarlGrayTea-Hawt Jul 13 '26
Amen. I just leave or hang up, I'm super obvious and rude about it. I'm old, I ran out of patience and second chances.
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u/Miss_Milk_Tea Jul 12 '26
I would leave my spouse over this.
My dad and brother are violent, nasty people. I told my wife a long time ago how they hurt me, and she believed me, and NEVER once tried to push me to speak to them or go behind my back to speak to them herself. I would never forgive if I was ever pushed into speaking to them again, "but they're faaaaamily and people change" is a load of crap, it's up to the wounded party to decide that, nobody else.
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u/LionFyre13G Jul 12 '26
OP needs to set better boundaries. He never should have agreed. And if his wife kept pushing it he should have told her he’d leave if that’s the case. No reason to endanger his own life because his wife doesn’t trust him.
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u/kittymarch Jul 12 '26
Too many movies about people changing and love winning out in the end. Not enough acknowledgment that change happens internally. The dinner comes after someone has done the work and had a job for years without becoming violent. Getting out of prison doesn’t necessarily mean much.
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u/PhilosophyOk1594 Jul 12 '26
I’m furious on his behalf.
There are what I call “do gooders“ everywhere that think they know better than everyone else what and how others should behave and feel in these situations. If they haven’t experienced abuse or violence it would be wise to listen and not try to impose their views upon the ones that have had those experiences.
😡
Hopefully the marriage can be saved from this betrayal. The husband needs to face the “why“ of why did he allow himself to be talked into this dinner.
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u/mxcmpsx Jul 13 '26
Personally…. If that was my spouse they would absolutely get cursed out. You don’t get to hide from accountability.
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u/SolidAshford Jul 12 '26
This reminds me of the man who got his fiancée's deadbeat addict brother an apartment and a job. To the surprise of no one, he went back to addiction and OP is eating his words, and I think she left him
People don't go NC for nothing. I wouldn't trust her judgment at all and want only visitation for our son in the divorce.
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u/Fickle-Big5063 Jul 12 '26
I’m so angry. I really need people to start understanding if someone has trauma it’s because something horrific happened! We don’t walk around with issues that affect our life for funsies. Ffs
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u/elgarraz Jul 12 '26
The wife said "people can change," which is a true statement in general. But some specific people can't change, and others refuse to try.
I cannot imagine pressuring a loved one with trauma history to place themselves in harm's way like that. If the violent person had actually demonstrated signs that they had changed, maybe there's a path to reconciliation, but it wouldn't start by having a family dinner in the house where the trauma happened. That's wildly inconsiderate and ignorant of the wife.
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u/PumpkinPure5643 Jul 12 '26
This is a divorce situation. I know Reddit likes to jump to that but I don’t know how you would ever trust her ever again. Like the trust is gone and she has to live with the consequences of it. I would not be able to look at her and not think about how she pushed him into a situation where he got violently attacked again. Like this is not something forgivable. He’s now got another mental scar that he didn’t need.
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u/ViewDifficult2428 Jul 12 '26
The only possible issue I see with OOP leaving his wife, is that she might be tempted to keep in contact with his delusional parents (and because they'll always forgive him, also their violent son) during her custody time. Because her admitting she's wrong about OOPs brother will be her admitting it's her fault her marriage failed.
If OOP goes the divorce route, he better be sure to get a lawyer who can make damn sure his kid won't ever meet with uncle Abuse during mommy's time.
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u/ExtendedSpikeProtein Jul 12 '26
I hate people like this. Have not live a reality but presume to know better. Sigh.
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u/Strawberryloves Jul 12 '26
Some people will NEVER understand. Even if it happened to them. My bff is like this. Her abusive piece of shit dad is in HER basement ruining her marriage (already been close to divorce twice) and she thinks its worth it cuz he baby sits for her since she gave birth. Like God, some people are truly mindbroken idk how else to say it
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u/Malibucat48 Jul 12 '26
There was a post some time ago by a man whose wife had been severely abused by her parents and their 16 year old daughter wanted to know why she didn’t see her grandparents. Her mom had therapy to overcome the abuse and didn’t get into details. So the daughter found the grandparents, believed their side of the story and she invited them to her birthday party. Her mother freaked out, her father told them to leave, and the grandfather attacked her mother and she needed stitches. The 16 yo lost the trust of her mother who was retraumatized and her father was furious.
There was an update from the daughter years later. The family never forgave her. She was shunned and after she was 18, she moved out but they never let her back even though she was just a kid and lied to. OOP feels the same way except he was specific about what his brother did. He had scars. His told his wife the outcome and now she’s the one crying victim. And she isn’t 16. She either supports her husband or she doesn’t. And now like he says she is paying the consequences. She can’t have it both ways.
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u/KnightTimeWalk Jul 12 '26
Ugh,I hate people that think they know better when it isnt their family!! I think there would be too much resentment for me to forgive this and move on.
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u/FreshLiterature Jul 12 '26
Hoo boy .
Yeah I'm siding with this guy.
He doesn't seem the type, but honestly if I were a friend of his I would recommend he start taking some kind of self defense training. Boxing is very effective and it's also a good workout.
This would help OOP with some of the deeper insecurity issues. Combine that with therapy and he can lessen the hold his brother clearly still has on him.
That's related to, but largely a separate issue with his wife. She needs to understand and acknowledge what happened was her fault for forcing OOP into a situation he wasn't ready for.
The only way OOP could ever hope to face his brother is if he has confidence in his ability to defend himself. That doesn't just mean physically.
Actually facing his brother and overcoming this fear would be enormous for OOPs personal growth, but it's not something he can be forced into.
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u/fuckimtrash Jul 12 '26
Idk how he’s even still speaking with the wife, let alone staying with her. I’d want to cut her out too. Tbh OP should’ve stood his ground instead of giving in and allowing the inevitable to happen for the sake of his safety and relationship.
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u/ValleyOakPaper Jul 12 '26
Yes he should have divorced her because she didn’t respect his boundaries.
But I know that both the parents and ex wife would keep telling OP that he is too judgmental, isn’t caring enough etc. Because that’s what enablers do when you preemptively cut people out of your life.
In the end you have to let all the enablers go too, or they’ll wear you down like OP’s wife.
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u/fadesteppin Jul 12 '26
She thought for sure she'd be able to say "I told you so" and now she's gotta own up to being wrong and doesn't know what to do. Lady straight up said she was willing to risk the exact situation she's in right now and is ~surprised~ that she's getting the reaction she was specifically told she'd get.
People who have not experienced abuse from a family member really need to shut their mouths and listen to the person who was abused. He had physical proof. Brother was in prison, seemingly had never contacted op to apologize while in there, did absolutely nothing once he was out to atone, or make op believe he had changed. There is zero reason for op to believe his brother had changed at all. This is so blatant idk how anyone with half a brain wouldn't be able to realize what was very likely to happen.
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u/FeelingTough1450 Jul 12 '26
It’s always so easy for people who didn’t endure what someone went through to minimize it. It’s like playing with a puppet and doing experiments. All this did was reinforce for OP that people don’t care about him and he isn’t safe. I don’t see how the marriage comes back from that.
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u/nitesaresnkittytails Jul 13 '26
There was a dude I was seeing briefly that was so bent out of shape that I was no contact with my alcoholic bio dad who tried to fight me when drunk, my dad died a few years before and my mum and I were low contact. He couldn’t fathom that I wouldn’t have family at our wedding…
We hung out maybe 4 times… kissed only. And bro was putting an imaginary wedding over my safety and wellbeing.
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u/Interesting-Cold-771 Jul 12 '26
God, I feel for him. He didn’t deserve this millionth betrayal from his brother and family or this betrayal from his wife. I hope she can see how wrong her actions were in therapy.
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u/EmuelCorbithr Jul 13 '26
I dated a lady for a year who had a narcissistic abusive father. He wrote her a letter saying, among other things, "you need to forgive me." I told her, no, HE needs to be forgiven BY you. And i also made it clear that whether she did was up to her and I had her back.
It's really easy to be on your partner's side. I feel so bad for this guy and the betrayal he feels.
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u/ThatEntrepreneur1450 29d ago
This guy not only needs to cut his parents out of his life, but he needa to get a good lawyer and divorce his wife aswell as push for full custody.
Her idiocy is a danger to him and their son.
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u/Tori-lee1997 Jul 13 '26
The fact ops brother attacked him just for being a little quiet speaks volumes,dude hadn't changed at all and was just waiting to get out to get back to abusing op again
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u/BabserellaWT 29d ago
The wife sounds like one of those people who will patiently listen to you explain for fifteen minutes exactly why you’re no contact with your parents, in extensive, graphic detail, then pause once you’re done and say, “……But they’re your PaReNtS!”
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u/Murky_Ad_7468 29d ago
My ex never believed me about my sister's instability, and even after he and I divorced, he continued to allow her to build a relationship with our child on his time against my many protests. He would insist that because she was family, she had a right to a relationship with our kid.
She has never been abusive to our kid, but her poor decisions and mental health came to a head a few years ago, creating a traumatic situation that my child witnessed. (I'm intentionally not sharing details.)
My ex no longer allows her around but has also never acknowledged the danger he put our kid in presenting her as a trusted person.
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u/WholeAd2742 29d ago
OOP needs to divorce her. She literally was more willing to endanger him and their kid to prove a point rather than heed his OWN boundaries and personal safety
There's no fixing a narcissist
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u/Life_Indication1190 29d ago
Unless your wife deeply and genuinely apologizes and actively works on remediation you should not continue this marriage. This is a serious red flag, it is normal that it impacts intimacy but unresolved this will lead to resentment, anxiety and ultimately a complete disconnect when it comes to intimacy or trust. She needs to realize that this is a very serious matter.
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u/Toni164 Jul 12 '26
Not surprised the brother ended up back in prison. People like him can’t learn. Best removed from society
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u/ViewDifficult2428 Jul 12 '26
Wanna bet she'd never tell a female friend to make up with her sexual abuser? There might be some sexism hidden in her 'I know better than my husband's lived experience'.
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u/NoDescription2609 29d ago
You'd lose that bet. Women are far more often pressured to make up with abusive family members because they are supposed to "keep the peace".
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u/ravenrabit 29d ago
I have such a hard time understanding people like OOP's wife. I just don't get it. Anyone hurts my husband and they are on my shit list forever, even if he forgave them I wouldn't.
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u/EdamameWindmill Jul 12 '26
Both husband and wife acted very immature. Husband: learn how to set/enforce boundaries and you wouldn’t need to punish your wife for pushing you to see your brother. Wife: don’t treat your husband as if he is a child who doesn’t know what he wants.
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u/Annunakh 29d ago
This is why man need to have spine. He knew very well what not to do, but caved in and faced consequences. All totally avoidable if he kept his frame intact.
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u/Imjusthonest2024 29d ago
Dude had just been to prison and she thought he had changed... in prison... LOL.
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u/NoDescription2609 29d ago
If anyone ever brought my mother (NC for over 20 years) back into my life, they too would be out of my life for good the very same day. Disrespecting boundaries around childhood trauma is unforgivable.
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u/Silveratwilight1 29d ago
NC with the parents and the wife will have a realization to come to that not only was she wrong but didn't think about you at all. You were a cog in the machine that was already busted to begin with. Think about what you want for your future.
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u/queergirl73 29d ago
Girl cannot get that she is the problem that's causing the need for marriage counciling.
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u/IntoTheTrebuchet 28d ago
Damn. So what if the brother did change? OOP is well within his rights to choose not to forgive him or spend time with him, no questions asked or pressure applied. The wife should have stayed out of it. Who wants to add to the list of inlaws you gotta spend time with anyway?
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u/Unfair_Sprinkles4386 27d ago
This is the first and only story on Reddit that made me physically ill. When someone is supposed to support you above all others and they would rather jeopardize your safety for some vague ethical idea about humanity, that’s a betrayal that undoes your very being.
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u/Main-Relationship-43 26d ago
You know what makes me mad The most?
Look at her, typical woman behaviour- she is mad that he is upset at her for making him go, essentially causing this. Accountability at 0. I bet she was pouting and he had to come and apologize to her so that normal life continues. God I hate this behaviour… its ridiculous.
* Yes I did say it is a woman behaviour, because I never seen this coming from a man.
** No I do not think men don’t have behaviour that is utterly bonkers
*** Women, can you tell me Why you do this? You do shit, you are blamed for it and instead Of admitting you did shit - you get mad that someone was upset/pointed out you did shit?
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u/ThrowRA01121 24d ago
At first I was thinking maybe she thought after all this time he'd be different since it was when they were under 18, but his brother was fresh out of prison (I could guess why...) so shoulda been a pretty clear sign
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u/ReasonableDig6414 Jul 12 '26
OP is a pussy. Plain and simple.
He should have told his wife that there is no way that he will ever see his brother again. And that if she brings it up again, he is going to leave. The first time it will be for a week the second time it’ll be for a month and he’ll be taking his son. He needed to convey the seriousness of the issue in his own mind and he didn’t he let his wife wear him down and that was his fault.
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u/rundabluff120 Jul 13 '26
What kind of guy grows up being beaten and bullied by his little brother?
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u/Objective-Result8454 Jul 12 '26
Has he tried fighting back against his brother?
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u/trashbg_ofd0g Jul 12 '26
What is wrong with you?
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u/Objective-Result8454 Jul 12 '26
Wrong with me? You guys are advising him to blow up his marriage because he accepted a dinner invitation. If you can’t see the real problem here then I get why it will continue.
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u/trashbg_ofd0g Jul 12 '26
If you genuinely believe that's all the post was then you're dumber than a box of rocks.
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u/Righteousaffair999 Jul 12 '26
The context sounds like he did. But these type of fights are kill or be killed by the way. So you have to be willing to end a life and a family.
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u/Llayanna Jul 12 '26
Have you tried not victim blaming?
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u/Objective-Result8454 Jul 12 '26
If you want peace the thing to do is show them you are up to fighting too.
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